Water meters to be introduced from 2011

Liam Byrne

Morlar wrote: »

Can anyone confirm - have the greens said how much the water meter itself will cost to purchase and to install ?

The Examiner mentioned €175 today.

mstan

Dont we already have water meters??

Lu Tze

Morlar wrote: »

Can anyone confirm - have the greens said how much the water meter itself will cost to purchase and to install ? Has anyone in the media even asked that ?

Who is carrying the cost of the meter, it's installation and it's maintenance ? Landlord / tenant etc ?

How much is the meter and installation going to run to ?

Its likely the meter and installation cost will be borne by the county councils/DOE, and there will be a monthly charge similar to line rental etc. which will include the quota of water usage which is free, and you are charged above that quota.

Cherrycola

whiteman19 wrote: »

but does that give people the excuse to waste water?...
"i don't turn off the tap fully because 50% of it is already lost before it even reaches my house"
"i leave the tap on while brushing my teeth but that's alright because 50% of ireland's water is lost in leaks"

there's no excuse for not taking simple measures to conserve water... you switch off the light and TV when you leave the room to go to bed, don't you? because you don't want to have a higher electricity bill.

But we also dont have a tv per person on in the same room for everyone to watch the same programme on either.

And how do you know who is or isnt taking steps to conserve water?! Is that a reason to charge everyone for water? Just because some are wasting it. Im sure the water wastage by households is minute in comparison to the rate of loss from the plant to my door! Will taxing my water usage stop the 50% loss of water before it reaches my door if the money is not used to repair the leaks?!

Kashkai

Good point about number of persons in the house. Is the house to be given a standard allocation or is it going to per head of people living in the house. There are 3 people next door to us and 7 in my house so it would be more than unfair to levy a standard allocation per house as each person needs a supply of water.

Common sense won't apply as this is Ireland after all. Oh and the Greens wouldn't agree with large families (strain on the earths resources and all that sh1te)

Overheal

No

mstan wrote: »

Dont we already have water meters??

Some older buildings might. Didnt you used to have metering in the 80s and 90s?

Cherrycola

Overheal wrote: »

Some older buildings might. Didnt you used to have metering in the 80s and 90s?

I dont think so, our home house was built in the 60's and we never had a water meter.
Now unless there was a standard water charge/tax years ago, did someone mention that earlier on in this thread?

mstan

Overheal wrote: »

Some older buildings might. Didnt you used to have metering in the 80s and 90s?

No, meters were put in about 2 years ago on all properties that I know of....

Lu Tze

Cherrycola wrote: »

Im sure the water wastage by households is minute in comparison to the rate of loss from the plant to my door!

More than half of unaccounted for water is estimated to be private side leakage

Cherrycola wrote: »

Will taxing my water usage stop the 50% loss of water before it reaches my door if the money is not used to repair the leaks?!

Look at the WSIP document released on monday - €100s of millions allocated for water conservation and water main rehabilitation

mstan wrote: »

No, meters were put in about 2 years ago on all properties that I know of....

All commercial properties are now metered

Domestic developments for the last 2 years or so have been puting in WSCU, basically the box in the ground that the meter can be fitted to, instead of just a standard stop cock. There i no metere in them, but it is just a case of screwing it in.

Cherrycola

Lu Tze wrote: »

More than half of unaccounted for water is estimated to be private side leakage



Look at the WSIP document released on monday - €100s of millions allocated for water conservation and water main rehabilitation




All commercial properties are now metered

Domestic developments for the last 2 years or so have been puting in WSCU, basically the box in the ground that the meter can be fitted to, instead of just a standard stop cock. There i no metere in them, but it is just a case of screwing it in.

And you believe everything you read?! The same way we were told Anglo was a viable bank by the auditors! :rolleyes:
I'll believe it when i see it.

Lu Tze

Cherrycola wrote: »

And you believe everything you read?! The same way we were told Anglo was a viable bank by the auditors! :rolleyes:
I'll believe it when i see it.

Whats not to believe? The money was set aside in the budget, all that is being decided now is the breakdown of how it will be spent. That document sets out how much each existing project is budgeted for, and and sets the budget allocations for all planned projects over the next three years.

You can find it here if you are interested.

stovelid

No

PK2008 wrote: »

Paying for water in Ireland is like paying for ice in the Arctic. What a joke!!

Then opt to have the water system removed from your house and use rainwater for bathing, drinking, cooking; flushing your jacks and washing your car?

galwayrush

stovelid wrote: »

Then opt to have the water system removed from your house and use rainwater for bathing, drinking, cooking; flushing your jacks and washing your car?

That's what i am doing, building a water tank and already have a good filtration system.:cool:

dlofnep

Load of bollocks.

We live on an Island, surrounding by water in one of the wettest countries in Europe. Why the **** should we pay for water?

galwayrush

dlofnep wrote: »

Load of bollocks.

We live on an Island, surrounding by water in one of the wettest countries in Europe. Why the **** should we pay for water?

Easy, because our Government needs the money from water to spend waste it on other things, it's really another sneaky stealth tax. I don't believe the money collected will go towards water repair, it will be just like car tax.

Cherrycola

Lu Tze wrote: »

Whats not to believe? The money was set aside in the budget, all that is being decided now is the breakdown of how it will be spent. That document sets out how much each existing project is budgeted for, and and sets the budget allocations for all planned projects over the next three years.

You can find it here if you are interested.

Ive worked right in the middle of budget allocations, government funded projects, which on paper cost X amount, but end up costing 5 times that, so if they think we are going to be a cash cow for their pissing away of money by hiring consultant to do reports, overpaying companies carrying out the work who, because they know its a government funded job, bump the costs up at any opportunity, then they can think again!

"and for that reason, im going to declare myself out"

BeerWolf

Such an overtaxed nation - taxes paying for the water treatment currently, I just find this ridiculous...

grenache

No

My parents live out in the country and have their own well, i presume this meter charge will only apply to rban folk and rural local water schemes?

Overheal

No

dlofnep wrote: »

Load of bollocks.

We live on an Island, surrounding by water in one of the wettest countries in Europe. Why the **** should we pay for water?

Why should I have to repeat myself? You said the same thing 3 months ago.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64176077&postcount=136

Cabaal

No

How is water any different to power?

With water you have to source clean it and transport it to the home, this all costs money yet we expect it for free....with power it has to be created and transported to the home yet we don't expect this for free?

If we had free power we'd abuse the feck out of it just like so many people do with water

dlofnep wrote: »

Load of bollocks.

We live on an Island, surrounding by water in one of the wettest countries in Europe. Why the **** should we pay for water?

err cause we're surrounded by sea water not fresh water, of course we could use a desalination plant to convert it but this process isn't free to do so we'd need money to do this

stovelid

No

Cabaal wrote: »

How is water any different to power?

With water you have to source clean it and transport it to the home, this all costs money yet we expect it for free....with power it has to be created and transported to the home yet we don't expect this for free?

If we had free power we'd abuse the feck out of it just like so many people do with water

Because people think that rainwater, and sh*tty seawater somehow magically ends up in your taps, jacks, bath and garden hose. Kinda like moaning about paying for electricity because you can see lightening in the sky on occasion.

Lu Tze

Cherrycola wrote: »

Ive worked right in the middle of budget allocations, government funded projects, which on paper cost X amount, but end up costing 5 times that,

That is supply / demand, it can be 2-3 year after the budget estimates that jobs go out to tender.

Cherrycola wrote: »

so if they think we are going to be a cash cow for their pissing away of money by hiring consultant to do reports, overpaying companies carrying out the work who, because they know its a government funded job, bump the costs up at any opportunity, then they can think again!

"and for that reason, im going to declare myself out"

These jobs are going out under the new conditions of contract which means a lump sum fee, with little scope for variations.

And looking at tenders now, the rates are half what they were in around 2006 (supply / demand working again)

Vegeta

Cabaal wrote: »

How is water any different to power?

Because you are not currently paying your ESB bill via taxation.

We ARE paying for our water currently via taxation. I have no problem with a metering system if the current expenditure on water is refunded through the lowering of tax rates.

So can we all get one thing straight please, we are paying for water. We are not getting it for free

I suspect this government will not lower the tax rates though and for that reason I am against it. Not in principle mind

Wibbs

stovelid wrote: »

Because people think that rainwater, and sh*tty seawater somehow magically ends up in your taps, jacks, bath and garden hose. Kinda like moaning about paying for electricity because you can see lightening in the sky on occasion.

:D Great analogy. Thing is its a little different. Water itself is very abundant(so is energy, but thats for another day) and its processing is a much simpler task. Simple enough that a single household could harvest its own water to meet its needs at least 80% of the time. I do agree people need to conserve it more, much more and metering and paying for it is the best option. My problem is leaving such a system to the usual inefficient and double talking jackasses.

Lu Tze wrote: »

That is supply / demand, it can be 2-3 year after the budget estimates that jobs go out to tender.



These jobs are going out under the new conditions of contract which means a lump sum fee, with little scope for variations.

And looking at tenders now, the rates are half what they were in around 2006 (supply / demand working again)

Again agreed, but the vast majority of public schemes rolled out in this country run into coat overruns, delays and general fcukups way over the top when compared to other countries schemes. Do other countries have this problem? Of course, but we have it consistently. Sometimes to a laughable degree. Health, transport, energy, communications infrastructures. If one was to write a book on the last 20 years of infrastructure management in this country one suggested title would be "You couldnt make this shít up". And again I have issues with paying for a service that I can pretty much guarantee will screwup and increase in costs and that revenue be used to plug the gaps in other economic fcukups.

If a reasonable set free amount was in place and after that you would be charged on a sliding scale, then fine. I suspect that's how it will be sold, but not how it will pan out. Of course none of the muppets are clear about how much it will cost to the household. Not even vaguely clear. The excuse that they dont know yet, is just that an excuse. They should have a fair idea of costings if they were god forbid planning ahead.

Overheal

No

Vegeta wrote: »

Because you are not currently paying your ESB bill via taxation.

We ARE paying for our water currently via taxation. I have no problem with a metering system if the current expenditure on water is refunded through the lowering of tax rates.

So can we all get one thing straight please, we are paying for water. We are not getting it for free

I suspect this government will not lower the tax rates though and for that reason I am against it. Not in principle mind

Youre paying through a metric which is unproportional to consumption.

stovelid

No

Wibbs wrote: »

If a reasonable set free amount was in place and after that you would be charged on a sliding scale, then fine.

This is how I would ideally envisage it.

I support utility charges on principle and am always dismayed about the ability of the Irish public too concurrently demand excellent services while steadfastly opposing additional taxes to fund them.

That said, I wholly acknowledge that people (including me) don't trust the government to spend those taxes sensibly.

Vegeta

Overheal wrote: »

Youre paying through a metric which is unproportional to consumption.

And?

You realise we will be paying twice for water when this is introduced and it will not be a pay for usage scheme.

The current metric costs me X euro a year in tax. I highly doubt they will lower my taxes accordingly, refunding me the X figure, when metering is introduced.

So when metering comes in it will cost me X+Y for the exact same service. Where Y is the bill for my personal water usage.

So why on earth would I want to pay more for the same quality of service??

I can see how much water I have personally consumed. Great. If I use absolutely no water it will still cost me X in tax.

Why would I support that?

Liam Byrne

Vegeta wrote: »

We ARE paying for our water currently via taxation. I have no problem with a metering system if the current expenditure on water is refunded through the lowering of tax rates.

I suspect this government will not lower the tax rates though and for that reason I am against it. Not in principle mind

+1 on both of these points.

I cannot for the life of me see this as anything other than an ADDITIONAL tax.

But what do you expect from a country that has an illegal VRT charge and then has the gall to charge VAT on the VRT ?

phantom_lord

No

lol @ at this thread

Overheal

No

Vegeta wrote: »

And?

You realise we will be paying twice for water when this is introduced and it will not be a pay for usage scheme.

The current metric costs me X euro a year in tax. I highly doubt they will lower my taxes accordingly, refunding me the X figure, when metering is introduced.

So when metering comes in it will cost me X+Y for the exact same service. Where Y is the bill for my personal water usage.

So why on earth would I want to pay more for the same quality of service??

I can see how much water I have personally consumed. Great. If I use absolutely no water it will still cost me X in tax.

Why would I support that?

I understand that but one way or another it needs to be made proportional to consumption, nevermind the existing tax. A flat rate not tied directly to consumption has lead the system into abuse by the consumer; its unsustainable.

Im not saying you should support being double-taxed.

Still, would it be analagous to say you pay a road tax for your vehicle but are also taxed on the petrol you put into it?

dvpower

No

Wibbs wrote: »

My problem is leaving such a system to the usual inefficient and double talking jackasses.

In the UK the water companies are private entities. Perhaps we should go the same route here and privatise water?

owenc

No

OMG what do you use to control your water then? We've had them for as long as i know!!!

Wibbs

dvpower wrote: »

In the UK the water companies are private entities. Perhaps we should go the same route here and privatise water?

Bad plan. Without serious gov control that would be open to abuse. Its an area that the private sector shouldnt be in IMHO. Among the utilities its the one absolutely required for life.

Johnny Utah

Well, it's official; just heard on the radio that water meters are to be installed in every home! :mad:

What a joke! :mad:

Gunsfortoys

Water meters will be introduced and then privatised in a few years.

Johnny Utah

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Water meters will be introduced and then privatised in a few years.

Yeah, and just like the NCT, the toll roads, speed cameras, or the bin collection, it'll be a rip-off and the private company will make a fortune! :mad:

cnireland

Hi,

Can provide me with to a link to video/audio/podcast where the introduction of water meters is mentioned?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

El Horseboxo

Just don't let them install anything in your house and if everyone refuses to pay the tax what are they going to do? Turn off your water or throw you in jail?

Corsendonk

No

PK2008 wrote: »

Paying for water in Ireland is like paying for ice in the Arctic. What a joke!!

Joke is all the bottled water we buy!! Ballygowan, Kerry, Tipperary even Riverrock which CocaCola buy from the local council mains up North.

Yakult

How can they charge for such scummy, horrible water from taps?

Lidl water ftw.

Corsendonk

No

grenache wrote: »

My parents live out in the country and have their own well, i presume this meter charge will only apply to rban folk and rural local water schemes?

Nope there has been discussions about councils putting meters on private wells too which is a bit rich as the water meter tax pays for the upgrade of the system and bore holes arenot part of the system.

mikemac

No

If you have your pump you pay to get it installed, serviced and the electricity to power it.

I'll pay this tax only if the council bring the water scheme here.
You can't install meters for houses that the council won't even service!

Mark200

No

El Horseboxo wrote: »

Just don't let them install anything in your house and if everyone refuses to pay the tax what are they going to do? Turn off your water or throw you in jail?

Hopefully turn off your water. If you don't want to pay for something then you shouldn't get it.

For all the people saying "sure it's Ireland, water falls from the sky!". Fine, next time it rains stick out a few buckets and you won't need to use the water in your taps. Problem solved.

mikemac

No

El Horseboxo wrote: »

Turn off your water or throw you in jail?

Joe Higgins and his comrades will go to jail for a photo op

Done it before and will do it again

sonic85

im out in the country with my own well - if the government thinks they can put a meter on it and charge me for my own water they can fcuk right off

storm2811

feelingstressed wrote: »

If you have your pump you pay to get it installed, serviced and the electricity to power it.

I'll pay this tax only if the council bring the water scheme here.
You can't install meters for houses that the council won't even service!

+1, are they installing for people who have their own pumps?
The council won't/can't give us the mains because "there's a rock in the way"..:rolleyes:

robbyvibes

When Bolivia couldn't pay back fraudulent loans made to them by the "World Bank" the same bank recommended privatising water.

A US company (where else) called Bechtel took over and Bolivian people weren't even allowed to collect rain water...it was against the law!!

I would say they'll even make it illegal in Ireland to collect rain water..wait and see.

Banks are the common enemy of all people, they are a parasite on people.

However, in 1999 the World Bank recommended privatization of Cochabamba's municipal water supply company, Servicio Municipal del Agua Potable y Alcantarillado (SENIAPA). "Bank officials directly threatened to withhold $600 million in international debt relief if Bolivia didn't privatize Cochabamba's public water system."

read more

MagicSean

robbyvibes wrote: »

When Bolivia couldn't pay back fraudulent loans made to them by the "World Bank" the same bank recommended privatising water.

A US company (where else) called Bechtel took over and Bolivian people weren't even allowed to collect rain water...it was against the law!!

I would say they'll even make it illegal in Ireland to collect rain water..wait and see.

Banks are the common enemy of all people, they are a parasite on people.

However, in 1999 the World Bank recommended privatization of Cochabamba's municipal water supply company, Servicio Municipal del Agua Potable y Alcantarillado (SENIAPA). "Bank officials directly threatened to withhold $600 million in international debt relief if Bolivia didn't privatize Cochabamba's public water system."

read more

Are you sure you aren't thinking of tha latest Bond movie?

Sierra Oscar

The meters were installed in my home town back in Tipperary last year.

robbyvibes

k_mac wrote: »

Are you sure you aren't thinking of tha latest Bond movie?

The IMF enforcing austerity on behalf of banks is nothing new.
South America and Africa are continents very familiar with banks lending money for infrastructure projects with the full knowledge those nations can't pay back the loan.

The next step is to send in the IMF who privatize all the nations public utility companies and strip its assets. (raw materials like coal,oil,gas and other earth minerals)

Read 'Economic Hitman' by John Perkins to see how banks operate to profit from people's misery.

IMF are raping Ireland and some Irish people think that's a good thing.