FANTASY FOOTBALL 2010 **Draft Times in OP**

eagle eye

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

It is in its **** up to the prem league to decide. It's up to all members involved through all leagues decide.

Why should it have anything to do with the other leagues. We that have been in the league for a couple of years extended the league out of courtesy and allowed others the chance to become involved last year by adding a promotion/relegation system. We then extended it to 16 teams this year to allow more people to become involved. Its up to the people that are in the Prem League to decide which way it is going to go as there was no agreement to extend it beyond two teams being relegated before it started.

Eire-Dearg

Of course everyone should have a say in what happens. If you're using a promotion/relegation system with different leagues, it's ridiculous not to.

eagle eye

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Of course everyone should have a say in what happens. If you're using a promotion/relegation system with different leagues, it's ridiculous not to.

But we in the Prem League just added that in last year out of courtesy. There are a lot of people involved this year but the experience we have had is that loads of them don't bother coming back the next year. We know for certain that nearly all of the guys in the Prem League will be back next year if not all of them.

Dodge

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Of course everyone should have a say in what happens. If you're using a promotion/relegation system with different leagues, it's ridiculous not to.

particularly when the Prem/First division split last year was based PURELY on who said they'd join up first.

TO and Lighning Bolt ran the leagues and this year it was expanded.

BTW I'd have no problem in league managers like Lightning Bolt and Raoul getting autmoatically promoted too (if they wished) as a thank you for running the leagues

Dohnny Jepp

Out of courtesy? are you having a laugh? Boards.ie laegues, for boards.ie members. Maybe if it was "eagle eyes elitest league", then you could do wahtever you want. But these leagues are being run under the boards.ie banner therefore all of us who are involved have a say in what happens.

Eire-Dearg

eagle eye wrote: »

But we in the Prem League just added that in last year out of courtesy. There are a lot of people involved this year but the experience we have had is that loads of them don't bother coming back the next year. We know for certain that nearly all of the guys in the Prem League will be back next year if not all of them.

That's bull****. It's either an AF Forum wide league or it's not.

D3PO

My view is it should be 4 up (conference winners) and 4 down (bottom of each conference)

I dont agree relegation should be based on your 1 - 16 ranking because promotion isnt based that way. So you should have the same rules for both promotion and relegation.

Any inactives should be chucked down to div 3 and any remaining spots higher up the food chain then taken up by the next best teams in each div.

The aim should be a fully active fully competitive setup across all the leagues. Having 4 go down keeps something to play for for every team even when out of playoff contention.

Personaly speaking I only want to play in a competitive league. Where everybody is playing to win by logging on regularly. Weather that be in the "Prem" or "DIV 3" doesnt bother me.

Lets not get an ego here people these divisions are not setup to reflect your status in Fantasy football land, more when you joined the competition. Some people seem to be acting like they are losing prestiege if they get relegated out of their division :eek::eek:

Raoul

D3PO wrote: »

My view is it should be 4 up (conference winners) and 4 down (bottom of each conference)

I dont agree relegation should be based on your 1 - 16 ranking because promotion isnt based that way. So you should have the same rules for both promotion and relegation.

Any inactives should be chucked down to div 3 and any remaining spots higher up the food chain then taken up by the next best teams in each div.

The aim should be a fully active fully competitive setup across all the leagues. Having 4 go down keeps something to play for for every team even when out of playoff contention.

Personaly speaking I only want to play in a competitive league. Where everybody is playing to win by logging on regularly. Weather that be in the "Prem" or "DIV 3" doesnt bother me.

Lets not get an ego here people these divisions are not setup to reflect your status in Fantasy football land, more when you joined the competition. Some people seem to be acting like they are losing prestiege if they get relegated out of their division :eek::eek:

Pretty much agree with this 100%. (Y)

We basically want as much competitiveness as possible. And to do this we should have 4 up and 4 down. And inactive players should be taken out altogether and have to reapply next year. If people don't show up next year than we simply look at the ranking system and take them out. Not a big problem and it will make for the most competitive leagues.

poldebruin

D3PO wrote: »

My view is it should be 4 up (conference winners) and 4 down (bottom of each conference)

I dont agree relegation should be based on your 1 - 16 ranking because promotion isnt based that way. So you should have the same rules for both promotion and relegation.

Any inactives should be chucked down to div 3 and any remaining spots higher up the food chain then taken up by the next best teams in each div.

The aim should be a fully active fully competitive setup across all the leagues. Having 4 go down keeps something to play for for every team even when out of playoff contention.

Personaly speaking I only want to play in a competitive league. Where everybody is playing to win by logging on regularly. Weather that be in the "Prem" or "DIV 3" doesnt bother me.

Lets not get an ego here people these divisions are not setup to reflect your status in Fantasy football land, more when you joined the competition. Some people seem to be acting like they are losing prestiege if they get relegated out of their division :eek::eek:

This hits the nail on the head for me, I was under the impression of 4 up, 4 down also, quite a few posts discussing how best to achieve this a few pages ago.

The main thing for me about 4u4d would be a concentration of the serious players in the top few Divisions - I'm not fussed what Division I play in, just that there's 16 committed players.

I noticed there is a 3rd/4th playoff in Div 2 - we could split the difference and say 3 lowest ranked teams get promoted/relegated. 3 from 16 seems a reasonable amount.

fisgon

I want to agree with those calling for 4 up 4 down. I'm in Div 1, with a 7-7 record, ranked 7, so it won't effect me directly, but i do think it's good to have more movement and something to add more interest right up til the end of the season.

Also, I think we all should have a say, and agree a common system across the divisions. This idea of the decisions being made by a select few does not sit well.

kev_s88

honestly im confused as to most of what is going on here. just read through the last 5 pages of posts, and i dont know what sort of power trip eagle_eye is trying to be on, but it is simply not up to him to decide.....a) what format the league promotion/relegation takes, and b) who should decide how it will be decided. all this courtesy nonsense you're coming out with is pure bs! we're not like some sort of feudal system were only the highest class (Prem) get to decide whats what. the other leagues werent just created to make extra numbers, if we wanted to keep it to an elite Premier League we could have told the others to create their own league. but no, this is a boards system of fantasy football, and boards.ie fantasy football members decide, not just the Premier League

i put it to all leagues that a vote is taken in the fantasy forum of the Prem, Div 1, Div 2 and Div 3. give active members til the close of game time this weekend to vote, and then take the result from there. then we have our fair decision as to the number of promotion/relegation places

Peyton Manning

The idea that the league was extended beyond the Prem Division as a courtesy is a bit of a joke to be honest. The league was extended because:

a) Interest in the sport is ballooning
b) More people are signing up to Boards
c) As a result, the AF forum gets more exposure
d) Fantasy Football is becoming more popular

All those factors added up to the fact that more and more people were interested, so more leagues were opened up. Eagle Eye, you didn't have anything to do with the formation or management of Division 1, 2 or 3 so how you can claim it's something you or anyone else has extended as a courtesy is laughable.

This may be a bit out there, but would a Fantasy Football sub forum for the American Football forum be completely out of the question if we petitioned for it? It would allow us to create threads for specific rule changes, allow us to take polls of how people think the rules would work, each division could have it's own general discussion thread, and then there are other discussion threads that would no doubt pop up. It just seems slightly tricky having to arrange everything in this one thread here. Between the 4 directly linked leagues we have running, as well as other affiliated leagues (LTTP, NFL Oireland, PPR, Auction etc.) we really do have our hands full in one sole thread here. Just a simple suggestion, it would be interesting to see what the other users of this forum and indeed the moderators think.

eagle eye

The reason I'm so adamant that only the Prem League should vote on it is that there will be loads of people here who will not come back next year. Thats the way it works in this forum.
There are people here giving out yards about what I'm saying that won't be here next year. I don't know which ones will not be here but there will be some of them.

I can guarantee you that the majority of the Prem League players from this year will be back but out of all the other leagues I'd be surprised if there was anymore than 8 who return next year.

Peyton Manning

There's no reason to think that those who have been active all year in the other divisions and maintain their team every single week won't be active again next year. Looking at the list of users from the table I drew up, there are far more than 8 who are regular contributors to many Boards forums.

eagle eye

Tom_Brady wrote: »

There's no reason to think that those who have been active all year in the other divisions and maintain their team every single week won't be active again next year. Looking at the list of users from the table I drew up, there are far more than 8 who are regular contributors to many Boards forums.

But we were in the very same situation last year. We had two divisions and loads that didn't return.

You don't seem to understand. The offseason is football is pretty much 6 months. There are only a certain amount of us that will still be posting here come draft time. People just forget about it and don't come back. Its happened here every year since I've been here anyways.

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

But we were in the very same situation last year. We had two divisions and loads that didn't return.

You don't seem to understand. The offseason is football is pretty much 6 months. There are only a certain amount of us that will still be posting here come draft time. People just forget about it and don't come back. Its happened here every year since I've been here anyways.

Well we seem to have done quite well this year anyway, we have 4 full divisions where the vast majority of people are active. We're not going to be drafting in the summer, so people don't have to be there then. Offseason business doesn't appeal to everyone. Fantasy Football isn't just for diehards who follow every aspect of the game, it can be for casual fans too. It would be unfair to assume that most of the participants wont return, regardless of what happened in the past. A lot of the names on the list I am familiar with because they post on boards a hell of a lot, and I know for a fact there are several people not involved at the moment who are waiting to declare their interest in taking part in this league system once our current season is wrapped up, and they're very consistent posters here so I have no reason to believe they'll up and leave either. Im sure now that we have more leagues that a lot of people are getting their first taste of fantasy football where there is banter on a regular weekly basis between the participants. You tend to get a bit of a taste for that, so I can certainly envisage a lot more than the 8 people you have predicted returning outside of the Prem League.

eagle eye

Well I think you were around last year. Do you not remember Chanandler Bong, Karluss, Lorcan, Pat the Patriot, Laces Out, The Headhunter just to name few who were around last year. There are lots of others of course, those ones just stick out because they posted a lot on the forum and pretty much disappeared during the offseason. I notice The Headhunter posted recently but only once I think. They played fantasy football last year too.

Syferus

On a happier note: http://challengegames.nfl.com/playoffchallenge/entries/new

How about we wangle together a Boards.ie playoff league to add to the fun of the playoffs?

I've set this one up: http://challengegames.nfl.com/playoffchallenge/leagues/725 and the password is jetsrock, just because I'm evil like that.

eagle eye

I just set up the Boards.ie challenge league for anybody thats interested and doesn't want to be involved with the previous poster for obvious reasons.

http://challengegames.nfl.com/playoffchallenge/leagues/729

If you are interested pm me for the password.

Syferus

eagle eye wrote: »

I just set up the Boards.ie challenge league for anybody thats interested and doesn't want to be involved with the previous poster for obvious reasons.

http://challengegames.nfl.com/playoffchallenge/leagues/729

If you are interested pm me for the password.

Xavi6

Well that was an embarrassing hundred posts or so.

If no new relegation rule was implemented at the start of the season then it's unfair to change it to four now. However it really should be four up, four down [Cowenism]moving forward[/Cowenism].

Mountain and molehill spring to mind.

Black Swan

Tom_Brady wrote: »

This may be a bit out there, but would a Fantasy Football sub forum for the American Football forum be completely out of the question if we petitioned for it? It would allow us to create threads for specific rule changes, allow us to take polls of how people think the rules would work, each division could have it's own general discussion thread, and then there are other discussion threads that would no doubt pop up. It just seems slightly tricky having to arrange everything in this one thread here. Between the 4 directly linked leagues we have running, as well as other affiliated leagues (LTTP, NFL Oireland, PPR, Auction etc.) we really do have our hands full in one sole thread here. Just a simple suggestion, it would be interesting to see what the other users of this forum and indeed the moderators think.

Tom_Brady:
Why don't you open a new thread to discuss this proposed Fantasy Football Sub-forum under American Football to see how much interest there may be in the idea with our posters, and to discuss how such a sub-forum might be structured?
BL

Peyton Manning

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Tom_Brady:
Why don't you open a new thread to discuss this proposed Fantasy Football Sub-forum under American Football to see how much interest there may be in the idea with our posters, and to discuss how such a sub-forum might be structured?
BL

Cheers, will do

Black Swan

Fantasy Football players and fans, please see new thread and poll regarding the possibility of starting a new sub-forum exclusively for Fantasy Football.

Link: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056121145

fisgon

eagle eye wrote: »

I just set up the Boards.ie challenge league for anybody thats interested and doesn't want to be involved with the previous poster for obvious reasons.
.

What?

Dodge

eagle eye wrote: »

I just set up the Boards.ie challenge league for anybody thats interested and doesn't want to be involved with the previous poster for obvious reasons.

http://challengegames.nfl.com/playoffchallenge/leagues/729

If you are interested pm me for the password.

Just made the decision for me. I'm off to join Syferus's league.

for obvious reasons

Spongey1975

Xavi6 wrote: »

Well that was an embarrassing hundred posts or so.

If no new relegation rule was implemented at the start of the season then it's unfair to change it to four now. However it really should be four up, four down [Cowenism]moving forward[/Cowenism].

Mountain and molehill spring to mind.

I agree with this. i am totally in favour of a 4 up 4 down system but nothing was agreed before the start of the season (as far as i can tell) so given the grief caused by rule changes during the season it would be unfair to change this too. We can bring in any changes for next season.

Last year was the first year there was more than one division so obviously there is going to be people who didnt take it seriously and didnt compete the following year. This year there is 4 divisions. Anybody new is going to have to go through 3 promotions to get to the premier league. I think by then he has proven to be a reliable player. I think at least 5 of last years division 1 is playing in the premier and as far as i can tell they have been reliable players. There has been 13 regular players in division 1 this year and whoever is promoted from Div 1 there is no reason to doubt that they will be reliable players. Whoever is promoted from Div 2 to Div 1 will have been reliable players and again there is no reason to doubt they will be again next year and Division 1 should be full of regular/reliable players.

titans

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't see any good reason to increase it to 4.

You have to earn the right to get up to that division and 4 teams is too much to be promoted. I'd be more in favour of 1 than 2 actually but 2 is what was agreed upon, it means that both teams that make the final get up and the two teams with the worst record go down.

There are three teams on 5-8 and if 4 go down then one of them goes down. Its just ludicrous that a team on 5-8 would get relegated.

Its a simple fact that promoting and relegating 4...will keep more people towards the top end and bottom end of the league participating and competing for longer. Reason enough for all current active Boards.ie league members to vote on a 4 up and 4 down change now.

Also...THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS...changing the default nfl.com league settings in the middle of the season (eg. points settings or waiver wire settings) as they have to be formally set and agreed at the start of the season and all participants can check the league settings before the season starts. No such rule regarding promotion or relegation was agreed or set for the premier league/ div 1/ div 2 before the leagues commenced and so the rules should be agreed now.

fisgon

titans wrote: »

Also...THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS...changing the default nfl.com league settings in the middle of the season (eg. points settings or waiver wire settings) as they have to be formally set and agreed at the start of the season and all participants can check the league settings before the season starts. No such rule regarding promotion or relegation was agreed or set for the premier league/ div 1/ div 2 before the leagues commenced and so the rules should be agreed now.

I agree with this. This may have been mentioned at the start of the season, but it was never discussed, and nothing was ever decided upon. This is not last year, there are many more players this year who should have a say if they want one. I, for one, wasn't even aware that there was only supposed to be two up, two down, this info wasn't available anywhere and wasn't set in stone. The settings for the leagues, however, are freely available to anyone who wants to see them on the NFL website. There is a fundamental difference.

titans

Dodge wrote: »

particularly when the Prem/First division split last year was based PURELY on who said they'd join up first.

totally agree with you on this Dodge! the teams in premier league and div1 and div2 were randomly split depending on when people signed up!

Eagle Eye - I don't see why I have to "earn the right" and finish in the top 2 to get promoted when...how exactly did you earn the right to play in the premier league...oh by signing up to the league before me! well earned Eagle Eye!

Can we set-up a boards.ie voting thingy where people vote on 2 up and 2 down or 4 up and 4 down. Majority wins the vote? That the fairest way?

Dohnny Jepp

eagle eye wrote: »

I just set up the Boards.ie challenge league for anybody thats interested and doesn't want to be involved with the previous poster for obvious reasons.

http://challengegames.nfl.com/playoffchallenge/leagues/729

If you are interested pm me for the password.

I cringed

Dohnny Jepp

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I think you were around last year. Do you not remember Chanandler Bong, Karluss, Lorcan, Pat the Patriot, Laces Out, The Headhunter just to name few who were around last year. There are lots of others of course, those ones just stick out because they posted a lot on the forum and pretty much disappeared during the offseason. I notice The Headhunter posted recently but only once I think. They played fantasy football last year too.

Yeah of course we are going to lose some people, but I'd hazard a guess that we'll gain more people then we lose. Like you listed 5 or 6 names of people who left, I can name about 20 of people who joined and contribute.

Dohnny Jepp

We can use this poll to gauge the interest how many get promoted and how many get relegated through all the divisions.

The way I look at it is there are three options.

2 up 2 down - In my opinion this is too small a number for a 16 man league

3 up 3 down - The best two teams plus a 3rd place play off/ or the best team in the playoffs etc

4 up 4 down - In my opinion the best option, keeps a good rotation between the leagues and gives people somethin to aim for throughout the entire year.

Dohnny Jepp

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056121377#

I made a poll for people to vote on how many should go up or down.

Just so we can have quantitive info to look at.

Peyton Manning

I think the main differences between this and the other rule changes that caused a bit trouble are that a) this doesn't change the mechanics of any league we're running, and b) the time frame is way different. This isn't changing a waiver wire order a couple of hours before it opens, or changing the playoff system on the penultimate weekend. There's a good 8/9 months before this would take place anyway.

D3PO

good stuff with the poll 4 up 4 down being an overwhelming leader right now and the suggestion for a sub forum for fantasy football.

Personally speaking Id like to see this sub forum. It would allow for easy discussion of issues across the leagues, identifying a common policy around points , waiver wire rules, promotion / relegation, how to deal with inactioves etc etc.

Xavi6

Poll's not public but I'm happy to say that it's me that has voted 2 up, 2 down at this stage as per my previous post.

Not fussed about the end result though.

Mr. Guappa

I voted for 3 up / 3 down. I'd like to see it decided on 4 up / 4 down from next season but I think it is best to compromise for this season seeing as it wasnt properly discussed and the earliest post anyone has found is one from TO in November saying that it was 3 up / 3 down.

There is no point keeping the Premier Division exclusive - give it a good freshen up every year. Also, in theory a 4 up / 4 down system should see the more active players rise up the divisions.

Dohnny Jepp

Xavi6 wrote: »

Poll's not public but I'm happy to say that it's me that has voted 2 up, 2 down at this stage as per my previous post.

Not fussed about the end result though.

I made it not public for the reason that if people want to vote against the majority but dont want to be known for doing it, they have anonymity

eagle eye

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

Yeah of course we are going to lose some people, but I'd hazard a guess that we'll gain more people then we lose. Like you listed 5 or 6 names of people who left, I can name about 20 of people who joined and contribute.

So lets say we lose two of the promoted teams. Then what happens?

Do you bring up the next two from that league?

Do you not relegate two of the 4 you are relegating?

What happens if we lose a player from the Prem League that is not being relegated?

When you are promoting and relegating numbers that big it is going to cause problems.

Mr. Guappa

eagle eye wrote: »

So lets say we lose two of the promoted teams. Then what happens?

Do you bring up the next two from that league?

Do you not relegate two of the 4 you are relegating?

What happens if we lose a player from the Prem League that is not being relegated?

When you are promoting and relegating numbers that big it is going to cause problems.

This is why we are doing the ranking system that Archi put together a first draft of a few days ago. If one of the Premier League eligible players (i.e. the top 16 on the list) is not around next year then number 17 on the list gets the spot.

I'd be for one of the releagted teams reclaiming that spot - which is what would happen going by Archi's rankings.

eagle eye

Dodge wrote: »

Just made the decision for me. I'm off to join Syferus's league.

for obvious reasons

Not as obvious as I thought then when I set it up. Pm sent to a few of you.

Peyton Manning

V-Jax putting me in a great position in the Premier League playoffs. 21.10 points already. Bit of a risk throwing him in instead of Mike Wallace, but nice when it pays off like this

eagle eye

It must feel sore having left him on the bench in the PPR.

Peyton Manning

Ah its not so bad. Bit of a mickey mouse cup, everybody knows the Premier League is where it's at

eagle eye

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Ah its not so bad. Bit of a mickey mouse cup, everybody knows the Premier League is where it's at

I was all about the Prem League at the start of the year but its really a bit of a lottery with 16 teams in it.

Also the waiver wire being the way it is has made a complete joke of it.

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

I was all about the Prem League at the start of the year but its really a bit of a lottery with 16 teams in it.

Also the waiver wire being the way it is has made a complete joke of it.

Lose interest somewhere between weeks 5 and 9 I'm guessing?

Nothing wrong with the waiver wire imo. Having first pick doesn't guarantee success. I was probably the most active on the waiver wire in the league and was constantly at the back of the queue, rarely got my first choice but it didn't do me any harm. Was able to spot a few sleepers (Hillis, Jackson, Britt) from the back of the queue too that served me well.

eagle eye

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Lose interest somewhere between weeks 5 and 9 I'm guessing?

I never lost interest, its not in my nature.

Spongey1975

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Ah its not so bad. Bit of a mickey mouse cup, everybody knows the Premier League is where it's at

I'll gladly settle for that mickey mouse cup seeing as i got nowhere in Division 1. Wont say no to the Auction title either,

Icepickle

In my Div 2 playoff game...
Rivers throws 3TD's for me
All went to VJax who he has

I just hope that his QB P.Manning has a similar focus for my WR Wayne when it comes to tossing TD's otherwise I might be in trouble.