what bull?

whelan1

had to get rid of my smashing holstein bull yesterday as he turned wicked in the last few days , i am in 2 minds or more over whether to get another friesian or to get another breed any ideas, got a good few friesian heifers from him over the last year or so and have a good few to come from him yet

wiggy123

thats teh problem with them--as they age--they get wicked...
what about the other breeds, as in mountbellaire-seem quiet animals...
or a jersey bull...
or what about the Dairy shorthorn, normande, Ayrshire bulls--brown swiss,can u get them as stock bulls--not just ai!

http://www.thedairysite.com/breeds/dairy/

whelan1

jersey is definitely out ... had an angus bull with the cows a few years ago and there is always a market for the calves but we have none suitable for cows -sold one last week ...

wiggy123

or a good angus bull..
buy in your replacement heifers/either as maiden or calved each year!

as from insemination to parlour--how much does it cost to produce that heifer calf?? would it be
say €50+ for straw
€10 for scanning
€200+ to rear as a calf to say 6 months
€200 first winter
€50 to ai following year
€250+ to maintain it till it gives birth
thats €760 in total (am i miles off)
wouldn't be very up to date with dairy stock

What's a good heifer calve costing?? €250+
Maiden heifer what €700+
incalf heifer what €1100+
Calved heifer what €1300+

wiggy123

have you not...no bulls from last year?
i have 3 there at the mo for sale...2 march bulls+1 may..nice animals..not overly done

whelan1

we have 4 angus bulls but they would only be suitable for heifers at the minute , it would ruin them to put them with 150 cows at the minute

wiggy123

i hear ya....get mayb a hereford bull for them cows..if not wanting dairy for them?
or else get them blonde bulls--producing great calves

pakalasa

Whelan1,
When you say wicked, was he charging or just showing some agression like swinging the head from side to side?

Did you have a chain on him?

whelan1

he would stand at the top of the lane as you where bringing in cows and wouldnt let you by , you could hear him bawling miles away , was pawing the ground ... with young kids around the safest option was out . chain not an option as i saw a bull nearly die after getting the chain wrapped around an electric fence for a night - not a nice sight .. had had the friesian for 2 years and he was fine until this week

wiggy123

its that time of year..mating season! bulls do take on a new life, can be very dangerous

Tipp Man

whelan1 wrote: »

he would stand at the top of the lane as you where bringing in cows and wouldnt let you by , you could hear him bawling miles away , was pawing the ground ... with young kids around the safest option was out . chain not an option as i saw a bull nearly die after getting the chain wrapped around an electric fence for a night - not a nice sight .. had had the friesian for 2 years and he was fine until this week

Do you never put a chain on a bull??

We always do although they always manage to loose it. The father has had a few run ins with bulls in his time, including 1 which nearly killed him

whelan1

if you feel the need to put a chain on him then its time for him to go , better to eliminate the risk than have to look at it...after seeing the other bull with the chain wrapped round the electric fence i said never again

cjpm

whelan1 wrote: »

he would stand at the top of the lane as you where bringing in cows and wouldnt let you by , you could hear him bawling miles away , was pawing the ground ... with young kids around the safest option was out . chain not an option as i saw a bull nearly die after getting the chain wrapped around an electric fence for a night - not a nice sight .. had had the friesian for 2 years and he was fine until this week

Did you not even have a strong rope on him??

We had a dodgy HR for a while and he used to be calmer when had a rope on. Glad to have him gone now though i'll admit.

whelan1

i wouldnt be the most agile person in the world so had my escape route planned every day when i was bringing him in, we have an old jeep in the yard and he was lifting it up off the ground with his head:eek:

djmc

I had a freisan like that a few years back put a long rope on him but he still kept following me around the field.
One morning I got so sick of him I left cows the parlour yard put him in the box and took him straight to the mart he sold subject and I milked cows in peace.
I brought a rothbunt bull the next week and am happy with him.
I am looking for a norwegian red bull now for his daughters.
I still use ai and the bull to mop up.

whelan1

ye , i scanned 56 cows last week and the most of them are in calf to friesian .. will use ai for a week or 2 and then must make a decision on the bull

capslock88

Definitely agree with you about wild, aggressive bulls...better them gone than you!..i would also be against the chain option...they pull the nose off themselves, get caught in things and obviously you have that horrible caught in the fence possibility...i feel it just makes them worse, though generally our bulls are v quiet so havent ever needed a chain. A good, strong type of angus or hereford would prob suit you best...hereford would prob be quieter and easier to handle for your scenario....both breeds are very affordable this year...you'd get quality bulls for between 1500 and 2000 no problem...you could check out the society websites or the journal for sale dates...theres a hereford society sale in nenagh on saturday if that'd interest you...should be plenty quality affordable bulls i'd say..good luck with it anyway!

whelan1

lads have a look at at livestock section in done deal ... the blue bulls would they be able for a long walk or a lot of cows

djmc

The only problem I see with a beef bull on a dairy farm is replacment hefiers
are scarce and dear and will be more so after 2013 if no quotas are around.

djmc

I heard that blue bulls can only handle about 50 cows
Had some pure bread (fat ass cows) bb years ago and as my vet said you need to be a vet to own them.
Never again all sections and calves would drop dead as quick as look at you.
fr x bb should have nice beef animals though but would you have black and white calves and would they know at the mart

pakalasa

If he's that aggressive, time to get rid of him.
Only last week, heard of a farmer, not too far from me, that got attacked by a cow at calving time. She nearly killed him. To save him, the neighbours had to surround him in the field with 3 tractors. They also had to shoot the cow in the field.
And that's just a cow! :eek:

UPCS

Parthenaise bulls are very quiet, they are easy calving and easy to work with!

bogman_bass

I would use as much A.I. as possible for breeding replacements. Even more attractive this year with this advantage semen that NCBC are selling.
If using blues go A.I. you are always gonna get a good calf but you need a proven easy caving bull. Nobody want to go using a Jack on every cow!
Parthenise seem to be lovely cattle from what I've seen. bassically limos but quiter. thinking of getting a few myself.
Montbelliards are nice cows. Not overloaded with milk but very fertile, quite, give a good bull calf (a blue on a montbelliard cow is a smasshing calf) and the cows calve easy. only down side is I wouldnt use them on heifers

UPCS

The parthenaise are a double muscled breed and from experience they are wonderful to work with as we farm approximately 190 pure and crossbred parthenaise, you should go to this website as they have some more information www.unitedparthenaise.co.uk

rebel105

The catalogue for the high health status sale taking place on Monday, May 3rd at the Tully Performance Centre is available: http://www.icbf.com/services/tully/files/Tully_Sales_Apr10.pdf

vanderbadger

whelan1 wrote: »

had to get rid of my smashing holstein bull yesterday as he turned wicked in the last few days , i am in 2 minds or more over whether to get another friesian or to get another breed any ideas, got a good few friesian heifers from him over the last year or so and have a good few to come from him yet

noticed since my own bull went out this year he is a bit off, pawing the ground a bit when doing herding, nothing major. he is young charolais, only in his 2nd year, was quiet as a mouse always before now in yard or in field, thought it was just a bit of exitement after going out with cows but starting to wonder..hope the fecker isnt getting wicked now

wiggy123

just that time of year..hes gettin excited! will calm down when gets with the cows

vanderbadger

hopefully anyway wiggy, hes nice bull out of a goulding genetics bull called pinay, first crop of calves were ok, most calved easy enough, 2 big pulls. pinay got a good mention there in the journal there a few weeks back

wiggy123

that a Lim or Char bull? me an angus man

vanderbadger

charolais

red bull

I went the montbeliarde route 9 years ago. Milk yield went down but solids shot up, no health problems good fertility. Never goin back to holstein but Norwegian reds interest me a little. The focus has changed to solids produced

wiggy123

where woud you get a robunt bull?
have they a website(breed)???

djmc

I would be intrested in norwegian red bull.
My rothbunt bulls daughters are coming into the herd Im going for a four way cross FR X RB X NR X ?
Not sure what the 4th cross will be yet but either
Red holstien , sweedish red, Ayrshire,montbeleard or maybe jersey.
I would be intrested in hearing form anyone who has Ayrshires.
The swedish red cows I have which were came from ayrshire cattle are lovley cows light boned but good grazers fertile and good milkers.
I too am not too gone on pb holsteins there was a jersey farmer in last weeks journal who had a saying
Money in the bank is better than milk in the tank.
I think what he ment was holsteins will milk more but will cost you more
feed durgs fertilety mastitis etc.

whelan1

ye i read that and had that line going round in my head but jerseys would not suit me at all

bogman_bass

was at the highland show last year and the ayrshires made the black and whites look like muck. and these were good holsteins but the udders on the ayrshires were fantastic

bogman_bass

Dont discount the good old british friesian!

browned

i'd always be of the opinion if it aint broke don't fix it, if ur having success with the fresians why change to another breed and complicate thing. if ur having problems with fertility in ur herd then crossbreeding would be an option to cure it, but milk wise nothing beats a fresian.

as for which alternative breed to use to help fertility teagasc seems to think the Norwegian reds and jerseys are the way to go. the jerseys would give you the better solids but most farmers perfer bigger cows. the nr are very similar to fresians milk wise in terms of litres and solids but with surperior fertility and health traits.

snowman707

pakalasa wrote: »

If he's that aggressive, time to get rid of him.
Only last week, heard of a farmer, not too far from me, that got attacked by a cow at calving time. She nearly killed him. To save him, the neighbours had to surround him in the field with 3 tractors. They also had to shoot the cow in the field.
And that's just a cow! :eek:

that man's injuries are horrific 9 broken ribs, punctured lung, and his shoulder is mangled, he is lucky to be alive but has a long pain ful road ahead of him.

djmc

snowman707 wrote: »

that man's injuries are horrific 9 broken ribs, punctured lung, and his shoulder is mangled, he is lucky to be alive but has a long pain ful road ahead of him.

Thats unreal and from a cow but at least they shot the mad bit*h

Pacoa

Even more attractive this year with this advantage semen that NCBC are selling.

I've heard mixed reports about this stuff. Anyone used it and got good results??

whelan1

we used it , now we had a good few repeats which i am not putting down to it as we had repeats from other bulls will wait and see what calves we get

adne

whats advantage semen???

whelan1

its where you have something like a 57% chance of getting a female calf

wiggy123

57%.. thought they maintained it was 75% +....

whelan1

definitely not that high will look it up later

wiggy123

thought that figure was in paper no--maybe i'm wrong!
u not ai'ing ur fr heifers? with a FR..see angus bull with them whelan1

whelan1

whelan1 wrote: »

its where you have something like a 57% chance of getting a female calf

i was right

whelan1

wiggy123 wrote: »

thought that figure was in paper no--maybe i'm wrong!
u not ai'ing ur fr heifers? with a FR..see angus bull with them whelan1

had my friesian bull with them until a few weeks ago , he is now dead so put the angus with them ... most of them are scanned in calf

wiggy123

is there a male version of that..say for pedigree breeders!
as had another bull calf yesterday--a great big NKN bull calf..all good
4 of each so far! only 1 cow to go..gettin late in season for calving,due in 2 weeks i think...

ah right..so hes just cleaning up the heifers..u start bulling ur angus cows yet?
me want to start next week...none yet!

whelan1

we let the angus bull out to the angus cows about 2 weeks ago , estrumated a few of them first

wiggy123

so no ai'ing the angus cows..that the same bull as last year? he a good match to all ur cows