Metallica Superthread -All Metallica discussion goes in here

Motley Crue

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

According to a band autobiography written by Mick Wall it was Lars who first wanted rid of Jason, not James. Apparently Lars contacted Peter Mensch after they came back from their tour of Japan in late '86 demanding that Jason be fired but Mensch told him it was out of the question.

While I would say that Wall is my inspiration as a Music Journalist (not for his talent but rather his self confidence and the things he got away with) there is a certain amount of glamorization in those recent autobiographical books of his

I think that Jason probably didn't expect them to charge all the bills to his card, destroy his hotel room (which included smashing the frame of the bed) and consistently spread rumors that he was both gay and that he had a thing for one of the road crew at the time.

There was even suggestion that Jason's first short lived marriage was a lot to do with the physiological pressure he was facing in the band.

I would recommend this book on the subject
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Justice-All-Truth-%2522Metallica%2522-Metallica/dp/184449828X/ref=sr_1_44?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1390594267&sr=1-44&keywords=metallica

Out of print but probably the best book I've ever read on the subject

scudzilla

I have that AJFA book, Joel McIver is far and away the best metal author out there right now

Check out 'To live is to die', a book about Cliff by Joel, probably his best book

Riddle101

scudzilla wrote: »

I have that AJFA book, Joel McIver is far and away the best metal author out there right now

Check out 'To live is to die', a book about Cliff by Joel, probably his best book

Agreed, AJFA is the best. But I always felt the author was a bit biased towards Metallica's later stuff. He seems to be one of those Metallica fans that worships their 80's stuff but anything post AJFA sucks. But it's definitely the best biography I've read.

King George VI

Wordless wrote: »

I think Justice would have been a monster if it had low end on it.

I would love if Justice was remixed/remastered with and re-released. If that happened it would probably take MOP's spot as my favourite Metallica album.

hidinginthebush

Domineering of the absolute gentleman that is Jason newsted aside, am I the only one who loves how ajfa sounds? The no low end makes it sound so tight! I said this a while back, but I think it sounds like metal like that should sound. So harsh and ahressive.
I've heard and justice for Jason, and I think that's not a fair representation of how it'd sound with a proper remix. The bass is too flubby, for want of a better word. Its interesting to hear just to purely hear those songs with bass, but not a patch on the original IMO.

briany

hidinginthebush wrote: »

Domineering of the absolute gentleman that is Jason newsted aside, am I the only one who loves how ajfa sounds? The no low end makes it sound so tight! I said this a while back, but I think it sounds like metal like that should sound. So harsh and ahressive.
I've heard and justice for Jason, and I think that's not a fair representation of how it'd sound with a proper remix. The bass is too flubby, for want of a better word. Its interesting to hear just to purely hear those songs with bass, but not a patch on the original IMO.

If you take it that Jason was merely doubling the rhythm guitar for much we're probably not missing out on much anyway. The real shame is that he couldn't contribute another musical layer to that album.

Motley Crue

briany wrote: »

If you take it that Jason was merely doubling the rhythm guitar for much we're probably not missing out on much anyway. The real shame is that he couldn't contribute another musical layer to that album.

You could say he did, he contributed the main musical structure for 'Blackened' which is sadly more than his entire writing contributions for Load. It's the only example on that album where the bass leads the song from a writing point of view.

As Jason said himself, even when 'My Friend of Misery' was recorded and 'Blackened' was played live, neither song was performed the way he'd written it, since the emphasis was given to the guitarist over bassist. We can only assume the same thing about 'Where The Wild Things Are' but, obviously, we will probably never know as it's unlikely they will ever perform that one live.

Wordless

briany wrote: »

If you take it that Jason was merely doubling the rhythm guitar for much we're probably not missing out on much anyway. The real shame is that he couldn't contribute another musical layer to that album.

I know what you mean but it is less about doubling the rhythm guitar and more about the bass being non-existent in the mix. Cliff often doubled with the rhythm too but you can still hear him on the three albums he played on. I don't think James and Lars were deliberately keeping the bass off it to haze Jason ( I know it has been said that they did). Personally I don't think it sounds tighter it just sounds odd and has aged terribly. I love the songs though.

seachto7

Same style of mixing/mastering ruined Lights, Camera, Revolution, another brilliant album from around the same time

D.Q

What was the story with Lars/Kirk and drugs during the nineties?

briany

D.Q wrote: »

What was the story with Lars/Kirk and drugs during the nineties?

Well Lars' cocaine use has been pretty well documented. Kirk indulged in that too. I also read that he tried heroin a few times (smoking) either when he was in Exodus or during his experimental period in the years '93 - '97. Luckily, he didn't take to it.

Ash.J.Williams

Motley Crue wrote: »

You could say he did, he contributed the main musical structure for 'Blackened' which is sadly more than his entire writing contributions for Load. It's the only example on that album where the bass leads the song from a writing point of view.

As Jason said himself, even when 'My Friend of Misery' was recorded and 'Blackened' was played live, neither song was performed the way he'd written it, since the emphasis was given to the guitarist over bassist. We can only assume the same thing about 'Where The Wild Things Are' but, obviously, we will probably never know as it's unlikely they will ever perform that one live.

the original my friend of misery wasn't as good as what we have on the album. Same with sandman, if kirk and jason were left to their own devices we wouldn't have either song as we know it.

briany

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

the original my friend of misery wasn't as good as what we have on the album. Same with sandman, if kirk and jason were left to their own devices we wouldn't have either song as we know it.

Yeah, Jason said about that song that it was supposed to be the instrumental on TBA. Given that Metallica had done one instrumental per album up 'til then, it wasn't unreasonable to expect that it would be the same that time around yet, in retrospect, it was the right choice to make that into a full song seeing as the Black Album became a break with tradition and a change in sound.

bockeys jollocks

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

Wall also asserts that Metallica was split into two new factions during the Load era. With Lars and Kirk both experimenting with hard drugs, and eye liner - on one side, and James and Jason looking on with disdain from the other.

I actually stopped listening to Metallica after load and reload came out, the albums had a very grunge sound that I wasn't a fan of, and the make-up thing put me off. It wasn't until about 10 years later after DM came out that I bought the entire Metallica collection again, every album and EP, the whole lot.

I listened to load and Reload over and over but never took to it, I didn't take to some kind of monster either. DM is pretty good "my apocalypse" is a great song.

I think Rick Rubin ruined the DM album with the "crackly" mixing, it could have been mixed much better and "fatter" than it was, if you know what I mean.

At the moment I'm switching between AJFA, Puppets, the black album and S&M. I never get tired of those albums. I never saw them live in Ireland and hope they play another gig here before they retire.

hidinginthebush

Corey Taylor wrote:

"There are some people who would love for me to just be [politically correct] and toe the party line, which is [to say] 'You know, working with Rick Rubin was a very enriching experience. He is truly a great mind. . .' "Let me give you the f--king truth of it. Rick Rubin showed up for 45 minutes a week. During that 45 minutes, [he would] lay on a couch, have a mic brought in next to his face so he wouldn't have to f--king move. I swear to God. And then he would be, like, 'Play it for me.' The engineer would play it. And he had shades on the whole time. Never mind the fact that there is no sun in the room it's all dark. You just look like an a--hole at that point. He would just stroke his huge beard and try and get as much food out of it as he could. "About half way through our precious 45 minutes, he would bring in this plate of ****. I assume it was food. It was bluish green. It smelled like someone had just plunged a f--king toilet somewhere. And he would eat it as fast as he could just get it in there, all over himself. "I will say this: I respect what Rick Rubin has done in the past to get to where he is now. But ... the Rick Rubin of today is a thin, thin, thin shadow of the Rick Rubin that he was. He is overrated, he is overpaid, and I will never work with him again as long as I f--king live."

bockeys jollocks wrote: »

I think Rick Rubin ruined the DM album with the "crackly" mixing, it could have been mixed much better and "fatter" than it was, if you know what I mean.

Fwiw the engineer on that album has said that the shitty, clipped, over loud production was the bands decision. I don't think Rick usually has a lot to do with how the album is cut. Corey Taylor said that he waltzes in in his sunglasses, sits there for an hour then leaves again. He has other producers working for him dealing with the details.
But yeah, great album that sounds like ass.

Motley Crue

bockeys jollocks wrote: »

It wasn't until about 10 years later after DM came out that I bought the entire Metallica collection again, every album and EP, the whole lot.

To be fair, asides from touring and experimenting with a number of different sounds and genres you really didn't miss much

I mean if the period between 1997 (post ReLoad) and 2008 (pre Death Magnetic) was examined we'd see just a lot of turmoil in the band, a lot of experimentation and then moving on to other idea's and just a constant touring factory of live dates

bockeys jollocks

Motley Crue wrote: »

To be fair, asides from touring and experimenting with a number of different sounds and genres you really didn't miss much

I mean if the period between 1997 (post ReLoad) and 2008 (pre Death Magnetic) was examined we'd see just a lot of turmoil in the band, a lot of experimentation and then moving on to other idea's and just a constant touring factory of live dates

Yeah it doesn't seem like they were up to much, I remember reading about Jason leaving and James going to rehab. I wasn't surprised Jason left.

I honestly thought the band were finished back then, apart from doing S&M, they seemed to be on a downward spiral in the years leading up to James going to rehab.

hidinginthebush

Motley Crue wrote: »

To be fair, asides from touring and experimenting with a number of different sounds and genres you really didn't miss much

I mean if the period between 1997 (post ReLoad) and 2008 (pre Death Magnetic) was examined we'd see just a lot of turmoil in the band, a lot of experimentation and then moving on to other idea's and just a constant touring factory of live dates

Ah now, let's not forget they played puppets in its entirety at the RDS in that time, also banging out the god that failed at that gig. It was a good day!
Edit: whoops, just saw you said apart from touring!

briany

bockeys jollocks wrote: »

I actually stopped listening to Metallica after load and reload came out, the albums had a very grunge sound that I wasn't a fan of, and the make-up thing put me off. It wasn't until about 10 years later after DM came out that I bought the entire Metallica collection again, every album and EP, the whole lot.

People say Metallica went grunge in the 90s, but a couple of artsy pics in a CD booklet and a slower, more deliberate approach to the (still heavy) music does not a grunge band make. I don't even know what Grunge is, not when you consider that both Nirvana and AiC were lumped into it together as the poster boys, yet they both had their own disparate sound. AiC always sounded more like good old grooving rock to me. Seems more like a hype term that caught fire.

King George VI

Ahh I wouldn't say they went grunge on the 90s. They went more hard rock with a twinge of country. Load is a bollocks album, reload is decent. Prince Charming is a great track.

seachto7

I prefer Load to Reload. If you could make one album out of the two what 10 or 12 songs would you pick?

Mental Mickey

St. Jimmy wrote: »

Ahh I wouldn't say they went grunge on the 90s. They went more hard rock with a twinge of country. Load is a bollocks album, reload is decent. Prince Charming is a great track.

ReLoad is terrible

bockeys jollocks

I remember when I saw the first images of Metallica when they got their hair cut. Then load came out with the new logo. I remember being absolutely disgusted and betrayed.....Ha Ha funny and silly now when I think about it. I cant remember if they had worn make up for load, but definitely for re-load

Here was the band I had been listening to since 1987 and they betrayed me and my mates.:D bare in mind I had just got my hands on a copy of "live shít, binge & purge Seattle" on VHS about 2 months earlier, the aggression was unreal in that concert.

The Metallica in Seattle '89 was a polar opposite to the new Metallica and I was furious. I remember my mother taking the mick out of me. My sister would walk in and say "what the hell is wrong with him?" and my mother would say.."ahh leave him alone, Metallica are gay now and he upset" My sister thought this was hilarious.

Gas now when I think of it, so I ditched Metallica and found solace in Sepultura and Slayer, I always liked them, but they became my new number 1 bands, they wouldn't betray me, they were too evil to change drastically I thought.

What did the rest of ye think when you saw the first pictures of the new Metallica with make-up and new hair cuts in the mid 90's?

stefan idiot jones

bockeys jollocks wrote: »

What did the rest of ye think when you saw the first pictures of the new Metallica with make-up and new hair cuts in the mid 90's?

Grouped them together with Crue, Poison, Cinderella and the other image before integrity desperate sold out whores.

Thankfully I listen with my ears not my eyes and love Load and Reload etc.

slavetothegrind

the make up thing was surprising alright. if you had introduced the made up versions of themselves to the fight fire with fire versions of themselves there would have been a row for sure!!!!

and leave tom kiefer out of it, the man has plenty of musical integrity

AllGunsBlazing

There is no doubt that Load is heavily influenced by the Seattle explosion. 'Until it Sleeps' and 'Hero of the Day' with their quiet verses and big shouty choruses both have the AIC influence written all over them. And Soundgarden were dabbling with that southern bluesy country sound long before Metallica.

I can even hear the AIC influence on 'The Day that Never Comes' which again follows the quiet verse/big chorus dynamic pretty slavishly.

StaticAge11

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

There is no doubt that Load is heavily influenced by the Seattle explosion. 'Until it Sleeps' and 'Hero of the Day' with their quiet verses and big shouty choruses both have the AIC influence written all over them. And Soundgarden were dabbling with that southern bluesy country sound long before Metallica.

I can even hear the AIC influence on 'The Day that Never Comes' which again follows the quiet verse/big chorus dynamic pretty slavishly.

I wouldn't call that an Alice In Chains influence, Metallica seem to follow that style for all their ballad-esque songs: Fade to Black, Sanitarium and One all have this structure Intro - solo - quiet verse - loud chorus - verse - chorus - all hell breaks loose. To me Day follows this same model, rather than the AIC influence.

bockeys jollocks

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

I can even hear the AIC influence on 'The Day that Never Comes' which again follows the quiet verse/big chorus dynamic pretty slavishly.

So back then for the first time, Metallica was adopting what was going on around them instead of trailblazing. Looking back, they were right to cut their hair, I suppose that was seen as "so 80's", and most new metal bands at that time had shaved heads and short hair. I didn't agree with the make-up bit, kirk got way too mincy and feminine around that time in interviews too.

Very weird time for the band.

briany

bockeys jollocks wrote: »

So back then for the first time, Metallica was adopting what was going on around them instead of trailblazing. Looking back, they were right to cut their hair, I suppose that was seen as "so 80's", and most new metal bands at that time had shaved heads and short hair. I didn't agree with the make-up bit, kirk got way too mincy and feminine around that time in interviews too.

Very weird time for the band.

Something that is often wrongly assumed about Metallica is that the cutting of their hair was some sort of deliberate, co-ordinated stylistic decision like they had a sit down and said, 'Right, management says the long hair thing is over. If we want to stay trendy and keep selling records, we gotta book four appointments down at super cuts." Truth is that it happened over a period of time with Newsted being the first to get it cropped, I believe, and he had the shaved around the sides thing going for years before that. James did it in stages with that ratty redneck mullet he kept right up until Load dropped and then Kirk and Lars.

The others thing is, people who've had long hair may understand, after a while and like anything else it just gets a bit old and you fancy a change.

jack presley

briany wrote: »

Something that is often wrongly assumed about Metallica is that the cutting of their hair was some sort of deliberate, co-ordinated stylistic decision like they had a sit down and said, 'Right, management says the long hair thing is over. If we want to stay trendy and keep selling records, we gotta book four appointments down at super cuts." Truth is that it happened over a period of time with Newsted being the first to get it cropped, I believe, and he had the shaved around the sides thing going for years before that. James did it in stages with that ratty redneck mullet he kept right up until Load dropped and then Kirk and Lars.

The others thing is, people who've had long hair may understand, after a while and like anything else it just gets a bit old and you fancy a change.

With the exception of Jason, it was probably because they were all going bald and long hair but bald on top does look pretty stupid