French rugby Updates : Le café du Rugby.

Morf

Hagz wrote: »

Well Munster didn't let him go, they were just unable to match what he was being offered. In which case Leinster aren't allowed to exceed what Munster can offer are they.

Leinster could offer bonus payments! :P

Buer

.ak wrote: »

I've said it before I'll say it again, Lualala was absolutely wasted at Munster. He's having a stormer of a game. Distributing and running is fantastic. He's delivered racing ball to get them out of their 22 three times now, and the last time resulted in a try.

Leinster absolutely missed a trick there.

That last run out of the 22, I was watching him thinking, that couldn't be the same bloke. He showed more attacking incision in that run than he had done in his entire time in Limerick. Looked a lot quicker too.

.ak

Hagz wrote: »

Well Munster didn't let him go, they were just unable to match what he was being offered. In which case Leinster aren't allowed to exceed what Munster can offer are they.

Ah, I was under the impression Munster didn't offer him another contract.

nc6000

There he goes again with a nice break.

former legend

Laulala again!

In fairness he wouldn't be the first good centre to crash and burn at Munster.

.ak

Definitely backs up the theory that it was Munster (mannix) and not lualala that was the problem.

errlloyd

.ak wrote: »

Definitely backs up the theory that it was Munster (mannix) and not lualala that was the problem.

Jdv didn't work out and that was pre mannix

.ak

I was talking about Lualala though.

Still, if I was a back, I think Munster would be the last place I'd go. Not exactly known for their enterprising back play. I suppose having douggie there has probably attracted a few names.

Buer

Goosen still has a lot of settling in to do. I think they'll be resting Sexton after today but Goosen isn't in the same class at all yet. Racing lost their attacking shape entirely once Sexton left.

former legend

WTF was the Toulon guy doing touching the ball down after the missed penalty?

Swan Curry

WTF was Michalak doing kicking long afterwards?

jm08

former legend wrote: »

Laulala again!

In fairness he wouldn't be the first good centre to crash and burn at Munster.

In fairness, Lauala always had a great partnership with Jamie Roberts.

What other centre crashed and burned at Munster?

jm08

.ak wrote: »

Ah, I was under the impression Munster didn't offer him another contract.

Munster probably could have only offered him a 1 year contract as he was over 30.

Hagz

Perhaps Sam Tuitupou and Will Chambers?

thomond2006

Many would say JdV but I wouldn't really agree. I'm happy for Laulala if his teammates at Racing are able to feed off him, certainly at Munster it rarely happened.

Anyway that result was to be expected, Toulon were always up against it with that side. I caught the James O'Connor try in the pub, good score.

Hagz

I always thought JdV was a good signing. I'd say a lot of Munster fans would take him back in a heartbeat.

thomond2006

Hagz wrote: »

I always thought JdV was a good signing. I'd say a lot of Munster fans would take him back in a heartbeat.

Given what came after De Villiers left, then yes absolutely.

CatFromHue

.ak wrote: »

Definitely backs up the theory that it was Munster (mannix) and not lualala that was the problem.

I don't think you can say it was just the coach you have to include the players as well.

They never seemed to click or form an understanding and it looked like they were playing to a different game plan. Considering how often Lualala played for Munster (45 starts plus 6 from the bench out of a total of 61 games Munster played in his two seasons) I don't think he was Lualala was doing anything radical.

jm08

Hagz wrote: »

Perhaps Sam Tuitupou and Will Chambers?

Sam Tuituopou was probably not good enough for Munster. Will Chambers was coming along nicely. He was the one that made the telling linebreak in the 40+ phases against Northampton.

Some of the Rugby League guys came over from Australia and persuaded him to go back to rugby league.

Jean de Villiers had a difficult start but got it together at the end and was Munster's top try scorer that season.

jm08

Mannix (and James Coughlan) are doing fine with Pau. They beat Aurillac 41-3 today. Biarritz just about beat Aurillac 15-14 last week. Pau are now at the Top of the ProD2.

former legend

Hagz wrote: »

I always thought JdV was a good signing. I'd say a lot of Munster fans would take him back in a heartbeat.

It was a brilliant signing that didn't pan out. Tuitoupu and Laulala were good signings that didn't pan out. Unfortunate I suppose.

Edit: probably veering off topic pretty wildly.

jm08

former legend wrote: »

It was a brilliant signing that didn't pan out. Tuitoupu and Laulala were good signings that didn't pan out. Unfortunate I suppose.

I liked Casey, particularly when it all came together for him, but god, he could try some real hail mary offloads sometimes - usually when they were not necessary.

jm08

former legend wrote: »

It was a brilliant signing that didn't pan out. Tuitoupu and Laulala were good signings that didn't pan out. Unfortunate I suppose.

The coaches can take a lot of the blame when it doesn't pan out too well. For example, Rua Tipoki & Mafi were probably the best centre partnership in Europe in 2008 (coached by Tony McGahan). Two years later, Mafi & Sam Tuitoupu were an accident waiting to happen.

Buer

Hagz wrote: »

I always thought JdV was a good signing. I'd say a lot of Munster fans would take him back in a heartbeat.

Took a while to settle which was in part due to Munster having three guys and not knowing how to use them. Ended up being probably their best player for the last 4 or 5 months of the season. He's a class act.

I think though that JDV's time there also highlights why some might be reluctant to go there. Munster have a poor track record at using and developing centres. The number of centres they've gone through has been impressive.

When a few players come and go in a position, it's a coincidence and the side are just working on developing players. When the following foreign players have come and gone in the last 9 years, it's silly: Trevor Halstead, Gary Connolly, Save Tokula, Rua Tipoki, Lifemi Mafi, Will Chamberlain, Jean de Villiers, Casey Laulala and Sam Tuitupou.

Then another couple of blokes signed this summer. It's hardly going to entice a young prospect to sign when it seems centres don't develop much there.

If Munster could develop one top class inside centre, it would free things up so much for them in terms of their NIQ players.

Swan Curry

So how about that Top 14?

Buer

jm08 wrote: »

I liked Casey, particularly when it all came together for him, but god, he could try some real hail mary offloads sometimes - usually when they were not necessary.

Absolutely. Unnecessary waste of possession. However, watching him tonight makes me wonder if that was part of the plan to continually look for the offload.

He stepped through the defence on a few occasions tonight, looked around for support which was actually there if he wanted to try and find it but took contact and recycled quickly and effectively each time.

Buer

Swan Curry wrote: »

So how about that Top 14?

Shaping up to be as tight as last season. Will be a great league to follow again. La Rochelle look like they'll go down but will entertain us all doing it!

Hopefully someone from the mid-tier can break the top 6 this season. Fingers crossed for Bordeaux and Grenoble.

thomond2006

Bordeaux are surely destined to be a big club within the next few years. They can draw big crowds at Stade Chaban-Delmas and play some superb rugby. Their two main wingers are Talebula and Guitoune who are both try machines.

jm08

Buer wrote: »

Took a while to settle which was in part due to Munster having three guys and not knowing how to use them. Ended up being probably their best player for the last 4 or 5 months of the season. He's a class act.

I think though that JDV's time there also highlights why some might be reluctant to go there. Munster have a poor track record at using and developing centres. The number of centres they've gone through has been impressive.

When a few players come and go in a position, it's a coincidence and the side are just working on developing players. When the following foreign players have come and gone in the last 9 years, it's silly: Trevor Halstead, Gary Connolly, Save Tokula, Rua Tipoki, Lifemi Mafi, Will Chamberlain, Jean de Villiers, Casey Laulala and Sam Tuitupou.

Then another couple of blokes signed this summer. It's hardly going to entice a young prospect to sign when it seems centres don't develop much there.

If Munster could develop one top class inside centre, it would free things up so much for them in terms of their NIQ players.

JdeV himself said he had the wrong attitude when he came to Munster and he was shocked when he was put on the bench. He then sorted his head out.

Mike Mullins & Jason Holland were both very successful centres with Munster - I'd also rate Mafi as being successful (and he was only a kid when he came to Munster).

Munster were a bit unfortunate with injury - losing Barry Murphy & Rua is probably why we ended up with Save & Gary Connolly (injuries). Paul Warwick was a handy enough inside centre as well who probably would never have left Munster except he could only get 1 year contracts once he hit 30.

Sammy was just a stop gap centre when Rua got injured and Barry Murphy had to retire.

edit: Trevor Halstead more or less retired after his stint in Munster (he played 3 games for Natal in the Vodafone Cup).

CatFromHue

Mullins and Holland are a long time ago now though.

jm08

CatFromHue wrote: »

Mullins and Holland are a long time ago now though.

Sure, but just to point out that it is really only since 2010 (and not for the last 9 or 10 years) that there has been a problem with Munster centre partnerships. Munster also had Hendo & John Kelly as well.

Losing two players like Rua Tipoki and Barry Murphy's to injury was a cruel blow which is probably why Munster ended up with most of those mentioned like Sammy, Will Chambers & Save.

Buer

jm08 wrote: »

Sure, but just to point out that it is really only since 2010 (and not for the last 9 or 10 years) that there has been a problem with Munster centre partnerships. Munster also had Hendo & John Kelly as well.

Losing two players like Rua Tipoki and Barry Murphy's to injury was a cruel blow which is probably why Munster ended up with most of those mentioned like Sammy, Will Chambers & Save.

Everyone named bar Kelly and Murphy has been an import though. The point was about developing players and their game. A prospect isn't going to join if they feel their game is going to go nowhere. The guys who have worked out are the likes of JDV, Tipoki and Halstead who were all established class when they arrived. Even Tuitupou, who was a quality player, was extremely average.

I hope Smith and TB buck the trend but, right now, there's little in the way of suggesting they will. I'm excited to see what Brian Walsh does with them, though.

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

I was talking about Lualala though.

Still, if I was a back, I think Munster would be the last place I'd go. Not exactly known for their enterprising back play. I suppose having douggie there has probably attracted a few names.

I will be very intrigued to see how this season goes for Munster. They have pretty much expunged all foreign influence, and circled the wagons with a 100% home born & bred coaching panel, whom by this very fact, will be much adored by the fans (at least initially). However, if the go back to "traditional" Munster rugby, I don't think the results will follow, as rugby has moved on. Maybe I'm wrong, but my impression was that Penney was never really accepted by the Munster faithful, hence the theories that it was POC taking hold of the dressing room that resulted in the defeat of Quins for example. Interesting times ahead.

sydneybound

Here was me thinking this was a Top14 thread with all this Munster banter!

Recorded the Racing match last night and watched it quickly this morning. Toulon meant to target Sexton but I suppose that was to be expected. Still Racing are only the fourth team to beat Toulon this year according to the sky boys.

Bought sky sports solely for rugby & golf coverage and have been impressed with the Top 14 so far. Granted they haven't got everything right - I don't like the panel standing it's just a little looks awkward but overall very happy.

I bet BT are kicking themselves they only bought the Top 14 rights last year for only a single year. If they had the prem & Top 14 and put in a cheeky bid for the Pro 12 the latter two for little money they would have had a full house. I know its all ifs and buts but still! If sky paid £30 million for a four year Pro12 deal I wonder how much was the five year Top 14 deal? Can't have been too much more however I think they've a real good product on their hands and will do a fine job promoting it.

http://www.espn.co.uk/france-top-14-2013-14/rugby/story/222163.html

In all sky will be showing 14 live rugby matches next weekend, unbelievable really. The two rugby championship and Pro12 games of most note.

They are showing Montpellier V Castres on Friday night then Toulon V Bordeaux on Saturday night both decent games. Fingers & toes crossed Bordeaux will pull off a shock, they are destined to be a big French club.

Team of the week has got to be La Rochelle.

errlloyd

sydneybound wrote: »

Still Racing are only the fourth team to beat Toulon this year according to the sky boys.

Calendar year is a misleading stat. I think leinster have only lost twice (bar preseason) this calendar year.

Tox56

errlloyd wrote: »

Calendar year is a misleading stat. I think leinster have only lost twice (bar preseason) this calendar year.

Is it really that misleading? Leinster only lost 4 times in the league last season, in rugby the top teams really dont lose very often.

AbusesToilets

Thought Sexton looked pretty pissed and disgruntled in that match after he went off. Haven't been impressed with Racing's back play when I've watched them, don't seem to have much going for them outside of broken play runs by Laulala.

Buer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Thought Sexton looked pretty pissed and disgruntled in that match after he went off. Haven't been impressed with Racing's back play when I've watched them, don't seem to have much going for them outside of broken play runs by Laulala.

He was pissed as he was hit late a few times by Toulon, purposely which led to him going off hurt.

The performance was actually pretty enterprising from Racing. They lost all attacking shape when he went off but they were putting width on the ball very quickly before he departed and beating Toulon on the outside.

vienne86

Buer wrote: »

He was pissed as he was hit late a few times by Toulon, purposely which led to him going off hurt.

The performance was actually pretty enterprising from Racing. They lost all attacking shape when he went off but they were putting width on the ball very quickly before he departed and beating Toulon on the outside.

According to RTE this morning, Sexton is out for two months.

sydneybound

Watched that highlights show last night and the Grenoble V Bordeaux seems to have been a stormer. Grenoble played a lot of expansive stuff with Bordeaux running in a few tries of their own but not getting that close.

Grenoble are playing all their home matches in the larger stadium Stade des Alpes this year.

Buer

I would say Sexton is absolutely fuming. That's the second time a French team have broken his jaw by taking him out off the ball.

It probably won't happen but Burden should be looking at a couple of weeks for that late hit.

Sexton should be back for the autumn internationals but he'll be rusty.

From a Racing perspective, Goosen looked nowhere near prepared to take over as first choice in his 30 minutes the other night so this will be a blow to their aspirations.

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

I would say Sexton is absolutely fuming.

I'd imagine Lorenzetti is absolutely fuming. It can't have done much for Sexton's desire to remain in France for much longer.

Buer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd imagine Lorenzetti is absolutely fuming. It can't have done much for Sexton's desire to remain in France for much longer.

Good point. That may have well sealed the deal. Aside from being disgusted with the injury, the prospect of kicking his heels for 2 months will show him if he has really built a life over there.

thomond2006

That's bad news for Racing. I'm sure they were planning to rotate Sexton and Goosen, allowing Goosen to get his bearings slowly.

Racing's next fixtures before the ERCC kicks off:

Clermont (A)
Lyon (H)
Toulouse (H)
Grenoble (A)
Brive (H)
Stade Francais (A)

Buer

If they've real ambitions on winning the title, they should be targeting 4 wins from those games.

Goosen definitely needs more time to settle. He looked like he didn't know which way to turn at the weekend and was on a different wavelength to those around him. Not his fault but I'd say Racing were hoping to give him starts against Lyon as his full debut followed by Toulouse as a test.

.ak

Yeah, if they can strangle the life out of Lyon, Toulouse, Grenoble, and Brive they might be okay. 8 man rugby though.

mogwai81

sydneybound wrote: »

Watched that highlights show last night and the Grenoble V Bordeaux seems to have been a stormer. Grenoble played a lot of expansive stuff with Bordeaux running in a few tries of their own but not getting that close.

Grenoble are playing all their home matches in the larger stadium Stade des Alpes this year.

Any ideal how Chris Farrell is getting on at Grenoble?

phog

Simon Mannix's Pau won again on Saturday, Coughlan was a starter for Pau

gavin mortimer (@gavinmortimer7) tweeted at 8:36 AM on Mon, Sep 01, 2014:
Bad w/e to be an Irish coach in Pro 2. Eddie O'Sullivan's Biarritz got tonked 34-16 by Albi & Jerry Davidson's Aurillac thumped 41-3 by Pau

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

Simon Mannix's Pau won again on Saturday, Coughlan was a starter for Pau

Two handy opponents to start off with: Massy and Aurillac. The litmus test comes for them next week when they host Agen.

They will do very well to go up with Agen, Biarritz and Perpignan all in the league. ProD2 is a serious slog, 30 league matches and playoffs.

pickarooney

And seriously dirty.