new groupset... thoughts?

Diarmuid

Going to splash some cash and change out my triple for a double/compact. I was considering just upgrading the chainset but the price differential makes the whole groupset look tempting (and I\ll be ready for some future build ). Leaning strongly towards SRAM Rival. In particular the 50/34 + 11-25. What think you? Worth just going for the 11-23 and sacrificing the 25? Is SRAM Force worth the extra £200? I'm thinking not.

ROK ON

I think Tiny has done a €/weight saving analysis of all the groupsets when he was buying his Planet X, or at least I seem to recall so.

BTW, you are reasonably thin, used to big climbs in France, a handy enough climber. So now that you are back here, why not use a double as opposed to compact.
Reason I ask is that I have a compact and a triple. However I miss the 39 ring when I am using the compact.

Lumen

SRAM Force looks better, that's about it.

I've read that Shimano cassettes shift better (they have patents and stuff).

I'd get whatever cassette you would find useful that you don't have already.

FWIW I didn't run out of gears last Sunday on a 53/39 12-23, so I'd say you'd be fine on 11-23 for racing at least.

I think I have a 11-25 (might be 11-26) and it's annoyingly gappy for racing.

Don't get a compact.

Diarmuid

Yeah the double is tempting but over the last few weeks I've been keeping an eye on what I've been using and tbh at 39-23 in Wicklow I'd be looking for more gears. I like to spin the pedals. However it's true in the races I've done a 39 would be fine. decisions decisions...

Nietzschean

Diarmuid wrote: »

Yeah the double is tempting but over the last few weeks I've been keeping an eye on what I've been using and tbh at 39-23 in Wicklow I'd be looking for more gears. I like to spin the pedals. However it's true in the races I've done a 39 would be fine. decisions decisions...

cassettes are cheap and fairly handy to swap, 11-23 for racing 12-27 for wicklow and your set for everything?

Lumen

Diarmuid wrote: »

Yeah the double is tempting but over the last few weeks I've been keeping an eye on what I've been using and tbh at 39-23 in Wicklow I'd be looking for more gears. I like to spin the pedals. However it's true in the races I've done a 39 would be fine. decisions decisions...

You need another bike. I think they generally come with a new groupset

ROK ON

Lumen wrote: »

You need another bike. I think they generally come with a new groupset

. . .or you could by a Dura Ace and some wheels and get a PX frame for free:D

Diarmuid

going with the two cassettes could be a good idea all right., Still not convinced about the double

Lumen

Diarmuid wrote: »

going with the two cassetts could be a good idea allright., Still not convived about the double

You could always get a compact and stick a 38 chain ring on it for racing. This was my plan until I was forced by availability to get a standard double.

TinyExplosions

Rival and Force are functionally the same, apart from weight. Red is lighter still, and iirc has slightly more trim options on the front derailleur, but ignoring that, SRAM trickle their tech down very quickly to the other groupos.

I'd say that if you care about looks and what others will think, and can afford the extra couple hundred to go for Force, or (as I would do), get the Rival and the carbon crankset that is an option -you don't save weight but get added bling

Murph100

You could always go for a Campag double 11s and get a 12-29, and have a 11-23 for racing etc. That should cover everything on this island anyway.

Raam

Ah just keep the triple ya big pansy.


I'm just kidding, change it, quick! I like the look of the new Ultegra with the hidden cables, although I have heard the shifting isn't as good with it. That's from a shop mechanic who races, but I've no experience of the new version.

I'll probably still get it eventually.

keizer

Murph100 wrote: »

You could always go for a Campag double 11s and get a 12-29, and have a 11-23 for racing etc. That should cover everything on this island anyway.

I had a 13-23 on my up to a few weeks ago and a 53-39 on the front. The hills in Wicklow were murder for me with it.

I now have a 13-28 on the bike and it has made such a difference. Only takes ten minutes to change the cassette.

niceonetom

I'd just point out that with a hollowtech system it's very nearly as easy to change the cranks as it is to chance a cassette.

I have a compact with 11-25 at the moment, giving a very wide range but at the expense of close ratios. I'd prefer to stay with something like a 12-23 and swap between a standard and a compact when going from racing to mountain climbing...


It's all theoretical for now though.

Chips Lovell

All I want to know is what is a hill climbing beast like you doing getting a compact. 53/39 and 12-25 would probably cover you for most things.

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

I'd just point out that with a hollowtech system it's very nearly as easy to change the cranks as it is to chance a cassette.

It's very easy with SRAM too (quicker/easier than a cassette change), you just need a bigger wrench

I haven't fully worked out the implications of not adjusting the front mech height. I managed to drop a chain on my new double (with chain keeper!) at the last race, and while the shifting felt great I do wonder if using the (fractionally lower) compact mech position contributed.

FWIW I have a lightly used SRAM Red compact that I can't see myself using very much, and I vaguely remember Quigs Snr having a standard double one up for trade.

I'm not convinced about the 11-?? SRAM cassettes, not sure the extra gap is worth the extra top end, but it's all compatible anyway (I use Shimano cassettes now with my SRAM).

Billy Whizz

53/39 with an 11-23 is plenty of gears. You'll definitely need the 11 (should need it in Stamullen this weekend) and if you need more than the 23, you're off the back anyway.

Stick a 12-25 or 12-27 on the training wheels and you're good to go.

Know a few blokes who run 53/42 + 11-21 on their bikes, use a 25 in training and a 27 if they go on holidays. The close ratios are great, but you do have to mash a bit.

barrabus

http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/campagnolo-shimano-and-sram-groupsets/

€727 for Dura Ace 7800 ...

Diarmuid

Billy Whizz wrote: »

53/39 with an 11-23 is plenty of gears.

plenty of gears for most (all) Irish road racing. However I don't want to have to switch out cranks if I want to go for a gentle spin in Wicklow

Raam

Diarmuid wrote: »

plenty of gears for most (all) Irish road racing. However I don't want to have to switch out cranks if I want to go for a gentle spin in Wicklow

Just whack a 27 on if going for a long day in the hills. That's what I do.

Diarmuid

Lumen wrote: »

FWIW I have a lightly used SRAM Red compact that I can't see myself using very much,

oohh tempting. what ballpark €?

Lumen

Diarmuid wrote: »

oohh tempting. what ballpark €?

No idea what they're worth. Will take a few pics of condition.

You'd need the rest of the groupset, but I honestly think that swapping a crankset is less hassle than swapping a cassette.

The financially suicidal part of me would love to have two Cinqos, a standard and a compact.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

I honestly think that swapping a crankset is less hassle than swapping a cassette.

What? Really?

Diarmuid

Raam wrote: »

Just whack a 27 on if going for a long day in the hills. That's what I do.

I must consult Sheldon again

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

What? Really?

Cassette change:

- Take off rear wheel, getting hands covered in greasy crap.
- Affix chain whip.
- Get lockring off.
- Take cassette off.
- Pick up all the spacers that dropped on the floor, and work out which order they went on.
- Put new cassette on, in about five stages.
- Lockring on.
- Realise I left the spacer off, repeat.
- Put rear wheel back on.

Crank change:

- Slip off chain
- Undo bolt.
- Slide off crank.
- Slide on new crank.
- Tighten bolt.
- Slip on chain.

Almost like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibycOXD-Mw0

Raam

Each to their own. Cassettes are typically cheaper though

DirkVoodoo

Where were you looking at groupsets Diarmuid? Like Barrabus linked to, I used merlin and their prices are pretty good, you can get 09 force for a pretty good price.

levitronix

Swapping for a compact crank less hassle maybe for you but for me i had to lower my front derialleur and the chain lenght didnt seem right at all not enough tension lots of chain slap on bumps kinda like a mountain bike, i find swapping a casette so much easier

alfalad

Lumen wrote: »

Almost like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibycOXD-Mw0

He has no bars on the Transition so that would be a bigger worry!

Diarmuid

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Where were you looking at groupsets Diarmuid? Like Barrabus linked to, I used merlin and their prices are pretty good, you can get 09 force for a pretty good price.

Shinybikes. Haven't looked passed their prices so far though.

Lumen

levitronix wrote: »

Swapping for a compact crank less hassle maybe for you but for me i had to lower my front derialleur and the chain lenght didnt seem right at all not enough tension lots of chain slap on bumps kinda like a mountain bike

Yeah, there is that. I posted before that I wasn't too sure about the derailleur height issue although the chain tension seems OK (the setup was done originally for a compact).

I don't know whether it's possible to have a good working setup which supports both a standard and compact crank. Need to visit Mr Skeffington and get an expert opinion.

Chips Lovell

I'd be in the cassette camp. While cranks are relatively easy to swap out, there are a few issues such as torqueing down bolts to the right spec and mickying around with the front deraileur a bit to make sure you don't drop your chain in a race. I've also found, with FSA cranks at least, that frequent removal and retightening of the small pinch bolts can cause the heads to start rounding out.

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

I don't know whether it's possible to have a good working setup which supports both a standard and compact crank. Need to visit Mr Skeffington and get an expert opinion.

I am surprised that you didn't have to move the derailleur height but with regard to chain length you can use the same length chain on 53/39 11-23 and 50/34 12-27. This is based on my own experience swapping between those two. After swapping the crank it was clear the 12-27 wasn't going to work.

Raam

I think Lumen just wants some backup so he can justify buying another one of those cranksets.

So just for you, Lumen, yeah changing the crankset looks easier

Billy Whizz

Diarmuid wrote: »

plenty of gears for most (all) Irish road racing. However I don't want to have to switch out cranks if I want to go for a gentle spin in Wicklow

On the very next line I said you could stick a 25 or 27 on your training wheels...

53/39 with a 11-23 on your good wheels and a 12-25(27) on your training wheels. Honestly don't see the need for any other setup.

Diarmuid

Billy Whizz wrote: »

On the very next line I said you could stick a 25 or 27 on your training wheels...

53/39 with a 11-23 on your good wheels and a 12-25(27) on your training wheels. Honestly don't see the need for any other setup.

Fair enough. I guess my point of view is that I will end up being lazy and leave on the same cassette all the time, in which case the 50-34 + 11-25 gives the best compromise.

One year down the road I've no doubt I'll be looking for a 53/39 double

EDIT: I don't have training wheels or a winter bike (yet)

Diarmuid

Lumen wrote: »

No idea what they're worth. Will take a few pics of condition

I'll take your word on the condition, just give me a ball park figure on the price for my spreadsheet </nerd>

Lumen

Diarmuid wrote: »

I'll take your word on the condition, just give me a ball park figure on the price for my spreadsheet </nerd>

€262.17 from CRC, so €150 I guess.

I also need to buy some SRAM parts for my next build, at least BB, shifters, chain and mechs. It would almost be cheaper to buy the groupset and sell on the chainset, cassette and brakes.

blorg

I may need a 175mm SRAM chainset. Just throwing that out there. 53/39 or worse.

Diarmuid

Lumen wrote: »

€262.17 from CRC, so €150 I guess.

I forgot to ask but I guess it's 175? I need a 170.

Lumen

Diarmuid wrote: »

I forgot to ask but I guess it's 175? I need a 170.

172.5

We might be able to sort out some massive SRAM swapping party, but it's not clear to me yet :-)

Maybe I should buy a group with a 175 and sell the crankset to Blorg.

Lumen

Diarmuid wrote: »

EDIT: I don't have training wheels or a winter bike (yet)

A Rival equipped Planet-X isn't much more than a groupset, and comes with wheels.