Refuses to Contribute to Child for additional costs outside maintenance

sarahky

I am a single parent of a 4 year old (been 2 years since me & her father split). Me and the father have always had an amicable relationship. He lost his job last year and he continued to pay maintence we had mutally agreed when we first split. He returned to college in Sept 09 and reduced his payments to only cover the cost of the childminder (he pays half). He no longer contributes to clothes, shoes, food, medical bills, basically other than her childminder he does NOT contribute. I explained to him at the beginning of this year due to pay cuts, additional taxes etc that i would now ask him to split things like medical etc, i would notify him at the end of the month with receipts etc and he could pay me. Now in jan she need new shoes, coat and playschool bag, total about 80 euro, 40 of which he said he'd pay and hasnt, i didnt ask him for anythign in feb/mar but this month we had her birthday party (which i agreed with him in advance) and his share is 35 euro, now refusing to give it to me! He reckons cause i work and he doesnt i should foot all other bills for her but as it is like any household i have rent, esb, food etc, my wages just about last from one paycheque to the next. Am i unreasonable in asking him for the money for these things, considering he is out every weekend. I dont want to fall out over this for her sake but its getting ridiculous at this stage. He spends very little time with her but i am supplying all clothes, medicines, sun cream etc when she visits there. he actually rang me one night she was staying there to bring out calpol!!!!!

At the end of my tether, dont want to go to court because he is on BTEA and judge would probably order him to pay less than he currently is!!!

Nevyn

There are no costs outside of maintenance.
Maintenance is meant to be his share of the total cost of the child.
I suggest to total up the cost of the expenditure for the child and then divide it by two and go back to him with it and if needs be go back to court.
He doesn't have to pay anything but the agreed upon maintenance.

sarahky

Her father has said he will only pay half the childminder (80e per week) and after that he cannot afford to give any more towards her rearing, all else is footed by me. You think i'd be better to get a court order on maintenance???

Nevyn

If he is not working you could end up wiht a court order of a lot less, 80e a week is pretty reasonable, you are choosing to spend it on the child minder.

Are you claiming all the entitlemens you can be?
Single parents tax credits ect?

metrovelvet

If he is paying 80 per week and unemployed then no court is going to raise that amount. They might lower it though.

When you send her to him, dont pack anything.

sarahky

Thanks for your input. Because i work full time i am only entitled to the additional tax credits which dont make much of a difference to be honest. I have tried applying for FIS etc but i just fall outside the limits. I have tried not giving him additional stuff but like last sunday, she got sunburnt and he said all he had was factor 10!!! Dont want her suffering cause he's not bothered! The 80 euro is used to cover the childminder because that costs 160 per week, all else after that is paid by me, its just a struggle and i only ask for her benefit, its not for me but he doesnt seem to care after that.

Nevyn

Unfortunately the levels of maintenance rarely cover the true cost of a child.
It sounds like you did try to have an equitable system but then his financial circumstances
changed. Yes it is unfair but you can't change them and you can't make him want to change them and I hear your frustration that you are now struggling money wise and you are lumbered with the loin share of it all.

cbyrd

is he fulltime in college or could he take care of your daughter to reduce the cost of childcare??

ariel865

Have you looked into going part time and claiming the F.I.S. to make up the difference. That way you could save on the child care costs and maybe come out with a little extra money at the end of the week ?

metrovelvet

Can he mind the child while you are at work?

sarahky

He is in college 9-4 monday to friday so its not possible for him to take our daughter to ease the childcare costs and previoulsy when he's been off on midterm etc he hasnt taken her for any extra time that he normally does! He's just not interested! I am not able to work partime, the position i have and been lucky enuf to keep during the current climate, is not a part time position! I'm actually looking into council housin to ease the rent outgoing i have and have also cancelled many other things like sky etc. Just seems like i have to cut back, even more than i already have, to make ends meet! Just think its unfair that some fathers can suit themselves and not put the welfare of thier child first! I know most absent fathers are terrific in their approach to rearing and contributing to their child/children but my daughter doesnt have one of those!

LegacyUser

if hes back at college i take it hes just earning €200 per week???...if so u are very lucky to even be getting €80 from that as that is a very large chunk from his income and he can hardly be expected to pay anymore than this?.....but then maybe that assumption of income is wrong.

my ex is unemployed at mo and gives me 30 a week but i dont have childcare costs. i find it covers all the other costs fine and im happy enough as i realise he cant afford anymore at this time.its just unfortunate that you're childcare costs are so high.. is there no way this can be reduced a little?...you will find it alot easier whenever he/she goes to school...little solace for now tho.

Miss Lockhart

Does he work at all OP? How does he cover basic costs for himself and the €80 for your daughter?

I don't know much about child mainenance etc but I would be intersted if anyone could explain a few things about it for me:

Surely it is unfair that one parent is having to cover so much of the cost of raising a child while the other is getting away with minimal contribution and not making a significant non-financial contribution in terms of childcare etc?

Obviously if someone is genuinely unemployed and looking for a job then this is understandable. But surely, if you have a 4 year old daughter then going back to college full time is a lifestyle choice that you cannot really afford to make?

metrovelvet

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Does he work at all OP? How does he cover basic costs for himself and the €80 for your daughter?

I don't know much about child mainenance etc but I would be intersted if anyone could explain a few things about it for me:

Surely it is unfair that one parent is having to cover so much of the cost of raising a child while the other is getting away with minimal contribution and not making a significant non-financial contribution in terms of childcare etc?

Obviously if someone is genuinely unemployed and looking for a job then this is understandable. But surely, if you have a 4 year old daughter then going back to college full time is a lifestyle choice that you cannot really afford to make?

Nope it aint fair. But it's a story as old as the ages.

sarahky

He chose to give up his job about 2 years ago cause he didnt like it and then decided to go to college as he didnt want to be manual labour any more, so to me its a lifestyle choice! He says he gets 230 a week for BTEA but i dont think thats true, he is out one night every weekend and every couple of weeks there's new clothes or new runners. he travels about 100km round trip to college so he has his travel costs but he has no rent (lives with family) and no other outgoings! As you say a story as old as time, one parent provides and the other gets to live thier life as they choose! i'm resigned to moving home to my parents now if they'll have me just so i can provide for my daughter and not pay a lot of my salary out on rent!

Thanks for all your input and advice!

Ciara07

Thaedydal wrote: »

If he is not working you could end up wiht a court order of a lot less, 80e a week is pretty reasonable, you are choosing to spend it on the child minder.

Are you claiming all the entitlemens you can be?
Single parents tax credits ect?

80 Euro is pretty reasonable, what planet are you on? you're obviously not a parent! Visit treoir.ie they have very experienced staff who will offer solid advice over the phone, or flac.ie (free legal aid), based on your circumstances. Good luck

sarahky

I am a parent to a 4 year old!!! Have the C scars to prove it! I know 80 seems a lot to people but when you consider how much is spent per week/month on childcare and everything else its a lot more than 80 covers! AS i'm paid monthly between childcare, food, clothes (New shoes last week 40), GP (had to go yesterday cost me about 40 in meds) it can be anything up to 750/800 per month! And he gives 80 a week/320 a month towards that! Just not fair when he's out boozing, wearing the best clothes and doesnt give a toss about his own child! I wish i had the luxury to spend my money on me, booze and buy clothes and let someone else worry about my kid!!! thats exactly how he sees it!

ntlbell

sarahky wrote: »

I am a parent to a 4 year old!!! Have the C scars to prove it! I know 80 seems a lot to people but when you consider how much is spent per week/month on childcare and everything else its a lot more than 80 covers! AS i'm paid monthly between childcare, food, clothes (New shoes last week 40), GP (had to go yesterday cost me about 40 in meds) it can be anything up to 750/800 per month! And he gives 80 a week/320 a month towards that! Just not fair when he's out boozing, wearing the best clothes and doesnt give a toss about his own child! I wish i had the luxury to spend my money on me, booze and buy clothes and let someone else worry about my kid!!! thats exactly how he sees it!

He/she wasn't referring to you.

I think 80e is reasonable for someone who is currently unemployed, if you don't feel it is then you should seek legal advice about pursuing him in the courts.

Just beware if he is still currently unemployed you might actually be awarded less than you are getting now and depending on your situation might have legal costs.

What he spends his money on after that clothes/booze or otherwise is not nice to see, but isn't really any of your concern.

jessiejam

Sarahky

I'm not 100% sure about the FIS thing but if you could say how much you are paying out in rent, childcare and traveling to work it might help
The income limits for FIS are €509 (net) for 1 child.
So your basic wage less tax, prsi and pension levy etc.... I am assuming you are working in the public sector?
So say you bring home €450 per week after tax etc you are then entitled to 60% of the difference €35 p.w.
You are lucky to be getting €80 per week from him TBH, don't mean to sound patronising, but, on his income the judge would give you less IMO if you went to court about it
Also you could very well be entitled to a medical card if as you say sometimes meds cost a lot every month, gives me the impression there is some sort of long term illness involved?. All those factors mentioned above are taken into consideration when deciding about entitlement for med card.
Let me know what your basic is and what you pay out and it might make it a bit easier to figure out.
If you can....:)

Nevyn

Ciara07 wrote: »

80 Euro is pretty reasonable, what planet are you on? you're obviously not a parent! Visit treoir.ie they have very experienced staff who will offer solid advice over the phone, or flac.ie (free legal aid), based on your circumstances. Good luck

I am a parent.

I don't think 80 eruo is any where close to 50% of the cost of a child per week.

I do think that 80 Euro of maintenance from someone who is not working will be seen as more then reasonable by the courts.

smelltheglove

Op I have to echo a lot of what is being said here, it would most likely be cur if you went to court!

80 is a pretty standard amount in maintenance and is irritating as it is that his money stays his but yours is divided between yourself and your child it's just the way it is for primary parents! I'm saying this with experience of being a single parent receiving less!

Parenthood is hard especially when you do it alone but you gotta take every bit of help there is like fis and medical card and keep your head down and make a life for yourselves in whatever way you can!

d32

4 or 5 yrs ago i arranged for the dad to come to court to make maintenance agreement-he was unemployed back then. judge ordered him to pay 30 a week. he's working now-he still pays 30 and he refuses to pay more!!
i know this is a horrible approach but i totted up figures-birthday parties outings activities shoes/clothes grub dog petrol heating/lekky- and came to horrible realisation a kid costs around 160 a week!!
you know i wonder do these short-armed deep-pocketed folks not trust the 'main carer' parent with the money, it's all caught up in such messy games!

do you think being a student-with exams (and the new lifestyle!!)-has made him stressed(!) and he's pulled back from your kid for that reason?-hope he switches back 'on' during the summer hols.
good luck.

Deliverance

sarahky wrote: »

I am a parent to a 4 year old!!! Have the C scars to prove it! I know 80 seems a lot to people but when you consider how much is spent per week/month on childcare and everything else its a lot more than 80 covers! AS i'm paid monthly between childcare, food, clothes (New shoes last week 40), GP (had to go yesterday cost me about 40 in meds) it can be anything up to 750/800 per month! And he gives 80 a week/320 a month towards that! Just not fair when he's out boozing, wearing the best clothes and doesnt give a toss about his own child! I wish i had the luxury to spend my money on me, booze and buy clothes and let someone else worry about my kid!!! thats exactly how he sees it!

That is a very big presumption. Just because you guys did not get on and are seperated does not mean that the fella is not concerned about his child and you as well. Just because he is unemployed and lives a semblance of a life that he initially saw as a 'life'. He may have wanted you and his child in his life and then some.

Maybe in some way the chap is unemployed still because of the break up? It does happen. A broken heart does lead to stagnation in my experience.

Perhaps extenuating circumstances caused you to break up?

Personally to me it sounds like you are made for each other, but something holds you back. What that issue is is up to you guys to address with each other.

ash23

sarahk wrote:

Now in jan she need new shoes, coat and playschool bag, total about 80 euro

I think 80 is reasonable for maintenance from someone who is unemplyed. Also bear in mind that the child will be starting school soon and childcare costs will come down.

I highlighted the line above as I think that 80 for shoes, coat and schoolbag is excessive. While I understand you want the best for the child, you cannt just choose to get her the best and expect him to pay for it.
You might want clarks shoes at 50e a pop but thats your call. Not his.

I bought an entire school uniform x 2 and shoes and boots and a bag for my child for €120 last year.

Shoes were €8 in dunnes, coat was 15 in tesco and bag was 15 (and that was for a proper heavy schoolbag as my daughter is in 1st class).
Total = 40.

20 each. By bying the best you doubled the cost. Just something worth bearing in mind.

ntlbell

d32 wrote: »

4 or 5 yrs ago i arranged for the dad to come to court to make maintenance agreement-he was unemployed back then. judge ordered him to pay 30 a week. he's working now-he still pays 30 and he refuses to pay more!!
i know this is a horrible approach but i totted up figures-birthday parties outings activities shoes/clothes grub dog petrol heating/lekky- and came to horrible realisation a kid costs around 160 a week!!
you know i wonder do these short-armed deep-pocketed folks not trust the 'main carer' parent with the money, it's all caught up in such messy games!

do you think being a student-with exams (and the new lifestyle!!)-has made him stressed(!) and he's pulled back from your kid for that reason?-hope he switches back 'on' during the summer hols.
good luck.

If it costs 160e a week, does that not mean that 80e is roughly bang on the money? for 50%?

changes

€80 from someone unemployed is alot of money. Also, he can't live at home with his parents forever. So unless he gets a very well paid job he will prob be paying no more than 80 for quite some time.

OP apply for a Medical Card or a GP visit card, Are you paying rent or mortgage etc, do you have a car for work etc it all adds up you'd be elligible for at least the G.P visit card.

up for anything

Deliverance wrote: »

That is a very big presumption. Just because you guys did not get on and are seperated does not mean that the fella is not concerned about his child and you as well. Just because he is unemployed and lives a semblance of a life that he initially saw as a 'life'. He may have wanted you and his child in his life and then some.

Maybe in some way the chap is unemployed still because of the break up? It does happen. A broken heart does lead to stagnation in my experience.

Perhaps extenuating circumstances caused you to break up?

Personally to me it sounds like you are made for each other, but something holds you back. What that issue is is up to you guys to address with each other.

I don't know what you've read into the OP's posts to work out that! It seems to be a judgement on her rather than than a comment on her child's father's ability to pay maintenance.

She did say this:

He chose to give up his job about 2 years ago cause he didnt like it and then decided to go to college as he didnt want to be manual labour any more

And what is all that about extenuating circumstances causing the break-up?

up for anything

ash23 wrote: »

You might want clarks shoes at 50e a pop but thats your call. Not his.

I bought an entire school uniform x 2 and shoes and boots and a bag for my child for €120 last year.

Shoes were €8 in dunnes, coat was 15 in tesco and bag was 15 (and that was for a proper heavy schoolbag as my daughter is in 1st class).
Total = 40.

20 each. By bying the best you doubled the cost. Just something worth bearing in mind.

You get what you pay for. At the moment I end up buying their shoes (trainers usually because they don't have school uniform) in Shoe Zone, Pennys and Dunnes at a cost of between €12-€20 depending on size. Being worn every day, they last my boys a maximum of 6 weeks. When you buy Clarkes runners they last sometimes until they grow out of them. Buying cheap shoes is false economy as is buying cheap schoolbags. My youngest has had his bag since Senior Infants which I bought for €17.99 at the time and is now going into third. My lad in 4th class is on his fourth bag this year and I doubt it will see him to the end of June. Luckily I bought a load of them for €2 each three years ago and still have a few to get through. However, my eldest child's school bag was bought for €50 three years ago and will probably see her to the end of Secondary school. Again, you get what you pay for.

MagicMarker

d32 wrote: »

i know this is a horrible approach but i totted up figures-birthday parties outings activities shoes/clothes grub dog petrol heating/lekky- and came to horrible realisation a kid costs around 160 a week!!

Eh?

I don't have a kid, but petrol/heating/lekky isn't exactly child specific. I don't think anyone's esb bills go up dramatically when they suddenly have a child. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's not cheap, but what you've listed doesn't exactly strike me as costing 160 a week.

ash23

up for anything wrote: »

You get what you pay for. At the moment I end up buying their shoes (trainers usually because they don't have school uniform) in Shoe Zone, Pennys and Dunnes at a cost of between €12-€20 depending on size. Being worn every day, they last my boys a maximum of 6 weeks. When you buy Clarkes runners they last sometimes until they grow out of them. Buying cheap shoes is false economy as is buying cheap schoolbags. My youngest has had his bag since Senior Infants which I bought for €17.99 at the time and is now going into third. My lad in 4th class is on his fourth bag this year and I doubt it will see him to the end of June. Luckily I bought a load of them for €2 each three years ago and still have a few to get through. However, my eldest child's school bag was bought for €50 three years ago and will probably see her to the end of Secondary school. Again, you get what you pay for.

In your opinion. In mine kids wreck shoes fairly quick. I always bought clarkes runners for €50. One pair she only had a couple of months when they got too small. Another pair I got, the "paint" on the toes was torn off as soon as she wre them. I gave up buying them and switched to dunnes and I find they last just fine for the price. Maybe not quite as long but nowhere near ne fifth of the time, but they are one fifth of the cost.

Her child is in nursery and doesn't need a heavy duty school bag. I got a fairly good one on sale in january of JI and kept it up for this year.

Point is that the dad is on the dole and already paying 80e per week. And she's looking for him to go halves for the best of the best. It's not very fair.

up for anything

ash23 wrote: »

Point is that the dad is on the dole and already paying 80e per week. And she's looking for him to go halves for the best of the best. It's not very fair.

Yep, he gave up a job to pursue something he wanted without considering the knock on effect to his child. Why should he expect the OP to provide sun screen and Calpol for use on his time. I'm sorry but that is a bit much. He also agreed to pay half of the €80 and now he is reneging on it. But it seems he has money for new clothes and shoes for himself as well as nights out! She's working, not receiving any social welfare input and having to cut back and he seems to managing quite well on his BTEA payment.

He also doesn't take the child for extra time during his half term. Sounds like a doting father.

I don't think the OP is being unfair.

OP, you should make him aware that he may get more money because he takes the child overnight and then he would have the extra money for buying the basic necessities that the child needs when in his care if he can't budget his own BTEA money a bit better. After all if he is getting a social welfare payment he shouldn't be using it to buy anything other than necessities as has been pointed out in other threads and his daughter's needs should come before his own. A bottle of Calpol is the same price as a drink in a pub.