Players who changed football

dreamers75

Lot of young people post on here.

Pro. F

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Garrincha did that long before Henry was even born. Now there was a player, Pele was good but Garrincha often made him look ordinary, a show man of the highest order. Pele has often said he was the best player he ever played with and that he made it easy to play football. for Brazil.

Here's some things I've read and heard about Garrincha over the years:
He had a malformity in his legs that meant they were bent to the side, this helped him turn quickly when running; when away with the national team he used to spend all his time in the local brothels; he lost his virginity to a goat; in '58 he thought that the World Cup was a league format and didn't realise that the final was in fact the final until after they had won it; he had sex with his nurse on his death bed just before he died.

I'm guessing a lot of these were made up (especially about the goat), but either way, I've got to read this man's biography!

On Cryuff and total football, didn't he say that the Madrid team of Puskas, di Stefano et al. were the original inspiration for the dutch?

yabadabado

Pro. F wrote: »

Here's some things I've read and heard about Garrincha over the years:
He had a malformity in his legs that meant they were bent to the side, this helped him turn quickly when running; when away with the national team he used to spend all his time in the local brothels; he lost his virginity to a goat; in '58 he thought that the World Cup was a league format and didn't realise that the final was in fact the final until after they had won it; he had sex with his nurse on his death bed just before he died.

I'm guessing a lot of these were made up (especially about the goat), but either way, I've got to read this man's biography!

On Cryuff and total football, didn't he say that the Madrid team of Puskas, di Stefano et al. were the original inspiration for the dutch?

his biography is a cracking read ,possibly alot of BS in it tho.

There is so shocking names been mentioned in this thread

mayordenis

John Barnes

Brought the taboo issue of racism in football to the fore, and was iconic in quite literally kicking it out of the game.

davyjose

Seaneh wrote: »

[
Arsen Wenger
Brought English out of the dark ages of kick and chase. football, the EPL still has a long way to go before technique based players are more common than physique based players but before venger, if you weren't a big lump and couldn't jump with your elbows, you weren't a striker in england, end of.

Bullsh!t. Arsene Wenger is cited by too many people with short memories for the great football he brought to England. Manchester United had guys like Giggs, Cantona, Kanchelskis - players with untold class, verve, ability and skill - long before Wenger got the plane from Japan.
We were the team of the 90's. Wenger merely posed a half decent challenge now and again.

Mr Alan

lol at the Arsenal and Utd fans bickering about who invented beautiful football in England

dreamers75

davyjose wrote: »

Bullsh!t. Arsene Wenger is cited by too many people with short memories for the great football he brought to England. Manchester United had guys like Giggs, Cantona, Kanchelskis - players with untold class, verve, ability and skill - long before Wenger got the plane from Japan.
We were the team of the 90's. Wenger merely posed a half decent challenge now and again.

god dont why im posting again on this with so many kids posting the likes of cantona as players who changed football.


Anyway to the post i quoted, everyone of the super man utd players you posted took a touch before passing or scoring. Thats neither class or verve or ability or skill, they took a touch before controlling the ball. You need to see more football.

Good players dont take a touch.

davyjose

dreamers75 wrote: »

god dont why im posting again on this with so many kids posting the likes of cantona as players who changed football.


Anyway to the post i quoted, everyone of the super man utd players you posted took a touch before passing or scoring. Thats neither class or verve or ability or skill, they took a touch before controlling the ball. You need to see more football.

Good players dont take a touch.

What a stupid, stupid post. Tbh I think anyone who doesn't pay Cantona his dues is the kid. He was the most important player in english football in the early years of the premiership. Himself and Bergkamp opened the doors to the type of World class that seperated the premiership from the old 1st div.

Secondly "Good players dont take a touch." Are you aware of how ridiculous a thing to say that is? Look at this vid. He shoots first time in half of them, for a start. And the ones he does take a touch in, only serve to underline how much of a clue you don't have, with that statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etAwiDwZHQc

Paparazzo

Seaneh wrote: »

Paolo Maldini.

The Arch-typical all around defender. He was as comfortable breaking up and winning possession as he was taking the ball forward and launching an attack. Had the ability to play any where in defence and even played left mid and center mid a few times rather well.
The epitome of what a modern professional footballer should strive to be.

Paul Breitner, Andreas Brehme. Maldini was class, but not a world first who changed football.

Seaneh wrote: »

Andrea Pirlo
IMHO the best passer of the ball in the world bar none. The person who made the deep laying play maker his own more than any other player in the world. A lot of people would argue that Fernando Redondo, Pep Guardiola or even Demetrio Albertini were already doing the job Pirlo did over 10 years before him but they were very different players. Albertini played a lot further forward and for all their Vision and style, Guardiola and Redondo were nowhere near the vision and passing range of Andrea.
He is the player Xavi, Carrick, Alonso, Pizzaro et al are moulded from and IMHO he is still streets ahead of them all for sheer passing range and vision.

Carlos Valderrama, Jan Molby! As above, great player, but not a first.

Seaneh wrote: »

Marcel Desailly
Changed English football's idea of what a defender should be. Before him being a Cb ment being big and strong and good in the air. The rock is the player Rio Ferdinand, Ricardo Carvalho, Gabriel Milito wish they could be and the player Lillian Thuram tried to be.
Athlough Players like Nesta, were better players than him and made an impact in other places, none of they changed the culture of a footballing nation like he did.

Ronald Koeman, Franz Beckenbauer,

pickarooney

dreamers75 wrote: »

god dont why im posting again on this.

I can't figure it out either. That's two posts with 0 contribution other than to inform us of the fact that you are old. Maybe you can regale us with tales of watching Cliff Bastin inventing the winger-as-forward position, watched from the tuppeny-ha'penny seats, in black and white, when it was all fields and the youth had respect for their elders?

Helenio Herrera, mentioned already, developed the catenaccio system which revolutionised the defensive approach to the game.

Pro. F

I wouldn't be of the opinion that Cantona changed football or that Wenger brought the beautiful game to England or any of that, but this:

dreamers75 wrote: »

everyone of the super man utd players you posted took a touch before passing or scoring. Thats neither class or verve or ability or skill, they took a touch before controlling the ball. You need to see more football.

...is possibly one of the stupidest things i've ever read.

dreamers75

hhahah

Class posts lads really outdone yourselves with your legends and players who made a difference(and mocking of my posts :mad:0)

Sadly as it is always english centric on this site heres a something remind us all of what we watch.


barcelona 4 man united 0


Sadly none of the oppositon are mentioned here :rolleyes: Stoichkov touch control vision? :rolleyes:Romario clincal finishing? Guardiola for being Makele/Xavi :rolleyes: Ferrer for being a full back :rolleyes: Koeman defending :rolleyes:


good job fully exect gerrard to be nominated next.

mayordenis

Steven Gerrard

For showing Barton how to get away with it.

greendom

dreamers75 wrote: »

hhahah

Class posts lads really outdone yourselves with your legends and players who made a difference(and mocking of my posts :mad:0)

Sadly as it is always english centric on this site heres a something remind us all of what we watch.


barcelona 4 man united 0


Sadly none of the oppositon are mentioned here :rolleyes: Stoichkov touch control vision? :rolleyes:Romario clincal finishing? Guardiola for being Makele/Xavi :rolleyes: Ferrer for being a full back :rolleyes: Koeman defending :rolleyes:


good job fully exect gerrard to be nominated next.

Surely people can only talk from their opinion? What they have witnessed. Some may not have as great or as global opinion as others but that doesn't mean their point is any less valid

everdead.ie

Arthur Rowe for creating the pushand run style of football

Also Alf Ramsey

I think he created the 4-4-2 but I stand to be corrected

dreamers75

greendom wrote: »

Surely people can only talk from their opinion? What they have witnessed. Some may not have as great or as global opinion as others but that doesn't mean their point is any less valid

Well it does if they say Carlos is the 1st full back ever to run the line when countless other brazilians/fullbacks have made a fullback an attacking option 2 4 4 etc is from the 60s and still the most gratifying formation ever, every fan in the world agrees on that formation.

30 years ago players were doing and are recognised as being the 1st to do it. Carlos is not eh 1st to do it(using him as an example)

Peoples opinions on this site are based on people they see NOW. Doesnt mean it hasnt been done before.

eZe^

Seaneh wrote: »

Andrea Pirlo
IMHO the best passer of the ball in the world bar none. The person who made the deep laying play maker his own more than any other player in the world. A lot of people would argue that Fernando Redondo, Pep Guardiola or even Demetrio Albertini were already doing the job Pirlo did over 10 years before him but they were very different players. Albertini played a lot further forward and for all their Vision and style, Guardiola and Redondo were nowhere near the vision and passing range of Andrea.
He is the player Xavi, Carrick, Alonso, Pizzaro et al are moulded from and IMHO he is still streets ahead of them all for sheer passing range and vision.

Xavi is moulded from Pirlo, despite them being the same age? I call bullsh*t tbh.

UnitedIrishman

bamboozling wrote: »

A bit controversial but I would argue that Rene Higuita changed the way goalkeepers operate in the late 80's and early 90's. The way he acted as a sweeper and cleared any long ball over the top of the defence was unlike much of what had been seen beore as goalies routinely stuck to their line. Also his ball skills were the first point of attack as he could dribble up the field and then pick a pass to the wingers or even strikers. He really was ahead of his time.

Jan Jongbloed was doing it long before Higuita. He was the Dutch keeper in 1974 and was expected to act as an extra defender. The guy he kept out from the position, Schrijvers, was considered to be a better keeper - but Michels wanted Jongbloed starting because of his playing abilities and his passing range.

Trying to remember what Ajax player in the 60s-70s, think it was Blankenberg or Vasovic, but they basically invented the offside trap with a simple step forward before the ball was played.

Pro. F

dreamers75 wrote: »

Well it does if they say Carlos is the 1st full back ever to run the line when countless other brazilians/fullbacks have made a fullback an attacking option 2 4 4 etc is from the 60s and still the most gratifying formation ever, every fan in the world agrees on that formation.

30 years ago players were doing and are recognised as being the 1st to do it. Carlos is not eh 1st to do it(using him as an example)

Peoples opinions on this site are based on people they see NOW. Doesnt mean it hasnt been done before.

Your attitude stinks of trying desperately to look like the football lore master.

It's possible to disagree with people and put forward counter arguments without making sweeping generalisations about age, knowledge and what leagues people watch.

It's obvious that every thread is going to have people in it saying things that aren't correct but if you read this thread you will see people posting about the skill and importance of players from all sorts of eras and locations.

And in spite of your efforts to look clever you have actually managed to come out with total idiot statements like, for example, that Cantona and Giggs weren't skillfull players.

Dempsey

Jean Marc Bosman
Jimmy Hill
Rinus Michels
Beckenbauer
Cruyff
Pele
Maradona
Zidane
di Stefano

Players whos significance will come to fore in years to come
Platini - Financial Fair Play (I hope this makes the sport better/cheaper for fans)
Andy Webster - Webster Ruling Whilst not becoming as popular as Bosmans ruling, I reckon it could be exploited more by agents/players in years to come

dreamers75

Pro. F wrote: »

Your attitude stinks of trying desperately to look like the football lore master.

It's possible to disagree with people and put forward counter arguments without making sweeping generalisations about age, knowledge and what leagues people watch.

It's obvious that every thread is going to have people in it saying things that aren't correct but if you read this thread you will see people posting about the skill and importance of players from all sorts of eras and locations.

And in spite of your efforts to look clever you have actually managed to come out with total idiot statements like, for example, that Cantona and Giggs weren't skillfull players.

I aint trying to be anything i just disregard anyone who believes Cantona (hmm wasnt very good in europe ) or giggs (hmm i will play well when its contract time ) as ****ing PLAYERS WHO CHANGED FOOTBALL are actually players WHO CHANGED FOOTBALL!!!!

Cop the **** on and realise the posts you are defending.

Jazzy

Maradonna & Jurgen Klinsmann

Maradonna for having probably the most famous example of cheating in football history and Klinsmann for being the poster boy of diving back in the early 90s. Im not saying cheating and diving didnt exist before hand but these are probably 2 of the biggest examples in the past 20/30 years and considering how diving / 'simulation' is such a big part of the game nowadays I think these 2 could be worth a mention, which is unfortunate as I like Klinsmann and I think it was more sky and british coverage that gave him the 'diver' moniker.. what with him being german and all.
But Im just speaking from what I know, perhaps thats how people come up with these opinions and write these posts. ya know, makes sense

Pro. F

dreamers75 wrote: »

I aint trying to be anything i just disregard anyone who believes Cantona (hmm wasnt very good in europe ) or giggs (hmm i will play well when its contract time ) as ****ing PLAYERS WHO CHANGED FOOTBALL are actually players WHO CHANGED FOOTBALL!!!!

Cop the **** on and realise the posts you are defending.

I don't agree that they changed football either but you said this:

Anyway to the post i quoted, everyone of the super man utd players you posted took a touch before passing or scoring. Thats neither class or verve or ability or skill, they took a touch before controlling the ball. You need to see more football.

That is dumb

Bodhisopha

Amadeo Raúl Carrizo Larretape

The first goalkeeper to wear gloves. I googled it.

davyjose

dreamers75 wrote: »

I aint trying to be anything i just disregard anyone who believes Cantona (hmm wasnt very good in europe ) or giggs (hmm i will play well when its contract time ) as ****ing PLAYERS WHO CHANGED FOOTBALL are actually players WHO CHANGED FOOTBALL!!!!

Cop the **** on and realise the posts you are defending.

Nobody said giggs changed football. You said united had no skillful players, and I mentioned giggs. don't try to turn it round on others because you made the most ridiculous statement of the year.

Someone did mention Cantona, and i think there's a lot to argue for that players such as cantona (but also) Bergkamp and Zola had a huge influence on not only the style in which the english game was played, but also the sudden and overwhelming influx of very techincal foreign players.
this by extension shaped the european game.

That's the argument, but judging by your derisive, semi-coherent posts so far, I don't expect you to listen to it.

Dave!

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Amadeo Raúl Carrizo Larretape

The first goalkeeper to wear gloves. I googled it.

What a pussy!

thekid9

Irish FA

Making full use of the grandparent rule

Spiritoftheseventies

thekid9 wrote: »

Irish FA

Making full use of the grandparent rule

Did you mean the FAI. Irish FA refers to Northern Ireland

elius

Archimedes wrote: »

I'll prob get slated for it, but Frank Lampard is currently changing football. He might not be the best midfielder in the world, but his goalscoring record from that position is second to none, and will change what managers expect from those types of midfielders, perhaps even adjusting tactics to facilitate such a player.

If the truth be known i would have given this one to Scholes who did it for his country to..

elius

ole gunnar solskjaer
For being the Super Sub or Baby-Faced Assassin

pierrot

elius wrote: »

ole gunnar solskjaer
For being the Supper Sub

For those who had too much dinner?

Xavi6

elius wrote: »

ole gunnar solskjaer
For being the Super Sub or Baby-Faced Assassin

How did that change football? Teams didn't start leaving their best finisher on the bench to save him for the latter stages of games.

He may have changed individual matches but he did nothing to actually change football as a whole.

gandalf

Can't believe he hasn't been mentioned Jack Charlton for finally getting Ireland to the Euro & WC Finals and nearly failing me my Leaving Cert in 1988!!

iregk

Again I have to say this thread has decended into a "players i like" thread rather than its initial intention.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer! Frank Lampard! Come on. Even though I'm a huge fan of Lamps will we be saying in 20 or 30 years time he changed the way a midfield operates? No. He is simply a great player.

All the players I'd have listed have been mentioned so I'll go for a non player.

Jean Pierre Meersseman. Mean anything? Started working with Milan in the late 90's and then came up and created Milan Lab. Taking injury threatement, player physiology and fitness to a whole new level and thus extending the careers of many players. They have also helpded other non Milan players recover from injury such as Arjen Robben, Bastien Schweinsteiger and Fabio Cannavaro.

#15

dreamers75 wrote: »

hhahah

Class posts lads really outdone yourselves with your legends and players who made a difference(and mocking of my posts :mad:0)

Sadly as it is always english centric on this site heres a something remind us all of what we watch.


barcelona 4 man united 0


Sadly none of the oppositon are mentioned here :rolleyes: Stoichkov touch control vision? :rolleyes:Romario clincal finishing? Guardiola for being Makele/Xavi :rolleyes: Ferrer for being a full back :rolleyes: Koeman defending :rolleyes:


good job fully exect gerrard to be nominated next.

You must not be as old as you think. No mention of Maradona's Barca getting a trouncing at Old Trafford.

dreamers75 wrote: »

Well it does if they say Carlos is the 1st full back ever to run the line when countless other brazilians/fullbacks have made a fullback an attacking option 2 4 4 etc is from the 60s and still the most gratifying formation ever, every fan in the world agrees on that formation.

30 years ago players were doing and are recognised as being the 1st to do it. Carlos is not eh 1st to do it(using him as an example)

Peoples opinions on this site are based on people they see NOW. Doesnt mean it hasnt been done before.

Well done on missing the point of my post. Have a read of it and you'll see how ridiculous your above comment is. Nowhere did I say Roberto Carlos was the first to do it.
Although given your other posts on this thread, I'm not surprised you've missed such a basic point.

Ironically enough, given the way you rail against Anglo-centric fans, it's usually Anglo-centric fans who fail to recognise the huge contribution of Carlos in raising the expectations and demands placed on modern full-backs.

Spiritoftheseventies

Kenny Dalglish. Scored 100 goals each side of the border. Guided Liverpool to double as player manager. Won titles with two different clubs.

Mr. Presentable

greendom wrote: »

CANTONA

I think he was an amazing player, but beyond his immediate impact at Leeds and Man U, he was the catalyst for the French revolution in the Premier League. Before him French players in England were virtually unheard of (Didier Six anyone)

after him the flood - to translate from French

How has that "changed football"? For crying out loud lads, Van der Sar? Schmeichel? Are ye daft?

It's not a chance to trumpet your favourite players, it's "who changed football". French people existed in football (and, yes, in England too) before Eric.

OP, good idea for a thread, and you have probably nailed most of the qualified players, sadly descended into the usual "my hero" crap.

Oh, Johnny Bosman, as you say, the most influential player ever.

AnCapaillMor

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Amadeo Raúl Carrizo Larretape

The first goalkeeper to wear gloves. I googled it.

Dimitri Kharin the first goalie to wear tracksuit trousers in an FA cup final, google pah!! there should be a georgehamiltonpedia or georgle.

Seriuosly Ferenc Puskas, remember reading about how the magnificent Magyars destroying england, england were baffled by the backheel, they even asked the ref could it be an illegal move.

Spiritoftheseventies

And as for a group of players, think the Brazil team of 1970 really transformed international football.

pickarooney

iregk wrote: »

Jean Pierre Meersseman. Mean anything? Started working with Milan in the late 90's and then came up and created Milan Lab. Taking injury threatement, player physiology and fitness to a whole new level and thus extending the careers of many players. They have also helpded other non Milan players recover from injury such as Arjen Robben, Bastien Schweinsteiger and Fabio Cannavaro.

I was trying to think who would best represent the notion that players can still continue at the top level into their late 30s. Good call.

The thread should probably be renamed 'people who changed football' but it's going that way anyway so no harm.

A guy called Horst Eckel was the first substitute ever to be used in professional football match, if I udnerstand Wikipedia corectly (and it's not telling fibs), plahing for Germany against Saarland (first time I heard of it being an independent country!).

Dave!

Mo Johnston maybe?

Spiritoftheseventies

Dave! wrote: »

Mo Johnston maybe?

And Sounness

Dempsey

AnCapaillMor wrote: »

Seriuosly Ferenc Puskas, remember reading about how the magnificent Magyars destroying england, england were baffled by the backheel, they even asked the ref could it be an illegal move.

He was an incredible talent but LOL at the thought of the England players surrounding the referee over a backheel!

SM01

Again not a player but he did play an important part in shaping the modern game. Ken Aston, a referee, was responsible for the introduction of the yellow card (caution) and red card (sending off) system.

AnCapaillMor

Dave! wrote: »

Mo Johnston maybe?

If he gets in Aaron Winter definately deserves in. A negroid jewish player who won over the Lazio fans.

fullstop

dreamers75 wrote: »

god dont why im posting again on this with so many kids posting the likes of cantona as players who changed football.

Well don't post here then :rolleyes:

Here might be more suited to you oh wise one.

dreamers75 wrote: »

Good players dont take a touch.

Possibly the dumbest statement I've ever read on here.

HalloweenJack

I'm going for that doctor in the States (Steadman?).

His surgery techniques have helped countless players recover from career-threatening injuries and given them a second chance. In the past, players with similar injuries had no option but to retire.

patmac

Dave! wrote: »

What a pussy!

Yeah but who was the first outfield player to wear gloves, now he was a real pussy?

elius wrote: »

ole gunnar solskjaer
For being the Super Sub or Baby-Faced Assassin

The first super sub I remember was David Faircough, who argubly changed football as he made managers aware of the impact substitutes would make.

Johnny Haynes first £100 a week footballer showed the ordinary man in the street that football was a career worth persuing.

Justin Fashanu whose tragic end increased awareness of gay footballers.

pickarooney

patmac wrote: »

Justin Fashanu whose tragic end increased awareness of gay footballers.

How many have come out of the closet since then though? Sadly, I don't think his death changed much at all.

Franz Beckenbauer, if he didn't invent it, as least brought the notion of a libero/sweeper to the world's attention.

Ardent

#15 wrote: »

Man Utd do not have a player in that role.

I think Makelele just made everyone in England take notice of a role/position that had already existed for years in other places - I don't think Makelele was the first of his kind.

Totally. Roy Keane/Didi Hamann/etc were performing similar roles long before Makalele came along.