Water meters to be introduced from 2011

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

No

Problem here is that everyone wants something for free. Fine, put buckets out and catch the rain or snow. Then your meter stays low and you don't pay. Win-win. In fact, not using so much might not be a bad idea: don't waste so much and you'll be fine.

Sierra Oscar

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Problem here is that everyone wants something for free.

Heh exactly. No doubt this is just another revenue raising measure by the government . . . but all the same saying it rains all the time in Ireland does not meant there are no costs associated with water supply.

First and foremost, rivers don't naturally flow to your tap or into your toilet cistern.

People can dig their own wells if they so wish.

robbyvibes

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Problem here is that everyone wants something for free. Fine, put buckets out and catch the rain or snow. Then your meter stays low and you don't pay. Win-win. In fact, not using so much might not be a bad idea: don't waste so much and you'll be fine.

The question is, will paying for the water improve the quality of water and service?

If you look at parts of London in the UK where water is privatized, you'll see water hasn't improved and neither has the service..so where does the money go? into the pockets of the company naturally.

Point is, all the money given to the private companies isn't reinvested into the service they're providing.

sonic85

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

People can dig their own wells if they so wish.

well most people living outside of towns have their own wells and have paid to get them dug. now the government want to ride people further and charge them for using their own water? like somebody else on the thread said - what next charge us for the air we breathe? fcuk em

MagicSean

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Problem here is that everyone wants something for free. Fine, put buckets out and catch the rain or snow. Then your meter stays low and you don't pay. Win-win. In fact, not using so much might not be a bad idea: don't waste so much and you'll be fine.

I dont mind paying for water. I dont think I should have to pay for the meter installation though. I also don't think I should pay the same rate as someone who receives much better quality of water. Unless the governemnt plan on making calgon and water filtration systems tax deductable.

Dempsey

No

Totally agree with metering

It makes the tax you pay for water more transparent.

Supplying water is costing the state €580m p/a, who still thinks water is free?

You'll be charged for YOUR usage and that 50% waste, well the local authorities will get off their holes to reduce that so that they will see a bigger profit margin. They'll also be able to use the meters to help find leaks.

People may even buy rain water tanks to reduce their demand for drinking water and newer homes may integate grey water systems, using rain water, for toilets, washing machines and dishwashers.

jumpguy

No

So annoying to see the "but it falls from the sky all the time" argument. While true, we've plenty of water to be supplied, and we don't need desalinization, no matter if we had monsoon all year round, water still has to purified and piped to people's houses. It should be metered like every other country, and hopefully it'll be at a fair price. Too many people waste water, like all the idiots last year during the freeze that left their outside taps on full pelt all night to stop the water freezing...just insulate your pipes, people.

The air on the other hand, thankfully doesn't have to purified and delivered to us. Water isn't, and should never have been, free.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

No

robbyvibes wrote: »

The question is, will paying for the water improve the quality of water and service?

If you look at parts of London in the UK where water is privatized, you'll see water hasn't improved and neither has the service..so where does the money go? into the pockets of the company naturally.

Point is, all the money given to the private companies isn't reinvested into the service they're providing.

But the money is not going to a private company (I assume...? I haven't seen anything about privatisation of water in Ireland, but am open to correction) it's going to the government. It's easy because you at least control the amount of tax you pay. Don't want to pay so much in tax? Don't use so much water.

k_mac wrote: »

I dont mind paying for water. I dont think I should have to pay for the meter installation though. I also don't think I should pay the same rate as someone who receives much better quality of water. Unless the governemnt plan on making calgon and water filtration systems tax deductable.

I'd agree with you here. Was in Mayo a short while back and they were still boiling the water before using it.

CorkMan

You may be sure Brian Cowen will get a "water-meter free allowance" when he steps down as Taoiseach. Then he can get a kick out of the common folk paying for water while he bathes.

mikemac

No

Dempsey wrote: »

Totally agree with metering

If you have your own well you already pay for water. Installed, serviced and powered
And now I'm reading here the council will be metering these people anyway. Paying water charges for what? The council doesn't have a mains out here.

I'd like to get this confirmed, will contact our local TD to see if they more information

TeddyTedson

I'm for water metering, it's crazy not to have it. Remember earlier in the year when Dublin had no water!!! There needs to be a free allowance though, and also need to see other costs come down i.e. ESB/electricity costs. The ESB always bang on about how they are a profitable company in order to stay state owned and keep their handy jobs. We'll we're paying the highest electricity prices in Europe!!! I can see the ESB being the next Fas with crazy spending going on.

Dempsey

No

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I'm for water metering, it's crazy not to have it. Remember earlier in the year when Dublin had no water!!! There needs to be a free allowance though, and also need to see other costs come down i.e. ESB/electricity costs. The ESB always bang on about how they are a profitable company in order to stay state owned and keep their handy jobs. We'll we're paying the highest electricity prices in Europe!!! I can see the ESB being the next Fas with crazy spending going on.

The regulator are forcing them to increase their prices so competition can come into the market :rolleyes:

mikemac

No

TeddyTedson wrote: »

We'll we're paying the highest electricity prices in Europe!!!

The ESB would love to slash their prices and wipe out the competition. They are not allowed

TeddyTedson

Dempsey wrote: »

The regulator are forcing them to increase their prices so competition can come into the market :rolleyes:

As far as I know this was still the case before this though.
Also wasn't it only supposed to be until they lost 400,000 customers? That must be the case by now.

galah

agree with the water metering IF (and that's a big if) I can actually drink the tap water, that is, the standard of the water is actually good enough for human consumption, and consistently maintained at that level. So no funny chlorine smells, no funny colours (ours is currently white and fizzes ), and no funny bugs (crypto and the rest of them). Then I'll gladly pay for what I use...

Funny though that another tax the Germans have has not yet been mentioned here (I think, anyway) - back in the Fatherland, you pay for rain falling on your sealed property. Yep - it's a rainfall tax. (not sure how much they pay, but it's calculated based on the amount of sealed square metres of land you have - i.e. a huge tarmacced driveway would incurr a higher tax than just a small paved foothpath to the house etc). Surprised the government hasnt thought of that one yet...

Dempsey

No

galah wrote: »

agree with the water metering IF (and that's a big if) I can actually drink the tap water, that is, the standard of the water is actually good enough for human consumption, and consistently maintained at that level. So no funny chlorine smells, no funny colours (ours is currently white and fizzes ), and no funny bugs (crypto and the rest of them). Then I'll gladly pay for what I use...

Funny though that another tax the Germans have has not yet been mentioned here (I think, anyway) - back in the Fatherland, you pay for rain falling on your sealed property. Yep - it's a rainfall tax. (not sure how much they pay, but it's calculated based on the amount of sealed square metres of land you have - i.e. a huge tarmacced driveway would incurr a higher tax than just a small paved foothpath to the house etc). Surprised the government hasnt thought of that one yet...

The rain-tax is collected based on the amount of impervious surface cover on a property that generates runoff directed to the local storm sewer.

The reason for the rain-tax? Construction of storm sewers and other utilities is financed with tax dollars. So, the more rainwater that is caught and kept as a resource where it falls, the less runoff there is to convey. Less runoff allows smaller storm sewers, which, in turn, saves construction and maintenance costs. Thus, people can qualify for rain-tax reductions or exemptions by reducing or eliminating the footprint of their on-site impervious pavement by reducing impervious pavement coverage, replacing impervious pavement with porous pavement, and/or installing green roofs (turning impervious roofs into porous, prairie-like surfaces).

Makes sense though! You harvest the rain, less tax you pay

sonic85

No

sonic85 wrote: »

im out in the country with my own well - if the government thinks they can put a meter on it and charge me for my own water they can fcuk right off

How the hell can they charge you for water you draw yourself! There is no rising main to meter.

TeddyTedson

galah wrote: »

agree with the water metering IF (and that's a big if) I can actually drink the tap water, that is, the standard of the water is actually good enough for human consumption, and consistently maintained at that level. So no funny chlorine smells, no funny colours (ours is currently white and fizzes ), and no funny bugs (crypto and the rest of them). Then I'll gladly pay for what I use...

Funny though that another tax the Germans have has not yet been mentioned here (I think, anyway) - back in the Fatherland, you pay for rain falling on your sealed property. Yep - it's a rainfall tax. (not sure how much they pay, but it's calculated based on the amount of sealed square metres of land you have - i.e. a huge tarmacced driveway would incurr a higher tax than just a small paved foothpath to the house etc). Surprised the government hasnt thought of that one yet...

I think we're the only country in the EU to still put this crap in our water.
Water fluoridation is not good for you. We now have toothpaste in the country.

sonic85

galah wrote: »

agree with the water metering IF (and that's a big if) I can actually drink the tap water, that is, the standard of the water is actually good enough for human consumption, and consistently maintained at that level. So no funny chlorine smells, no funny colours (ours is currently white and fizzes ), and no funny bugs (crypto and the rest of them). Then I'll gladly pay for what I use...

Funny though that another tax the Germans have has not yet been mentioned here (I think, anyway) - back in the Fatherland, you pay for rain falling on your sealed property. Yep - it's a rainfall tax. (not sure how much they pay, but it's calculated based on the amount of sealed square metres of land you have - i.e. a huge tarmacced driveway would incurr a higher tax than just a small paved foothpath to the house etc). Surprised the government hasnt thought of that one yet...

ah shush will ya youll be giving them ideas! i can picture cowen trawling through boards looking for more ways to extract money from us!

sonic85

Deleted User wrote: »

How the hell can they charge you for water you draw yourself! There is no rising main to meter.

id imagine theyll find a way

No

Funny though that another tax the Germans have has not yet been mentioned here (I think, anyway) - back in the Fatherland, you pay for rain falling on your sealed property. Yep - it's a rainfall tax. (not sure how much they pay, but it's calculated based on the amount of sealed square metres of land you have - i.e. a huge tarmacced driveway would incurr a higher tax than just a small paved foothpath to the house etc). Surprised the government hasnt thought of that one yet...

Quote:
The rain-tax is collected based on the amount of impervious surface cover on a property that generates runoff directed to the local storm sewer.

The reason for the rain-tax? Construction of storm sewers and other utilities is financed with tax dollars. So, the more rainwater that is caught and kept as a resource where it falls, the less runoff there is to convey. Less runoff allows smaller storm sewers, which, in turn, saves construction and maintenance costs. Thus, people can qualify for rain-tax reductions or exemptions by reducing or eliminating the footprint of their on-site impervious pavement by reducing impervious pavement coverage, replacing impervious pavement with porous pavement, and/or installing green roofs (turning impervious roofs into porous, prairie-like surfaces).

Makes sense though! You harvest the rain, less tax you pay __________________

Well, that's a good enough reason to delay laying the tarmac driveway.
Must finish off the rain harvesting system.

Overheal

No

sonic85 wrote: »

im out in the country with my own well - if the government thinks they can put a meter on it and charge me for my own water they can fcuk right off

I would find it funny if they metered your well but I'm 100% sure in a municipal water system they meter the municipally supplied water only. Your rate would be 0 litres a year if you have no connection.

The question is, will paying for the water improve the quality of water and service?

In theory.

sonic85 wrote: »

well most people living outside of towns have their own wells and have paid to get them dug. now the government want to ride people further and charge them for using their own water? like somebody else on the thread said - what next charge us for the air we breathe? fcuk em

Again, they don't charge you for a well. I recall back when I was 11 or so my dad lapsed on the water bill by like a day or two, the guy came out to the front of the house and shut it off. We would have been screwed for a day or two because they were still processing the check, but the landlord had a well. Couldn't drink from it but it put water in the toilets and in the sinks for washing hands. I suppose it would have been handy to have it rigged up to the cistern but we ended up with a garden hose

sonic85

Overheal wrote: »

I would find it funny if they metered your well but I'm 100% sure in a municipal water system they meter the municipally supplied water only. Your rate would be 0 litres a year if you have no connection.

if thats the case im after getting mixed up. i thought it was charges for every home - but to be honest it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if private wells were targeted in some way. anything to increase the cash intake

sonic85

No

sonic85 wrote: »

if thats the case im after getting mixed up. i thought it was charges for every home - but to be honest it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if private wells were targeted in some way. anything to increase the cash intake

They could try a flat rate for unmetered houses based on the number of occupants or similar.

Faith+1

It piss*s rain every second day in this fcuking country and they're introducing water meters?? What a country!:rolleyes:

Overheal

No

Faith+1 wrote: »

It piss*s rain every second day in this fcuking country and they're introducing water meters?? What a country!:rolleyes:

Hello, are you from the past?

Faith+1

Overheal wrote: »

Hello, are you from the past?

October 25th 1985 1.15am, Why?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

No

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69380623&postcount=208 being one of many

Mrmoe

No

sonic85 wrote: »

im out in the country with my own well - if the government thinks they can put a meter on it and charge me for my own water they can fcuk right off

I don't think they will. We have our well and a metered supply. Our own source is not metered. It is necessary to have the mains supply especially during the summer months. The weather has a reputation of raining constantly during the summer but actual levels of rainfall would not be enough to sustain most people or households. We get a certain free water allowance as well.

Chinasea

Bring it on.

As usual in Ireland though, we have to be forced into conserving our natural resources rather than working the obvious out by ourselves whilst we foolishly waste and pollute what we have in abundance. drip drip drip.......

If we got our act together we could actually start exporting water to thirsty arid neighbours.

galah

haven't looked into this, but if there isnt, there should be a grant for harvesting rain water - I'd be very keen to know how to use rain water for flushing the loo, for example. There is absolutely NO NEED to use 'drinking' water (in the widest sense of the word, as in, coming from the same source as the water for the sink) for the loos - that really is a waste!

they should encourage water-aware behaviour as well, and make sure that any pipes are laid properly below the surface so they won't freeze (thus cutting out the old 'leave the tap running when it's cold lark - I mean, seriously...WTF?), and in general making people aware how much water you actually use each day (my mom back in the Fatherland always had a fit when our showers lasted longer than 10 minutes, for example, or flushing the loo for the piece of tissue that you blew your nose with, leaving the tap running while brushing your teeth, that kind of stuff.)

And I assume the money raised from a water charge will actually go into improving the infrastructure? Or will it also go into the big black hole that is 'the banking crisis? Cause if it's the latter, I ain't paying....

MagicSean

galah wrote: »

haven't looked into this, but if there isnt, there should be a grant for harvesting rain water - I'd be very keen to know how to use rain water for flushing the loo, for example. There is absolutely NO NEED to use 'drinking' water (in the widest sense of the word, as in, coming from the same source as the water for the sink) for the loos - that really is a waste!

they should encourage water-aware behaviour as well, and make sure that any pipes are laid properly below the surface so they won't freeze (thus cutting out the old 'leave the tap running when it's cold lark - I mean, seriously...WTF?), and in general making people aware how much water you actually use each day (my mom back in the Fatherland always had a fit when our showers lasted longer than 10 minutes, for example, or flushing the loo for the piece of tissue that you blew your nose with, leaving the tap running while brushing your teeth, that kind of stuff.)

And I assume the money raised from a water charge will actually go into improving the infrastructure? Or will it also go into the big black hole that is 'the banking crisis? Cause if it's the latter, I ain't paying....

It will go into the big black hole that is the public finances. As does every tax.

Celly Smunt

Faith+1 wrote: »

October 25th 1985 1.15am, Why?

we share a birthday

k_mac

No

k_mac wrote: »

It will go into the big black hole that is the public finances. As does every tax.

...and it will be paid for twice, as we already pay for water indirectly via road tax etc.

Cú Giobach

Ha ha ,I'll be sitting at my boundary with a shotgun waiting for someone to come and meter my well.
Not a f*cking chance. What could they do? Dig up the well? Lock my taps? Remove my toilet?
:rolleyes:

ilovesleep

If you asked me a few weeks ago about water and property taxes i would have been totally against them. The country is going down the toilet and cuts and taxes is whats needed. however i do have a problem in that the money will be spent at the big black hole propping up failing banks. I think the majority of the people would be all too happy to help in whatever way they can but to pay taxes for the big black hole that are the banks. Just let the banks fail and people would be much happier and content at paying such charges.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

No

pmcmahon wrote: »

we share a birthday

Actually, I#m pretty sure you'll share all of them!

stupidusername

As far back as I can remember my home has had terrible problems with water. I'd estimate around 1/4 to 1/3 of the year we don't have water. It's cut off by the local council, and when you ring them to say the water's gone again, they don't answer their phones. they cut off the water a lot friday evenings, so there's no one to ring anyway.

so finally will drilling and trying to find our own source of water, we've got a fairly reliable supply. we've just installed the water filters and softener and so it's fairly well set up now.

While in general I don't disagree with water metering, in Ireland it's just pathetic. The thing is charging us for it isn't going to mean it's more reliable. Or pipes will be replaced any faster. It won't produce consumable drinking water any faster either. So what's the point? It's just ANOTHER TAX. it's just one more way the government are going to get money from us.

I agree with encouraging water conservation, so that everyone has it for when they need it, but unless people are using excessive amounts we should not be charged. So metering is fine and charging above a certain level, but somehow I doubt this government won't be that sensible about it.

And I would be interested to know what's going to happen for those that have had to set up their own pumps. What exactly are they going to be charged for??

ricman

it costs millions to keep the infrastructure going, in some countrys new buildings,schools etc have tanks to collect rainwater for washing ,toilets and so on.
AS in solar energy ,green power ,we are ten years behind some countrys.
ITS cost effective to design buildings ,with solar energy,water collection as part of the structure ,ie in the long run it saves money.THERE was not enough money put into modernising the water supply in the celtic tiger years.if you live in a house theres ways to collect rainwater,at present theres no incentive to conserve water for most people.

jumpguy

No

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69380623&postcount=208 being one of many

Eh?

MagicMarker

No

Water isn't free, so I see no harm in charging for it so long as the price is reasonable.

Overheal

No

jumpguy wrote: »

Eh?

he might have mistaken you for another Cartman. Bad Chuckie! Bad.

cnireland

Anyone got a link to a video or audio of this announcement?