Series 5, Episode 3 - "Victory of the Daleks"

pixelburp

Another preview & comment thread for tomorrow's episode (What can I say, it's a slow day in work on Friday ). I am cautiously looking forward to this episode - Spitfires versus Daleks ticks my boxes anyway - though it would have been nice to know that the new direction included a move away from the Daleks.

I gotta be truthful, based on the below clips, Matt Smith's a bit unconvincing when he tries to do the righteous indignation. Plus Winston's a bit too ... "kindly uncle" in those clips. Strange casting really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jsQiz2zUSQ

pixelburp

Oh bugger, could a mod update the title of the thread, it went a bit wonky there

Doctor DooM

pixelburp wrote: »

Oh bugger, could a mod update the title of the thread, it went a bit wonky there

You can do it yourself in the advanced editing options or report the post so they can see it quicker.

pixelburp

Doctor DooM wrote: »

You can do it yourself in the advanced editing options or report the post so they can see it quicker.

I knew that. Ok, it's a very slow day then. Ahem

So, daleks then. Remember kids, aim for the eyestalk!

Doctor DooM

Just being honest, not convinced so far. Winny is not impressing.

.SONIC.

that actually looks quite good, cant wait to see it :D

nucking futs

Well, that was a bit disappointing

iUseVi

Not the greatest episode ever.

I know the Daleks are supposed to be the arch-enemies and all but I'm getting quite tired of the silly ways the writers are bringing them back from the brink.

And the whole "your human so the bomb can't detonate" thing was cringe-worthy.

On the plus side next week looks awesome, I loved the original "blink and you miss 'em" statue episode.

nucking futs

iUseVi wrote: »

I know the Daleks are supposed to be the arch-enemies and all but I'm getting quite tired of the silly ways the writers are bringing them back from the brink.

There was actually one line that I liked that called back to it, the Doctor said something like "This is the end for you, forever"

Agent J

Mighty morphin power Darleks!

Not the best. Not the worst either.

Pittens

the idea of the modern Dr Who is that it is not a reboot, so the old enemies will be in every series. the daleks will not be destroyed.

interesting sub-theme about Amy not remembering the events of the previous Dr's timeline.

So-so episode, but good in parts.

Wibbs

iUseVi wrote: »

And the whole "your human so the bomb can't detonate" thing was cringe-worthy.

God it was. Utter pish.

On the plus side next week looks awesome, I loved the original "blink and you miss 'em" statue episode.

Ditto, but it was great as a one off. One of the best Dr Who episodes ever. I think the sequel will dissappoint, even if its good.

Is it me or are the new daleks crap looking? Bloated, awkward and a little too tall. I know there are more and more people with big bums walking around, but did the daleks end up on MacceeDees 3 for a while?

nucking futs

Wibbs wrote: »

Is it me or are the new daleks crap looking? Bloated, awkward and a little too tall. I know there are more and more people with big bums walking around, but did the daleks end up on MacceeDees 3 for a while?

I love the new Daleks, pretty much the only part of the episode I enjoyed to be honest

iUseVi

Wibbs wrote: »

Is it me or are the new daleks crap looking? Bloated, awkward and a little too tall. I know there are more and more people with big bums walking around, but did the daleks end up on MacceeDees 3 for a while?

A bit fat, yes. Forget going up and down stairs, I think these might have issues with your average door!

pixelburp

Well tonight's episode was written by Mark Gattiss, whose previous episodes were a bit poor, so at least the man in consistent If anything, the story could have done with being a two parter; it rattled along at too fast a pace. At least the Spitfires-in-Space didn't disappoint (but again, their appearance was too hurried)

As for the Daleks though ... oof. ... Ohh boy (cue Quantum Leap themetune)

I gotta say, hands up for another poster who hates the look of the new Daleks. Say what you will about the RTD era, and the overuse of the Daleks in general, but at least the SFX guys made a great attempt at taking those malevolent dustbins and making them look hostile, military (the bronze colour looked great), and generally like a genuinely threatening race.

Now they just look like cheap, plastic toys to be honest. Their design's all rubbish & the bright colour-coding just compounds it all, especially when sharing scenes with those previous versions (Look how easily the old versions co-existed in the ww2 setting). I know I know - kids in the audience blah blah - but seriously, they look like some fans made them in their garage.

Next week's looking well though, 2 parter featuring the Weeping Angels & River Song

iUseVi

pixelburp wrote: »

Now they just look like cheap, plastic toys to be honest. Their design's all rubbish & the bright colour-coding just compounds it all, especially when sharing scenes with those previous versions (Look how easily the old versions co-existed in the ww2 setting). I know I know - kids in the audience blah blah - but seriously, they look like some fans made them in their garage.

I may be the most cynical person on the planet but am I the only one who had the thought that they made them different colours so they could sell more children's toys? "Ooh mummy I want the yellow one! Tom has it!"

ixoy

It was all right. Daleks haven't really featured in a good episode since "Dalek" and not a great one since "Remembrance of the Daleks".
I didn't like Chamberlain here - something seemed off with the performance. Didn't care much for RoboScientist either and seriously what was that crap about being human defusing the bomb? I know it shouldn't be surprising really on this show but it was weak and daft. Moffat you should have kicked that bit back!

On the other hand I continue to like Matt Smith's Doctor and Amy Pond. Pond seems a very capable companion and she's just quite likeable - none of the histrionics we saw in the RTD era. Smith was a little bit shouty at times here, but perhaps the writers are still channelling the DT era.

On the other hand - no comment on Pond not knowing the Daleks? We finally got some further expansion of the crack so this could be interesting. One theory we came up with here: The cracks in time will erase all RTD's work

pixelburp

iUseVi wrote: »

I may be the most cynical person on the planet but am I the only one who had the thought that they made them different colours so they could sell more children's toys? "Ooh mummy I want the yellow one! Tom has it!"

No, it's not cynical at all, that's precisely why they are all different colours. If you were really cynical - like moi - you'd suggest that the new, simpler & more plasic design is so that toy manufacturers have an easier time reproducing them as toys, compared with the older models with their inconvenient details and subtle lines

pixelburp

ixoy wrote: »

On the other hand - no comment on Pond not knowing the Daleks? We finally got some further expansion of the crack so this could be interesting. One theory we came up with here: The cracks in time will erase all RTD's work

One can only hope Perhaps the TARDIS exploding and the Time Lords forcing their way into our universe caused these cracks. I doubt it's a coincidence that they are following the TARDIS around time and space. Maybe the Doctor's appearance in young Amy's time too was more significant than we thought - there was that bit at the end of ep 1 where it seemed like the Doctor went back to say hi to wee Amy - perhaps he accidentally changed all "current" history.

Oh no I've gone cross eyed

nucking futs

ixoy wrote: »

I didn't like Chamberlain here

Eh, you mean Churchill?

ixoy wrote: »

One theory we came up with here: The cracks in time will erase all RTD's work

Oh, if only :rolleyes:

iUseVi wrote: »

I may be the most cynical person on the planet but am I the only one who had the thought that they made them different colours so they could sell more children's toys? "Ooh mummy I want the yellow one! Tom has it!"

Actually they were saying on Confidential that the idea is that they are dirrerent 'ranks'. I think they said the red one is a scout, white one is the leader, and the yellow one is called Eternity, although Moffat's not sure why yet :rolleyes:

lizardfudge

nucking futs wrote: »

Actually they were saying on Confidential that the idea is that they are dirrerent 'ranks'. I think they said the red one is a scout, white one is the leader, and the yellow one is called Eternity, although Moffat's not sure why yet :rolleyes:

Is the red one the the one that gets killed on away missions?

I quite like the look of them though... sort of what an iDalek would look like if made by Apple.

Aoifums

Overall I liked it.

I liked the Jammy Dodger/Tardis self destruct button. Maybe I'm childish, but it made me laugh.

Amy having no memory of the Daleks was interesting. But I don't like the new Daleks. The old ones looked sturdier. The new ones look hollow and cheap. Don't ask me about how they look hollow, that was just the first thought that popped into my head when I saw them.

They showed the damn crack again :mad::mad::mad: Sure it's significant, but if they keep showing it, I'm going to be bored of it by the time we find out its significance later in the series.

I'm going to need to watch it again to properly see it. I had old people yapping in my ear for the entire episode! Just because you don't watch it, doesn't mean you can ask me whats happening!

Gambler

As an episode - I didn't rate it at all.. As has been said before the "You're human, so please don't explode" thing was just stupid on every level and I'm not mad about the new look daleks.

However, I am excited by the fact that this is the first episode in the "modern" series where it ended that the daleks are now out there preparing to do god knows what and building their numbers etc. etc. etc. I don't know if it's likely to happen but I like to think that this means we will get a decent recurring set of episodes over (hopefully) the next couple of series where the Daleks are an ongoing serious thread rather than an occasional "Oh look, we've found another last dalek. Let's destroy it so we never have to face their evil again" episode.

I have to say that I am worried about next weeks episode too. Blink was a great episode, I worry that be revisiting it they will leave me with a bad enough taste in my mouth that it might taint the original episode in some way! :P

pixelburp

Aoifums wrote: »

Amy having no memory of the Daleks was interesting. But I don't like the new Daleks. The old ones looked sturdier. The new ones look hollow and cheap. Don't ask me about how they look hollow, that was just the first thought that popped into my head when I saw them.

It's possibly 'cos they're that bit more plastic looking than the last versions, hence they seem a bit more hollow as you say? I got the same feeling too though, they look like a stiff wind might topple them over ...
"EXTERMINATE, EXTERIM...OOF. BUGGER, LITTLE HELP?"

Gambler wrote: »

I have to say that I am worried about next weeks episode too. Blink was a great episode, I worry that be revisiting it they will leave me with a bad enough taste in my mouth that it might taint the original episode in some way!

I dunno, I'm actually looking forward to it; the presence of what seem to be soldiers make me think they might try and go for an "Aliens" style sequel, where instead of aping the success of the first story, they just try and go for a different kind of scare.

bigdaddyliamo

mixed bag for me, i'm afraid. Was not mad about the new invasion of the DuluxDaleks. Give me the classic ones anytime.
On the plus side Pond stikes again....Is it me or have the writers mixed up the scripts? Seems like Amy sorts the biz out at the end of the eps...

Anyway, Mr Ironside, I'll have my tea now!:D

Killer_banana

Well I thoroughly enjoyed that. Wasn't without it's faults but still excellent IMO. Loved the idea and loved the Doctor's hatred for the Daleks coming though (remind anyone else of the Time Lord Triumphant?) Liked the character of Churchill as well although he didn't seem very Churchill-y to me (then again my knowledge of him is very limited) and became even more fond of Amy. It's nice to have a companion who doesn't look to the Doctor for a solution to everything. Loved the bit with the jammy dodger as well. Interesting that Amy's forgotten the Daleks. I expected i jut to be in relation to the episode alone at first. The

angels story is a two parter so I'm wondering if that has anything to do with it.

Not sure how it would fit in with the cracks plot.

I did not like the new Daleks at all. They look very outdated and ridiculous. I was thinking about how I liked the green Daleks and then those things appeared. I'll have to live with it I guess. I didn't like the diffusion of the bomb either. Was very cheesy and didn't make much sense to me at all. The 'Ever fancied someone you shouldn't have' line didn't gel with me either. Clearly relates to the Doctor (the lovestruck companion thing has gotten beyond ridiculous) and it just seemed so Martha-esque. The crack at the end pissed me off as well. I thought we might get some nice subtle foreshadowing this series but instead we get the most obvious references ever which just seem to be thrown in to make sure we don't forget. It's maddening.

Still thought it was cracking episode and the series is still just finding it's feet so some faults are acceptable.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Liked the jammie dodger thing, but really have to give it another look before I pass judgement - my niece was playing with the noisiest toys through the entire episode...

sock puppet

The cracks are a bit ridiculous. The last series was better in that there was only occasional references to planets being taken.

iUseVi

+1 For the Jammy Dodger gag, that was a good bit.

ixoy

sock puppet wrote: »

The cracks are a bit ridiculous. The last series was better in that there was only occasional references to planets being taken.

I'm surprised to be honest - I'd have thought Moffat would have had more subtlety. For example, in this episode it would have been enough surely to have had Amy forgetting about the Daleks and us inferring that this was to do with the cracks.
Or, if they must show it, make it like the Observer in "Fringe" - not always visible easily and a bit of a game to find. As opposed to always being the final shot!

Doctor DooM

I think the cracks turning up everywhere is delibrate.

I think it's following the Doctor, or more specifically the Tardis.

Just a theory.

iUseVi

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I think the cracks turning up everywhere is delibrate.

I think it's following the Doctor, or more specifically the Tardis.

Just a theory.

Or maybe its following Amy Pond? Oohhh. Stealing her memory and stuff.

Doctor DooM

Ok...


I said before there's an air of competency about this series and this episode really showed that.


It was the worst episode so far but also still eminently watchable. There was alot I liked (war dalek, spacefires, fx were pretty strong) buut stuff I didn't too. Alot was taken "on faith" in this episode- for example I think we were supposed to immediately make the leap between the delibrate mentioning of a positronic brain and the dalek/data dude being able to stop the bomb by making new neural connections or some such and overwriting the explodey program. Still bull**** but again, standard sf bull. Or maybe I am giving Gatiss too much credit seeing as I was just doing some AI stuff

I'm actually ok with the new daleks. not in love with them, just... ok. I think at some point the old designs which were damn good were going to have to go.

I wonder did this happen at some point though:

Mark Gatiss is sitting down to start writing an episode of Dr Who. SM has just told him he's getting the Dalek episode. Knowing it's his chance to shine in front of his new boss, he's got to think of something new... clever....

Just then his wife asks if he'd like a cup of tea.

Tea
Dalek

Dalek tea!!!

Doctor DooM

iUseVi wrote: »

Or maybe its following Amy Pond? Oohhh. Stealing her memory and stuff.

That'd make sense, we don't know why the first crack showed up, could be something to do with Amy herself.

pixelburp

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I think the cracks turning up everywhere is delibrate.

I think it's following the Doctor, or more specifically the Tardis.

Just a theory.

The more I think about it, the more I suspect that the little moment at the end of Ep 1 could be the reason: that bit where it looked like the Doctor did in fact return to child-Amy (though it was edited to seem like a dream), and caused a big time paradox of some kind. The crack-in-time is some kind of consequence, following the TARDIS everywhere? I have a feeling it won't be that long until we see the results - I can't see 11 episodes of "ooh, look there it is!"

Doctor DooM

pixelburp wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more I suspect that the little moment at the end of Ep 1 could be the reason: that bit where it looked like the Doctor did in fact return to child-Amy (though it was edited to seem like a dream), and caused a big time paradox of some kind. The crack-in-time is some kind of consequence, following the TARDIS everywhere? I have a feeling it won't be that long until we see the results - I can't see 11 episodes of "ooh, look there it is!"

That both makes alot of sense and would be nice and clever. I hope we're not disappointed by the truth

iUseVi

pixelburp wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more I suspect that the little moment at the end of Ep 1 could be the reason: that bit where it looked like the Doctor did in fact return to child-Amy (though it was edited to seem like a dream), and caused a big time paradox of some kind. The crack-in-time is some kind of consequence, following the TARDIS everywhere? I have a feeling it won't be that long until we see the results - I can't see 11 episodes of "ooh, look there it is!"

"Dear BBC, please let pixelburp write some Doctor Who episodes, yours sincerly, a viewer."

Penn

Another mention again of the Doctor not landing in the right time. Episode 1 he told Amelia he'd be back in 5 minutes, but was actually 12 years. Then he popped off for a spin in his new Tardis and was 2 years away. Now Churchill called him and he arrived a month after he should have. Another link to the cracks? Could also explain the shot where it looks like he appeared to Amelia again at the end of Episode 1, maybe something we'll see in a future episode where he doesn't mean to go back that far?

murpho999

Just watched it and was totally underwhelmed by it.

I really do try to like Dr Who but for some reason it doesn't let me.

Here's what I didn't like about this episode.

1) Portrayal of Churchilll as a caring & street cool cuddly person was over the top.

2) Daleks back from the brink.....yet again, either kill them off or have them as a proper thriving difficult to kill enemy who are not on the brink

3) Daleks have amazing technology and intelligence and they are confused by a biscuit...please.

4) Why do bombs in these type of shows have a build up/countdown process.....thus giving the hero time....can the daleks not just push the button and the bomb goes off instantly....sure the IRA mastered that years ago!

5) How the bomb was diffused by love or something, already commented on by other posts here.

6) The British Jingoism: Granted it's a BBC show but do they have to put Union Jacks in all the time.....I mean the raising of the flag to copy the famous raising of flag at Iwo Jima was just cheesy.

7) Planes were adapted and pilots had mastered spaceflight in Spitfires
within the space of 10 minutes...totally ridiculous.

8) How were they able to see on a screen what the Doctor was doing on the Dalek ship...where did the camera come from.

9) Matt Smith is fine, but to me he's just another version of David Tennant.

I do wish that the show was brilliant but it just doesn't do it for me.

Killer_banana

Even if the cracks are following the Doctor or Amy around they could still be a bit more subtle. As Ixoy said, make them more difficult to see. Or at least don't zoom in on them and play dramatic music every time. The crack at the end of the first episode, that was a bit more subtle. If they must be in every episode at least do something that wont't make me want to scream at the tv. I want to be intrigued and surprised by this story at the end of the season, not wearied by constant crack appearances and just wishing it would end. Oh btw, I had a theory about Amy's memory loss not being related to the cracks in an earlier post, now that I'm not falling asleep at the keyboard and not hungover I've realised it clearly must be the cracks and doesn't fit with the angels. So yeah...ignore that theory.

As for the theory of the Doctor visiting younger Amy I like it, especially since she doesn't seem to have any recollection of that either. It probably was just a dream though. Otherwise the events twelve years later would probably be very different Then again, wibbly wobbly timey whimey, so who knows.

anotherlostie

I'm also in the 'thought it would be better' camp. But it was very funny to see the Daleks channelling Mrs Doyle, "Would you care for some tea?", and I did laugh at the little Union flag on the Ironside. Didn't like Churchill, the whole professor saves the world via his emotions, or indeed the fact that they are making Amy too competent - she had the idea to use the prof to develop new weapons, and she got through to the prof. She's only 21 and used to work as a strippogram, yet she has all this insight. Either sloppy writing or a sign of something to come regarding her background.

BBC's marketeers must be salivating at this stage - a new sonic screwdriver and 5 new Daleks for kids to badger their parents into buying. They did look somewhat cheap - that could be looked upon as the reduced BBC budget, or efficiency in this new breed of Dalek requiring less materials.

The Doctor being late and the crack in time obviously form the arc - that Leadworth is an anagram of Dr Who Late seems appropriate now. Amy's lack of knowledge of the Daleks intrigued me but, just like in Lost, we didn't get an explanation as to why.

Jessibelle

I was a bit 'meh' about the whole episode. I came away thinking the new daleks look cheap, (but maybe they're also feeling a recessionary pinch??), noticing for the first time sice the new series began, that Matt Smith has eyebrows, thinking the flag raising at the end similarity to the flag raising at Iwo Jima, was just a little too twee and then remembering that I really really don't like weeping angels. At all.
If thats all it left me with, then again I say 'meh'

ixoy

Jessibelle wrote: »

and then remembering that I really really don't like weeping angels.

:eek::eek::eek: You didn't like "Blink"?! Well then I don't like you

Jessibelle

ixoy wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek: You didn't like "Blink"?! Well then I don't like you

Didn't like, in that I spent the following week petrified of any local masonry/sculpture, (in a cool grown up 'yeah it doesn't scare me, but still I'm just going to maintain eye contact for a while' kind of way) and we had urban myths of the local statues of various saints etc jumping off churches and schools to eat people when I was in primary school, which really didn't help.....:o

Pittens

What's this about Amy not remembering the Doctor coming back when she was a child.

he didnt. That was the point. He was 12 years late.

Or did I miss something?

nucking futs

Pittens wrote: »

What's this about Amy not remembering the Doctor coming back when she was a child.

he didnt. That was the point. He was 12 years late.

Or did I miss something?

It's a theory based one one short clip, nothing else really

Ridley

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I wonder did this happen at some point though:

Mark Gatiss is sitting down to start writing an episode of Dr Who. SM has just told him he's getting the Dalek episode. Knowing it's his chance to shine in front of his new boss, he's got to think of something new... clever....

Just then his wife asks if he'd like a cup of tea.

Tea
Dalek

Dalek tea!!!

Not a chance.

Not his wife anyway...

I liked that bit from an episode that I was largely indifferent to, like Gatiss' other episodes. Which is slightly annoying because he's one of the League of Gentlemen so I keep wanting and expecting better.

Moffat's season seems to be doing a lot in hoping the viewer just accepts whatever's said and moves on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xETlYacSCHE

Killer_banana wrote: »

Still thought it was cracking episode and the series is still just finding it's feet so some faults are acceptable.

FORESHADOWING.

murpho999 wrote: »

2) Daleks back from the brink.....yet again, either kill them off or have them as a proper thriving difficult to kill enemy who are not on the brink

The episode was very much set up the latter I believe. There's the real reason

Moffat's Daleks shot Davies'

. And the title of the episode.

murpho999 wrote: »

6) The British Jingoism: Granted it's a BBC show but do they have to put Union Jacks in all the time.....I mean the rasing of the flag to copy the famous rasing of flag at Iwo Jima was just cheesy.

Got any more examples? I don't see it.

Manach

Personally I rather enjoyed this episode. I'd agree about the Union jacks and the method of bomb disposal (the Prof. seem too much like Robin Williams Bicentenial Man). However, Spitfires in space, crippling an alien spaceship - a Brit. version of ID4.

K-9

Liked it overall. A few dodgy scenes from Matt, it was obvious the punch was totally fake, hardly his fault though. Just a few scenes reminded me of his inexperience as an actor, but I do think he has the capability to improve.

Loved the about take on the Daleks, my 11 year old loved that. The cups of tea, "can I be of assistance", Matt eyeing the Dalek going down the corridor and the extermination of the old Daleks.

The ending seemed rushed, though the spitfires was cool and appeals to the British audience.

Agree with everybody on the "human" part, though it was acted beautifully. Too weak and obvious.

Churchill was meh after seeing the Brendan Gleeson version.

Overall, happy enough, want to see Amy get more of a role, which I'm sure will come.

pixelburp

iUseVi wrote: »

"Dear BBC, please let pixelburp write some Doctor Who episodes, yours sincerly, a viewer."

I agree, my natural writing genius has been tethered for long enough! I propose for season 6 that we open with a 40 minute episode conisting of nothing but that bizarre "startled rabbit" impression Amy Pond does. It'll be edgy, left-of-field TV

jasonb

I thought it was the weakest episode so far. It was very rushed, not great acting and some of the plot elements were cringe-worthy ( the human emotions disarming the bomb, 3 spitfires in space etc. ).

Clearly the only reason for the episode was to kick-start the Daleks so they can come back in a big way in some future episode, and to hit us over the head with another 'crack / Doctor is always late' clue.

I noticed the film references are still coming strong too. Apart from the obvious 'Independence Day' reference, did anyone get the 'Where Eagles Dare' reference? The radio operator using the lines 'Broadsword calling Danny Boy' is straight from that film.

This was the first episode to make me think I'm not going to enjoy the season. The next episodes ( bringing back the Weeping Angels and River Song ) will either change my mind or confirm for me that it's going downhill.

One other thing. Was there some reason why we got a glimpse into the life of the radio operator who lost her boyfriend / husband who was a pilot, or was if just a bad attempt at trying to show us the horror of war?

J.