Formula 1 2010: Round 4 China

lord lucan

Hulkenbergs gamble didn't pay off!:pac:

Shane732

Surely Schumacher has to be suffering because of the car. He's been able to get in front of the pack twice with his quick thinking in relation to stops but the car has just let him down.

amacachi

What's everyone think about Button at the restart? I can see nothing wrong with what he did, he was perfectly consistent, it's not like he flew halfway down the straight then stamped on the brake peddle.

lord lucan

amacachi wrote: »

What's everyone think about Button at the restart? I can see nothing wrong with what he did, he was perfectly consistent, it's not like he flew halfway down the straight then stamped on the brake peddle.

Didn't look like anything wrong in my eyes,i've seen more aggressive holding of the pack over the years.

amacachi

Looking like it could be Hamilton's race, lot faster than Button at the moment.

amacachi

Go on the Button!

Grim.

well done Button and great finish by petrov

Grim.

my god leggard truly is an awful commentator nearly as bad as Carlton Kirby

Superbus

Superbus wrote: »

If it does rain - Sutil ftw .

...or not. That's cool too.

Button made the right calls, a deserving winner.

How Hamilton ended up 2nd, I'll never know - a very ragged performance. Two indiscretions in the pits, all out moving up the field, an odd race for him.

It's not looking good for Schumacher - Rosberg is easily outperforming him, and he made the wrong call at the start today to come in for inters. It's getting beyond the point where we can keep making excuses. Nick Heidfeld should keep himself prepared.

I was delighted for Petrov - finishing 7th despite a spin, two places behind Kubica, is really a stellar drive. He could become a good midfield Trulli-esque driver.

Finally, kudos to Kovalainen - running 6th at one point, and ended up half a minute ahead of the bumbling Hulkenberg. Impressive stuff from Lotus, who seem to be by far the most capable of the new teams.


It'll be interesting to see how the teams shake up with new developments at Catalunya, where usually a clear order is visible. That is, if the circus is ever able to leave China.

EvilMonkey

Good race,
Button ahead of Hamilton

Alonso lucky with the safety car for nothing, Looks like he enjoyed his stint on Massa's tyre pressures. Cheeky move.

Hamilton should have had a penalty for not conceding to Vettel in the pitlane before the race ended, since they waited until after the race a reprimand is fair enough i guess but i don't see why they couldn't make the decision straight away its pretty clear he was only half in the lane. Vettel was cheeky too moving over but he had the position.

frostie500

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Alonso lucky with the safety car for nothing

Have to say I'm getting properly pissed off with how often the safety car is being deployed. The second one was as you say for nothing. That should have been cleared under double waved yellows. Drivers like Alonso and Hamilton who were nowhere suddenly were at the sharp end.

I remember in the past lots of fans bemoaned CART/Indy Cars for using the safety car to artificially bunch the field up but that is exactly what the decision to release the safety car today did

Cookie_Monster

race control was pretty dissapointing all round today. Hamilton should have been penalised both on the way into and out of pits, the saftey car release at last corner between Vettel, Hami and Webber should have at least been investigated as it looked pretty dodgy.

safety car should definitly not been deployed the second time.

Frank Bullitt

Its like there is an American in charge of the races with all the drama, I really want a normal race please,sick of rain now!!!:rolleyes:

lendrew1

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

race control was pretty dissapointing all round today. Hamilton should have been penalised both on the way into and out of pits, the saftey car release at last corner between Vettel, Hami and Webber should have at least been investigated as it looked pretty dodgy.

safety car should definitly not been deployed the second time.

It's not the FIA's fault. There's no rules regarding how you enter the pitlane and the incedent between Webber, Hamilton and Vettel took place after the Safety Car line so it was under green flags.

cadaliac

Grim. wrote: »

my god leggard truly is an awful commentator nearly as bad as Carlton Kirby

So true, he dropped some awful clangers. "David Coultard, who often came wheel to wheel with Michael Schumcher, and came out the better" WTF?
Another one when he couldn't say Merc sls, he just got it all wrong and bumbled some rubbish.
Another one when the front defuser went under a car on the entry to the pits - " its gone under he back of the car, oh no, its the front" Jesus christ is he blind?
There were several other beauties too, I can't remember them all.
He is shocking alright.

EvilMonkey

Gintonious wrote: »

Its like there is an American in charge of the races with all the drama, I really want a normal race please,sick of rain now!!!:rolleyes:

Don't worry Barcelona is next!

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Don't worry Barcelona is next!

Pity it wasn't this weekend, quite a bit of rain about I think.

cooker3

amacachi wrote: »

Pity it wasn't this weekend, quite a bit of rain about I think.

Can't have that. Spanish GP must be bone dry and extremely dull... I will never understand why they keep going back year after year.

amacachi

cooker3 wrote: »

Can't have that. Spanish GP must be bone dry and extremely dull... I will never understand why they keep going back year after year.

Can't blame them at the moment with Alonso drawing the crowds, but how it was there for so long before that I don't know. Someone must know something about Bernie. :pac:

RayM

cadaliac wrote: »

"David Coultard, who often came wheel to wheel with Michael Schumcher, and came out the better" WTF?

To be fair, in the 1998 season, he did beat Schumacher 'wheel-to-wheel' once or twice. Albeit in a car that was easily a second-and-a-half quicker than the Ferrari. :pac:

I don't find Legard as annoying as others seem to, but he's definitely not the best commentator they could have found. He rambles far too much, and Brundle doesn't seem to enjoy commentating with him. Ben Edwards would have been perfect.

mickdw

After having seen schumi today, I now believe that it is just down to not being comfortable with the car setup. I also think if he had simply lost an edge, he would be a genius in the wet still but that was certainly not true today. I think he will be back to his very best if he can find some speed soon & manage to ensure that the team stays properly behind him & doesnt just row in behind rosberg in developing the car.

Myrddin

I thought it was a brilliant race. Buttons strategy & risks paying off once again. There was so much pit activity, and hard to predict anything at all. Surprising to see Vettel being dropped by Webber off the line too.

Schui really needs to be giving it the all by the European leg. If he fails to deliver in Europe, then the cold hard truth must be that he will have "lost it". As it stands, Rosberg is consistently out performing him in a near identical car...so after the upgrades its time to deliver - and I dont say that lightly being a Schui fan!

PS - It was also a relief not to have to watch Vettels excessive finger pointing. He even has his engineer doing it now right into the camera - celebrating quali like a championship title, that cant be good luck.

frostie500

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Their is nothing wrong with him I hate all this talk of him loosing his edge, nonsense talk.

I'd be inclined to agree with you. I think that most of his issue is the car is illsuited to him. It seems like the car dictates to him how it will be driven and not the other way around. In Barcelona they should have a major upgrade and for it they surely will have listened to Schumi(it was developed in the test primarily so they wouldn't have listened to Rosberg as strongly as they would right now), so hopefully he can be comfortable in it.

Today he was driving very well prior to the second pace car and could have scored a lot of points without the deployment. The one thing that has changed about him though is that he is clearly very willing to talk to the media and seems a lot more relaxed now. It's great to see him so happy but if results don't take an upturn it will be viewed that he doesnt have the old steely determination that he used to have and that drove him to his maximum.

Mike Litoris

Brilliant race again. God I love rain!! How spoilt have we been since Bahrain.

Another cracking drive from Hamilton. Some great battles between him and Vettel. Button again made a great call and cruised to another win. Kudos to Renault too. Thought this season would be a disaster for them.

vectra

mickdw wrote: »

After having seen schumi today, I now believe that it is just down to not being comfortable with the car setup. I also think if he had simply lost an edge, he would be a genius in the wet still but that was certainly not true today. I think he will be back to his very best if he can find some speed soon & manage to ensure that the team stays properly behind him & doesnt just row in behind rosberg in developing the car.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

+1 Great post, that Merc looks like a dog to drive. He seems to be having huge amounts of turn in understeer and it looks like a complete handeful. Their is nothing wrong with him I hate all this talk of him loosing his edge, nonsense talk.

frostie500 wrote: »

I'd be inclined to agree with you. I think that most of his issue is the car is illsuited to him. It seems like the car dictates to him how it will be driven and not the other way around. In Barcelona they should have a major upgrade and for it they surely will have listened to Schumi(it was developed in the test primarily so they wouldn't have listened to Rosberg as strongly as they would right now), so hopefully he can be comfortable in it.

.

Looks as though it could be a dodgy chassis

Mercedes GP to replace Michael Schumacher's Formula 1 chassis for Spain

Michael Schumacher will not only have an upgraded Formula One car in Spain, it will also be a completely different chassis.

Mercedes' Norbert Haug suggested after the Chinese Grand Prix, where the seven time World Champion was comprehensively beaten all weekend by his team-mate, that the 41-year-old's actual chassis is carrying an inherent problem.


Rad here >> New Chassis for Schuie

Hope they find the issue

amacachi

Has to be something fixable, I refuse to believe that Schumi could be going as badly as he is. The car looked absolutely terrible coming out of slow speed corners and he was just burning his tyres up which isn't like him at all.

vectra

amacachi wrote: »

Has to be something fixable, I refuse to believe that Schumi could be going as badly as he is. The car looked absolutely terrible coming out of slow speed corners and he was just burning his tyres up which isn't like him at all.

Exactly,
He was basically a sitting duck..
Definately not his driving.

vectra

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Interesting a entire new chassis, normally only see that when somebody bends one.

Unless it was Tweaked all along or something?

vectra

LIGHTNING wrote: »

We will probably never find out, could have been a defect during manufacturing that only started showing recently.

Hope it is the case.
I would love to see him going well.

lendrew1

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Their is nothing wrong with him I hate all this talk of him loosing his edge, nonsense talk.

Agreed. He showed he still has his edge today with excellent overtaking and defensive driving, paticularly against Hamilton.

The problem is just that he cant find the speed. If you look at the onboard of him driving he's very cautious with the wheel and hesitant on the throttle. Compare this with his Ferrari days and he was much more agressive with the car, which is unlike what we are seeing with him do now.
This is beacause he isn't confident in a car that lacks front grip and Brawn has admitted that they have a weak front end. I also remember that the BAR/Honda car always tended to understeer so it's not surprising to see this car understeer like a barge.

Anyone writing off Schumacher now is stupid and we will have to wait and see if the upgrades from Mercedes work in Barcelona. You can't expect to walk into a new team and have a car that suits your style straight away, remember it took 4 years for Schumi to win his first championship at Ferrari, so don't be surprised to see him winning races soon.

Ghost Train

Interesting to hear about the new chassis for Schumacher for the next race. In some ways though if it doesn't help it might put more pressure on them. So maybe they shouldn't make too much of it as a fix. I think half way through the season would be the time to start worrying if he hasn't closed in around rosbergs times

kaizersoze

LIGHTNING wrote: »

We will probably never find out, could have been a defect during manufacturing that only started showing recently.

Rosberg's chassis seems fine.....
With the exception of driver setup and actual driver, would there be any difference between MS and NR chassis?

amacachi

kaizersoze wrote: »

Rosberg's chassis seems fine.....
With the exception of driver setup and actual driver, would there be any difference between MS and NR chassis?

That's the point being made, there may be something wrong with Schumi's, hence the new one.

kaizersoze

amacachi wrote: »

That's the point being made, there may be something wrong with Schumi's, hence the new one.

Surely they'd have spare chassis already manufactured and wouldn't need to wait for Spain to introduce it? If there was a major flaw with Schumi's chassis you can be sure he'd be in a new one already.


I've been reading of a major chassis upgrade for Spain which will basically mean a new car and all in the name of improving things for Schumi.
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/14312.html

I'd say Nico is happy with the current chassis though.:D

amacachi

kaizersoze wrote: »

Surely they'd have spare chassis already manufactured and wouldn't need to wait for Spain to introduce it? If there was a major flaw with Schumi's chassis you can be sure he'd be in a new one already.


I've been reading of a major chassis upgrade for Spain which will basically mean a new car and all in the name of improving things for Schumi.
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/14312.html

I'd say Nico is happy with the current chassis though.:D

Aye, it also could be that they've somehow managed to build a car which Schumacher can't get within half a second of his teammate in, which would be an outstanding achievement also.

sham69

I'm a huge Schumi and F1 fan in general.
I will be honest and say I am not very clued in on the technical aspect of it but it was weird watching Schumi getting passed so easily.
I have watched every race and there is definitely something not right , is it the car or the driver?
I honestly don't know.
Ross Brawn sounded puzzled when interviewed over the weekend.
Fair play to Rosberg he is only 10 points off the leader which is pretty good going.
I find it strange that if it is the chassis that it hasnt been sorted by now.
Really enjoyed the race and can't wait for the next one.
Mistake for Schumi to come back, maybe too early to tell and maybe I (like everyone else) is expecting too much too soon from him.

Oblomov

It;s normal practice to carry a spare 'tub' the main monocoque is a a relatively small part of the car.

The normal scrutineering checks carried out on all F1 cars would reveal any abnormal defects. Minor defects could be adjusted out to a degree. The Crash tests and the verification tests would also reveal any discrepancy in dimensions.

The quality control of all the processes from CAD/CAM design to baking to installation of all the suspension and engine components require strenuous attention to detail. I find it difficult to believe that Brawn would not have checked in the very first instance any feedback from MS as to a handling problem.

The chassis, suspension and mechanical guys would easily spot any adjustment that moved out of the normal parameters.

I take the comments about the Palmer Audi but again, it's not in the organisations interests to have a 'distorted' tub as replacement would become the onus of the organisers and not the offending driver. Again, on assembly, the techies will notice straight away any unusual setting on the suspension.

johnnysmack

LIGHTNING wrote: »

You can do as many checks as you want but sometimes errors do creep in just look at Buemi`s failure over the weekend. Although the main monocoque is a small part of the car remember its load bearing as everything bolts onto it. And without taking it back to the factory and doing some x-ray microdiffraction analysis on it you wouldnt be able to tell if it has any internal defects that wouldnt show visually.

This has gotten so technical, its brilliant!!! Keep going guys, im learning so much.

Oblomov

Any deformation of the tub, will result in a direct influence on the handling.. agreed... any internal weakness in the honeycomb structure will result in stress marking on the outer skin. Any failing of the aluminium honey will result on a external failing of the carbon fibre mat layers, the integrity of the outer 'casing' will be jeopardised and completely undermine the overall rigidity.

For ideal occupant safety, the deformation behaviour, the rigidity of the cell and the function of the restraint systems and the seats must be coordinated precisely with each other. The FIA was not satisfied with the standards already achieved and raised the level of the requirements a little higher before the 2006 season began by increasing the impact speed for the dynamic crash test of the rear area from 12 to 15 metres per second. That corresponds to an increase of 56 per cent in the impact energy on the rear crash structure, showing how much importance the FIA attaches to crash safety as reliable life insurance for the drivers.

The accuracy of chassis/tub measurements and measuring during the assembly I would doubt an inherent internal fault as against incorrectly positioned mounting point.

The reference to Buemi/ Torro Rosi upright faulure, this season has seen the introduction of aluminium against the previously used titanium and MMC. The present cast and machined is against the older type of machined and welded units. The point of failure is unknown and unlikely to be made public.

It is not kown if the unit was new cast and machined or part of a new batch.

Frank Bullitt

Either way Schumi didnt look happy after that, I really hope he gets it back, not that he has lost it but still.

Another storming drive by Alonso again today, driver of the season so far for me just ahead of Rosberg.

Cookie_Monster

Does anyone else think Rosberg under-performed in the race? I mean to only finish third from the strong lead position at one point, or was it just the car not being as good as the Mclaren

Mike Litoris

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Does anyone else think Rosberg under-performed in the race? I mean to only finish third from the strong lead position at one point, or was it just the car not being as good as the Mclaren

The car isn't as fast as the Macca, Ferrari or Red Bull. Says a lot that he's sitting in 2nd in the Championship. While doing nothing spectacular like Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel, he's been consistant and has maximised his position.

amacachi

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Does anyone else think Rosberg under-performed in the race? I mean to only finish third from the strong lead position at one point, or was it just the car not being as good as the Mclaren

Dude... seriously. He drove ridiculously well, one mistake and the McLarens being quite a bit faster than him once they needed to be.

frostie500

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Does anyone else think Rosberg under-performed in the race? I mean to only finish third from the strong lead position at one point, or was it just the car not being as good as the Mclaren

It's worth remembering that Rosberg was quite a distance-around 40 seconds if memory serves me right, I haven't had a chance to re watch the race yet, before the second safety car came out so he would have comfortably beaten Hamilton and finished second. If not for the mistake he would have given Button a great challenge as he was six seconds up the road when he went off. I know it's being harsh but as I said in the other thread about Rosberg when he has had his few opportunities to win he has made mistakes and finished lower than his race deserved. I know it was wet and he was the first on the road to that corner but he still made the mistake while Button didn't and the result was set in stone from that moment.

I know it's harsh to criticise him after a great race in what is clearly not the fastest car but he needs to get over the hump and win a race to dispell such talk in future because the Alonso's, Hamilton's, Schumacher's and lets be honest the Jenson Button's do not generally make these mistakes when they have a win on the line

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

Another storming drive by Alonso again today, driver of the season so far for me just ahead of Rosberg.

Alonso did nothing to resemble a storming drive.. It was the safety car brought him into play. Wasnt he 70 seconds behind or something at that point?
Still at his "Dirty pitlane tactics" as well..

pathway33

vectra wrote: »

Alonso.... Still at his "Dirty pitlane tactics" as well..

was the other one with his team-mate hamilton? Did alonso hold up ham? For some reason for the past few years I thought ham held up alonso

vectra

pathway33 wrote: »

was the other one with his team-mate hamilton? Did alonso hold up ham? For some reason for the past few years I thought ham held up alonso

Think you could be right there actually
My Bad.

pathway33

vectra wrote: »

Think you could be right there actually
My Bad.

No. Think you might be right . Thinking about it now wasn't it alonso delayed in the pits so that he could go later on the final run in qualifying and hamilton was queued up behind him?

edit: my bad >>>>>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6929333.stm

vectra

pathway33 wrote: »

No. Think you might be right . Thinking about it now wasn't it alonso delayed in the pits so that he could go later on the final run in qualifying and hamilton was queued up behind him?

edit: my bad >>>>>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6929333.stm

Ah,
Yes,
I was confused there a bit.
Thanks

IM0

Ze Germans (Mercedes) really need to tweak their drivers overall's colours, Rosberg just looked all wrong in the press conference, what were they thinking, they have 2 german drivers in a german car..and a haunting grey coloured uniform.