Bus Éireann and M3 motorway

BrianD

gjim wrote: »

Eh? How does it "not work"? There has been competition on ex-urban routes in the country for decades and many of the same private operators are still going (as is Bus Eireann) - is that not "long run" enough for you?

Who gives a sh*te that Bus Eireann have this or that on any particular route? If a private operator wants to try to tempt customers with a better (or worse for that matter) service, then let them. If they have more luxurious/modern coaches, better value, better timetabling, better journey times, then the customer benefits. If they don't, well the customer is no worse off.

You are seriously advocating a system of government granted monopolies for all scheduled coach services in the country; i.e. filling an office block with civil servants to issue tenders, judge submissions, monitor service levels, plan new routes, etc.? It would swallow tens of millions a year, for what exactly? To replicate the hames they've made of licensing routes in Dublin across the whole country?

Next you'll be arguing that there has been no consumer benefit to having competing operators providing flights between Dublin and London and that it "doesn't work" long term.

The route 109 is essentially a commuter route. Look at the flop that competition on commuter routes have been elsewhere i.e. the UK. While I am in favour of competition I don't believe it works well in these situations. The best option is to put the route out to a competitive tender with a set of standards that benefit the consumer. In the case of cut throat competition on commuter routes it will be the operators standards that apply and not the fare paying passenger.

gjim

Vic_08 wrote: »

Take away the editorialising and that is more or less a description of by far the best model for running a public transport system.

The major caveat is that it requires very good people to run it who have expertise in transport and the freedom to control the network for the common good without constant interference from vested intrests and political favours.

The TfL operation in London is a good example, the bus service is all centrally controlled with the result that as far as the public is concerned there is one all-inclusive network with one fare structure and complete integration.

You're very confused in your thinking if you imagine London buses is an appropriate example for this discussion. It's 50km to Navan - this is a coach journey not a trip on a double decker from Waterloo to Marble Arch. These are effectively different modes of public transport; the vehicles are completely different, the journey distances and times are not comparable, the ticket prices are not anywhere in the same ballpark and the business model for operators is completely different. Most significantly and fundamentally, it mostly does not depend on consuming finite and limited resources (urban road space and shelters/stop space) which have to be allocated and controlled. Come back with an example which is vaguely appropriate to this discussion.

Certain public transport modes absolutely require rigid centralized control and regulation (rail is an obvious example), some work much better when there is some centralized coordination and control (city bus services) but others not only don't benefit from it - they suffer when provision is by government mandated monopolies (e.g. air travel). Regional and inter-city coach travel is in the latter category.

If you think it isn't, test out your argument with REAL users of private competing coach services around the country. Tell them of how much better things will be for them if having a choice of different operators is done away with and instead we'll have a state agency (in the past this was CIE but presumably you'd need a new brand) make the choice for them.

KC61

The problem is how to serve the stops at Bracetown Business Park. That is what the current routing is for.

Perhaps a more limited local service is needed to do this, with the rest of the 109 services operating via the M3.

As bbk suggests there is a parallel with the 115 where some services still operate via Leixlip village, while the majority operate via the motorway.

As an aside, long experience in dealing with the bus companies as a customer has taught me that it pays to get in contact with the companies concerned in a positive way about getting routes/timetables changed rather than moaning ad nauseum about it.

etchyed, have you contacted Bus Eireann about this and as to whether they do plan to bypass Bracetown? That is generally the best place to start.

The relevant details are:

Regional Manager: Joe Kenny
Services Manager: David Lane
Address: Bus Éireann, Broadstone, Dublin 7
Phone: (01) 830 2222

Or perhaps use their facebook page - they are quite good at answering on that.

And before anyone has a go at me, I am not trying to be smart here. The best place to go is to ask the company themselves. They may well have plans to operate along the M3 and bypass Bracetown, but as Ham 'nd' Egger says on page 1 above that will depend on whether they get approval from the Department of Transport as it does constiute a change of routing.

etchyed

Firstly, thank you bkk for (finally) arguing your position reasonably. I still fundamentally disagree with you. I don't think arguing against a Clonee rerouting is small-minded or selfish and I'm still firmly of the opinion that all services should avoid Clonee, not just peak-time express services. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

KC61, I don't think you're being smart at all but if the bus has to continue to serve Bracetown and has no way of turning back then I don't really see that there's much Bus Éireann can do/that I can can do to influence them. My fundamental gripe with bkk was that he/she seemed to be denying my entitlement simply to say "That's a pain in the arse, isn't it?".

KC61

etchyed wrote: »

Firstly, thank you bkk for (finally) arguing your position reasonably. I still fundamentally disagree with you. I don't think arguing against a Clonee rerouting is small-minded or selfish and I'm still firmly of the opinion that all services should avoid Clonee, not just peak-time express services. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

KC61, I don't think you're being smart at all but if the bus has to continue to serve Bracetown and has no way of turning back then I don't really see that there's much Bus Éireann can do/that I can can do to influence them. My fundamental gripe with bkk was that he/she seemed to be denying my entitlement simply to say "That's a pain in the arse, isn't it?".

With due respect, if we all took that approach nothing would ever change. What have you got to lose by asking? Bus Eireann are usually good at getting back to customers.

I would imagine that there is some demand in either direction at Bracetown, but it hardly warrants every bus serving that stop. Perhaps two buses in either direction during both peak hours to cater for people travelling from Navan or Dublin.

mgmt

Bus Eireann is not allowed onto the M3 until a private operator establishes a significant business. Licences have been given out but have not yet been implemented by private contractors.