Metallica Superthread -All Metallica discussion goes in here

Whiskeyjack

Any thoughts on future material from them? Death Magnetic showed some promise and real moments of brilliance, but had similar problems to Justice like overly padded out arrangements feck all bass (despite them going on about how he was going to feature a lot more than Jason).

Mental Mickey

Whiskeyjack wrote: »

Any thoughts on future material from them? Death Magnetic showed some promise and real moments of brilliance, but had similar problems to Justice like overly padded out arrangements feck all bass (despite them going on about how Rob was going to feature a lot more than Jason).

He got more songwriting credits on one album than Jason did in his whole Metallica career.

Motley Crue

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Friend of mine saw them in either Melbourne or Sydney on the same tour, and said that they played for over 4 hours. Said it was absolutely insane too. They even played some songs twice, even three times!

Was probably on Leg 2 of the Nowhere Else to Roam Tour

March 26, 1993 Auckland, New Zealand The Supertop
March 27, 1993 Sydney, Australia Entertainment Centre
March 29, 1993 Brisbane, Australia Entertainment Centre
March 31, 1993 Sydney, Australia Entertainment Centre
April 1, 1993 Sydney, Australia Entertainment Centre
April 3, 1993 Melbourne, Australia National Tennis Centre
April 4, 1993 Melbourne, Australia National Tennis Centre
April 5, 1993 Adelaide, Australia Entertainment Centre
April 7, 1993 Perth, Australia Entertainment Centre
April 8, 1993 Perth, Australia Entertainment Centre

This was the last leg to have no support apparently, by the time they returned to Germany in May 1993 to begin the 3rd leg they were supported by The Cult and Suicidal Tendencies (this includes the Milton Keynes 93 date with Megadeth and Diamond Head - and a few extra Megadeth shows, like Turin, on that leg as well)

Motley Crue

There's a US state called Delaware and apparently Metallica have only ever played their once in their career, in 1989 on the Damaged Justice Tour, and have never felt the need to return lol

During Metallica’s legendary 1989 show, a crowd surge knocked down the metal railings near the stage, leaving exposed nails near the pit. Remembers Tim Tully, who was a doorman at the time: “We had to send all the bouncers and bartenders down there so nobody would get impaled

For this reason, Metallica have never been able to perform in all 50 States of the US in a single tour - a record that still stands

Whiskeyjack

Mental Mickey wrote: »

He got more songwriting credits on one album than Jason did in his whole Metallica career.

Really? He was barely audible on the record (apart from that bit in cyanide) so I figured he wouldn't have featured in the writing as much either.

Motley Crue

Whiskeyjack wrote: »

Really? He was barely audible on the record (apart from that bit in cyanide) so I figured he wouldn't have featured in the writing as much either.

All songs on the album are credited four ways, whether that represents the actual practice or whether this was something that allowed the four members to be equal (and allowed Rob to earn as much money as he could compared to his bandmates) only time, and another album, will tell

I'm interested to know how the likes of Jason and Rob actually get paid. I mean, was Jason paid as a session musician for his work on Load and ReLoad. He has one writing credit on those two albums, and plays bass, but he didn't actually write his bass parts (James did) and he didn't produce so how did he earn money? Does he get a performance cheque for playing on the record and are future earnings given to him because he played on the album....if he co-wrote one song on the Black album and one song on AJFA and the Black album has 11 tracks then surely that means he's only getting a fraction of royalties when you divide it up compared to Ulrich, Hetfield and Hammett Inc.

I know he would have got paid to tour, and gotten a share of the tours profits (he wouldn't have really had to spend his own money on the road since they would have had an allowance), but how would that work financially - I mean, there's a certain cut that everyone takes, VAT and so forth, what would an individual like Jason come out with compared to James and Lars....

If anyone here is a musician or can explain this to me I'd be interested to know how someone who plays bass in a band and tours with the band but neither writes with them or receives royalties became a multi millionaire...

Ash.J.Williams

Motley Crue wrote: »

All songs on the album are credited four ways, whether that represents the actual practice or whether this was something that allowed the four members to be equal (and allowed Rob to earn as much money as he could compared to his bandmates) only time, and another album, will tell

I'm interested to know how the likes of Jason and Rob actually get paid. I mean, was Jason paid as a session musician for his work on Load and ReLoad. He has one writing credit on those two albums, and plays bass, but he didn't actually write his bass parts (James did) and he didn't produce so how did he earn money? Does he get a performance cheque for playing on the record and are future earnings given to him because he played on the album....if he co-wrote one song on the Black album and one song on AJFA and the Black album has 11 tracks then surely that means he's only getting a fraction of royalties when you divide it up compared to Ulrich, Hetfield and Hammett Inc.

I know he would have got paid to tour, and gotten a share of the tours profits (he wouldn't have really had to spend his own money on the road since they would have had an allowance), but how would that work financially - I mean, there's a certain cut that everyone takes, VAT and so forth, what would an individual like Jason come out with compared to James and Lars....

If anyone here is a musician or can explain this to me I'd be interested to know how someone who plays bass in a band and tours with the band but neither writes with them or receives royalties became a multi millionaire...

i believe metallica are fairly sound regarding members wages! Jason as far as i know was an equal partner....there was so much cash made in his time there could be no excuse for being scabby!

(edit: and jason and metallica both stated they are business partners for life after he left)

Kess73

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

i believe metallica are fairly sound regarding members wages! Jason as far as i know was an equal partner....there was so much cash made in his time there could be no excuse for being scabby!

(edit: and jason and metallica both stated they are business partners for life after he left)

Watching them talk on Some Kind Of Monster about how Rob would be paid, tends to suggest that Jason was nothing like being an equal partner in terms of earnings.

They made such a big deal of saying how they wanted Rob to get 25% of earnings over some original contract he was being offered, coupled with comments about how Jason was treated, that it suggested Jason's income was far lower than that of the rest of the band.

Mental Mickey

Whiskeyjack wrote: »

Really? He was barely audible on the record (apart from that bit in cyanide) so I figured he wouldn't have featured in the writing as much either.

Yes, he did. Have a look at the booklet that came with DM. It clearly states "all songs written by Hetfield, Ulrich, Hammett and Trujillo".

Kess73

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Yes, he did. Have a look at the booklet that came with DM. It clearly states "all songs written by Hetfield, Ulrich, Hammett and Trujillo".

Again I think that goes back to the Some Kind Of Monster speech where they went on about from that point onwards they wanted all credits to be as a unit rather than listed as individuals.

Mental Mickey

Kess73 wrote: »

Watching them talk on Some Kind Of Monster about how Rob would be paid, tends to suggest that Jason was nothing like being an equal partner in terms of earnings.

They made such a big deal of saying how they wanted Rob to get 25% of earnings over some original contract he was being offered, coupled with comments about how Jason was treated, that it suggested Jason's income was far lower than that of the rest of the band.

You have to remember that they had to search for a replacement for Cliff pretty much immediately after his funeral. They had an Asian tour booked and had to honour those dates. They had virtually no time to get to know each other(the only time they seemed to be together was when they were drinking?). In SKOM, there is a piece with James where he said that they wanted to "wipe the slate completely clean" before they recruited a new member(hence Bob Rock appearing on St Anger).

Ash.J.Williams

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Yes, he did. Have a look at the booklet that came with DM. It clearly states "all songs written by Hetfield, Ulrich, Hammett and Trujillo".

I was expecting more....the bass lines are there but just lost in the mix...


look up the torrents for the fan mixes of death magnetic..(lars said it's ok) they were created from the stem files extracted from guitar hero..they are a major improvement on the rubin mix...

Kess73

Mental Mickey wrote: »

You have to remember that they had to search for a replacement for Cliff pretty much immediately after his funeral. They had an Asian tour booked and had to honour those dates. They had virtually no time to get to know each other(the only time they seemed to be together was when they were drinking?). In SKOM, there is a piece with James where he said that they wanted to "wipe the slate completely clean" before they recruited a new member(hence Bob Rock appearing on St Anger).

Yeah they may have hired too quickly after Cliff, but there are still years between hiring Jason and him leaving. Plenty of time to get to know him and arrange things financially.


Hetfield was shown up as a pretty pathetic person with how the Jason thing was handled tbh.

Mental Mickey

Kess73 wrote: »

Yeah they may have hired too quickly after Cliff, but there are still years between hiring Jason and him leaving. Plenty of time to get to know him and arrange things financially.


Hetfield was shown up as a pretty pathetic person with how the Jason thing was handled tbh.

And he freely admits that. I think the issues he had were addressed when he spent time in rehab? The guy had a seriously ****ed up childhood.

Mental Mickey

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I was expecting more....the bass lines are there but just lost in the mix...


look up the torrents for the fan mixes of death magnetic..(lars said it's ok) they were created from the stem files extracted from guitar hero..they are a major improvement on the rubin mix...

I prefer to buy my cd's.

Ash.J.Williams

Mental Mickey wrote: »

I prefer to buy my cd's.

yeah me too...what are you on about?

the fan mixes are not on sale...and lars said it's ok

Mental Mickey

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

yeah me too...what are you on about?

the fan mixes are not on sale...and lars said it's ok

Couldn't be a**ed about them tbh.

Ash.J.Williams

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Couldn't be a**ed about them tbh.

They are very interesting....i was facinated at the time about how poor production has become. Death magnetic was the best example yet. Even prompting the band to respond when they heard it...
(metallica were on tour during the mixing)

GrizzlyMan

Actually got a copy of the cut up version of of the album when it came out! and yes it was better than the Rubin mixes, but a terrible album none the less:P

Motley Crue

Kess73 wrote: »

Yeah they may have hired too quickly after Cliff, but there are still years between hiring Jason and him leaving. Plenty of time to get to know him and arrange things financially.

I was only watching an interview yesterday, with Metallica on Headbangers Ball in late 92 in San Francisco (Rikki Rach...something, he was doing it) and Jason was saying that when he joined Metallica he was given some gear, some clothes for stage wear and an advance - literally ten days after he joined the band he was on stage for his first night in Japan performing with them.

Mental Mickey wrote: »

And he freely admits that. I think the issues he had were addressed when he spent time in rehab? The guy had a seriously ****ed up childhood.

I think this had to do with the religious household he was brought up in and the fact they were both the same age and Hetfield probably, after he got to know Jason, probably didn't really like him and was a bit pissed that Jason was getting rich off of Cliff's death (not Jason's fault, Metallica hired him to do that) but the grief just came out by tormenting, not physically abusing, but sort of hazing Jason - and as Hetfield says on MTV Icon, that never really stopped

One thing I will say is that at least Metallica still play Blackened regularly live (and haven't stopped playing it because of the Jason writing credit) - but I would think Dave Mustaine still makes more money from Metallica based on royalties then Jason Newsted makes, I could be wrong, but I would believe this. Someone made a comment a few years ago that Mustaine could have had a moderately comfortable living from the royalties he receives from Metallica for his music if he'd never released a single Megadeth album.

http://livemetallica.com/searchRes.aspx?searchStr=blackened&x=0&y=0

As well as sales of albums there is also all the live performances of Phantom Lord, Ride The Lightning, The Four Horsemen...the list goes on....

It must have eaten them up to be recording Binge and Purge and think Mustaine would make money from that because they played Four Horsemen lol

Ash.J.Williams

Motley Crue wrote: »

I was only watching an interview yesterday, with Metallica on Headbangers Ball in late 92 in San Francisco (Rikki Rach...something, he was doing it) and Jason was saying that when he joined Metallica he was given some gear, some clothes for stage wear and an advance - literally ten days after he joined the band he was on stage for his first night in Japan performing with them.



I think this had to do with the religious household he was brought up in and the fact they were both the same age and Hetfield probably, after he got to know Jason, probably didn't really like him and was a bit pissed that Jason was getting rich off of Cliff's death (not Jason's fault, Metallica hired him to do that) but the grief just came out by tormenting, not physically abusing, but sort of hazing Jason - and as Hetfield says on MTV Icon, that never really stopped

One thing I will say is that at least Metallica still play Blackened regularly live (and haven't stopped playing it because of the Jason writing credit) - but I would think Dave Mustaine still makes more money from Metallica based on royalties then Jason Newsted makes, I could be wrong, but I would believe this. Someone made a comment a few years ago that Mustaine could have had a moderately comfortable living from the royalties he receives from Metallica for his music if he'd never released a single Megadeth album.

http://livemetallica.com/searchRes.aspx?searchStr=blackened&x=0&y=0

As well as sales of albums there is also all the live performances of Phantom Lord, Ride The Lightning, The Four Horsemen...the list goes on....

It must have eaten them up to be recording Binge and Purge and think Mustaine would make money from that because they played Four Horsemen lol

Jason is still getting paid a lot of money as far as i know..he mentioned they are "business partners for life"....a well managed band like metallica probably have major investments all over the place, that they each benefit from.

Kess73

Motley Crue wrote: »

I was only watching an interview yesterday, with Metallica on Headbangers Ball in late 92 in San Francisco (Rikki Rach...something, he was doing it) and Jason was saying that when he joined Metallica he was given some gear, some clothes for stage wear and an advance - literally ten days after he joined the band he was on stage for his first night in Japan performing with them.



I think this had to do with the religious household he was brought up in and the fact they were both the same age and Hetfield probably, after he got to know Jason, probably didn't really like him and was a bit pissed that Jason was getting rich off of Cliff's death (not Jason's fault, Metallica hired him to do that) but the grief just came out by tormenting, not physically abusing, but sort of hazing Jason - and as Hetfield says on MTV Icon, that never really stopped

One thing I will say is that at least Metallica still play Blackened regularly live (and haven't stopped playing it because of the Jason writing credit) - but I would think Dave Mustaine still makes more money from Metallica based on royalties then Jason Newsted makes, I could be wrong, but I would believe this. Someone made a comment a few years ago that Mustaine could have had a moderately comfortable living from the royalties he receives from Metallica for his music if he'd never released a single Megadeth album.

http://livemetallica.com/searchRes.aspx?searchStr=blackened&x=0&y=0

As well as sales of albums there is also all the live performances of Phantom Lord, Ride The Lightning, The Four Horsemen...the list goes on....

It must have eaten them up to be recording Binge and Purge and think Mustaine would make money from that because they played Four Horsemen lol

Throw in the small matter of Hetfield not being secure enough or mature enough to be able to handle Jason wanting to do side projects during his downtime from Metallica.

Hetfield's various excuses about how he treats Newstead tend to be taken as bullsh*t by me, simply because the story has changed as time went by.

Sometimes Hetfield uses his own upbringing as an excuse for treating Jason badly. Other times he claims that he did not want Jason doing anything musically outside of Metallica. Other times he tries to blame Jason for getting rich on the back of Cliff Burton.

He always seems to have an excuse, but the excuses change.

I loved Metallica when I listened to them in the 1980's, loved them when they brought out the Black albumk and Load, and I still get a kick out of seeing them live, but as people I think that there are three bullsh*tters in that band who went more and more up their own arses as time went by.

Motley Crue

Kess73 wrote: »

I loved Metallica when I listened to them in the 1980's, loved them when they brought out the Black albumk and Load, and I still get a kick out of seeing them live, but as people I think that there are three bullsh*tters in that band who went more and more up their own arses as time went by.

3 bull****ters....who still make music worth listening too

But, and this is about to cause a problem I can feel it, have been musically surpassed by Megadeth

If Megadeth doesn't win a Grammy in a week, after nine nominations, I'll be calling shenanigans!

Kess73

Motley Crue wrote: »

3 bull****ters....who still make music worth listening too

But, and this is about to cause a problem I can feel it, have been musically surpassed by Megadeth

If Megadeth doesn't win a Grammy in a week, after nine nominations, I'll be calling shenanigans!

Would disagree slightly with your first line. For me it would be three bullsh*tters who still play music worth listening to live.

In terms of making music worth listening to, well it could be argued that everything after Load falls between average and awful. If any band bar Metallica had made the same albums they would have sank without a trace.


As for the Megadeth comment. Well Endgame was a far better album than Death Magnetic to my ears, but both fell well behind Testament's Formation Of Damnation. Yet the best album of the three sold squat compared to the other two. Just goes to show that having a good name can be worth more than releasing a good album at times.


Guess I will have to see what kind of album Megadeth release this year to see if they can continue their run of decent form.

Of course I expect it to be blown away when Testament release their new album later this year. :P

jack presley

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Jason is still getting paid a lot of money as far as i know..he mentioned they are "business partners for life"....a well managed band like metallica probably have major investments all over the place, that they each benefit from.

Even though he's left the band, Jason will still get royalties from the sales of the CDs he appeared on and he'll still get publishing money from the songs he got a writing credit.

Riddle101

Kess73 wrote: »

Throw in the small matter of Hetfield not being secure enough or mature enough to be able to handle Jason wanting to do side projects during his downtime from Metallica.

Hetfield's various excuses about how he treats Newstead tend to be taken as bullsh*t by me, simply because the story has changed as time went by.

Sometimes Hetfield uses his own upbringing as an excuse for treating Jason badly. Other times he claims that he did not want Jason doing anything musically outside of Metallica. Other times he tries to blame Jason for getting rich on the back of Cliff Burton.

He always seems to have an excuse, but the excuses change.

I loved Metallica when I listened to them in the 1980's, loved them when they brought out the Black albumk and Load, and I still get a kick out of seeing them live, but as people I think that there are three bullsh*tters in that band who went more and more up their own arses as time went by.

The thing you have to remember about James Hetfield is that he's basically like the protective big brother of the band. He cares about Metallica, to the extent that he might be a little too controlling or protective. He proberly thought that if Jason did outside projects while still being in the band, it would take time away from Metallica and effect Metallica. I actually think I read that somewhere tbh. But I think if he was insecure it was only because he was afraid that Metallica would get effected too, and so the only way Jason saw any way out was to leave the band, which he did. I don't really blame either James or Jason for what happened because they both have good points for the way things went. James was thinking about Metallica and trying to protect Metallica, and Jason wanted to try new things, experiment as such and the only way he could do that was leave.

As for Lars and Kirk, because i'm just touching on what you said at the end about three bullsh!tters. Lars I would proberly agree with you. But Kirk is just Kirk, he's not really known for having a repuation in the band like Lars and James.

Motley Crue wrote: »

3 bull****ters....who still make music worth listening too

But, and this is about to cause a problem I can feel it, have been musically surpassed by Megadeth

If Megadeth doesn't win a Grammy in a week, after nine nominations, I'll be calling shenanigans!

You're proberly right about Megadeth surpassing them, but at the moment. However we'll just have to see what Metallica have lined up in the future because it could more or less blow Megadeth out of the water.

Kess73

Riddle101 wrote: »

The thing you have to remember about James Hetfield is that he's basically like the protective big brother of the band. He cares about Metallica, to the extent that he might be a little too controlling or protective. He proberly thought that if Jason did outside projects while still being in the band, it would take time away from Metallica and effect Metallica. I actually think I read that somewhere tbh. But I think if he was insecure it was only because he was afraid that Metallica would get effected too, and so the only way Jason saw any way out was to leave the band, which he did. I don't really blame either James or Jason for what happened because they both have good points for the way things went. James was thinking about Metallica and trying to protect Metallica, and Jason wanted to try new things, experiment as such and the only way he could do that was leave.

As for Lars and Kirk, because i'm just touching on what you said at the end about three bullsh!tters. Lars I would proberly agree with you. But Kirk is just Kirk, he's not really known for having a repuation in the band like Lars and James.



You're proberly right about Megadeth surpassing them, but at the moment. However we'll just have to see what Metallica have lined up in the future because it could more or less blow Megadeth out of the water.

Fair enough with what you said if we did not have Hetfield passing comment himself on the matter in Some Kind Of Monster. His comments about would Jason (through Echobrain) start selling shirts and merchandise is very telling imho.

Hetfield's arguement came across as weak and more as an insecure weak individual who wanted to have the final say on what Jason could or could not do rather than a protective big brother type.

I think Some Kind Of Monster made for great watching in many ways, especially as it blew many of the myths about Hetfield and Lars, myths that they themselves were pretty happy to try and keep going, out of the water.


As musicians I have great respect for the great music they brought into my life, but as people I think they are pretty low brow and low on class.

slavetothegrind

Your last sentence says it all for me.

Whiskeyjack

I don't get why Mustaine seems to come off better to most people. I've seen interviews with him and Lars and to be honest they seem just as petty and childish as each other.

Ash.J.Williams

Motley Crue wrote: »

3 bull****ters....who still make music worth listening too

But, and this is about to cause a problem I can feel it, have been musically surpassed by Megadeth

If Megadeth doesn't win a Grammy in a week, after nine nominations, I'll be calling shenanigans!

I suppose it was inevitable...mustaine still has the hunger, once the dollars rolled in for metallica things were going to change. Mustaine had something to prove, although it must be said he has had a great career himself and no shame at being in 2nd place (overall)....but what a gap between first and second in the cash stakes..