Players who changed football

Spiritoftheseventies

Paulo di Canio
for this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWdf5ZLbtYo

AnCapaillMor

Before Paolo, the Robbie Fowler penalty incident at highbury all those years back. Had alot of respect for him after that, did'nt have much before that due to the 5 minute hat trick.

Ardent

I think Pepi Reina should get a mention for the way he has effectively revolutionised the role of goalkeeping - now you can be a goalkeeper AND a sweeper behind the back 4.

patmac

pickarooney wrote: »

How many have come out of the closet since then though? Sadly, I don't think his death changed much at all.
.

Possibly got rid of the communal bath;).

Dempsey

AnCapaillMor wrote: »

Before Paolo, the Robbie Fowler penalty incident at highbury all those years back. Had alot of respect for him after that, did'nt have much before that due to the 5 minute hat trick.

But I dont see how either incident changed football.

Vanbis

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I'm going for that doctor in the States (Steadman?).

Good call .

For me its Peter Schmeichel.

GLaDOS

Ardent wrote: »

I think Pepi Reina should get a mention for the way he has effectively revolutionised the role of goalkeeping - now you can be a goalkeeper AND a sweeper behind the back 4.

There's already been 2 goalkeepers mentioned for that who came way before Reina. Great 'keeper but he revolutionised nothing.

Agree with whoever said people are just mentioning players they like.

evil_seed

not a player, but whoever set up the french youth sytem that developed all the talent such as anelka, henry, trezeguet etc

Spiritoftheseventies

AnCapaillMor wrote: »

Before Paolo, the Robbie Fowler penalty incident at highbury all those years back. Had alot of respect for him after that, did'nt have much before that due to the 5 minute hat trick.

think it was three minutes for the hat trick. Joke going round at the time was things you could do in three minutes. boil an egg, score a hat-trick against Arsenal

Vanbis

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Agree with whoever said people are just mentioning players they like.

Just showing their age

evil_seed wrote: »

not a player, but whoever set up the french youth sytem that developed all the talent such as anelka, henry, trezeguet etc

Gerard Houllier but as if you didnt know :rolleyes:

Ardent

ScienceNerd wrote: »

There's already been 2 goalkeepers mentioned for that who came way before Reina. Great 'keeper but he revolutionised nothing.

Ah, I stand corrected - I just found this discussion you're talking about on page 5. Fair enough, I just hadn't seen that style of keeping in the premiership - or elsewhere for that matter - prior to Reina's arrival.

JPA

Matthias Sindelar.

Valeriy Lobanovskiy.

pickarooney

JPA wrote: »

Matthias Sindelar.

Had never heard of him before. Good story.

Dave!

Cristiano Ronaldo




/runs away :pac:

iregk

Dave! wrote: »

Cristiano Ronaldo




/runs away :pac:

This is going to get messi

event

greendom wrote: »

CANTONA

I think he was an amazing player, but beyond his immediate impact at Leeds and Man U, he was the catalyst for the French revolution in the Premier League. Before him French players in England were virtually unheard of (Didier Six anyone)

after him the flood - to translate from French

i think it was wenger really who took in french players.

what other french players played in the PL before wenger came?

The Davestator wrote: »

Not a Player - but Sam Aldardyce
why?
1. One of the first to fully utilise sports science, technology and training methods.
2. Because of his 'long ball tactics' and using crap players and old greats to stay in a division they have no business in.

elius wrote: »

ole gunnar solskjaer
For being the Super Sub or Baby-Faced Assassin

JPA

event wrote: »

i think it was wenger really who took in french players.

what other french players played in the PL before wenger came?

Ginola.

pickarooney

Franck LeBoeuf was either pre-Wenger or at the same time.

#15

Ardent wrote: »

Totally. Roy Keane/Didi Hamann/etc were performing similar roles long before Makalele came along.

Keane was a box-to-box player, more dynamic than Makelele. Their profiles are a bit different.

UnitedIrishman

evil_seed wrote: »

not a player, but whoever set up the french youth sytem that developed all the talent such as anelka, henry, trezeguet etc

Fernand Sastre - Clairefontaine in France was his brainchild. The world renowned academy that so many of the young French players come through.

davyjose

Xavi6 wrote: »

How did that change football? Teams didn't start leaving their best finisher on the bench to save him for the latter stages of games.

You're saying United didn't do it last season?

Spiritoftheseventies

Xavi6 wrote: »

How did that change football? Teams didn't start leaving their best finisher on the bench to save him for the latter stages of games.

He may have changed individual matches but he did nothing to actually change football as a whole.

agreed

flahavaj

The majority of replies to this thread are f*cking stupid tbh.

Andrea Pirlo?

Kenny Dalglish?

Ole Solskjaer?

WTF?

Spiritoftheseventies

flahavaj wrote: »

The majority of replies to this thread are f*cking stupid tbh.

Andrea Pirlo?

Kenny Dalglish?

Ole Solskjaer?

WTF?

What do you mean. Dalglish scores a 100 goals, probably the only player to manage a team while still playing and manage two different clubs. So yes he made a big impact

herbieflowers

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

What do you mean. Dalglish scores a 100 goals, probably the only player to manage a team while still playing and manage two different clubs. So yes he made a big impact

How has that changed football though?

People are by and large just picking their favourite players / club legends.

flahavaj

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

What do you mean. Dalglish scores a 100 goals, probably the only player to manage a team while still playing and manage two different clubs. So yes he made a big impact

That makes him a great goalscorer and he changed the histories of Liverpool and Celtic football clubs.

But the premise of the thread is not people who made a "big impact" as you say. If that were the case it woulld just become a list of players who were great footballers etc. He's hardly the only player manager ever.

The idea is people who changed football in general.

Someone like Herbert Chapman, the great Arsenal manager who was a true innovator, introducing numbered jersies and the "WM" 3-4-3 system of tactics would be far more apt.

Spiritoftheseventies

flahavaj wrote: »

That makes him a great goalscorer and he changed the histories of Liverpool and Celtic football clubs.

But the premise of the thread is not people who made a "big impact" as you say. If that were the case it woulld just become a list of players who were great footballers etc. He's hardly the only player manager ever.

The idea is people who changed football in general.

Someone like Herbert Chapman, the great Arsenal manager who was a true innovator, introducing numbered jersies and the "WM" 3-4-3 system of tactics would be far more apt.

Surely dalglish combining both player and manager roles and winning the double extended the possibilities of what a player could achieve

flahavaj

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Surely dalglish combining both player and manager roles and winning the double extended the possibilities of what a player could achieve

You're clutching at straws tbh.

Spiritoftheseventies

flahavaj wrote: »

You're clutching at straws tbh.

Dont know why everyone has to get so bleeding technical about everything. Half the posters going on about the person who invented the French youth system and jack charlton. Neither of whom have what this thread is about. We could be here all day discussing the merits of every single post if you want :rolleyes:

Borat_Sagdiyev

davyjose wrote: »

What a stupid, stupid post. Tbh I think anyone who doesn't pay Cantona his dues is the kid. He was the most important player in english football in the early years of the premiership. Himself and Bergkamp opened the doors to the type of World class that seperated the premiership from the old 1st div.

Secondly "Good players dont take a touch." Are you aware of how ridiculous a thing to say that is? Look at this vid. He shoots first time in half of them, for a start. And the ones he does take a touch in, only serve to underline how much of a clue you don't have, with that statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etAwiDwZHQc

Those goals he scored in that are all top class, but I can't stand the way that goal ( number 1 in the video ) is considered his best goal. It was against sunderland in a game they won something like 5-0, and they were 3 or 4 up at the time. Its easy to be trying that kind of stuff in those circumstances.

I would consider the one against arsenal where he spotted seaman backpeddling to be streets ahead because a) it finished 1-0 and b) IIRC it was a top of the table clash.

As for Cantona changing football, not sure about that one.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Helix

James Milner: The first person who could beat Chuck Norris in a fight to ever play professional football

TheDoc

For the English league, there is only one for me, Dennis Bergkamp.

His arrival to the English league didnt really hold much considering the disaster he had at Inter Milan. But his arrival at Arsenal co incided with a change in the clubs mental routine. He was the first piece in the jigsaw of perfect football for Arsene Wenger and my word did he do it for so many years.

I remember growing up playing football and you were always taught to hover the 6 yard box, be on the last defender and get ready to burst in, muscle your way to goal. When I first saw Dennis Bergkamp I saw something that was just beautiful and straight away new thats the way I wanted to play and its the way I tried for many years. He was the first link up man I ever saw and to this day still the best, Berbatov for me, oddly enough is the only person I'd rate close to him for ball control and ability to pass.

If they werent top class link up men, they'd be world class midfielders. Its actually shocking how similar they are and maybe its a trait to that role of players, moany, sulky, doesn't seem to put much effort in, but when the ball is at their feet they are devastating.

For me Dennis bergkamp changed the way the English league looked at the final third of the pitch, and it paved way for the arrival of similar players, but also the developement of good "footballing" centre halfs, who werent muscle and headers, but could read the game and combat this devastating weapon.



I'll never miss another player like I miss him

The best passer of the football I've ever seen.
The best control over a football I've ever seen.
Scored some of the best goals I've ever seen.

I didnt get the chance growing up to watch the likes of pele, maradona and the likes. But from my time watching football, he is easily the most talented and in my view the best player I ever watched playing football

flahavaj

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Dont know why everyone has to get so bleeding technical about everything. Half the posters going on about the person who invented the French youth system and jack charlton. Neither of whom have what this thread is about. We could be here all day discussing the merits of every single post if you want :rolleyes:

No need to get all p*ssy because you're wrong and got called on it.

The thred isn't "great players."

Its people who changed football.

If someone did want to discuss the merits of every single post they could, its their prerogerative on a discussion forum.

flahavaj

TheDoc wrote: »

For the English league, there is only one for me, Dennis Bergkamp.

His arrival to the English league didnt really hold much considering the disaster he had at Inter Milan. But his arrival at Arsenal co incided with a change in the clubs mental routine. He was the first piece in the jigsaw of perfect football for Arsene Wenger and my word did he do it for so many years.

I remember growing up playing football and you were always taught to hover the 6 yard box, be on the last defender and get ready to burst in, muscle your way to goal. When I first saw Dennis Bergkamp I saw something that was just beautiful and straight away new thats the way I wanted to play and its the way I tried for many years. He was the first link up man I ever saw and to this day still the best, Berbatov for me, oddly enough is the only person I'd rate close to him for ball control and ability to pass.

If they werent top class link up men, they'd be world class midfielders. Its actually shocking how similar they are and maybe its a trait to that role of players, moany, sulky, doesn't seem to put much effort in, but when the ball is at their feet they are devastating.

For me Dennis bergkamp changed the way the English league looked at the final third of the pitch, and it paved way for the arrival of similar players, but also the developement of good "footballing" centre halfs, who werent muscle and headers, but could read the game and combat this devastating weapon.



I'll never miss another player like I miss him

The best passer of the football I've ever seen.
The best control over a football I've ever seen.
Scored some of the best goals I've ever seen.

I didnt get the chance growing up to watch the likes of pele, maradona and the likes. But from my time watching football, he is easily the most talented and in my view the best player I ever watched playing football

Again, this is more a tribute to how great a player Bergkamp was (and he was, I loved him) but he didn't change football in general.

TheDoc

I'd argue he did. His impact on the English game was pretty obvious to see I thought. He was really, alongside a few others like Cantona, Zola, the influx of foreign player that had abilities converntional defences at the time couldnt manage.

It was unheard of a striker not running towards goal when their team was on the offensive. Bergkamp used this to his advantage and would drop into the gap created by defenders running towards their own goal, and would create or score.

Look at footage from the the year he joined the league, and every team you see attacking, the two strikers are back to play bursting to the goal.

I think he had a major impact on the game in England anyway. It was always a short pacey striker with a big lumbering ball winner, there was little or no "link up men" floating around at the time.

My view may be skewered cause im of a younger generation and I started watching football 2 or 3 years into the creation of the premiership. But I'm pretty sure he was the modern day founder of the " link up man" " man in the hole" that we see so regularly from strikers today who drop back to receive ball to feet.

I also think that his sucess led to other teams trying to find their own "bergkamp" and this in turn led to a rise in hte number of " game reading " centre halfs who there were not many at the time. Defenders that if they werent so good in the air, they'd be playing midfield.

flahavaj

TheDoc wrote: »

I'd argue he did. His impact on the English game was pretty obvious to see I thought. He was really, alongside a few others like Cantona, Zola, the influx of foreign player that had abilities converntional defences at the time couldnt manage.

It was unheard of a striker not running towards goal when their team was on the offensive. Bergkamp used this to his advantage and would drop into the gap created by defenders running towards their own goal, and would create or score.

Look at footage from the the year he joined the league, and every team you see attacking, the two strikers are back to play bursting to the goal.

I think he had a major impact on the game in England anyway. It was always a short pacey striker with a big lumbering ball winner, there was little or no "link up men" floating around at the time.

My view may be skewered cause im of a younger generation and I started watching football 2 or 3 years into the creation of the premiership. But I'm pretty sure he was the modern day founder of the " link up man" " man in the hole" that we see so regularly from strikers today who drop back to receive ball to feet.

I also think that his sucess led to other teams trying to find their own "bergkamp" and this in turn led to a rise in hte number of " game reading " centre halfs who there were not many at the time. Defenders that if they werent so good in the air, they'd be playing midfield.

Cantona played as a withdrawn striker in England years before Bergkamp signed for Arsenal. Even Peter Beardsley played there for Liverpool in the 80's.

And it was used on the continent countless times before that.

Either way saying that Bergkamp is responsible for the innovation of that particular position on the pitch or that he particularly changed football is just wrong.

GLaDOS

Also, changing English football is not changing football as a whole.

TheDoc

Coolio, mis understood the thread so, continue without me

(changed football for me though :P )

thusspakeblixa

Valeriy Lobanovskyi
Ferenc Puskas/Nandor Hidegkuti/ The Hungarian 'Golden Team'

Spiritoftheseventies

flahavaj wrote: »

No need to get all p*ssy because you're wrong and got called on it.

The thred isn't "great players."

Its people who changed football.

If someone did want to discuss the merits of every single post they could, its their prerogerative on a discussion forum.

Thing is you are pretty much calling me up on every post. Gets a bit annoying after awhile flah. Spread the love around if you know what im saying :rolleyes:

herbieflowers

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Thing is you are pretty much calling me up on every post. Gets a bit annoying after awhile flah. Spread the love around if you know what im saying :rolleyes:

In fairness you called up Archimedes for nominating Lampard. You did post about the Brazil team of 1970, which was valid but the rest I don't think warrant the title of having changed football.

Francis, Dalglish, Souness, di Canio all had an impact, as you've shown, but to say they've changed football in the way that say, Johann Cruyff has, is misguided.

Spiritoftheseventies

herbieflowers wrote: »

In fairness you called up Archimedes for nominating Lampard. You did post about the Brazil team of 1970, which was valid but the rest I don't think warrant the title of having changed football.

Francis, Dalglish, Souness, di Canio all had an impact, as you've shown, but to say they've changed football in the way that say, Johann Cruyff has, is misguided.

Well I think what Di Canio did (moreover than Fowler) is that he forsook the chance of goal when he deliberately picked up player so that an injured player could be attended to.
It was an unbelievable piece of sportsmanship and in a game where we see players trying to con refs with false dives and trying to get their fellow players sent off, his action, reminded players about the true spirit of the game.

herbieflowers

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Well I think what Di Canio did (moreover than Fowler) is that he forsook the chance of goal when he deliberately picked up player so that an injured player could be attended to.
It was an unbelievable piece of sportsmanship and in a game where we see players trying to con refs with false dives and trying to get their fellow players sent off, his action, reminded players about the true spirit of the game.

That's fair enough, but how has that affected football in the meantime?

GLaDOS

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Well I think what Di Canio did (moreover than Fowler) is that he forsook the chance of goal when he deliberately picked up player so that an injured player could be attended to.
It was an unbelievable piece of sportsmanship and in a game where we see players trying to con refs with false dives and trying to get their fellow players sent off, his action, reminded players about the true spirit of the game.

But it didn't catch on, therefore didn't change football

Spiritoftheseventies

herbieflowers wrote: »

That's fair enough, but how has that affected football in the meantime?

Im quite sure that some manager somewhere watched that incident and took note of it. Again we could go through this thread with a fine toothcomb. Did Charlton (the manager) change the face of football I dont know. Did Bergkamp change football I dont know. He raised the bar for strikers but not sure if that is same thing. We could be here all day.

Jazzy

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Dont know why everyone has to get so bleeding technical about everything.

em, and why shouldnt they? it adds depth and hopefully tells you something you dont know.

eric cantona didnt change football
neither did dalglish

in fact what dalglish did prove was immense pressure and the weight of the world can knock anyone from the top. he was almost burnt out completely by the end of the liverpool days. giving so much for so long is bound to impact mentally and physically and hes a very good example of the late 80s / early 90s approach to football by the media. the microscope was coming in tighter and now today look where we are

you cant just list off a string of heroes from whatever clubs in the hopes that one of them will apply to the topic. if you make a balls up of a post expect to be called on it

flahavaj

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Thing is you are pretty much calling me up on every post. Gets a bit annoying after awhile flah. Spread the love around if you know what im saying :rolleyes:

You had no bother saying others' suggestions were unsuitable.

You're wrong, accept it and move on, its no big deal.

herbieflowers

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Im quite sure that some manager somewhere watched that incident and took note of it. Again we could go through this thread with a fine toothcomb. Did Charlton (the manager) change the face of football I dont know. Did Bergkamp change football I dont know. He raised the bar for strikers but not sure if that is same thing. We could be here all day.

Justifying it in thaat way is pure speculation though. The Charlton and Bergkamp posts were, in different ways, misinformed. But there are nailed-on football "changers", like your Cruyffs, Champans, etc. And we know this from the way in which the game developed over time. It's less obvious how di Canio or Souness, for instance, altered football in this same sense.

flahavaj

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Im quite sure that some manager somewhere watched that incident and took note of it. Again we could go through this thread with a fine toothcomb. Did Charlton (the manager) change the face of football I dont know. Did Bergkamp change football I dont know. He raised the bar for strikers but not sure if that is same thing. We could be here all day.

In my first post I listed several suggestions that I thought were boll*x. My apologies if it wasn't comprehensive enoiugh for you.

We WILL be here all day if people don't actually think before they post tbh.;)