Kelly Pavlik vs. Sergio Martinez

nacho libre

deisedelight wrote: »

anyone have a new stream . mine is gone

http://www.justin.tv/celtmelt#r=E1Jd8d8~

Strange. it's working for me.

deisedelight

http://www.p2pstation.net/

this is back working for me

martinez just dropped

x PyRo

No way in hell was that a knock down.

Big Ears

I don't think it was a knockdown either, Pavlik leant on him with his left to put him off balance and cuffed him over with his right.

Martinez is having to stand in front of Pavlik a lot more than he wanted now.
He just doesn't have the stamina to keep moving like he did early.

x PyRo

Stunning 9th round.

nacho libre

Pavlik is being schooled again.

Big Ears

Pavlik's in trouble now, he's gotta get that right hand into the body.
With the cut he may have trouble not only seeing Martinez punches coming but timing Martinez himself, so he's got to go to the body which is easier to hit.

Wild_Dogger

he clipped his feet on the knock down .

Now , c'mon Sergio !!! smash it up

x PyRo

Surely Martinez has it now.

Wild_Dogger

Pavlik looks wasted ! .....

Big Ears

Pavlik needs a knockout, and his punch output is too low to get it.
Martinez is going to be the new Middleweight champion and fairplay to him.

magma69

Martinez has to get this. Delighted. Fair ****s

nacho libre

i should have gone with my initial feeling about this fight:P

kudos to those who picked Martinez.

Joe Musashi

Pavlik should get rid of that cutman no matter what the outcome now.

By the way, there's a rematch clause according to HBO so I presume we'll see it again. Martinez by, I would say, 3/4 rounds. It should be a clear decision win for him.

deisedelight

was the bute v miranda fight good?

digme

What a great fighter,knew he would be well able for pavlik.
Great fight.

digme

deisedelight wrote: »

was the bute v miranda fight good?

was just too short

Feargal as Luimneach

Pavlik looked weightdrained... He may move up....

nacho libre

digme wrote: »

3rd time lucky what a performance he put on tonight.
Martinez I love ya baby


yeah fair play to him. He knew he had to pull it off tonight to rejuvenate his career and did so emphatically.

digme

nacho libre wrote: »

yeah fair play to him. He knew he had to pull it off tonight to rejuvenate his career and did so emphatically.

You could argue really Martinez has never once lost a fight,delighted anyway he deserves it.

Big Ears

digme wrote: »

You could argue really Martinez has never once lost a fight,delighted anyway he deserves it.

Well you can't argue the Margarito loss, even Martinez says Margarito was just the better man back then.

digme

Big Ears wrote: »

Well you can't argue the Margarito loss, even Martinez says Margarito was just the better man back then.

I actually forgot about that, your right, never entered my mind.

deisedelight

did anyone see ep 2 of 24/7 tonite ?

was it gd

nacho libre

digme wrote: »

You could argue really Martinez has never once lost a fight,delighted anyway he deserves it.

well, you're right it could definitely have gone either way against Paul Williams. He knew he had to be convincing tonight to be sure of the win. So he well deserved it.

congratulations on your big win once again.

joepenguin

New middleweight champeen!! With Pavlik finding it hard to make 160, Bute left out of the super 6, and both of them fighting on the same televised show is it a fight that can be made at 168?

digme

Ya most people thought he won convincingly that night.
Those combos in round 9 and on were brilliant
Thanks nacho ill put it to good use.

Big Ears

joepenguin wrote: »

New middleweight champeen!! With Pavlik finding it hard to make 160, Bute left out of the super 6, and both of them fighting on the same televised show is it a fight that can be made at 168?

If I'm Bob Arum I run a mile from that fight. Pavlik vs the winner of Duddy-Chavez jnr is very likely to happen now.

Pavlik needs to get away from Jack Loewe aswell, the guy is just a terrible trainer. A Martinez rematch is winnable with the right team behind him(fire that cutman aswell), but with Loewe training him Pavlik would lose again.

If he can make 160 he's got to stay there, his size and power are his big advantages and up at 168 they won't be as pronounced. So whether it's Bute or not I really think he should avoid that division for as long as possible.

Wild_Dogger

Yes , I had a feeling Pavlik was drained .
He got straight onto the water , stepping off the scales !

He never looks in great physical condition either , and afaik he spends his spare time getting langered in bars .

nacho libre

I think he should forget about a rematch with the likes of Martinez as i don't see a new trainer making much difference. He is too one-dimensional and has no answer for a guy who is fleet footed and has good handspeed. if Martrinez had any power Pavlik would have been stopped last night.

Big Ears

nacho libre wrote: »

I think he should forget about a rematch with the likes of Martinez as i don't see a new trainer making much difference. He is too one-dimensional and has no answer for a guy who is fleet footed and has good handspeed. if Martrinez had any power Pavlik would have been stopped last night.

Loewe:' jab, right'
Loewe:'double jab, then right hand'
Loewe:'double jab, right hand, jab'

He's one dimensional because he's being told to be.
It's within his capabilities of beating Martinez with the right team behind him, but he won't get that team.

As I said before Loewe is a terrible trainer and if Pavlik is one dimensional(which he is) then that can be attributed to Loewe.

It took until the 3rd round for Loewe to even tell Pavlik he was head hunting.
I don't remember him mentioning to go to the body at all after that either.
Now my stream cut out for the 4th round, but I doubt Pavlik's turn around of using feints and countering Martinez after he drew he in was Loewe's idea I'm gonna guess it was just something Pavlik did.

When Pavlik started to doubt himself after the 2nd(which shows up major mental frailties he needs to address), Loewe was shouting at him 'don't do this', he was most likely only worrying Pavlik further. If he calmly informed him that Martinez was always going to start fast and win the early rounds(which is something they should of told Kelly in training), and once he stuck to his game plan, cut off-the ring, get Martinez reaching in and countering him, and going to the body often when it's his chance to lead, things would of been fine.

The thing is Loewe is so arrogant he didn't see Martinez winning any rounds at all and thought Kelly would bomb him out early. Anyway the guy is a crap trainer and seems a bit of a dickhead to boot, he's ruining Pavlik's career.

'jab, right hand !'

nacho libre

Big Ears wrote: »

Loewe:' jab, right'
Loewe:'double jab, then right hand'
Loewe:'double jab, right hand, jab'

He's one dimensional because he's being told to be.
It's within his capabilities of beating Martinez with the right team behind him, but he won't get that team.

As I said before Loewe is a terrible trainer and if Pavlik is one dimensional(which he is) then that can be attributed to Loewe.

It took until the 3rd round for Loewe to even tell Pavlik he was head hunting.
I don't remember him mentioning to go to the body at all after that either.
Now my stream cut out for the 4th round, but I doubt Pavlik's turn around of using feints and countering Martinez after he drew he in was Loewe's idea I'm gonna guess it was just something Pavlik did.

When Pavlik started to doubt himself after the 2nd(which shows up major mental frailties he needs to address), Loewe was shouting at him 'don't do this', he was most likely only worrying Pavlik further. If he calmly informed him that Martinez was always going to start fast and win the early rounds(which is something they should of told Kelly in training), and once he stuck to his game plan, cut off-the ring, get Martinez reaching in and countering him, and going to the body often when it's his chance to lead, things would of been fine.

The thing is Loewe is so arrogant he didn't see Martinez winning any rounds at all and thought Kelly would bomb him out early. Anyway the guy is a crap trainer and seems a bit of a dickhead to boot, he's ruining Pavlik's career.

'jab, right hand !'

Yes there is no doubt Loewe is a bad trainer. He obviously studied no videos of Martinez - or if he did he learnt nothing from them. No wonder Pavlik's confidence was shot early on.
As you say Loewe should have been telling Pavlik not to panic after the first few rounds and go to the body of Martinez, which would eventually take effect and slow the down the smaller man, thereby allowing Pavlik to close the distance and do some damage. That's the advice he should have been getting. however i question whether he has the ability to implement that advice against a good fighter, because when Pavlik was winning fights i saw things that i felt a boxer with good stamina, handspeed and feet could exploit. So Pavlik will do better with a trainer who has a clue, but i'd still see him losing to the likes of Martinez in a rematch.

Big Ears

nacho libre wrote: »

Yes there is no doubt Loewe is a bad trainer. He obviously studied no videos of Martinez - or if he did he learnt nothing from them. No wonder Pavlik's confidence was shot early on.
As you say Loewe should have been telling Pavlik not to panic after the first few rounds and go to the body of Martinez, which would eventually take effect and slow the down the smaller man, thereby allowing Pavlik to close the distance and do some damage. That's the advice he should have been getting. however i question whether he has the ability to implement that advice against a good fighter, because when Pavlik was winning fights i saw things that i felt a boxer with good stamina, handspeed and feet could exploit. So Pavlik will do better with a trainer who has a clue, but i'd still see him losing to the likes of Martinez in a rematch.

It's touch and go really, Pavlik dealt terribly with the cuts(as did his cutman ). If he were to get cut fighting Martinez again I think the Argentine would win no matter who was behind Kelly.

However I think Pavlik would have got the victory last night if not for the cut Martinez opened in the 9th. Pavlik won 4 rounds in a row until the 9th and was starting to get to Martinez more and more, it was looking like he may get that late stoppage. Now with things not working for Martinez it was obvious he'd have to turn up the heat again, but he was actually being outboxed by Pavlik in those rounds aswell as outlanded, it seemed Kelly had finally gotten to terms would Martinez now he couldn't use all that lateral movement.

But that cut turned everything around, Pavlik went into his shell and topped throwing punches, while Martinez got a second wind, upped his workrate and all of a sudden the energy was back in his legs again.
Pavlik really is a weak fighter mentally, I've no idea why he didn't just declare war in the last 3 rounds when it was obvious he couldn't outbox Martinez with impaired vision. It was kind of like he accepted he wasn't good enough and was going to lose. He seems a very defeatist character at times, perhaps he could do with the use of a sports psychologist.

Disappointed in a way though, with the way Pavlik fought last night Macklin would of stood a good chance at beating him. Sergio Martinez will be tough to dethrone, a Paul Williams rematch will surely come if Pavlik doesn't take an immediate rematch and he's the only man you'd give a 50/50 chance against him.

MarCn

good fight, i personally think martinez beat williams; i wonder if now williams will look to face martinez in a rematch now that he beat kelly (high profile fight) and now has a title at 160.

i know he wasn't pushing for one before; but when guys get some cache to their name via big win against name fighter or winning a title, all of a sudden that changes.

pavlik is in a bad spot; i think williams will pass on him to go for martinez and its obvious he is gonna have to earn a shot against martinez, an i don't think its gonna go better in a rematch.

i don't think kelly is a force at 168, an while he still is a name and effective at 160 he is no longer considered the beast he was initially; the loss against hopkins really took away his aura of invincibility and the fights w/taylor put a few *****s in it.

i wonder what is next for pavlik...i don't know he continues to be a world class guy consistently from this point on.

Spazdarn

Pavlik was very humble in defeat...

Moving up shouldn't happen, his size and strength are what's gotten him to where he is today.

Martinez would beat him in a rematch regardless of who's training him, Pavlik struggled to corner him and if Martinez adopted the same mentality he did the last night, get in and out... Pavlik would lose on points...

Duddy, Chavez winner looks likely...

nacho libre

Big Ears wrote: »

It's touch and go really, Pavlik dealt terribly with the cuts(as did his cutman ). If he were to get cut fighting Martinez again I think the Argentine would win no matter who was behind Kelly.

However I think Pavlik would have got the victory last night if not for the cut Martinez opened in the 9th. Pavlik won 4 rounds in a row until the 9th and was starting to get to Martinez more and more, it was looking like he may get that late stoppage. Now with things not working for Martinez it was obvious he'd have to turn up the heat again, but he was actually being outboxed by Pavlik in those rounds aswell as outlanded, it seemed Kelly had finally gotten to terms would Martinez now he couldn't use all that lateral movement.

But that cut turned everything around, Pavlik went into his shell and topped throwing punches, while Martinez got a second wind, upped his workrate and all of a sudden the energy was back in his legs again.
Pavlik really is a weak fighter mentally, I've no idea why he didn't just declare war in the last 3 rounds when it was obvious he couldn't outbox Martinez with impaired vision. It was kind of like he accepted he wasn't good enough and was going to lose. He seems a very defeatist character at times, perhaps he could do with the use of a sports psychologist.

Disappointed in a way though, with the way Pavlik fought last night Macklin would of stood a good chance at beating him. Sergio Martinez will be tough to dethrone, a Paul Williams rematch will surely come if Pavlik doesn't take an immediate rematch and he's the only man you'd give a 50/50 chance against him.

well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the outcome of a rematch:D however, i agree with you he needs a sport psychologist, as he seems to lack mental strength, then again when the person you look to guide you hasn't a clue perhaps that's understandable.

MarCn

magma69 wrote: »

Pavlik's power will be too much. Martinez is most certainly the more skilled boxer of the two, but people are underrating Pavlik due to his loss to Hopkins. He still punches twice as hard **** as anyone Martinez has faced and this is what will see him get seroquel a stoppage. Martinez doesn't have enough power to keep Pavlik at bay, so he will plough on and eventually wear him down and hurt him. I expect Martinez to be ahead on the cards before the stoppage but cannot see him outboxing Pavlik for twelve long rounds.

Pavlik is underrated now and Martinez is overrated. I'll be cheering on Martinez, he deserves a big win. Seems like a decent fella and no doubt can feel hard done by in his last defeat.

Serg finally gets his big win. He hits with power more effectively than anyone Kelly has fought. That added to the fact that he is super slick as shown by his domination of Cintron in that robbery of a draw. Serg is very much like young B Hop except he has power and he’ll catch Kelly like everyone else of note has, but with the ko power to keep him down. Finally that annoying Youngston crap ends from Larry merchant. TKO round 6 for THE NEW MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION Sergio Martinez.

magma69

Nice ninja edit there bud. Just so the others know. You just made a point which completely contradicted what you posted. You didn't even realise the fight was over and you backed Pavlik to win saying he is no Hopkins, you also accused me of saying Pavlik ducked Williams even though I said nothing of the sort in the post. You bluffer :rolleyes:

At least I'll put my hands up and say I got it wrong, what you just did was embarrassing. I can never take anything you say on this site seriously again :pac:

Big Ears

magma69 wrote: »

Nice ninja edit there bud. Just so the others know. You just made a point which completely contradicted what you posted. You didn't even realise the fight was over and you backed Pavlik to win saying he is no Hopkins, you also accused me of saying Pavlik ducked Williams even though I said nothing of the sort in the post. You bluffer :rolleyes:

At least I'll put my hands up and say I got it wrong, what you just did was embarrassing. I can never take anything you say on this site seriously again :pac:

I can't quite remember what he said but it was something along the lines of......'First off, Pavlik hardly “ducked” Williams. Pavlik had a very bad (documented) case of staph from a cut on his hand. Once that was settled Williams is the one who didn’t want the deal.
Regardless, Martinez is no Hopkins. Not even close. He also lacks serious power to knock out a big middleweight like Pavlik. I highly doubt Martinez can take 12 rounds of Pavlik’s power punching.'







normally I'd never post what people have edited out, but I'm making an exception with this.

makl

i think with just the 2 posts he'll be ditchin his username for a new one...