For those of you who had forgotten about C.Ronaldo

3hn2givr7mx1sc

#15 wrote: »

You're right. I misread your first post:o

I'm leaving the general point out there though.

1)Messi

further back is

2)Ronaldo

and futher still

3)a group of talented players (Gerrard, Xavi, Rooney, Iniesta etc)

I'd have Rooney, Iniesta and Xavi ahead of Gerrard, he's been shít this season.

#15

5ForKeeps wrote: »

Oh was that goal Paul Scholes got to send you to the final that season or was that the anonymous Ronaldo who missed the peno in the Nou Camp and went missing for the rest of that leg and the one at Old Trafford well done!

You are completely ignoring the tactical disposition of each team in those games. Ronaldo scares the bollocks of teams - his presence alone in big games offers opportunities for his team. There's only a handful of players in world football who can impact upon an opponent without touching the ball - Messi does a severe amount of damage in this fashion too.

5ForKeeps

#15 wrote: »

I don't think you understood me. The whole Barca defence was conditioned to stop Ronaldo, the fact that Reals midfield was snuffed out was due to VDV playing too far forward and the Barca midfield squeezing Real everythime they got the ball. It happens to most midfields that play Barca, its ntthing new.

There are a handful of players in the world who can condition an opponent when they don't have the ball - Ronaldo is one of them.

Rolling off a list of matches is pointless - it tells us nothing of substance.

There is no way I could agree that anyone who has won the world player of the year award goes missing in the big games.

Why is it pointless to the arugment?

So by that premise, we can't debate Rivaldo cause he won World Player Of The Year...

#15

baz2009 wrote: »

I'd have Rooney, Iniesta and Xavi ahead of Gerrard, he's been shít this season.

That was for illustrative purposes, I didn't mean to imply that Gerrard was ahead of Xavi!

5ForKeeps

#15 wrote: »

You are completely ignoring the tactical disposition of each team in those games. Ronaldo scares the bollocks of teams - his presence alone in big games offers opportunities for his team. There's only a handful of players in world football who can impact upon an opponent without touching the ball - Messi does a severe amount of damage in this fashion too.

Archimedes wrote: »

That wasn't Rooney, that was Ronaldo. :rolleyes:

Fair enough it was Ronaldo.

Peyton Manning

Like a drunk guy riding a fat chick and beginning to sober up, Im going to withdraw from this thread before I become further associated with it.

#15

5ForKeeps wrote: »

Why is it pointless to the arugment?

So by that premise, we can't debate Rivaldo cause he won World Player Of The Year...

Because the list of matches where he turned up would be substantially longer than the matches where he didn't, and in the end, you'd still think that a WPOY and a CL final goalscorer fails to turn up in the big games.

Pointless.

Re: Rivaldo, we can debate him, but are you trying to say that he was a bottler?

5ForKeeps

#15 wrote: »

Because the list of matches where he turned up would be substantially longer than the matches where he didn't, and in the end, you'd still think that a WPOY and a CL final goalscorer fails to turn up in the big games.

Pointless.

Re: Rivaldo, we can debate him, but are you trying to say that he was a bottler?

Not implying he is a bottler but just an example of a player who had the habit of going missing on occassions when it came to the crunch.

Spiritoftheseventies

baz2009 wrote: »

I'd have Rooney, Iniesta and Xavi ahead of Gerrard, he's been shít this season.

Gerrard while being reasonably poor has still popped up with some important goals for us. But by his high standards has not had the best of seasons

Mitch Connor

great goal for him tonight

Headshot

dedicated to the barca/messi fanboys

Pro. F

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

I'm not blaming him for it, or Ronaldo. There's no point continuing this, cos I don't think we're even arguing about the same thing.

Let's just leave it at : Higuain and Ronaldo are good players.:D

cool man
peace out

Iago

I wonder if you actually realise how tiresome it is to have to constantly put warnings in threads that posters should remain civil and debate like adults rather than having a go at each other!

Any further posts that breach the charter will be punished by infractions at a minimium

Paul Tergat

I still miss Ronaldo.

redout

Headshot wrote: »

dedicated to the barca/messi fanboys

eZe^

This debate will inevitably be decided on who'll be remembered more in 20 years time. It was the same thing between Kubala and Di Stefano (or Rivaldo vs Ronaldo) back in the day, one will etch his name much more prominently in the history books, I reckon it'll be Messi, as I think he is superior in nearly every aspect of the game, but only time will tell.

Warper

I remember this time last year, according to a lot of Man Utd fans and PL fans that Ronaldo was a better player than Messi and Barca would barely finish in the Top 4 in the PL :rolleyes:

dreamers75

eZe^ wrote: »

This debate will inevitably be decided on who'll be remembered more in 20 years time. .

WRONG!!!

its who will be liked in 20 years, seriously this has nothing to do with football fans opinion on Ronaldo. Noone likes him hes a ****, i have this discussion every day. Ronaldo is as good as Messi possibly better in that he can play as a CF and WF.

It will always come down to peoples opinions and on this site, everyone hates Ronaldo and loves Messi.

Ronaldo and Messi are the 2 best players in the world, some english lad is having a good season out of 7 or so seemingly is classed in the same bracket as these two.


Thankfully we have a world cup this summer to sort the men from the boys.

NaiveMelodies

dreamers75 wrote: »

Thankfully we have a world cup this summer to sort the men from the boys.

Indeed. The wankfest will be interrupted.
For one, Ronaldo has been part and quite a big part of taking his country to a Euro Final.
Messi has only shown bare glimpses of his Barca form for his country, you could blame Maradona, or you could blame the fact that no 2 midfielders will be as creative and provide the oppurtunities of Xavi or Iniesta.
It should be great though, and I hope Messi can do for his country as Ronaldo has done for Portugal.

bernardo mac

I would like to see Ronaldo behave as a "Man".He may then become an even greater footballer and sportsman

mayordenis

only1stevo wrote: »

Indeed. The wankfest will be interrupted.
For one, Ronaldo has been part and quite a big part of taking his country to a Euro Final.
Messi has only shown bare glimpses of his Barca form for his country, you could blame Maradona, or you could blame the fact that no 2 midfielders will be as creative and provide the oppurtunities of Xavi or Iniesta.
It should be great though, and I hope Messi can do for his country as Ronaldo has done for Portugal.

Aye Messi is lucky to have Xavi and Iniesta giving him all those tap-ins on a plate.

Liam O

Warper wrote: »

I remember this time last year, according to a lot of Man Utd fans and PL fans that Ronaldo was a better player than Messi and Barca would barely finish in the Top 4 in the PL :rolleyes:

:pac: I'll take it you have some evidence of this, some people just have selective memories because nobody in there right mind would say that.

Messi has been slightly better this season, they were about even last season with Messi maybe edging it and Ronaldo was better the season before. There's not much between them now and Ronaldo has a lot of attributes that Messi doesn't and vice versa...

NaiveMelodies

mayordenis wrote: »

Aye Messi is lucky to have Xavi and Iniesta giving him all those tap-ins on a plate.

Well its gotta be one of the reasons for his lack of success at international level?

NaiveMelodies

Liam O wrote: »

:pac: I'll take it you have some evidence of this, some people just have selective memories because nobody in there right mind would say that.

Messi has been slightly better this season, they were about even last season with Messi maybe edging it and Ronaldo was better the season before. There's not much between them now and Ronaldo has a lot of attributes that Messi doesn't and vice versa...

Id have to agree with that.
And i think most people would if Messi and Ronaldo had the same personality.

Peyton Manning

only1stevo wrote: »

Well its gotta be one of the reasons for his lack of success at international level?

There's a much bigger, heavier, overweight reason than that.

The_Kew_Tour

Warper wrote: »

I remember this time last year, according to a lot of Man Utd fans and PL fans that Ronaldo was a better player than Messi and Barca would barely finish in the Top 4 in the PL :rolleyes:

GTFO seriously I dont think any United fan with half a brain taught that.:rolleyes:

NaiveMelodies

Archimedes wrote: »

There's a much bigger, heavier, overweight reason than that.

Ha, but if Messi is the all doing, all creating, all mastering player that he is, no object, no matter how large that object is, should be able to stop him.

Spiritoftheseventies

only1stevo wrote: »

Indeed. The wankfest will be interrupted.
For one, Ronaldo has been part and quite a big part of taking his country to a Euro Final.
Messi has only shown bare glimpses of his Barca form for his country, you could blame Maradona, or you could blame the fact that no 2 midfielders will be as creative and provide the oppurtunities of Xavi or Iniesta.
It should be great though, and I hope Messi can do for his country as Ronaldo has done for Portugal.

Thought Ronaldo was a bit disappointing in Euro 2008. Maybe he has fared better for his country but dont think there is any doubt whatsoever who best player is in world at the moment. The fact that Messi was being hailed as possibly one of the greatest if not the player ever says a lot.

Ush1

only1stevo wrote: »

Indeed. The wankfest will be interrupted.
For one, Ronaldo has been part and quite a big part of taking his country to a Euro Final.
Messi has only shown bare glimpses of his Barca form for his country, you could blame Maradona, or you could blame the fact that no 2 midfielders will be as creative and provide the oppurtunities of Xavi or Iniesta.
It should be great though, and I hope Messi can do for his country as Ronaldo has done for Portugal.

Serious waffle here.

Messi took his team to the final of the Copa America and was a huge part of that also a gold medal in the olympics.

The idea that anybody would aspire to be like a Portugal side that hasn't won anything?

And yes, anybody with eyes would blame Maradona for the entire Argie team underperforming, not just Messi.

eZe^

Liam O wrote: »

Messi has been slightly better this season, they were about even last season with Messi maybe edging it and Ronaldo was better the season before. There's not much between them now and Ronaldo has a lot of attributes that Messi doesn't and vice versa...

Rofl, when Messi has a 38 goal season and wins 6 trophies being the star of his team he is on par with Ronaldo the same season. And this year Messi breaks the 40 goal mark playing the best football of his life yet he has only been slightly better. Take your head out of your as* tbh, I get the dislike for Messi with the fanboys, but he has beens significantly out performing Cristiano over the past two years.

And seeing as stats don't tell you everything. C. Ronaldo is the star/ figurehead of his side and tends to stifle the players around him (watch Kaka this year and Wayne Rooney for proof), Messi has the opposite effect on his team. The Clasicos were good examples too, his team mates were almost afraid to think for themselves instead of lumping him the ball.

I try to stay out of these arguments as much as possible, because they inevitably become statistical wars, I just think it's plain to see when you watch them both that Messi is the more all round special player. Ronaldo is amazing, but I think Messi has been on another stratosphere come the business end of the past 2 seasons. Anyway, that's pretty much the last I'll say about.

redout

eZe^ wrote: »

Rofl, when Messi has a 38 goal season and wins 6 trophies being the star of his team he is on par with Ronaldo the same season. And this year Messi breaks the 40 goal mark playing the best football of his life yet he has only been slightly better. Take your head out of your as* tbh, I get the dislike for Messi with the fanboys, but he has beens significantly out performing Cristiano over the past two years.

+1

Lads, even the Madrid press (Marca, AS) which I read daily refer to Messi as the worlds best and most certainly above Ronaldo - now when Real Madrids own mouthpieces admit it on a regular basis there aint much doubting tbh.

In Spain as far as the media in general are concerned - Messi es el número uno - and that is a country which has more Real Madrid supporters than Barca. Not only that but Marca have conducted polls were even the Real Madrid supporters agree Messi is the best!

#15

eZe^ wrote: »

And seeing as stats don't tell you everything. C. Ronaldo is the star/ figurehead of his side and tends to stifle the players around him (watch Kaka this year and Wayne Rooney for proof),

I disagree - Kaka has not been near his best for quite some time before he ever went to the Bernabeu.
Rooney was a victim of Ronaldos and Utds success, from an individual perspective. Its really irrelevant if Rooney was stifled because the team was so dominant.

Messi has the opposite effect on his team.

Ronaldo had a positive effect on his team. 3 straight titles, 1 CL.

I would 'stifle' any player if it meant Utd could continue in that vein.

The Clasicos were good examples too, his team mates were almost afraid to think for themselves instead of lumping him the ball.

That's not Ronaldos fault, they're just a poor team in comparison to Barcelona. Madrid are a disjointed unit, I don't see how Ronaldo can be blamed for that.

I try to stay out of these arguments as much as possible, because they inevitably become statistical wars, I just think it's plain to see when you watch them both that Messi is the more all round special player. Ronaldo is amazing, but I think Messi has been on another stratosphere come the business end of the past 2 seasons. Anyway, that's pretty much the last I'll say about.

+1.

I very much agree with your conclusion, but I guess I just don't think its neccessary to try to denigrate either player when it comes a discussion about them.

I think its enough to say that Ronaldo is a great player but Messi has the edge on him.

eZe^

#15 wrote: »

+1.

I very much agree with your conclusion, but I guess I just don't think its neccessary to try to denigrate either player when it comes a discussion about them.

I think its enough to say that Ronaldo is a great player but Messi has the edge on him.

I agree, and I apologise if it seemed like I was trying to belittle Ronaldo, he is a fantastic player.

#15

eZe^ wrote: »

I agree, and I apologise if it seemed like I was trying to belittle Ronaldo, he is a fantastic player.

No need for apologies mate:)

Anyway, Paul McShane is better than both of them:D

gimmick

Just had a thought actually based on to ifs

If Real Madrid win the league and if Portugal win the World Cup with CR9 being an integral part, surely he would be more or less favourite for the WPOTY again??

flahavaj

gimmick wrote: »

Just had a thought actually based on to ifs

If Real Madrid win the league and if Portugal win the World Cup with CR9 being an integral part, surely he would be more or less favourite for the WPOTY again??

Given that these things seem to be based primarily on shiny trophies then possibly.

But anyone with an iota of sense knows who the real winner should be.


Plus Madrid aren't going to win La Liga, nor Portugal the WC.

Mitch Connor

IF that happened, along with Barcelona not winning the CL, then I reckon Messi would come second to Ronaldo in WPOTY. Whoever performs better in the WC is favourite imo, the world cup is winner is usually the decider.

gimmick

flahavaj wrote: »

Plus Madrid aren't going to win La Liga,

They aint going to drop any points for the remainder, Barca will, probably this Saturday away to Villareal. That will be that then.

pickarooney

Mitch Connor wrote: »

IF that happened, along with Barcelona not winning the CL, then I reckon Messi would come second to Ronaldo in WPOTY. Whoever performs better in the WC is favourite imo, the world cup is winner is usually the decider.

It's only April. Either or both could suffer an injury (let's hope not) and let Damien Duff in to pick up the gong.

Spiritoftheseventies

Some of us are trying to forget Ronaldo. Buy an inflatable ronaldo doll or move on

SlickRic

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Buy an inflatable ronaldo doll

Dear God, that image stirred up the lunch in my stomach.

eagle eye

Messi is out on his won as the best player in the world, well clear of Ronaldo who is probably the second best although Xavi has to be considered too.