Left Wing Government within our grasp

GarlicBread

So, Eamon Gilmore calls for change and wants labour to be leader of a majority government. This is a good plan, but still a fatal flaw. FG and whatever is left over from FF will, combined, be to strong for labour to take alone. The other alternative is a Lab/FG gov, which of course is better than what we have now, but is still sadly lacking because on key issues FG will rule the roost.

As far as i can see, labour will again try to run it solo and will tell the rest of the left to feck off. I understand a little why they do this, alot of history and electoral tactics etc etc. But does this need to be anymore? Sure it would scare people to have a SF minister for justice, or even a communist in charge of education(better than the catholic church at least:D), but all that nonsense aside, the numbers show that a united left would overcome a solo FG. In fact the only thing that would stop a left wing government is a combined FG/FF, which may or may not happen in the circumstances.

Last time i went to vote i started at Labour and ticked all the left boxes through to SF and the rest. Why did i bother doing that if Labours tactics are to isolate and absorb the rest of the left. Surely, while this tactic is working very slowly, it is not working fast enough. If Labour wants real change it should start by looking at itself and by giving its own voters and the rest of the left a real chance of power, not some FG leftovers.

Gilmore would be in with a proper chance of taoiseach if only labour would accept the hand of friendship which is being extended to them always from the others in their political spectrum.

Could be a general election coming, who thinks the same or otherwise? Gwan, dont hold back!

SeanW

I'm sure there are plenty of moderate-left people who support Labour, who I would imagine would cringe at the thought of them going into bed with a ragbag of commies, murderers and headbangers.

In that case, Labour must have decided its core vote is average union members etc, and Eamon Gilmore must figure it's more politically viable to try to be Tanaiste in an FG-Lab coalistion government than to aim to be Taoiseach of a coalition type of coalition discussed above.

For my part, I remain satisfied that a 2/3 FG, 1/3 Lab coalition is what our country needs to get back on track.

GarlicBread

"going into bed with a ragbag of commies, murderers and headbangers."

A daunting prospect indeed when you put it in that perspective, lol. I would have thought it was the blueshirts who were the headbangers tho .

danman

Does this country need a government that's in bed with the unions, given the current state of expenditure? A leftist government would be a disaster right now.

Is this not, exactly what happened in Greece before christmas. A leftist government was voted into government and they wouldn't tackle their problems head on.

Labour in sole government, is exactly the opposite of what we need right now.

mike65

Its not often I resort to the :rolleyes: smilie but the OP demands such a curt response.

The left in Ireland is never, repeat never going to big enough to take power no matter how or indeed how many component parts are stiched together. Labour will not find much in common with Shinners, The Workers Party rump, the Socialist (AGM in a phone box) Party, People Before Profit, single issue independents. Or they with each other.

Can anyone imagine that lot hammering out a coherent manifesto and selling it to the property owning classes of Ireland? Not a cat in hells chance.

steelcityblues

The more I see/hear of Gilmore and this Labour, the term 'emperor's new clothes' comes to mind!

IrishTonyO

Have to say would be tempted to vote for Labour, however after their vote at conference to reverse the public service pay-cuts, it shows that they are far too concerned with unions and in my honest opinion unions are the last thing we need to have a voice in our economy at the moment.
Also really don't think they will be in a position to be the majority in a new government. Gilmore and a few others I find very good however it is some of their policies that turn me off.
And there is no chance of them setting up a respected government capable of lasting the term with a mish mash of other left loony types.

The Volt

While it might not come to be that Labour will the largest party, that is what they have to aim for. What happens at the ballots happens but then and only then should they be prepared to negotiate with another political entity.

Gilmore's speech was immense last night. Was also impressed with the ruthlessness of Joan Burton in calling for a transparent, public banking enquiry to ensure accountability for the mess that Fianna Fail have led us into.

kev9100

Voltwad wrote: »

While it might not come to be that Labour will the largest party, that is what they have to aim for. What happens at the ballots happens but then and only then should they be prepared to negotiate with another political entity.

Exactly. One of my biggest pet peeves with Labour is that far too long they have been willing to play second fiddle to FG. We have the better leader and the better policies so we should be the driving force in opposition and in any future LAB/FG government.

The Volt

kev9100 wrote: »

Exactly. One of my biggest pet peeves with Labour is that far too long they have been willing to play second fiddle to FG. We have the better leader and the better policies so we should be the driving force in opposition and in any future LAB/FG government.

Labour really are the only party than can deliver real change.

dvpower

Many Labour voters, for example, those from middle class south Dublin constituencies where Labout have been sucessful, would baulk at the idea of a Labour led left wing coalition.

Many like the idea of Labour playing a part in government. Leading a government is another kettle of fish.

ei.sdraob

Voltwad wrote: »

Labour really are the only party than can deliver real change.

Them getting in bed with the unions have proven that they can not deliver "change"

I am ashamed for giving them a vote in the past

IrishTonyO

Voltwad wrote: »

While it might not come to be that Labour will the largest party, that is what they have to aim for. What happens at the ballots happens but then and only then should they be prepared to negotiate with another political entity.

Gilmore's speech was immense last night. Was also impressed with the ruthlessness of Joan Burton in calling for a transparent, public banking enquiry to ensure accountability for the mess that Fianna Fail have led us into.

Have you looked into how labour will pay for a reversal of public sector pay-cuts? How will they pay for the transport policies they want? A lot of their policies will mean a lot higher taxes here.

The Volt

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Have you looked into how labour will pay for a reversal of public sector pay-cuts? How will they pay for the transport policies they want? A lot of their policies will mean a lot higher taxes here.

They have openly said that they're not afraid to raise taxes. Of course everyone is still going to feel the pinch but I'm confident that there'd be a higher tax bracket introduced as well as salary caps.

IrishTonyO

Voltwad wrote: »

They have openly said that they're not afraid to raise taxes. Of course everyone is still going to feel the pinch but I'm confident that there'd be a higher tax bracket introduced as well as salary caps.

So you think that raising taxes will get us out of our economic situation? It has been tried before many time in many countries, Ireland included and it has never worked.

PeakOutput

to be blunt

if labour ever get into power as a majority we are all ****ed

The Volt

PeakOutput wrote: »

to be blunt

if labour ever get into power as a majority we are all ****ed

Don't be blunt, elaborate.

PeakOutput

Voltwad wrote: »

Don't be blunt, elaborate.

a far left ideology will completely destroy the country

caving into to unions will destroy the country

high corporation taxes will destroy the country

even higher taxes on the well off to pay for further inflation of the public service and social welfare will destroy the country

an ideology that advocates massive parts of the economy being nationalised will completely destroy the country

the far left have their place and that is to keep the far right in check while the center right and center left make the important decisions.

edit; and we dont currently have and wont have a far right goverment, there is no far right party in ireland, ff and fg are both pretty much in the center

steelcityblues

Stilll too many idiotic ideas, like calling for a new state bank, suppporting Lisbon and not addressing (as of yet) immigration.

Gilmore and most of the party are essentially statist who will model themselves as left libertarians for the next election.

thebaldsoprano

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Have to say would be tempted to vote for Labour, however after their vote at conference to reverse the public service pay-cuts, it shows that they are far too concerned with unions and in my honest opinion unions are the last thing we need to have a voice in our economy at the moment.

In fairness they did ask their members, but I have to say, it's a bizarre decision for a supposedly left leaning party to make. According to this CSO report that would have the public sector earning 35% more to the private sector. Add in decreases to private sector wages since things started going South and we could be look at 40% or more. The only two ways they can get more money are from borrowing or tax. Given that our budget deficit is comparable to Greece, more borrowing could well lead to not so left leaning IMF getting interested, so they're probably not going to go with that. That leaves tax increases, which will cost jobs for the PS' poorer private sector cousins and add to the 430,000 already on the dole. So in effect we have a 'left' leaning party looking out for the well protected higher echelons!

Thankfully though, the 360,000 (according to this) votes they're trying to buy won't be enough to get them a majority and with this kind of pandering they're unlikely to get many votes outside that group. I'd imagine there'll be a good few PS workers who'll see right through this as well.

I was also considering voting for them given that they were the only main party with the sense to oppose the initial bank bailout, but no chance of that now. I'll be looking further to the left and right to see what parties there might have to offer.

IrishTonyO

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

In fairness they did ask their members, but I have to say, it's a bizarre decision for a supposedly left leaning party to make. According to this CSO report that would have the public sector earning 35% more to the private sector. Add in decreases to private sector wages since things started going South and we could be look at 40% or more. The only two ways they can get more money are from borrowing or tax. Given that our budget deficit is comparable to Greece, more borrowing could well lead to not so left leaning IMF getting interested, so they're probably not going to go with that. That leaves tax increases, which will cost jobs for the PS' poorer private sector cousins and add to the 430,000 already on the dole. So in effect we have a 'left' leaning party looking out for the well protected higher echelons!

Thankfully though, the 360,000 (according to this) votes they're trying to buy won't be enough to get them a majority and with this kind of pandering they're unlikely to get many votes outside that group. I'd imagine there'll be a good few PS workers who'll see right through this as well.

I was also considering voting for them given that they were the only main party with the sense to oppose the initial bank bailout, but no chance of that now. I'll be looking further to the left and right to see what parties there might have to offer.

I emailed my local labour TD, who got my number 2 last election and also the labour party and told them that by pursuing this policy of a reversal of pay-cuts in PS would make me not even give them a preference at all.
I am waiting to hear the response as to how they will justify this action and how they will pay for it.

Sulmac

Although I like Labour, and (at the moment anyway) would give them my second preference, Gilmore's speech was full of ideas and "catchphrases" from other parties - particularly FG.

As part of our jobs strategy, Labour will take 2 billion euro from the Pension Reserve Fund and establish a Strategic Investment Bank that will put €20billion Euro to work in our economy. The new Bank will have a joined up approach, providing finance for innovative companies and small firms, that are the backbone of this economy, but also helping to finance the infrastructure that they need to succeed.

FG proposed this ages ago (the "National Recovery Bank"), and even welcomed Labour's similar plans - but Labour haven't acknowledged that FG have the same idea.

Investment in networks like renewable energy, next generation communications, smart grids. Creating the environment for a new wave of Irish companies, that can seize the opportunities of a new world economy.

NewERA anyone?

In our first Budget, Labour will establish a dedicated Jobs Fund, to finance measures that create and support employment.

Such as a PRSI break for companies that create new jobs.

FG policy again.

Labour's Graduate and Apprentice Programme will provide work experience for 30,000 young people - to break the cycle where you can't get a job without experience and you can't get experience without a job.

And again.

It is almost ten years since Labour first proposed a new way to organise and fund the health service. It would bring together the resources already being used in a more focused, intelligent and fairer way. Making sure that money follows the patient. And that medical need and not money decides who is the patient in the first place. We called it Universal Health Insurance.

While this is true, they have yet to produce any kind of detailed policy document on the area (or even basics, whether it'll be universal social insurance or mandated private insurance!), whereas FG (FairCare) have, as have the IMO and Adelaide Hospital Society.

Labour believes in good public services. Labour respects public servants. We want public service reform, so that the services remain and are improved and that the public service is a good place in which to work.

In Government, Labour will establish a Department for Public Service Reform, to get on with the job, rather than just talk about it.

See this and this.

What I propose is a constitutional convention. A coming together of all strands of Irish society to redraw our Constitution.

This is basically the same as FG's "People's Assembly" proposals in their NewPolitics document.

One Ireland. An Ireland of equals.

---

Even other speeches and policies were remarkably similar to those proposed by other parties, despite Labour yearning to portray themselves as somehow "different".

That is why Labour, in Government, will establish a National Forum on Patronage and Pluralism in the primary sector with participation from all of the stake holders so as to provide a wider range of choice and ethos in our primary schools.

From Ruairí Quinn's speech, now look at Brian Hayes' speech at FG's recent conference:

We also need a National Forum on Education to deal in a public way with the issues of ownership, control and patronage. All of the partners, political parties, parents need to trash out in public, similar to the New Ireland Forum in the 1980s, all of the issues that relate to patronage. The old fashioned way of the Department of Education simply having secretive bilateral talks with the churches and others is over. This is a matter of public debate and the Forum would help people be engaged with the issues to hand.

---

Labour seem to have snatched various policies, slogans and general ideas from other groups, but unlike them have yet to produce detailed and costed plans. They seem to be a party of rhetoric, and seriously need to get their act together and stop treating us like fools by passing other parties' policies off as their own. Although the good aspect of this means that FG and Labour would be able to form a government relatively easily (although the issue of the unions has still to be addressed).

That said, I'd still take them over FF any day, particularly as they have some standards of public office.

thebaldsoprano

IrishTonyO wrote: »

I emailed my local labour TD, who got my number 2 last election and also the labour party and told them that by pursuing this policy of a reversal of pay-cuts in PS would make me not even give them a preference at all.
I am waiting to hear the response as to how they will justify this action and how they will pay for it.

I think I'll do the same. I was very impressed with my Labour TD's response when I wrote over the bank bailout - it would be a shame to see them descend into this type of shenanigans...

Pride Fighter

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Have to say would be tempted to vote for Labour, however after their vote at conference to reverse the public service pay-cuts, it shows that they are far too concerned with unions and in my honest opinion unions are the last thing we need to have a voice in our economy at the moment.
Also really don't think they will be in a position to be the majority in a new government. Gilmore and a few others I find very good however it is some of their policies that turn me off.
And there is no chance of them setting up a respected government capable of lasting the term with a mish mash of other left loony types.

The Labour party was founded 98 years ago as the political wing of the trade union movement. That link is unbreakable and it is part of what makes the Labour party what it is. People should not be frightened of Unions. 850,000 Irish workers are in Unions. Unions are institutions that protect workers rights. But with that said there is more to the Labour party than the trade union movement.

The speech was a great rallying cry for Ireland and its people. It had substance as well. Obviously in a 25 minute slot you cannot put in everything. Labour has written up new policies for the conference, and re-jigged some old ones like the 2000 cure our ills policy document on universal health. That is an excellent scheme for health which the IMO support, as a result it will be easier to deal with the vested interests in Irish health care and it would be possible for a Labour health minister to secure savings in healthcare by reducing the wages of doctors and consultants earning over 200,000 per annum.

Ruairi Quinn released a brand new policy document on education and it blew me away. Its not on the website yet but it is going to revamp Irish education and make it, potentially the best in the world.

http://www.labour.ie/policy/

The above link shows Labours current policies, have a read through, I think you'll find them sensible and rational.

ei.sdraob

Pride Fighter wrote: »

That link is unbreakable and it is part of what makes the Labour party what it is. People should not be frightened of Unions. 850,000 Irish workers are in Unions. Unions are institutions that protect workers rights.

Your pulling the piss are you? :rolleyes:

Modern day unions are not protecting workers they are a modern day version of a cartel, threatening to derail the economy further at a bad time and have hurt the general population via their actions

Fear is the only card these mad hatters have left



Unless they distance themselves from these thugs Labour will lose voters, especially if there is more industrial action, while Labour have done good things at the local level I will not even consider them again

IrishTonyO

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The Labour party was founded 98 years ago as the political wing of the trade union movement. That link is unbreakable and it is part of what makes the Labour party what it is. People should not be frightened of Unions. 850,000 Irish workers are in Unions. Unions are institutions that protect workers rights. But with that said there is more to the Labour party than the trade union movement.

The speech was a great rallying cry for Ireland and its people. It had substance as well. Obviously in a 25 minute slot you cannot put in everything. Labour has written up new policies for the conference, and re-jigged some old ones like the 2000 cure our ills policy document on universal health. That is an excellent scheme for health which the IMO support, as a result it will be easier to deal with the vested interests in Irish health care and it would be possible for a Labour health minister to secure savings in healthcare by reducing the wages of doctors and consultants earning over 200,000 per annum.

Ruairi Quinn released a brand new policy document on education and it blew me away. Its not on the website yet but it is going to revamp Irish education and make it, potentially the best in the world.

http://www.labour.ie/policy/

The above link shows Labours current policies, have a read through, I think you'll find them sensible and rational.

Like I say when they have decided to campaign for a reversal of pay-cuts in the Public Service, that's enough for me at the moment and puts me off them completely. Have always found Labour to be good a sound-bytes and saying what people want to hear but when pressed on how they will pay for their policies they seem to always come up short. Policies are fine but if you don't know how you are going to pay for them well that's another story.
Personally I have no time for unions, any experience I have had with them has always been bad, and in my opinion labour's tie with the unions does them more harm than good. I think I would almost certainly vote for labour next election except for this.

thebaldsoprano

Pride Fighter wrote: »

People should not be frightened of Unions.

TBH, I find them at least as frightening as FF!

PeakOutput

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Your pulling the piss are you? :rolleyes:

Modern day unions are not protecting workers they are a modern day version of a cartel, threatening to derail the economy further at a bad time and have hurt the general population via their actions

Fear is the only card these mad hatters have left

i was thinking about this today on the bus i think its crazy that you have these full time professional unionists(word??)

and it should be stopped at all costs as they really have no dog in the fight so to speak accept their own aims

if workers were voted from within the workforce to some form of sabbatical position that was paid for a certain term i think we would have a far better union movement in this country, each main department gets one sabbatical position and they work together over their term to further / defend their workers rights. they are experienced in the area they are advocating so i believe ould do a far better job and be far more reasonable, if the workers dont think they are doing their job they can be voted out at the next election

Pride Fighter

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Your pulling the piss are you? :rolleyes:

Modern day unions are not protecting workers they are a modern day version of a cartel, threatening to derail the economy further at a bad time and have hurt the general population via their actions

Fear is the only card these mad hatters have left



Unless they distance themselves from these thugs Labour will lose voters, especially if there is more industrial action, while Labour have done good things at the local level I will not even consider them again

The only people who have hurt the general population are Fianna Fail. Workers, public and private have either lost their jobs or taken savage pay cuts. This was because of Fianna Fail, not the trade unions. As for derailing the economy raising VAT by half a percent, blanket guarantee's, ploughing over 70 billion into NAMA and the banks. These have derailed the economy. Take a bow Fianna Fail, Brian Lenihan and Brian Cowen.

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Like I say when they have decided to campaign for a reversal of pay-cuts in the Public Service, that's enough for me at the moment and puts me off them completely. Have always found Labour to be good a sound-bytes and saying what people want to hear but when pressed on how they will pay for their policies they seem to always come up short. Policies are fine but if you don't know how you are going to pay for them well that's another story.
Personally I have no time for unions, any experience I have had with them has always been bad, and in my opinion labour's tie with the unions does them more harm than good. I think I would almost certainly vote for labour next election except for this.

It is a fundamental right to join or form a union. Unions are not some baddies who steal from people, that is Fianna Fail. Labour have good policies, vote according to policy.

Permabear

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Permabear

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Call Me Jimmy

What I don't understand is how someone could complain about the situation at the moment and want bigger government?

Give the government more money to piss away?

IrishTonyO

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The only people who have hurt the general population are Fianna Fail. Workers, public and private have either lost their jobs or taken savage pay cuts. This was because of Fianna Fail, not the trade unions. As for derailing the economy raising VAT by half a percent, blanket guarantee's, ploughing over 70 billion into NAMA and the banks. These have derailed the economy. Take a bow Fianna Fail, Brian Lenihan and Brian Cowen.



It is a fundamental right to join or form a union. Unions are not some baddies who steal from people, that is Fianna Fail. Labour have good policies, vote according to policy.

The unions don't hurt people? tell that to the people who had to cancel holidays because of the passport office, to the people who can't get through on the telephone to government departments.
Maybe if the unions campaigned for an efficient public service they might have a place
Have a look a Labours pre-election manifesto before the last election and tell me how they thought they could fund their polices. Policies are all well and good but like I said before unless you know where you are going to get the funding to do them from they don't mean squat.

PeakOutput

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Labour have good policies, vote according to policy.

lol their policies are laughable and again would destroy the country for good

steelcityblues

Pride Fighter wrote: »

It is a fundamental right to join or form a union. Unions are not some baddies who steal from people, that is Fianna Fail. Labour have good policies, vote according to policy.

You could argue that is a fundamental right to join a union that won't hold the public to ransom, does not work on a pyramid basis and one which won't delibarately shut out/play down certain memebers views.

Otherwise, no!

ei.sdraob

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The only people who have hurt the general population are Fianna Fail. Workers, public and private have either lost their jobs or taken savage pay cuts. This was because of Fianna Fail, not the trade unions. As for derailing the economy raising VAT by half a percent, blanket guarantee's, ploughing over 70 billion into NAMA and the banks. These have derailed the economy. Take a bow Fianna Fail, Brian Lenihan and Brian Cowen.



It is a fundamental right to join or form a union. Unions are not some baddies who steal from people, that is Fianna Fail. Labour have good policies, vote according to policy.

Yes FF have brought the country to its knees
but
the Unions are ensuring it will never get back up

:mad:

Im actually quite pissed of about the "protecting the workers rights" bit

what workers rights exactly are being protected here?

* the right to a guaranteed employment at a time when many people dont have a job?
* the right to be paid more than the average "worker"?
* the right to endebt the future generations in order to get fat salaries today?

sick

im sorry but dont give me that crap and try to victimise the Unions and somehow excuse Labour and their involvement

The unions are not protecting the workers, they are protecting a privileged and spoiled over class that has gotten itself lodged in a position where they can hold a gun to the day to day running of the state! and lets not forget that for many years they ate out of the same trough as FF

.

btard

PeakOutput wrote: »

a far left ideology will completely destroy the country

caving into to unions will destroy the country

high corporation taxes will destroy the country

even higher taxes on the well off to pay for further inflation of the public service and social welfare will destroy the country

an ideology that advocates massive parts of the economy being nationalised will completely destroy the country

the far left have their place and that is to keep the far right in check while the center right and center left make the important decisions.

edit; and we dont currently have and wont have a far right goverment, there is no far right party in ireland, ff and fg are both pretty much in the center

In case you havent noticed, the country has already been well and truly destroyed and it wasn't leftist policys that did it.

Don't worry about it though. Gilmore and his party are no different than the rest of the them. They will sell their souls and everyone else to get the power they crave. Any politician who says he will reverse the PS paycuts is a barefaced liar. They have no intention of changing the status quo when they get in. It has already been decided that the ordinary worker and the poor will carry the can for the robbing incompetant *****. If voting changed anything the ***** would abolish it. So you can all relax.

sron

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

What I don't understand is how someone could complain about the situation at the moment and want bigger government?

Give the government more money to piss away?

I think he's implicitly asking for a good government. I doubt he'd be happy with a left coalition wasting money at the same rate as the current crowd.

Call Me Jimmy

Good government? lol

PeakOutput

btard wrote: »

In case you havent noticed, the country has already been well and truly destroyed and it wasn't leftist policys that did it.

nope, not yet it hasnt it has been severely damaged but it is far from destroyed

Eliot Rosewater

Pride Fighter wrote: »

As for derailing the economy raising VAT by half a percent ... These have derailed the economy.

But yet,

Voltwad wrote: »

They have openly said that they're not afraid to raise taxes. Of course everyone is still going to feel the pinch but I'm confident that there'd be a higher tax bracket introduced as well as salary caps.

Once again, the abuse of economics. Pluck it out when you need it, but hide it under a veneer of vague rhetoric such as "fairness" and "equality" when it begins to pinch.

Nodin

PeakOutput wrote: »

to be blunt
if labour ever get into power as a majority we are all ****ed

....because we've been so well served by the others, after all.

PeakOutput wrote: »

a far left ideology will completely destroy the country

The Irish Labour Party "far left".....? I may have to revise my previously liberal stance on the legalisation of certain substances if this kind of thing keeps cropping up....

PeakOutput

Nodin wrote: »

....because we've been so well served by the others, after all.

never said we were but now is not the time to be increasing the cost of investment and pandering to unions

Nodin

Once they're in there (in the event they get in), I think a look at the books will reveal theres no room to pander to anyone. In addition, despite the occasional outburst from the Union movement, I think they know it too. Theres been a gradual slowing of the rhetoric over the last few months (or at least it appears thus to me).

Dob74

PeakOutput wrote: »

a far left ideology will completely destroy the country

caving into to unions will destroy the country

high corporation taxes will destroy the country

even higher taxes on the well off to pay for further inflation of the public service and social welfare will destroy the country

an ideology that advocates massive parts of the economy being nationalised will completely destroy the country

the far left have their place and that is to keep the far right in check while the center right and center left make the important decisions.

edit; and we dont currently have and wont have a far right goverment, there is no far right party in ireland, ff and fg are both pretty much in the center

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

What I don't understand is how someone could complain about the situation at the moment and want bigger government?

Give the government more money to piss away?

Give the government more money to piss into NAMA?
To save private sector companies that should have been aloud fail.

At least union workers put most of there money back into the economy.
Not piss it down the drain lending it to some gambeen buying a view arces of re-zoned land outside Carrick-on-shannon

danman

Dob74 wrote: »

At least union workers put most of there money back into the economy.
Not piss it down the drain lending it to some gambeen buying a view arces of re-zoned land outside Carrick-on-shannon

I didn't know overseas companies/investers had bought up large amounts of land around Carrick-on-shannon, before the boom?

Clever people those investers. How did they know that the banks would lend money to stupid developers, so they could take all the money out of the country?

If only it was Irish people that owned that land, the money could have gone back into the economy, just like the PS workers wages that you talk about.

Damn those overseas companies/investers......

Permabear

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Joey the lips

Eamonn gilmore will never ever get into goverment as labour party leader..... and his blind vision is too poor to see it. I think Enda kenny is a terriable leader.(Lovely man) I would vote for enda kenny before I would ever vote for eamonn gilmore...

Why....

Because he is NOT a socialist. He is NOT a trade unionist. He is NOT a man of political conviction and granted Fianna fail cannot be trusted but they will do the job. His announced plans to reduce public sector cutbacks whilst increasing spending can only mean more borrowing and thus putting us into more debt.

I am sorry to say eammon gilmore is an oppertunist. Like pat rabbit. They have traveled a long road from the IRA to the workers party to Democratic left to labour. If this were a job interview the first thing he would be asked is why so many jobs... He cannot be trusted. As i said he is proven to be in this game for himself and like Michael lowry only his own will vote for him because no one else will.

Dob74

danman wrote: »

I didn't know overseas companies/investers had bought up large amounts of land around Carrick-on-shannon, before the boom?

Clever people those investers. How did they know that the banks would lend money to stupid developers, so they could take all the money out of the country?

If only it was Irish people that owned that land, the money could have gone back into the economy, just like the PS workers wages that you talk about.

Damn those overseas companies/investers......

The money the FF/FG county councilor made off the deal was but back into bank shares and other land deals.
Now both of them have evaporated. Except for pushing the price of land and housing up, it was of little or no value to the economy. Except con us home owner into thinking we where rich.
FF and FG want us to throw our hard cash into NAMA.

No way, let the bond holder take the hit for the banks not the taxpayer.

A centre left government is the only way to go. Put an end to this neo-liberal nightmare.

lugha

danman wrote: »

Labour in sole government, is exactly the opposite of what we need right now.

It is one of the quirks of our ways that the most likely time for us to elect a left leaning government is exactly the time when we shouldn't. I suspect we would have much more of a legacy from the boom years if we had left wing parties in power for its duration .

Nodin

donegalfella wrote: »

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Perhaps the American rhetoric would be better left in America.

donegalfella wrote: »

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Just to clarify - are you stating that it was "union loving" and "welfare boosting" that is responsible for the financial crisis?