Old Railway Stations

foggy_lad

why cant irish rail bulldoze these eyesores on the communities they are in? i am talking of Carlow Kildare Newbridge Sallins Athy and several other stations dotted around the country. these stations are impractical dirty rat infested and in many cases dangerous due to falling masonary slates etc, they also cost a small fortune to maintain every year.

could the wise auld codgers in irish rail dispense with saving up the rotting buildings of yesteryear and demolish them all and in their place build new modern warm bright comfortable stations like longford Kilkenny portarlington monasterevin etc etc that would not bleed the country dry from their maintenance costs every year.

DWCommuter

foggy_lad wrote: »

why cant irish rail bulldoze these eyesores on the communities they are in? i am talking of Carlow Kildare Newbridge Sallins Athy and several other stations dotted around the country. these stations are impractical dirty rat infested and in many cases dangerous due to falling masonary slates etc, they also cost a small fortune to maintain every year.

could the wise auld codgers in irish rail dispense with saving up the rotting buildings of yesteryear and demolish them all and in their place build new modern warm bright comfortable stations like longford Kilkenny portarlington monasterevin etc etc that would not bleed the country dry from their maintenance costs every year.

I believe some of them may be listed buildings and any building regardless of age can be rat infested. Although apart from Sallins all the others are actually in use.

Thinkingaboutit

I can't express how much I disagree with that. A well built Victorian station is a wonderful thing, far better visually than most modern, alienating rubbish, and perfectly acceptable for the passenger too. Several disused stations have been converted into private houses or to other uses.

foggy_lad

but surely in the national interest these eyesores and flea pits of a long forgotten age of steam could be raised to the ground and proper buildings more befitting a modern usefull railway could be built? saving irish taxpayers the cost of repairing these crumbling decaying hovels every year?

i was in Kildare today and just noticed the pointing on the brickwork which it seems has to be checked regularly as the bricks between the mortar are falling to pieces!

dowlingm

IE are "taking care" of those stations much like the Limerick-Foynes railway or the Mark 3s - in an Al Pacino sense rather than Julie Andrews.

My criticism of most Irish railway stations is the lack of development around many of them - there should be some retail potential especially at stations like Athenry where there is all day bidirectional service, not just a few services morning and evening. The local town councils should be taking a lead to partner with IE on building some retail adjoining the car parks to make the station zone more part of the urban fabric rather than something separate from it. The ones I always think of are banks, daycares, medium size grocery and drycleaners - the sort of places where if you have your car there already it means you can load up and go straight home.

Most places, BE's presence is nothing more than a signpost. IE should turn their bricks and mortar into a selling point, not just a place for IE staff to hide from their customers.

Transportuser09

dowlingm wrote: »

My criticism of most Irish railway stations is the lack of development around many of them - there should be some retail potential especially at stations like Athenry where there is all day bidirectional service, not just a few services morning and evening. The local town councils should be taking a lead to partner with IE on building some retail adjoining the car parks to make the station zone more part of the urban fabric rather than something separate from it. The ones I always think of are banks, daycares, medium size grocery and drycleaners - the sort of places where if you have your car there already it means you can load up and go straight home.

Exactly. Some towns have the main Bus stop in the same area as the train station, so a combined transport centre/retail area would make an excellent facility for a town. Great Victoria Street station in Belfast is a good example of what can be achieved, yes its a city but theres no reason it couldn't work in regional towns either.

GM071class

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Exactly. Some towns have the main Bus stop in the same area as the train station, so a combined transport centre/retail area would make an excellent facility for a town. Great Victoria Street station in Belfast is a good example of what can be achieved, yes its a city but theres no reason it couldn't work in regional towns either.

You can't be serious?
I don't think you can compare a large Bus & Rail station in a Capital City to a Pole with a Bus Éireann timetable printed on it, and a small REGIONAL railway station??

Also, Foggy Lad, Have you been in Longford Station Recently? They have just 'adjusted' the original station for modern passenger useage. Actually, in the very same way they did in Kildare to some extent.

This attitude of "if its old - knock it and start again" is the very 'Celtic Tiger' thinking that fooked up many towns!

Also look at what happened to Smithfield, When it was re-developed, They lost every bit of soul the area had.
These large open areas with 'mid-rise' housing/offices makes the place feel cold, and empty. It was one of the biggest FAILURES in terms of architectural re-developement I can think of.

"If its not broke, Don't fix it!"

foggy_lad

"If its not broke, Don't fix it!"

ok i am talking about making stations accessible and comfortable for passengers which very few stations offer now mostly because they are old dirty victorian stations which wont be done up because the walls "wont take a nail" and any messing around would probably lead to the buildings collapsing! they are broke but cant be fixed!

just because these old sheds and buildings have stood for over a hundred years does not mean they are any benefit to society except in a historical sense to trainspotters!

Alun

Good job they didn't think that way about St. Pancras.

foggy_lad

st pancras? is that a station in ireland:rolleyes:

BenShermin

foggy_lad wrote: »

st pancras? is that a station in ireland:rolleyes:

We have our own version, it's outside Boyles Sports on Westmoreland Street.

GM071class

foggy_lad wrote: »

ok i am talking about making stations accessible and comfortable for passengers which very few stations offer now mostly because they are old dirty victorian stations which wont be done up because the walls "wont take a nail" and any messing around would probably lead to the buildings collapsing! they are broke but cant be fixed!

just because these old sheds and buildings have stood for over a hundred years does not mean they are any benefit to society except in a historical sense to trainspotters!

I don't even know many 'trainspotters' who really care about the stations.

I think the Clue is in the word 'TRAINspotter' of what 'they' are interested in :rolleyes:

Also I'm not away of any case where a station is in such dis-repair as you describe. I know I've never had slates falling off a roof on my head.... Also I've seen loads of pictures stuck on the walls of railway stations, and no signs of structural cracks as a result:eek: !!!!

steamengine

Alun wrote: »

Good job they didn't think that way about St. Pancras.

+1......... or indeed, one of our own architectural masterpieces. Got to give CIE credit for looking after something !

Dublin Heuston

murphaph

steamengine wrote: »

+1......... or indeed, one of our own architectural masterpieces. Got to give CIE credit for something !

Dublin Heuston

CIE had nothing to do with building Heuston Station. It was the GSR I believe.

CIE were responsible for keeping it in such a bloody awful state for so many years though.

SeanW

BenShermin wrote: »

We have our own version, it's outside Boyles Sports on Westmoreland Street.

You mean Pearse Station?

What a fugly kip that hole is. Looks like a 100 year old farm shed. If there was any money spare at all I'd say replace the thing with a modern "signature piece" but of course:

1. It's a listed building
2. We're broke

*shivers*

dubhthach

murphaph wrote: »

CIE had nothing to do with building Heuston Station. It was the GSR I believe.

CIE were responsible for keeping it in such a bloody awful state for so many years though.

Built by the GS&WR (Great Southern and Western Railway). The GSR (Great Southern Railways) didn't come into existence until independence when all railways that weren't cross border were merged into it.

GSR == GS&WR, MGWR, CBSCR, DSER, W&T, WCR/SCR,TDLR,C&LR

CIE == GSR + DUTC (tram company)

foggy_lad

GM071class wrote: »

I don't even know many 'trainspotters' who really care about the stations.

I think the Clue is in the word 'TRAINspotter' of what 'they' are interested in :rolleyes:

Also I'm not away of any case where a station is in such dis-repair as you describe. I know I've never had slates falling off a roof on my head.... Also I've seen loads of pictures stuck on the walls of railway stations, and no signs of structural cracks as a result:eek: !!!!

the shop adjacent to Carlow station recently had part of the roof fall in and many of these really nasty stations are in such a state of disrepair they should be condemned on health and safety grounds.

the station at Kildare has nothing but crumblinb bricks with the only thing holding the whole building up being the granit in the doorways and windows! also the stairs and footbridges in many of these stations are just as dangerous! several disasters just waiting to happen just like malahide and the viaduct that engineers said was in excellent repair!

GM071class

foggy_lad wrote: »

the shop adjacent to Carlow station recently had part of the roof fall in and many of these really nasty stations are in such a state of disrepair they should be condemned on health and safety grounds.

Is that more the Shop's problem, as its a private enterprise operating near to the railway??

The Station Building in Carlow is grand, and the platforms are fine and level.

steamengine

murphaph wrote: »

CIE had nothing to do with building Heuston Station. It was the GSR I believe.

CIE were responsible for keeping it in such a bloody awful state for so many years though.

I am aware of who built it, I was referring to maintaining the original aspect, facade etc.

Calina

SeanW wrote: »

You mean Pearse Station?

What a fugly kip that hole is. Looks like a 100 year old farm shed. If there was any money spare at all I'd say replace the thing with a modern "signature piece" but of course:

1. It's a listed building
2. We're broke

*shivers*

I'm having some difficulty placing Pearse Station on Westmoreland Street as it's on Westland Row, I believe. However, fwiw, the following information may be relevant

Pearse Station is a lovely if somewhat dilapidated building. I like it. The only part of it that is listed however - as far as I am aware - is the rail bridge into it. Or at least, this used to be the case.

foggy_lad

GM071class wrote: »

Is that more the Shop's problem, as its a private enterprise operating near to the railway??

The Station Building in Carlow is grand, and the platforms are fine and level.

the shop is part of the railway building and owned by CIE/irish rail who are now trying to get someone else into it but no takers so far.

and the platforms are fine and level but there is no lifts and the stairs for the footbridge are not very level and become extremly slippery when wet! also there is no proper wheelchair access in carlow station

GM071class

foggy_lad wrote: »

the shop is part of the railway building and owned by CIE/irish rail who are now trying to get someone else into it but no takers so far.

and the platforms are fine and level but there is no lifts and the stairs for the footbridge are not very level and become extremly slippery when wet! also there is no proper wheelchair access in carlow station

I'd imagine that the lease holder of the premises should've made the structural 'issue's' aware to CIÉ.
Also if you think that new buildings cope well with weather, ice, and so on..

The Footbridge in Clonsilla Railway Station is from the 1800's and comes from the Middleton branch in Cork. During the 'Big Freeze' the footbridge's in Coolmine, and Castleknock were almost un-useable. They are of a modular, and modern contruction of Concrete & Steel.
Meanwhite I had no problem crossing the bridge in Clonsilla. It's made from Cast Iron, However the relief on the thread of each step is so great that grip is no problem at all.

But I suppose that should be knocked aswell????

foggy_lad

GM071class wrote: »

I'd imagine that the lease holder of the premises should've made the structural 'issue's' aware to CIÉ.
Also if you think that new buildings cope well with weather, ice, and so on..

The Footbridge in Clonsilla Railway Station is from the 1800's and comes from the Middleton branch in Cork. During the 'Big Freeze' the footbridge's in Coolmine, and Castleknock were almost un-useable. They are of a modular, and modern contruction of Concrete & Steel.
Meanwhite I had no problem crossing the bridge in Clonsilla. It's made from Cast Iron, However the relief on the thread of each step is so great that grip is no problem at all.

But I suppose that should be knocked aswell????

the roof caved in on top of her of course she made CIE aware of it!

you are comparing ony miserable looking footbridge to a whole railway system that needs fresh developement and new blood! sack all the auld managers and union people that would stifle proper progress and let a new irish rail get on with bringing the company into the 20th century!

if that includes using some of the old buildings by all means do, but do it properly not some half hearted lick of paint and broken down electric heater as seen in the waiting rooms of several stations but gut the whole buildings and start from the bare walls as the internal coving etc is as rotten as the management of the company at present!

Judgement Day

foggy_lad Carlow Station is clearly of no architectural merit and should be demolished - I seem to remember it featured in an article on important Irish architecture in Country Life some years back.

Judgement Day

Give me CIE architecture any day - Craughwell on the infamous WRC - mmm!!

Breezer

I think we should go for the minimalist style employed at Broombridge myself. Very de rigueur.

foggy_lad

Judgement Day wrote: »

foggy_lad Carlow Station is clearly of no architectural merit and should be demolished - I seem to remember it featured in an article on important Irish architecture in Country Life some years back.

that is a nice picture of something from some years back but the station and others just like it are nothing more than buildings that are stifling progress within a company that cant afford to sit dreaming of by gone days.

everyone wants the irish railways to prosper but i feel irish rail will cease to exist unless the fools that think all this architecture is more important than passenger comfort and safety get turfed out of the company and barred from any decision making on behalf of transport in ireland!

there is also the part that only a very small part of this building in carlow is now used by irish rail as even the seperate toilets were closed and the waiting rooms on both sides are miserable cold dreary places where one feels unsafe.

Judgement Day

foggy_lad wrote: »

that is a nice picture of something from some years back but the station and others just like it are nothing more than buildings that are stifling progress within a company that cant afford to sit dreaming of by gone days.

everyone wants the irish railways to prosper but i feel irish rail will cease to exist unless the fools that think all this architecture is more important than passenger comfort and safety get turfed out of the company and barred from any decision making on behalf of transport in ireland!

there is also the part that only a very small part of this building in carlow is now used by irish rail as even the seperate toilets were closed and the waiting rooms on both sides are miserable cold dreary places where one feels unsafe.

I think that your are labouring under a very false illusion if you think that the board or management of CIE/IE give one jot for railway architecture - they have demolished as much of it as possible over the last 60 years. I think that you have answered your own point where you state that only a small portion of the main building at Carlow is still in use - it's the same story nationwide. Perfectly sound buildings have been leased/sold, in many cases to company employees, and the unfortunate passengers have been shunted off into inferior accomodation. My own station at DG is a prime example.

Judgement Day

CIE/IEs 'scorched earth' station policy is seen at its most extreme on the South Wexford line - here is Bridgetown for your delectation.


Note lack of yellow lines and platform surface!

foggy_lad

Judgement Day wrote: »

I think that your are labouring under a very false illusion if you think that the board or management of CIE/IE give one jot for railway architecture - they have demolished as much of it as possible over the last 60 years. I think that you have answered your own point where you state that only a small portion of the main building at Carlow is still in use - it's the same story nationwide. Perfectly sound buildings have been leased/sold, in many cases to company employees, and the unfortunate passengers have been shunted off into inferior accomodation. My own station at DG is a prime example.

well to be honest the building in carlow is not being used at all apart from a couple of rooms for ticketing etc and passengers and the newly refurbished waiting room is not even wheelchair accessible as the door with no step into this area is kept permenantly padlocked! i dont think anyone has leased the rest of the building to let it rot i would say more that years ago there was the station master or other staff living in the quaint house in your picture but as time progressed the station went from having dozens of staff to having just a few and all that space is now not needed and will never be needed again!

it is probably wrong to try to compare a small provincial towns railway station in Ireland to larger stations elsewhere as the economics of the two countries/areas will be different leading to assumptions that bear no relation to reality

bridgtown is used maybe twice a day and is closing anyway as there really is not enough passengers to keep that line open and has not been enough for years! the days of every little backwater and crossroads having their own station or spur off the mainline is gone!

BenShermin

I agree with Foggy Lad, let's knock down all the old station buildings to make way for Rosslare Europort style stations, sure the Bus Éireann bus shelter outside the station will be a prefect health and safety compliant structure to house IÉ automatic ticket machines:rolleyes:.

When I was refering to our St. Pancras I meant the Stena Line bus stop on Westmoreland Street as a joke of how pathetic our international sail/rail link to the UK is in comparision to the Eurostar link. I didn't mean to cause confusion sorry.

foggy_lad

if many of the old and rotting disused buildings were cleared and the sites cleaned up there would be less scumbags attracted to the railway and the space would add to carparking making the train more attractive for people!

BenShermin

foggy_lad wrote: »

if many of the old and rotting disused buildings were cleared and the sites cleaned up there would be less scumbags attracted to the railway and the space would add to carparking making the train more attractive for people!

There's no disused buildings in Broombridge, nor was there in Cherry Orchard....

Judgement Day

foggy_lad wrote: »

if many of the old and rotting disused buildings were cleared and the sites cleaned up there would be less scumbags attracted to the railway and the space would add to carparking making the train more attractive for people!

In fact if the railway was cleared away in total, things would be nice and tidy, a lot of money would be saved and scumbags would die out as a species. :rolleyes:

Ste.phen

The OP is confusing old buildings with poorly maintained buildings, IMHO.

The first isn't a problem, the second very much is.

foggy_lad

the problem is that so many of the old buildings are poorly maintained and have been neglected for so long nothing can save them and irish rail wont do anything except patch the holes as they appear. look at sallins Newbridge kildare etc those buildings are beyond repair and need demolishing along with all the old sheds and associated works

DWCommuter

foggy_lad wrote: »

sack all the auld managers and union people that would stifle proper progress and let a new irish rail get on with bringing the company into the 20th century!

Now I really love that bit Foggy.;) But lets go the whole way and abolish Irish Rail/CIE for good. That would be a proper fresh start.

DWCommuter

foggy_lad wrote: »

the problem is that so many of the old buildings are poorly maintained and have been neglected for so long nothing can save them and irish rail wont do anything except patch the holes as they appear. look at sallins Newbridge kildare etc those buildings are beyond repair and need demolishing along with all the old sheds and associated works

Okay lets take Sallins as an example. In the boom years Sallins village exploded in terms of population and services. However from a restaurant point of view all the new ones were located on pokey old terrace buildings that looked off putting. As CIE fancied themselves as property developers, it just proves that they were only interested in the vast sites that delivered 100s of millions in cash (once it included either closing a railway or making sure the rail aspect was watered down to a level of uselessness) rather than exploring ways in which stations like Sallins could be used to provide a distictive service to the community and generate revenue, while still acting as a railway station.

That said CIE couldn't give a fiddlers fart about these buildings and would gladly demolish them once it meant cash. (rail related or not) The only example Ive seen lately that is worth something is the inclusion of the original Hazelhatch building in the revamped station. It looks nice inside and guarantees its survival.