A warning about registered Gas Installers

I have seen a increase in unsafe gas installations under the RGII scheme, so as a warning i would be careful with any gas work that you have carried out, the scheme was designed to bring order to the gas industry but unfortunately it has had the opposite effect, it now like the taxi driver situation where anybody(some unskilled) have been encouraged to do the courses and get registered.

As it stands at the moment there is no requirement to have any training or experience in gas to become a RGII, the government is paying for the unemployed to go on the course and the answers are being given on the gas safety test papers to get people passed, with the lack of enforcement of any kind of basic standard the RGII scheme is pointless and for safety i would advise people to ask for references, there are lots of competent gas installers out there you just have to be sure you're getting one, Gary.

slavetothegrind

In what way Gary?

Ventilation? Pipework?
Did these guys leave a cert behind them?

I was asked for trade papers or a credible industry reference, was a while ago though.

Sure it's like the mastercraftsman sticker now, you can't drive a mile and not see one:rolleyes:

Joey the lips

Perhaps if other plumbers confirmed this the mods might make it a sticky.... As for checking references I have seen dodgy one's of those as well. Even seen a lad change his company name to nearly match another then follow the other around and use his references.

The real solution to this lies in enforcement and correct regulation as can be seen in the taxi situation.

I think the real dodgy plumbers lie in some of the new builds around the country. i believe there idea of gas testing was to switch it on and then ask.... " Can you smell it"


Anyway.... Thanks for bringing it to light.

Doing the sort of work i do i come in to contact with lots of installers and training schools, i know there are training schools with a 100% pass marks, my friend has just finished his GID, payed for by the government and he has no trade papers or a back ground in gas, i sat my GID last year and only 2 out of ten had a plumbing back ground and everyone passed even a fella who didn't understand the soundness test and why/what he was testing, also i was given the answers so i don't what that says about me, job seekers are given 100% funding for the courses.

As a gasman i feel knowledge and competents should be the requirements for working on gas, not the need for a job or because someone wants to give it a lash, i have dealt with a lot of emergency's in my time and i know how easy it is for things to go bang in the night and that's what make me concerned. Using plumbing fitting on gas is a bit of a silly, but luckily for one house holder this week i spotted it for them, Gary.

Joey the lips

Joey the lips wrote: »

The real solution to this lies in enforcement and correct regulation as can be seen in the taxi situation.

I am still waiting for my safety inspection:eek: from the RGII inspector, i have been on their books from the start, Gary

slavetothegrind

slavetothegrind wrote: »

In what way Gary?

Gas pressures is a big one at the moment, i am going out to appliances with a working pressure of 11mbar on average for low gas (minimum of 19mbar required) and the lowest being 4mbar because the fruitloop fitted a second boiler rather than turn up the heat output on the first boiler, with low gas, all you need is a second appliance not to have a flame failure device for it to become dangerous and end in tears.

I've had a site of Nat gas boilers on LPG where they melted a few before they realized doh...

In Dublin balanced flue boilers are being converted to open flue because the buildings are old, this practice is just wrong and dangerous but there are loads fitted like that.

As someone who served a apprenticeship, the idea that working with gas safely can be done after a 15 day course is just mental, Gary

bar26

gary71 wrote: »

I have seen a increase in unsafe gas installations under the RGII scheme, so as a warning i would be careful with any gas work that you have carried out, the scheme was designed to bring order to the gas industry but unfortunately it has had the opposite effect, it now like the taxi driver situation where anybody(some unskilled) have encouraged to do the courses and get registered.

As it stands at the moment there is no requirement to have any training or experience in gas to become a RGII, the government is paying for the unemployed to go on the course and the answers are being given on the gas safety test papers to get people passed, with the lack of enforcement of any kind of basic standard the RGII scheme is pointless and for safety i would advise people to ask for references, there are lots of competent gas installers out there you just have to be sure you're getting one, Gary.

Are you sure these gas courses are givin out so easily to just anyone? because with solar panel installation you need to be a qualified plumber or spark to sit the exam, and thats fas.

bar26

bar26 wrote: »

Are you sure these gas courses are givin out so easily to just anyone? because with solar panel installation you need to be a qualified plumber or spark to sit the exam, and thats fas.

As a qualified gas fitter i have a tendency to moan because it's what we do, i have heard story's of solders being given access to the courses for free and a few factory's that were closed down and the employees were given access to the courses with the entrance requirement wavered, but i heard this 3rd hand so i won't moan about that, from my own experiences it is not hard to get and pass the courses.

I am sure for some getting the course and passing was hard work, but i am also sure others have had a much easier time of it by being given the answers and being molly cuddled, cheapening the efforts of the people who should be registered.

Gas is a trade in itself, the shortest basic course for a City and Guilds qualification i could find is a year in the UK, i have found no gas courses for a qualification here in Ireland, anybody can pay to do two courses over 15 days and get papers to say their safe, knowledgeable and can work in the gas trade, if i were to say the same for electrical/plumbing/mechanics etc.. work, that after 15 days you can outfit a house or work on a car then people would have a problem with that.

I don't understand why gas safety/ training is diluted here, things can go bang very quickly without the correct knowledge and sadly with the way the RGII has run the scheme as a consumer you can't tell if you have a tradesman or a fruitloop in front of you holding the RGII id card, Gary.

JohnnieK

I totally agree with what Gary has said. The amount of unsafe situations I have come across is unreal. From gas hobs piped in qual-pex and isolation valves fitted on blow off's because the valve was passing.

I served a 5 year apprentiship by the time FAS were finished with us, and have worked in the industry for 11 years and have done fault finding courses. I am no were near as experianced as Gary but I would rather shoot myself than leave a half done job. If something happens it comes back to me at the end of the day.

I can also confirm about the entry requirements been wavered. I know of taxi men and every thing doing the GIS and GID and now they are going around servicing boilers (God help there customers).

I also know of people who are not RGI registered doing gas work and boilers and are not even insured. RGI make a big deal to make sure you have 6.5million public liability insurance. If this home insurance thing comes in it will be the best thing for the industry because hopefully it will root out the bad eggs.

Micky Dolenz

Gary, have you reported these unsafe installations?

yoshytoshy

This whole rgi thing is still realitively new here ,I'm sure it will improve as time goes by.

I've posted on this forum before about how to find good gas installers and recommend using the seai site ,for installers that meet seai standards.

The seai enforce manufacturers recommendations for installation.


My main concern about any body is ,how it handles the information it gathers about installations and servicing. Whats stopping it turning into a spam bowl.

Micky Dolenz

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Gary, have you reported these unsafe installations?

Covering my own backside is a given, as you know the buck stops with the last RGII on site, but to give you a insight in to what can happen, there is a small estate outside Dublin 30ish property's that had been commissioned by a Bord Gais agent, serviced by numerous Board Gais agents, what they didn't notice was the flame lift on the burners of the boilers on this site, i went there noticed the flame lift, investigated, found the boilers had been converted to open flued boilers and were taking combustion air from the utility which had no ventilation, but did have a extractor fan, the reason for the installer fitting the boilers like this was he had drilled his flue hole to small and couldn't get the correct flue in to the hole, so he found a smaller flue that was for exhaust gas only and opened up the boiler.

All this won't mean much to some, but to have a boiler with insufficient air for combustion can produce carbon monoxide and as the boilers were opened this can track back into the property. I shut down the boilers caused a fuss and because Board Gais had been responsible for the maintenance it was all sorted hush, hush between the installers and Board Gais, i personally have found it's my big mouth that gets a job sorted rather than the regs in place, so far anyway. Gary.

yoshytoshy

yoshytoshy wrote: »

This whole rgi thing is still realitively new here ,I'm sure it will improve as time goes by. .

It now being said when the GID are resat in 5 years then thats the time the fruit loops will be weeded out, and the reasoning behind allowing a large number to pass was to meet a European target, but that could just be gossip:)

Micky Dolenz

gary71 wrote: »

Covering my own backside is a given, as you know the buck stops with the last RGII on site, but to give you a insight in to what can happen, there is a small estate outside Dublin 30ish property's that had been commissioned by a Bord Gais agent, serviced by numerous Board Gais agents, what they didn't notice was the flame lift on the burners of the boilers on this site, i went there noticed the flame lift, investigated, found the boilers had been converted to open flued boilers and were taking combustion air from the utility which had no ventilation, but did have a extractor fan, the reason for the installer fitting the boilers like this was he had drilled his flue hole to small and couldn't get the correct flue in to the hole, so he found a smaller flue that was for exhaust gas only and opened up the boiler.

All this won't mean much to some, but to have a boiler with insufficient air for combustion can produce carbon monoxide and as the boilers were opened this can track back into the property. I shut down the boilers caused a fuss and because Board Gais had been responsible for the maintenance it was all sorted hush, hush between the installers and Board Gais, i personally have found it's my big mouth that gets a job sorted rather than the regs in place, so far anyway. Gary.

thats quite shocking. So they used a different flue elbow also? or was it devoid of an outer flue sleeve?

In fairness they were quite clever and went to a lot of trouble rather than redrill the hole, the used the flue kit for fitting a twin flue but just used the exhaust part, they pulled out the plug for where you would connect the combustion air side of a twin flue and that was the hole drawing air from the room. To get threw the wall they used the black terminal you would use for flat roofs, which gave the game away because when i pulled up you could see these black top hat like terminals sticking out of the side of the white wall, Doh..

yoshytoshy

In fairness there is inspections done on a daily basis by rgi.

I think this issue is probably a very ,very isolated incident. Knowingly converting a boiler from a room sealed boiler to a open flue boiler is bizzare.

The forms filled out for the job ,would have to have had room sealed ticked off on them.

Micky Dolenz

yoshytoshy wrote: »

In fairness there is inspections done on a daily basis by rgi.

.

Really? what would you base that assumption on?

JohnnieK

Name and shame Gary, it's the only way.

yoshytoshy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Really? what would you base that assumption on?

That my friend is an assumption right there ,I haven't made one.

yoshytoshy

yoshytoshy wrote: »

That my friend is an assumption right there ,I haven't made one.

O yes you have:p

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I think this issue is probably a very ,very isolated incident. Knowingly converting a boiler from a room sealed boiler to a open flue boiler is bizzare.

There are a lot of these installations, not as brutal as the one described but i know apartments where the air for combustion is either taken from above the false ceiling and the instillation looks like a twin flue arrangement or a shared flue for the block for exhaust gas only and the plug on top of the boiler removed and no permanent designed ventilation in some, all these have been looked at and missed/passed by Board Gais, even after i have thrown my toys out of me pram not all of these installation were made safe and are still this way today.

yoshytoshy wrote: »

The forms filled out for the job ,would have to have had room sealed ticked off on them.

The boxes are ticked room sealed but not everyone checks and assumes the boiler is intact. Gary.

yoshytoshy

gary71 wrote: »

O yes you have:p

Not in relation to what way rgi work

There are a lot of these installations, not as brutal as the one described but i know apartments where the air for combustion is either taken from above the false ceiling and the instillation looks like a twin flue arrangement or a shared flue for the block for exhaust gas only and the plug on top of the boiler removed and no permanent designed ventilation in some, all these have been looked at and missed/passed by Board Gais, even after i have thrown my toys out of me pram not all of these installation were made safe and are still this way today.

Thats beyond me ,I've never heard of anything like this.

The boxes are ticked room sealed but not everyone checks and assumes the boiler is intact. Gary.
But thats were the book stops and the reason for rgi,surely.

It's still early days as I said earlier ,hopefully things will work better.

I hope it gets better, it's just a shame they got it so wrong, there is a format for gas registration across the water which works very well.

yoshytoshy

gary71 wrote: »

I hope it gets better, it's just a shame they got it so wrong, there is a format for gas registration across the water which works very well.

You should have got mail from them in the last few weeks ,that would explain whats going on at the moment.

Nothing arrived yet, anything interesting?

yoshytoshy

I won't go into on the forum ,not sure that I should.

Micky Dolenz

Not in relation to what way rgi work

RGII have very few inspectors, They could not inspect everday if they wanted too. There is a massive problem at the moment where people are underqualified and RGII registered. They underprice because they are willing to cut corners.

From listening to old time gas installers, RGII is a bit if a sham.

EDIT. One installer has been reported to RGII at least three times for unsafe installations but still operates. Maddness.

As long as it's not about getting rid of moaning plastic Paddys.

yoshytoshy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Not in relation to what way rgi work

RGII have very few inspectors, They could not inspect everday if they wanted too. There is a massive problem at the moment where people are underqualified and RGII registered. They underprice because they are willing to cut corners.

From listening to old time gas installers, RGII is a bit if a sham.

EDIT. One installer has been reported to RGII at least three times for unsafe installations but still operates. Maddness.

We need a service like rgi in ireland because of the change in the market ,I think flogas are another company on the market now.

I think it will work fine ,given more time.

slavetothegrind

gary71 wrote: »

As long as it's not about getting rid of moaning plastic Paddys.

You really can't afford to get it wrong being made of plastic'n'all:D:D

You are right of course, surely inspectors would pay for themselves if a bad/dangerous install was found and a statutory 1000 euro fine issued he would only need one a week to cover his costs.
They must have a list of complaints to go through apart from random checks?

I have seen a few room sealed appliances with the flue exhaust only piped out and air in from the room.But not as elaborate as you mention!
There are still a lot of the old atmospheric aosmiths out there with way dodgy flue arrangements.

yoshytoshy

I can't help thinking the information in forums like this one ,only encourage people to chance their arm at gas installations.

I know people who post here mean well ,I do post here myself. But I'm always weary that some cowboys use the forum to get answers.

The more people read about the ins and outs of things ,the less they feel the need for professionals. Eventually you get people working on the actual gas appliance and services.

All due respect and i am all about safety, safety, safety but posting or not posting will have no effect in my mind, people are already doing it and they don't all have computers, fruitloops will always be fruitloops and the quality of gas installations is already at a low level and a bit of a joke, i know a site with 500 apartments where the average working pressure is 16mbar it was finished 2 years ago in Dublin and nobody cares.

Having gone down this road before when Corgi started, silliness was stopped by proper enforcement, enforcement here as far as i can see is nonexistent except for large sites, enforcement takes the idea of diy out of the equation and it makes installers who haven't the skills leave the industry because they are scared of the fines or prison if there are deaths, this is all well publicized across the water.

Mistakes were made when Corgi first started out, but they learned how to police the industry very well, instead of learning from those mistakes and looking at the format they use now with Gas safe, RGII wish to do there own thing which has led to this State sponsored silliness, i cover the whole country, i see sites and one of installs, i know installers and suppliers, i have heard of no one being stopped from working or fined, i wonder if it will take death(s) for these inspectors to get stuck in, i dearly hope not. Gary.

Micky Dolenz

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I won't go into on the forum ,not sure that I should.

The RGII aren't the CIA :P

yoshytoshy

gary71 wrote: »

All due respect and i am all about safety, safety, safety but posting or not posting will have no effect in my mind, people are already doing it and they don't all have computers, fruitloops will always be fruitloops and the quality of gas installations is already at a low level and a bit of a joke, i know a site with 500 apartments where the average working pressure is 16mbar it was finished 2 years ago in Dublin and nobody cares.

Having gone down this road before when Corgi started, silliness was stopped by proper enforcement, enforcement here as far as i can see is nonexistent except for large sites, enforcement takes the idea of diy out of the equation and it makes installers who haven't the skills leave the industry because they are scared of the fines or prison if there are deaths, this is all well publicized across the water.

Mistakes were made when Corgi first started out, but they learned how to police the industry very well, instead of learning from those mistakes and looking at the format they use now with Gas safe, RGII wish to do there own thing which has led to this State sponsored silliness, i cover the whole country, i see sites and one of installs, i know installers and suppliers, i have heard of no one being stopped from working or fined, i wonder if it will take death(s) for these inspectors to get stuck in, i dearly hope not. Gary.

I have a tendency to take offence when people say that all the standards here are non-existant. Myself and many lads working in this area ,go to a lot of trouble to get things done right and safe. It's actually very stressful at times ,keeping people happy and having all the necessary criteria met at the same time.

I personally don't know any cowboys working in the gas industry (thank god) ,people I've ever dealt with have good work and peoples concerns at the top of their list.

The biggest problem in Ireland over the last ten years is the way the construction industry in general has operated.
Most sites had trainee teens installing pipework ,with a few qualified lads overseeing everything. The amount of other faults in finished buildings is astonishing.

I don't believe we have as big a problem as you think, I put it down to the attitudes of developers and builders.

yoshytoshy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The RGII aren't the CIA :P

I didn't mean for it to sound like that ,it's just I'm sure theres something in there about not disclosing information.
Don't want to cause trouble here ,as much as for myself.

Micky Dolenz

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I didn't mean for it to sound like that ,it's just I'm sure theres something in there about not disclosing information.
Don't want to cause trouble here ,as much as for myself.

are you talking about the possibilty of a breakaway group?

yoshytoshy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

are you talking about the possibilty of a breakaway group?

Along those lines ,vote for the head of your area.:)

Micky Dolenz

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Along those lines ,vote for the head of your area.:)

I belive that there were two nominee's put forward for the Munster region, and you had to vote for two.

yoshytoshy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I belive that there were two nominee's put forward for the Munster region, and you had to vote for two.

There are good companies up on the dublin one to choose from ,they do inspect stuff properly.

yoshytoshy

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I have a tendency to take offence when people say that all the standards here are non-existent. .

My comments are not aimed at you and this is my industry to, you will find i write the standards of work in general, i know a good installer/installation when i see one and i am not people, i am a professional gas engineer, Gassafe and RGII registered working under Irish/ UK gas safety regs. In the past working as a British Gas emergency engineer i was unfortunate to see deaths and destruction due to explosions and carbon monoxide poisoning and had made reports on them, if my knowledge and experience was good enough for a coroners court, i should be OK here.

I can't help if you take offense, but i have more right to be offended, you get upset over my postings where i have to help clean up after unskilled installers, you getting upset doesn't stop the unsafe practices, if you want to take offense then go down to the training schools where the lack of entrance criteria and spoon feeding answerers has allowed non-skilled/qualified installers to work beside you.

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Myself and many lads working in this area ,go to a lot of trouble to get things done right and safe. It's actually very stressful at times ,keeping people happy and having all the necessary criteria met at the same time..

You're not the only one fighting the good fight, the decent installers i know spend a lot of time and effort putting things right after the fruitloops, i am a flag waver for proper installers and support them as much as i can, my phone is never off so i put my money where my mouth is, you talk about stress, i often have to explain to a customer that a new boiler that has cost a small fortune is not going to work, is damaged or needs to be replaced due to the RGII not doing their job properly even though they have a id card to say they are competent.
So you can understand why i get a bit angry, i am seeing the effects of the system as it is now, by RGII not doing there job properly it is allowing dodgy installers to rip of the people who buy my boilers, to see someone crying because they have been ripped off and have no money to fix their heating is not a comfortable thing.

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I personally don't know any cowboys working in the gas industry (thank god) ,people I've ever dealt with have good work and peoples concerns at the top of their list..

You need to get out more, your opinion is based on your work and you have a good crew around you, my opinion is based on my work a cross the country which is people buying my products fitting them and then getting called when things don't work, i see lots of installation and i am in a position to identify what is fitted to regs and if good working practices have been followed and if not what impact it's having on the installation, so out of the two of us who is better placed to take a snapshot at where the gas industry is at the moment.

yoshytoshy wrote: »

The biggest problem in Ireland over the last ten years is the way the construction industry in general has operated..

It may be one of them but i would say complacency has to be a factor, dodgy installers know no matter what they do or don't do there is no one checking their work (at the moment) they have a free reign to do what they want

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I don't believe we have as big a problem as you think, .

Again based on your experiences, my experiences are different to yours, all my jobs are boilers that are not working, day after day i am calling to these jobs, so the lack of competent RGII has a impact on my working day, if i find a decent installer i shake his hand and tell him i think his work great and i tell the customer how good the installation is, i don't see many like that, most of the time i am doing on site training to try to improve the installers skill set with the aim of having a quite life, so i am sorry to tell you the problem is bad from my dealing with the industry here. Gary.

martineire

I know an RGI out there that is a service agent for bord gais he is a service and repair guy for the last 12 years and all he does when servicing gas boilers is clean out the combustion chamber and check burner pressure is correct a 10 min job dragged out over 45mins, cup of tea and out the door no soundness test on appliance:eek: surely this must be done on a service.

yoshytoshy

gary71 wrote: »

My comments are not aimed at you and this is my industry to, you will find i write the standards of work in general, i know a good installer/installation when i see one and i am not people, i am a professional gas engineer, Gassafe and RGII registered working under Irish/ UK gas safety regs. In the past working as a British Gas emergency engineer i was unfortunate to see deaths and destruction due to explosions and carbon monoxide poisoning and had made reports on them, if my knowledge and experience was good enough for a coroners court, i should be OK here.

I can't help if you take offense, but i have more right to be offended, you get upset over my postings where i have to help clean up after unskilled installers, you getting upset doesn't stop the unsafe practices, if you want to take offense then go down to the training schools where the lack of entrance criteria and spoon feeding answerers has allowed non-skilled/qualified installers to work beside you.



You're not the only one fighting the good fight, the decent installers i know spend a lot of time and effort putting things right after the fruitloops, i am a flag waver for proper installers and support them as much as i can, my phone is never off so i put my money where my mouth is, you talk about stress, i often have to explain to a customer that a new boiler that has cost a small fortune is not going to work, is damaged or needs to be replaced due to the RGII not doing their job properly even though they have a id card to say they are competent.
So you can understand why i get a bit angry, i am seeing the effects of the system as it is now, by RGII not doing there job properly it is allowing dodgy installers to rip of the people who buy my boilers, to see someone crying because they have been ripped off and have no money to fix their heating is not a comfortable thing.



You need to get out more, your opinion is based on your work and you have a good crew around you, my opinion is based on my work a cross the country which is people buying my products fitting them and then getting called when things don't work, i see lots of installation and i am in a position to identify what is fitted to regs and if good working practices have been followed and if not what impact it's having on the installation, so out of the two of us who is better placed to take a snapshot at where the gas industry is at the moment.


It may be one of them but i would say complacency has to be a factor, dodgy installers know no matter what they do or don't do there is no one checking their work (at the moment) they have a free reign to do what they want




Again based on your experiences, my experiences are different to yours, all my jobs are boilers that are not working, day after day i am calling to these jobs, so the lack of competent RGII has a impact on my working day, if i find a decent installer i shake his hand and tell him i think his work great and i tell the customer how good the installation is, i don't see many like that, most of the time i am doing on site training to try to improve the installers skill set with the aim of having a quite life, so i am sorry to tell you the problem is bad from my dealing with the industry here. Gary.

First off ,I work with lads that are corgi registered and have worked in england for years.

Secondly ,when I refer to "people" ,I'm talking about you and others who claim that irish installations in general are of a low standard.

Thirdly ,I could post about stuff I've seen on jobs here on boards ,but I choose not to. I too have to call and fix things that others have made a mess of.

I refuse to join in creating the idea that the only people who care about safety and work ethics ,with regards to gas installations are people who happen to post here.

There isn't the amount of bad work you say there is in ireland ,maybe you see only bad work here ,because the company your involved with sells cheap boilers.

The price of the boiler shouldn't be an issue, a RGII installer is either competent or he is not, i speak to other manufactures engineers and my findings aren't unusual, i had the same views when pen and paper were the communication device of the day, it's how i was trained.

It's wrong to generalize so I'll stop, i could talk about the % of installations i visit and how many of them meet the installation requirements, but i won't harp on about it i am starting to bore myself, if i were to agree with you and say that the work here in general is very good then how do you deal with the one or two that are not, how do you remove the installers that are fitting the odd boiler to a low standard, how do you make sure that the one or two who get the GID and are unsafe, how do you stop them.

I do moan a lot it's my job it's what i do, you may think i am over doing it with my bitching, this post came about off the back of two bad jobs this week so the idea of this post was get people to check who was doing their gas work for them and that RGII id card is not a indication of skill, it should be and it could have been, the card should only be in the hands of competent installers, but theres one or two rogues;) and thats where my warning comes in because people are buying in to the idea RGII= good.

I obviously have different experiences than you but i will be much happier when my world resembles yours and some of these installers are stopped from working and i can post about happy things, Gary.

yoshytoshy

You'll find if you talk to the right people ,people who have worked at this for long enough ,that there is good regulation here for installations.
Cowboys come and go ,but where it really matters ,things are done right.

I have worked in Ireland for five years, i am known for my trouble shooting ability's, i have done a lot of work in the past for suppliers and other manufactures when they have problems, my work is 15% commercial and 85% domestic, if you were talking commercial installation then i would agree with you as the commercial installations here are second to none and i have had no installation issues just boiler or wiring problems, domestically i don't agree, i see a lot of installations that don't meet manufactures installation instructions, it's as simple as that, saying otherwise doesn't change whats in front of me, saying i am not talking to the right people isn't going to change the quality of the work i am seeing now, i find sludge and low gas pressure are the biggest problems which are the basics, there are decent installers doing a fine job i know but also there are crap ones, so far with lack of policing RGII have had no effect on the cowboy installers that i know, while these installers and the new entrance in to the industry who have no skill or experience are still fitting boilers then i will continue to advise people to vet their RGII as they can't tell by the RGII id what they have in front of them, I'll call it a day now as we have two different opinions and i just don't see it the way you do at the moment and as i love a quite life the sooner things get better the happier I'll be, Gary.

JohnnieK

I'm doing some installation work in south Dublin at the moment (sei grant work) and in one particular home there was a sticker on the boiler from Board Gais and the boiler was serviced annually for the last six years. First thing I done was to check the gas installation, I found a gas cock at the side of the fire place with out a cap on it. I asked the owner about the fire and he said it was taken out about three years ago. This has been over looked for three years by the service man. Also there was a 13amp fuse in the spur which should be a 3amp this to was ignored and this should be checked on a service too. The last date on the sticker was Feb 2010 and the burner looked as if it was never cleaned. Half the air intake on the flue was blocked which would of been noticed if the fan had of been taken out for inspection and cleaning like your supposed to do in accordance to manufacturers instructions.

I have a list as long as both my arms of boilers and gas installations not been serviced and checked properly and alot of them are Board Gais (not all I might add). That is what the problem is here. By right I should of contacted RGII about my findings and reported Board Gais. But people just dont do it.

I've also seen posters around north county Dublin from a certain company offering boiler services for €49. How they are properly servicing and inspecting the appliance and system and making money out of it escapes me.

I dont want to get into a battle here with anyone, these are just some of my experiences.
Also a pet hate of mine is installers taking the feed for the heating system for the main tank in the attic when a mains pipe is less than a meter away.
Now I got that out:D

JohnnieK

All this talk of bad RGI's has my mind distracted. I made a school boy error today wiring up a Vokera. I got the permanent live and the switched live mixed up. Doh. Do you see what you've done to me

FUNKY LOVER

martineire wrote: »

I know an RGI out there that is a service agent for bord gais he is a service and repair guy for the last 12 years and all he does when servicing gas boilers is clean out the combustion chamber and check burner pressure is correct a 10 min job dragged out over 45mins, cup of tea and out the door no soundness test on appliance:eek: surely this must be done on a service.[/QUOTE]

nope it is not a requirement on a service.

Micky Dolenz

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

martineire wrote: »

I know an RGI out there that is a service agent for bord gais he is a service and repair guy for the last 12 years and all he does when servicing gas boilers is clean out the combustion chamber and check burner pressure is correct a 10 min job dragged out over 45mins, cup of tea and out the door no soundness test on appliance:eek: surely this must be done on a service.[/QUOTE]

nope it is not a requirement on a service.

I'll think you find it is now a requirement since RGII took over. Test before and after.

JohnnieK

Micky under is813 it is not a requirment to soundness test the gas pipeline. It is a requirement to gas soundness test the appliance. I think that all of us here on this would do a let by and soundness test as part of good practise on a service after all it is one sure way of testing the appliance.

It's also a requirement under is813 to visually inspect the installation and other appliances, How many do that?

Micky Dolenz

JohnnieK wrote: »

Micky under is813 it is not a requirment to soundness test the gas pipeline. It is a requirement to gas soundness test the appliance. I think that all of us here on this would do a let by and soundness test as part of good practise on a service after all it is one sure way of testing the appliance.

It's also a requirement under is813 to visually inspect the installation and other appliances, How many do that?

I am aware of IS: 813. I was at a RGI meeting before it kicked off and was informed that a soundness test shall be carried out before service and after. 14 minutes all in. This information came directly from Willie Wilson.


Any service person worth their salt would test anyway before cover comes off boiler, even if only to cover ass. The visual inspection, most guys ran from as how do you explain to someone that it's not right when they retort with "it's been like that for 30 years" etc etc. Hopefully RGI can now change that by giving more shut down powers to it's members.

Information from RGII is fairly hard to come by though. Maybe we should get a list of questions to put to them to clear up matters.

yoshytoshy

There is absolutely no point in doing anything related to gas work ,without checking the gas line.

I've found things wrong with installations well after they were finished. One massive leak was where the builder had put a nail through the gas line ,three years previous.

It took this amount of time for the nail to rust and a leak to show on the line.

Anyone getting any work done with rgi ,should see one of these being used.
It's called a manometer