Jack O'Connor has some neck...

alastair

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

At last something concrete. I take your word on that and wouldn't even try to defend it.

I'm in the CS myself and AFAIK we've kept our side of the bargain.

Well - what about a CS specific example: Do you think that the PMDS system, a reform supposed to ensure grade advancement on merit rather than seniority/putting in the time, has been rolled out as advertised? Because I'm having some difficulty in believeing that 99.9% of reviews result in a grade advancement on merit alone.

bigjohnny80

OP if you are not happy with the deal, why don't you leave the public sector and get a job which will pay you the rate which you are looking for?

bonzos

The state/taxpayer will never be able to get value for money or half decent productivity from its employees where you have a situation where a person cannot be fired no matter how useless or unfit they are for their job.....It means that the wasters are protected, the good employee have no incentive to push themselves and it breeds a culture of "what the point of pushing myself,ill get no thanks for it and other people here take the p1ss and nothing ever happens about it"

Silvio.Dante

alastair wrote: »

Well - what about a CS specific example: Do you think that the PMDS system, a reform supposed to ensure grade advancement on merit rather than seniority/putting in the time, has been rolled out as advertised? Because I'm having some difficulty in believeing that 99.9% of reviews result in a grade advancement on merit alone.

PMDS has been introduced and is used throughout the CS. I don't have figures on how many get the required grade in order to obtain their increment. If there's faults with the design of the system thats for management to sort out. We can't be blamed for implementing it in accordance with the Benchmarking agreement.

Silvio.Dante

bigjohnny80 wrote: »

OP if you are not happy with the deal, why don't you leave the public sector and get a job which will pay you the rate which you are looking for?

Why should I leave my chosen profession? Ridculous suggestion.

Spudmonkey

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Why should I leave my chosen profession? Ridculous suggestion.

Don't blame you. If I was in your position, I wouldn't either!

Nody

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Why should I leave my chosen profession? Ridculous suggestion.

Because the company you work for is not willing, or able, to pay the money you think you deserve. Hence you have two options; either accept the lower wage or seek another employer who agrees with your valuation of your work and will pay the salary you think you deserve. Same holds true in private and public service as a side note.

Silvio.Dante

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Don't blame you. If I was in your position, I wouldn't either!

...;)

bigjohnny80

OP what is your 'profession' then?

Silvio.Dante

bigjohnny80 wrote: »

OP what is your 'profession' then?

Civil Servant.

Drumpot

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Why should I leave my chosen profession? Ridculous suggestion.

Its either that or join the rest of us in the real world and face up to the fact that you WILL have to take further pain (but with Job security its a different kind of pain!) . . Not because its fair, but because we are all in this together and the rest of us don't get to pick and choose which pain we get to endure (which is a luxury being afforded to the public service). . .

If Benchmarking was done to improve services in the public services, it obviously didn't go far enough if there are 12 days of holidays that could still be given with no effect on Services. It also begs the question, how inefficient was it before these supposed reforms that we supposedly got with Benchmarking.? But hey, if you want to completely ignore this paragraph and ask me for Statistics (that in no way will be able to disprove above point), then please PM me with your solution to being able to be completely ignorant to the state of this country for your own self serving agenda. .

The only thing ridiculous is anybody in this country (public or private) who feels that they DESERVE to be protected by their employer from the harsh realities of Ireland 2010 . . Most of the people in this country benefited from the Celtic Tiger in some way and as such we all have to pay for our over exuberance in some way or another.

bigjohnny80

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Civil Servant.

'Civil Servant' is not a professional unless you are an accountant, solicitor etc who have sat professional exams.

So you a member of CPSU? So you are probably in an admin job?

So again why don't u leave and get a job which pays you what u feel you are entitled to?

alastair

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

PMDS has been introduced and is used throughout the CS. I don't have figures on how many get the required grade in order to obtain their increment. If there's faults with the design of the system thats for management to sort out. We can't be blamed for implementing it in accordance with the Benchmarking agreement.

I've given you the figure - 99.9% qualify for grade advancement. That's not hyperbole, but the actual figure. And the responsibility for oversight lies with the Sub-Committee of General Council on PMDS, which is comprised 50% of union representatives. Quite how you'd imagine that the outcomes of the PMDS represent any sort of meaningful reform escape me - it's been a farce to date.

Silvio.Dante

bigjohnny80 wrote: »

'Civil Servant' is not a professional unless you are an accountant, solicitor etc who have sat professional exams.

So you a member of CPSU? So you are probably in an admin job?

So again why don't u leave and get a job which pays you what u feel you are entitled to?

I'm a Clerical Officer by profession. Next..? :rolleyes:

murphaph

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I'm a Clerical Officer by profession. Next..? :rolleyes:

That's not a profession. That's like me saying I'm a bin man or a shopkeeper or a plumber by profession. None of these things are "professions". Perhaps you don't know the difference between a job and a profession? I'm not in a profession either, it's ok!

Silvio.Dante

Engaging in 'how big the other fella's langer is' doesn't do it for me I'm afraid boys. Being a Clerical Officer is my chosen profession. Like it or lump it dudes...

BTW there's a serious imbalance of female/male ratio... Why would I want to leave that scenario? To hell with the pay...:D

Drumpot

murphaph wrote: »

That's not a profession. That's like me saying I'm a bin man or a shopkeeper or a plumber by profession. None of these things are "professions". Perhaps you don't know the difference between a job and a profession? I'm not in a profession either, it's ok!

I wish I was a Shepard by Profession . .

Pushing the sheep in whatever direction I want (while convincing the sheep I'm really doing it for them!) .. Certainly the kind of profession that could lead to becoming the head of a major trade union . .

bigjohnny80

It is relevant because u said you wouldn't leave your chosen 'profession'

So now we've established you are a clerical officer. Plenty of jobs in the private sector which are similar so go get one.

At work today are we?

Silvio.Dante

Drumpot wrote: »

I wish I was a Shepard by Profession . .

Pushing the sheep in whatever direction I want (while convincing the sheep I'm really doing it for them!) .. Certainly the kind of profession that could lead to becoming the head of a major trade union . .

Post of the day...:D

Touché

Silvio.Dante

bigjohnny80 wrote: »

It is relevant because u said you wouldn't leave your chosen 'profession'

So now we've established you are a clerical officer. Plenty of jobs in the private sector which are similar so go get one.

At work today are we?

But if I've chosen it why leave when I and my colleagues can unite and fight the indescriminate cuts?

bigjohnny80

Of course u can unite and fight the cuts but accept the democratic will of the people as represented by the government

Drumpot

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Post of the day...:D

Touché

Just a shame so few of us will get to see my simple masterpiece . .

Silvio.Dante

bigjohnny80 wrote: »

Of course u can unite and fight the cuts but accept the democratic will of the people as represented by the government

Not when it's making me a patsy. I'm a doormat for no one.

Silvio.Dante

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I'm a doormat for no one.

Well, not yet, but what other job are you going to be able to get when you lose yours?

Silvio.Dante

I've no intention of losing my job but I appreciate your concern.

alastair

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

But if I've chosen it why leave when I and my colleagues can unite and fight the indescriminate cuts?

How exactly do you imagine the PS salary cuts are 'indiscriminate'? You can argue that they are inequitably spread amongst various grades within the PS, but they have been handed down on a discriminate basis - income has dropped, and the options on reducing outgoings are pretty much limited to reducing social services and welfare (check), and reducing the salary overhead (check). I think we can assuredly expect increased taxation come the next budget, but the sequence has been as follows - bumped across-the-board taxation, reduction in state expenditure - including PS salaries - in a clearly flagged and discriminate manner.

You seem to forget that the average PAYE worker (on an average lower salary than the PS) has had a combo of additional taxation, decimated pension funds, and in many cases, reduced take home pay, but remains a net tax contributor, whereas the average PS worker is down about 15% on salary and continues to be a net tax recipient on a higher than average salary, with preferential pension provison, when you compare sectors. Where do you think the discriminating cuts should come from in that circumstance?

I wear both hats btw - private and public sector incomes. I've no bone to pick with any sector - I just recognise the inevitability of outcomes, and balanceing of priorities needed, when you have to reduce state spending somewhere.

Kensington

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I've no intention of losing my job but I appreciate your concern.

I'm afraid you may not have a choice on that matter shortly, the way things are headed.

Drumpot

We have a fantastic opportunity for individuals looking to begin or continue a career as a Shepard. The position on offer is classed as "Wolf".

This role offers earning potential of up to and beyond €2500 per week depending upon how many sheep you can rally to your cause or get into your field.

Key responsibilities:
• Convincing the sheep that they are important to your cause, even if they will eventually end up paying for taking/following your guidance.
• Keep as many sheep within your field as possible by any means necessary. If it involves sacrificing other flocks of sheep, so be it . .
• Maximise confusion among sheep so you can control them.
• Prioritize time and plan which sheep are expendable

Candidates ideally should have:
• Experience in manipulation
• Fluent in ignorance, delusion and anything self serving
• Target driven approach - Get more sheep into your field , at least maintain the amount of sheep you have.
• A neat and professional appearance so the sheep lap up all the "food" (also defined as crap) you feed them.
• An ability to completely ignore any rational line of thought that conflicts with your goals.


Days/ Hours
• Whenever you get good chance to rant on the national airways or look for standing ovations off confused flocks that know not what they do . .

If you think you have what it takes please apply through "in the clouds" recruitment agency Or call

1800 - guaranteed-job-is-worth-nothing
1800 - guaranteed-pension-is-worth-nothing
1800 - Benchmarking-only-goes-oneway

For more information look on wedidnotcausethismess.ie , click on the sidebar entitled "with the birds" . .

danman

There's nothing more that can be said after that....!!!!!

Silvio.Dante

PMSL