French rugby Updates : Le café du Rugby.

Tox56

Team appeals to the ref to go to the TMO and the decision goes against them! Never seen that before

.ak

What did racing appeal for anyway? Thought it was a harsh call

matthew8

.ak wrote: »

What did racing appeal for anyway? Thought it was a harsh call

A kick to the head by Tolofua after he went down. Crazy to go after the ref like that.

.ak

shamrock55 wrote: »

I can only see a metro win here

Can't call it. Racing giving away so many penalties.

matthew8

Another penalty for Racing. If they hold on it's fair to say this game was won by the boot of Sexton. They have not looked remotely like looking a try. I have never seen a team win a game that has threatened to score a try or even break the line so little.

thomond2006

Since the barrage matches were introduced, only 1 match in 8 has been won by the away team.

thomond2006

JS 7/7; 16-21

2 minutes left

matthew8

As good a goal kicking performance as you'll ever see.

thomond2006

Tekori nails Mike Phillips with a high tackle. Racing with a penalty to touch, they should close it out now.

yimrsg

Sexton did miss a drop goal though it was a shot to nothing as it was a penalty advantage.

thomond2006

Doussain's two relatively simple misses are the difference. Racing win it!

So the first semi-final is Toulon vs Racing. Montpellier will meet the winner of Clermont v Castres.

irishbucsfan

Good performance from Racing. Looking forward to the semi. Toulon will be tough though.

[Jackass]

Jesus Toulouse were bad. Really sloppy game, but the penalties being given away were something else. Neither looked a great side, I think Toulon will tank them. Sexton had a decent game.

Zzippy

Wow, massive win for Racing!

Larbre34

Fair play, right plan for the job. Definitely had a Celtic tinge to it!

vienne86

Well fiar play to Racing! Delighted for Sexton. But, God, Toulouse are a shadow of their former selves.

rockbeast

Mike phillips must be thinking that drinking session was a great one now:)

Buer

vienne86 wrote: »

Well fiar play to Racing! Delighted for Sexton. But, God, Toulouse are a shadow of their former selves.

Just don't have the players any longer. You look at that pack and it doesn't hold fear. Dusautoir is starting to get on now too.

yimrsg

Buer wrote: »

Just don't have the players any longer. You look at that pack and it doesn't hold fear. Dusautoir is starting to get on now too.

Nyanga, Picamoles, Tekori, Tolofua(bar the lineouts) are very good players. Had Toulouse had Chris Paterson at 10 they'd have cruised that game.

Buer

yimrsg wrote: »

Nyanga, Picamoles, Tekori, Tolofua(bar the lineouts) are very good players. Had Toulouse had Chris Paterson at 10 they'd have cruised that game.

They are good and, along with Dusautoir, the best of their pack. They aren't as good as Servat and Pelous were though and are really good players as opposed to really top players.

Guys like Baille and Camara wouldn't have made previous teams. Someone like Bouilhou who didn't have a huge career internationally but was the heartbeat of the pack.

Behind the scrum they hugely miss the direction JBE and Jauzion used give them.

They would have won by a single point if they'd a better kicker. That wouldn't be a great result against an unspectacular Racing side in front of 30k home supporters.

yimrsg

Buer wrote: »

They are good and, along with Dusautoir, the best of their pack. They aren't as good as Servat and Pelous were though and are really good players as opposed to really top players.

Guys like Baille and Camara wouldn't have made previous teams. Someone like Bouilhou who didn't have a huge career internationally but was the heartbeat of the pack.

Behind the scrum they hugely miss the direction JBE and Jauzion used give them.

They would have won by a single point if they'd a better kicker. That wouldn't be a great result against an unspectacular Racing side in front of 30k home supporters.

Yeah Servat and Pelous are very tough to replace, Boulihou too was a very useful squad player. That's a core of on field leaders they've never replaced and I don't think Dusautoir is a talkative captain rather one that leads by example so the pack can seem a bit aimless at times if they're not on top.

Another thing is that Noves hasn't got the balance of the side right IMO. They need a few more grafters in the side, a bit too many flair players not putting in a decent shift and front row in particular is a cause for concern and needs recruitment. A hard working prop like Gethin Jenkins would help massively.

rockbeast

Was that Noves' last game in charge or am I misinformed?

thomond2006

rockbeast wrote: »

Was that Noves' last game in charge or am I misinformed?

That's news to me. If it was then there would have been a huge fuss made.

On Toulouse, this has to be up there with their worst season in years. Murdered by Munster in Europe and the season in the professional era that they don't make the semi-finals in France.

rockbeast

thomond2006 wrote: »

That's news to me. If it was then there would have been a huge fuss made.

On Toulouse, this has to be up there with their worst season in years. Murdered by Munster in Europe and the season in the professional era that they don't make the semi-finals in France.

Yeah, one of lads said he announced he was departing earlier this year? Hope not.

Toulouse have been hurt with injuries this year and ageing/transitioning...Still could have won that, maybe should have. Don't think they'd live with Toulon though. Be a tough year or two but they'll be there or abouts next year I'd say.

Few good 'uns in coming up if Dusatoir, Poits and Gear stay on form to bring them through...

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

That's news to me. If it was then there would have been a huge fuss made.

On Toulouse, this has to be up there with their worst season in years. Murdered by Munster in Europe and the season in the professional era that they don't make the semi-finals in France.

First time since 1993. Has to be considered their worst season in a long time. I know they've failed to get out of their HEC pool on a few occasions but their pool was far tougher than it was this season and they were competitive or won the T14.

Swiwi.

Buer wrote: »

They are good and, along with Dusautoir, the best of their pack. They aren't as good as Servat and Pelous were though and are really good players as opposed to really top players.

Guys like Baille and Camara wouldn't have made previous teams. Someone like Bouilhou who didn't have a huge career internationally but was the heartbeat of the pack.

Behind the scrum they hugely miss the direction JBE and Jauzion used give them.

They would have won by a single point if they'd a better kicker. That wouldn't be a great result against an unspectacular Racing side in front of 30k home supporters.

Buer do you watch much of the Top 14? If so, how do you rate the quality? I caught some of the Toulouse v Racing match, and thought it seemed a fairly stodgy affair, Sexton's goalkicking excepted.

thomond2006

If you want to see good matches, never watch Racing. Bordeaux are my favourite team to watch, they play fantastic rugby.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

If you want to see good matches, never watch Racing. Bordeaux are my favourite team to watch, they play fantastic rugby.

Either way it's not a league you want to watch for excitement. But it is the highest standard of rugby at club level anywhere in the world. Although not last night, and probably not today either.

matthew8

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Either way it's not a league you want to watch for excitement. But it is the highest standard of rugby at club level anywhere in the world. Although not last night, and probably not today either.

Agreed. I think this year it has really passed by the Super XV in quality.

Swiwi.

thomond2006 wrote: »

If you want to see good matches, never watch Racing. Bordeaux are my favourite team to watch, they play fantastic rugby.

Will try and catch a Bordeaux game so!

Buer

Swiwi. wrote: »

Buer do you watch much of the Top 14? If so, how do you rate the quality? I caught some of the Toulouse v Racing match, and thought it seemed a fairly stodgy affair, Sexton's goalkicking excepted.

Not to the extent I used due to life getting in the way.

From the games I have seen this year, I'd have to say that, as a league, it is nowhere near the spectacle it was.

That's not to say the teams aren't still strong but the tide has turned from 6 years ago when we had Toulouse, Clermont and SF playing some entertaining stuff. Clermont have faded and, while Toulouse have some outstanding individual talent, they play exactly like that instead of a coherrent team. Jauzion is missed badly.

Toulon are top dogs now and, while capable of great rugby, their game plan is based on their juggernaut pack. Montpellier can be good to watch and, as thomond says, Bordeaux are entertaining but the overall way the game has gone is far from the days of Dominici, Bobo, Caucau, Jauzion and Heymans tearing it up.

I've an affection for Racing given their chief tactician but they're awful to watch generally. Last night was a game between probably the two worst sides in the playoffs.

With that said, they've a massive opportunity now. Labit and Travers beat Toulon last season and beat them well in this season's match in Paris. The game could not be further away from Toulon and, with the HEC just over, they won't have many fans there at all.

I wouldn't bet against a Montpellier vs Racing final.

thomond2006

One of the main reasons Toulon blew the double last year for me was they didn't rotate their squad over the three matches: HEC Final - Top14 SF - Top14 Final. By the Top14 final the same team had played in two tough matches and Castres who had a rest week looked more fresh. Toulon have a number of players who won't weaken them if started: Menini, Castro, Bruni, Michalak, Mermoz, David Smith etc. If you're going to have a big squad signed up then you may as well use it when it really matters!

Buer

I know it was mentioned last night but just to bring it up again, the reintroduction of Fritz after that blow to the head was nothing short of an embarrassment to Toulouse and Noves should be ashamed of himself. The guy was clearly not in any fit state to return to the field and Noves didn't even try to hide the fact that he was shouting down to the dressing room calling for him to get back on the field.

For a guy I've had a lot of time for over the years, Noves took a nose dive in my estimation last night. The actions of a man who is feeling the pressure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdNQQFm5tdo

Zzippy

Buer wrote: »

I know it was mentioned last night but just to bring it up again, the reintroduction of Fritz after that blow to the head was nothing short of an embarrassment to Toulouse and Noves should be ashamed of himself. The guy was clearly not in any fit state to return to the field and Noves didn't even try to hide the fact that he was shouting down to the dressing room calling for him to get back on the field.

For a guy I've had a lot of time for over the years, Noves took a nose dive in my estimation last night. The actions of a man who is feeling the pressure.

Jeez, I tuned in late and missed that bit. Saw Noves going down the tunnel to hurry him back out on the field alright - he should be ashamed of himself. So much for concussion protocols... :rolleyes:

sydthebeat

He came back on after that? ???? Jesus.

I've heard the irb are looking into it?

Buer

He came back on in the 34th minute and looked out of it. He had that startled "Where am I and what's going on?" look on his face when he rejoined the field. He only last a short spell and didn't come back out after half time. But even in that time he could easily be involved in a couple of jarring rucks and collisions.

Hopefully, the IRB do look into it.

I really don't understand what Noves was thinking. He had Gael Fickou on in his place; he's not exactly a bad replacement.

yimrsg

Toulouse had a 6/2 split on the bench and Noves probably didn't want to use one of his back replacements so early. Pretty shoddy from Noves and the medical team to allow it to happen.

thomond2006

Fritz was interviewed in the dugout by Canal+ in the second half (something I thought was a bit thoughtless considering what happened to Fritz) and he didn't look or sound right.

iroced

thomond2006 wrote: »

No Trinh-Duc to the consistent annoyance of many, he's been flying in an on form Montpellier team.

In fairness that's good news for us. He doesn't fit with PSA gameplan (if there's a gameplan...) anyway. He'll be fresher, more committed and motivated (probably still with a hope to feature for the WC) for Montpellier .

Swiwi. wrote: »

Buer do you watch much of the Top 14? If so, how do you rate the quality? I caught some of the Toulouse v Racing match, and thought it seemed a fairly stodgy affair, Sexton's goalkicking excepted.

Same questions were asked last year at that stage. Don't quite get it. You can't judge a league on just one game anyway, especially when the stake is that high.

That said, it is true that Toulouse are in a transitional period on one hand. But they're still there. With a better team management they'd have done better in both HCup and Top 14 (remember they beat Saracens twice for example). On the other hand, you just have to look at Racing's coaches to get the answer you are searching for. Castres played boring rugby and took their chance on an exceptionally favourable circumstances year for them last year with these 2 guys. This is no surprise to witness Racing boring (but winning) style this year. In fairness I find it a bit reminiscent of Munster style under Kidney. People were not complaining back then.

This is the evolution of rugby anyway. It's more and more physical and it's not anymore a "game of avoidance" like it was in the 80ies-early 90ies. The famous NZ-France game of the WC 99 that everyone seems to have in mnd when talking about spectacular rugby style, with Domici and Bernat-Salles "twirling" on the field was certainly the swansong of a (rugby) era.

Buer wrote: »

Not to the extent I used due to life getting in the way.

From the games I have seen this year, I'd have to say that, as a league, it is nowhere near the spectacle it was.

That's not to say the teams aren't still strong but the tide has turned from 6 years ago when we had Toulouse, Clermont and SF playing some entertaining stuff. Clermont have faded and, while Toulouse have some outstanding individual talent, they play exactly like that instead of a coherrent team. Jauzion is missed badly.

Toulon are top dogs now and, while capable of great rugby, their game plan is based on their juggernaut pack. Montpellier can be good to watch and, as thomond says, Bordeaux are entertaining but the overall way the game has gone is far from the days of Dominici, Bobo, Caucau, Jauzion and Heymans tearing it up.

I've an affection for Racing given their chief tactician but they're awful to watch generally. Last night was a game between probably the two worst sides in the playoffs.

With that said, they've a massive opportunity now. Labit and Travers beat Toulon last season and beat them well in this season's match in Paris. The game could not be further away from Toulon and, with the HEC just over, they won't have many fans there at all.

I wouldn't bet against a Montpellier vs Racing final.

I think it is a harsh statement. And I would ask you what does "was" mean. You mention 6 years but from the players you are referring to you could easily go back 15 years. And I'd even dare going back 20, 30 years !

To me you forget something very important. The league is getting very very close now. We've seen it this season. Anyone can beat anyone. And I don't think it is a levelling downwards. The small teams are very preofessionally prepared and can respond to the biggest squads for a game or at least the most part of it. They're making it difficult for them (the best example is Oyonnax this season, they almost beat everyone at home). In the period you are referring to, the league was very heterogeneous. The bottom table teams were torn apart when they visisted the bigger sides (they were getting 50, 60 up to 70 points). Granted that was more spectacular but it doesn't mean the spectacle in itself was better in my opinion. Also when such scores happen now people complain that the away side sent a B side. .

The media are making a huge hype around the Top 14 (a bit like the Premier League in soccer) because of the money involved but I find that the people's expectations are getting over the top. To me, the equation more money = more good players = more better squads = more specatcle is a very deceptive (and dangerous) shortcut.
To get more spectacle I think the Top 14 needs a revolution. And I'm not sure the Top 14 New Deal is going in that direction, though I appreciate that they're at least trying to make it better. I've been advocating here for years a Top 20 with 2 seeded groups of 10 teams with the top 4 playing 1/4f and so on (1/4 & 1/2 could even be return games) and bottom 2 or even bottom 4 playing some relegation play-off (there are many possibilities to make this quite exciting until the end). The main huge advantage I see is the important reduction of regular season games (from 26 to 18 !!!) which should allow teams to play more attacking rugby. No "rubbish" excuses too regarding european competitions, best example being Racing. I remember that this "total" attacking rugby style was Lièvremont ambition when he took on the French job but he had to stop it after a couple of years because he realised the players could not make it physically speaking. And that's what we've seen this whole year in the Top 14. The teams willing to play attacking rugby have been inconsistent and had to adapt to a more defensive style at some times, making the games pretty much entertainment-free. The best example I could give you is the team I follow the most, Montpellier .

thomond2006

Clermont:
15 Lee Byrne , 14 Sitiveni Sivivatu, 13 Aurelien Rougerie, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Naipolioni Nalaga, 10 Brock James, 9 Morgan Parra,
8 Damien Chouly, 7 Gerhard Vosloo, 6 Julien Bonnaire, 5 Nathan Hines, 4 Jamie Cudmore, 3 Davit Zirakashvili, 2 Benjamin Kayser, 1 Thomas Domingo

Replacements: 16 Ti'i Paulo, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Julien Pierre, 19 Fritz Lee, 20 Thierry Lacrampe, 21 Michael Delany, 22 Noa Nakaitaci, 23 Clement Ric.

Castres:
15 Brice Dulin, 14 Remy Grosso, 13 Romain Cabannes, 12 Remi Lamerat, 11 Max Evans , 10 Remi Tales, 9 Rory Kockott,
8 Antonie Claassen, 7 Yannick Caballero, 6 Piula Faasalele, 5 Rodrigo Capo Ortega, 4 Richie Gray, 3 Ramiro Herrera, 2 Mathieu Bonello , 1 Saimone Taumoepeau.

Replacements: 16 Brice Mach, 17 Yannick Forestier , 18 Christophe Samson, 19 Jan Bornman, 20 Cedric Garcia, 21 Daniel Kirkpatrick, 22 Seremaia Bai, 23 Mihaita Lazar.

3:30pm today!

CatFromHue

Sexton started 4 and came off the bench 1 in the HEC and from looking at statbunker they have him as starting 14 and coming off the bench 4 times in the top 14, not including last night I think, so his season total for Racing is 18+5 and will be at the most a 20+5 for them if they make the final.

For Leinster his appearances were:
12/13: 18
11/12: 15+1
10/11: 18+1
09/10: 15+2

He's played more but as expected not by a huge amount.

thomond2006

Cudmore tries to take out Kockott in the first minute with a late cheap shot. Missed by the officials, a definite yellow.

razorblunt

That Fritz incident is scandalous, I had a lot of time and respect for Nouves but that was needlessly ruthless. Surprised the ref let it happen also.

[Jackass]

Disgrace that Fritz came back on, he couldn't stand after the incident, was so out of it was fighting with the medics, hadn't a clue where he was and collapsed on his way off the pitch.... that's as serious a concussion as you'll see on a rugby pitch bar puking all over the place.

thomond2006

9-6 at half-time to Clermont. Castres are giving them a tough match so far.

thomond2006

Castres lead 9-12 with 30 minutes to go. Vosloo is then sinbinned for a penalty from the restart.

Buer

Castres go 12-9 in front and Clermont are looking very tired all of a sudden. The most recent penalty allowed the Castres player an age to try and force the turnover with nobody looking to clear him.

This is going to be a serious fight for Clermont....and Vosloo binned innocuously.

matthew8

Try Castres 17-9!

thomond2006

Try for Lamerat. Oh my.

Davei141

The end of Clermont!