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After Hours 'Off-Topic' Thread

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    #62
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Earthhorse wrote: »
    So should the focus of a forum emerge from the forum or from a few posters? And should the forum accommodate this desire when it may be met elsewhere (yes I mean social groups and PMs). :)

    Only if there was a sufficient demand for it.. not just a 'few' supporters
    I think it would reinforce an existing clique or create a new one. That wouldn't bother me too much because I think cliques aren't, in and of themselves, harmful.

    It's used as a main reason to oppose the idea though
    What would need to be watched is spillover from the general chat thread to other threads. There was a similar exercise carried out in TLL recently, I believe, where, in summary, they felt every thread had become an extension of the chat thread and had to clamp down on off topic posts a little more.

    Wasn't aware of that. I still think it would be obvious to others though. Of course if it was allowed to develop to the point where it effects other threads then it will happen.. no argument there :)

    None of them do, I would think. nesf and simu, both of whom are Irish speakers, look after moderating that forum to the best of my knowledge. So unless you're suggesting this new thread have it's own moderators...:)

    If needs be. Mods have said it would be hell to moderate such a thing. If there was 1 or 2 mods tasked specifically with keeping an eye on things I don't think it would be too hard to stay on top of things.

    I'm still against the idea based on my own preferences btw.. just trying to see it from a neutral perspective. In all honesty, I think this could all be sorted out if those interested in it went through the right channels to request an off-topic sub-forum in AH. If it gets enough support it would be worth considering.. and if not, then so be it


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    #63
    Gordon
    Registered Users Posts: 35,524 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    Not sure why this is to be considered for a feedforward discussion, I would have thought it would have gone in the regular thread that Afterhours has asking for feedback on the forum. Or in the feedback forum. But sure, I guess it can be put forward for discussion later.

    Or is this thread about the validity of off-topic threads in general on boards?


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    #64
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    TheZohan wrote: »
    The beauty about After Hours is if you want to hve a chat about say "funny things that happened to me on a bus" then you can start a thread on it and have a chat about it there.

    People will still do that.

    I started this thread about such a day ...

    I can assure you that if there was an 'Off-topic' thread, I would still have started it :)
    TheZohan wrote: »
    One major problem I can see with an "off topic thread" is people will start chatting about Dublin clubs for example, and posters that are not from Dublin will feel left out so they won't post in the thread. Or you can have posters talking about clubs in Galway, and other posters will feel left out and won't post.

    Let them, what harm.

    It'll be an 'Off-Topic' thread, if there are people from Dublin talking about heading out and people from Galway doing the same, how can anybody feel left out.

    Everyone will know that it's an 'Off-topic' thread.

    If a thread like that had of existed when I first arrived in After Hours, i would have loved it. I could have just said: "Hi, never posted here before.."

    After Hours regs are a good bunch (sometimes :p) and I'm sure I would have been made welcome. Could have watched the chat and got to know people quicker.

    It could be in the OP to: "Please feel free to jump in at anytime to the conversation. Newbies welcome ..".

    I think a compromise could be arranged were everyone is happy.

    If it fails, so be it.

    It won't be the end of the world.


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    #65
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Gordon wrote: »
    Not sure why this is to be considered for a feedforward discussion

    Well, then I have misunderstood the meaning of Feed Forward.

    If you want to move it to either After Hours or Feedback, that's fine with me.

    Prehaps AH would be best.


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    #66
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    My name is URL wrote: »
    I think this could all be sorted out if those interested in it went through the right channels to request an off-topic sub-forum in AH. If it gets enough support it would be worth considering.. and if not, then so be it

    Just on this, I think an off-topic sub-forum wouldn't work nor would it or should it be approved. There is no great need for it to that degree.

    I feel one thread would be more than enough to take the burden off the other threads.


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    #67
    Earthhorse
    Registered Users Posts: 14,714 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Only if there was a sufficient demand for it.. not just a 'few' supporters

    What would you class as sufficient demand?
    It's used as a main reason to oppose the idea though

    But some people in support of it have also said that it's the clique opposing it. And that it would make newbies feel more welcome, which, one assumes, they don't because of this clique. So it doesn't really solve the "problem"; in inverted commas because I don't see cliques as a problem, certainly not a solvable one.
    Wasn't aware of that. I still think it would be obvious to others though. Of course if it was allowed to develop to the point where it effects other threads then it will happen.. no argument there :)

    Obvious or not, if it changes the tone of the forum in the direction of chat, I think it would be a bad thing. This is a discussion forum, not IRC.
    If needs be. Mods have said it would be hell to moderate such a thing. If there was 1 or 2 mods tasked specifically with keeping an eye on things I don't think it would be too hard to stay on top of things.

    Well, I don't think that's really workable; once you're mod of a forum you'll be dragged into other duties. Very hard to make people responsible for just one thread when they have the ability to rule beyond it.
    I'm still against the idea based on my own preferences btw.

    As am I; I think the idea has some merit but just not enough, and, handled through a thread or sub forum would leave After Hours the poorer.


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    #68
    we'llallhavetea_old
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭we'llallhavetea_old


    TheZohan wrote: »
    One major problem I can see with an "off topic thread" is people will start chatting about Dublin clubs for example, and posters that are not from Dublin will feel left out so they won't post in the thread. Or you can have posters talking about clubs in Galway, and other posters will feel left out and won't post.

    i think this happens anyway. i dunno about the feeling left out part.

    this is just one very small example anyway, the thread will end up being very long (if its like the other chit chat threads) so i doubt the whole thread is going to be about dublin/galway nightclubs or the likes.


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    #69
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    TheZohan wrote: »

    In any other forum that I have visited there's a mega-thread and that's just very cliquish.

    Completely agree. I hate going onto a new forum and there's a 500 page thread on the topic I want to discuss. Usually I end up not posting becuase some thread-resident will berate me for having missed someone's salient point on page 359, and there ain't no way, now how I'm reading more than about 10 pages to catch up on any thread (and thats only on one I'm really into like the Lost episode threads)


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    #70
    we'llallhavetea_old
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭we'llallhavetea_old


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Completely agree. I hate going onto a new forum and there's a 500 page thread on the topic I want to discuss. Usually I end up not posting becuase some thread-resident will berate me for having missed someone's salient point on page 359, and there ain't no way, now how I'm reading more than about 10 pages to catch up on any thread (and thats only on one I'm really into like the Lost episode threads)

    but this will be an off topic thread, so really there is no specific topic.

    so no one can berate you for not reading the whole thread.


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    #71
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,210 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Well, then I have misunderstood the meaning of Feed Forward.

    If you want to move it to either After Hours or Feedback, that's fine with me.

    Prehaps AH would be best.
    Frankly I don't think it would stay open very long if left in AH.

    I think I will send it to feedback though, and you can get some feedbackfrom AH posters about what they think.

    As for Off Topic threads and Clique-ness, please feel free to take it up as a policy discussion in Feedforward :o It was debatable (and debated!) but please keep Feedforward to General/Sitewide/Policy discussions. This is more or less about AH particularly.


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    #72
    Super-Rush
    Registered Users Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    I can't see the need for this thread again. There's one in AH already with the majority saying no. Theres also one in TLL thats being ignored.

    Like Rabies said already, the mods and c-mods have discussed this already and said no.


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    #73
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Again, with respect, the thread is not compulsory viewing.

    It kind of would be for the mods who would need to keep an eye on it and they've already said they're against the idea.


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    #74
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Dean Nervous Backpacker wrote: »
    It kind of would be for the mods who would need to keep an eye on it and they've already said they're against the idea.

    I'm sure the MODs don't read all threads as it is.

    Take the Northern Ireland 32 County thread that went to 1000 posts, did they read every post on that thread?

    Do MODs not eventually just count on reported posts to flag a problem?

    This is a genuine question as I have no clue :)


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    #75
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    I'm sure the MODs don't read all threads as it is.

    Take the Northern Ireland 32 County thread that went to 1000 posts, did they read every post on that thread?

    I don't know, I'm not a mind-reader.
    Do MODs not eventually just count on reported posts to flag a problem.

    To flag a problem, yes, but they don't just rely on reported posts. When a post was reported while I modded After Hours I would often read the entire thread it came from (or at a few pages before and after it if the thread was long) to make sure I was reading it in the correct context. And look how many mistakes I would still make. I'm guessing that the others are even more thorough still. I can also imagine finding several pages of "I love chips"-esque prattle to get fairly tedious after a while, especially if they were against the thread in the first place.


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    #76
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Rabies wrote: »

    AH mods have discussed this before, not happening.


    Ha!
    Want to mod AH?

    .

    ..AH mods have a high rate of turnover too, so with new faces comes new opinion.

    While i agree somewhat that an "off-topic" thread isnt very appealing, i find your attitude even less appealing, try not to treat members queires or suggestions as if they were insufferable school children.

    To shoot down something in your first post without reasonable debate or discussion without the subject matter being completely daft is showing a lack of respect to AH users in my opinion


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    #77
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    I feel, and hopefully others will too, that it's about time After Hours had it's own 'Off-topic' thread.

    I would very rarely post in AH so this doesn't affect me either way, I just wanted to say that if you're going to make an argument for change, your post is the way you should do it. Well written, well thought out. fair play.

    edit: my 2c. What harm can it do? if it's a nightmare to mod, close it. If not, it'll give you somewhere to point posters when locking or banning for off-topicness elsewhere. Mind you, I don't think people appreciate the work that goes into modding a contentious thread, let alone a forum like AH, so far be it from me to claim it's an easy solution to implement. The other argument of course is that if you just say "no", people like OP (works on so many levels) who've put a lot of thought and time in their OP, cited references, really thought about it, will just think "why bother?" my 2c is that posts like the OP, we could do with a lot more of, tbph.


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    #78
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,210 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Dean Nervous Backpacker wrote: »
    I don't know, I'm not a mind-reader.


    Well not too long ago I had my reported posts ignored; then I PM'd the AH mods (with receipts), got a response along the lines of "What reported posts?"

    This was the wikileaks thread, and while I it was eventually handled well, it was a bewildering hiccup. The mods werent reading it and were seemingly unaware of half a dozen reports.


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    #79
    Sharpshooter
    Registered Users Posts: 31,859 ✭✭✭✭Sharpshooter



    At 22:13, there was 142 members on in AHs.

    At the same time in BGRH, there where 1 members on.

    At the same time in tLL, there was 10 members on.

    At the same time in tGC, there was 7 members on.

    At the same time in UCC, there was 1 member on, me.

    At the same time in Fitness, there was 19 members on.

    At the same time in Soccer, there was 40 members on.

    At the same time in Fashion, there was 5 members on.

    At the same time in Photography, there was 20 members on.

    At the same time in The Noc, there was 1 member on, me.

    At 22:55, there was 131 members on in AHs.
    Dropped by 10

    At the same time in BGRH, there where 1 members on.
    No change.

    At the same time in tLL, there was 10 members on.
    No change.

    At the same time in tGC, there was 5 members on.
    Dropped by 2

    At the same time in UCC, there was 1 member on, me.
    No change.

    At the same time in Fitness, there was 23 members on.
    Increase of 4.

    At the same time in Soccer, there was 40 members on.
    Dropped by 8.

    At the same time in Fashion, there was 7 members on.
    Increase of 2.

    At the same time in Photography, there was 24 members on.
    Increase of 4.

    At the same time in The Noc, there was 1 member on, me.
    No change.

    There is a huge difference between the traffic in AHs and the forums you linked to Pete.

    Also, the banter and posting style of AH users is totally different, therefore it wouldn't be your normal chat thread.

    Between PM's, reported posts, trolls and spammers, there is enough for AHs mods to be doing.

    Re getting a mod for the thread:

    It wouldn't work because it's impossible to tell what mod will be online and when.

    In fairness can you not see that given the difference in traffic in AHs as opposed to the forums you linked to how heavily modded such a thread would have to be.


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    #80
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    Sharpshooter wrote: »

    In fairness can you not see that given the difference in traffic in AHs as opposed to the forums you linked to how heavily modded such a thread would have to be.

    would it not be worth trying it for a week and dealing with the same kind of figures you've posted above, rather than hypotheticals? a lot of people here have said they wouldn't post in such a thread, so the traffic probably wouldn't be as big as you think. you may be surprised :) my prediction is that it'd be busy for a week then get maybe ten to fifteen posts a day after that.


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    #81
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Sharpshooter wrote: »
    Between PM's, reported posts, trolls and spammers, there is enough for AHs mods to be doing.

    Is a large part of your time not taken up with chatter.

    Any night I am on AH it seems to be.

    If you close a thread, do you not get PMs of complaint?

    Do these not take up your time.

    You can't not see the posts that complain about AH threads being locked.

    Threads are even started as a retort.
    Sharpshooter wrote: »
    In fairness can you not see that given the difference in traffic in AHs as opposed to the forums you linked to how heavily modded such a thread would have to be.

    It is precisely because of the traffic that I am suggesting the thread.

    The fact that there is a large amount of people chattering on threads, ruining them (myself included) is just why AH needs an 'Off-topic' thread.

    I can post links to threads that you closed for the very reason that they had gone so far off-topic it was pointless leaving them open.

    At a guess, how many off-topic posts do you have to delete at the weekends for instance?

    From what I can see it is quite a lot.

    People are just using good threads as chat threads. Threads that people went to the bother of starting and they get veered off into the ditch.

    Again, I am not talking about Puns, or banter relating to the thread as that IS After Hours.

    One 'Off-topic' thread won't kill After Hours and if people keep their chatter for it, your job will even be a little easier.

    Think of all the 'On-topic' threads no longer been ruined. All the mindless chatter and flirting being kept to just ONE thread.

    At the end of the day, this is just a suggestion but unless the right people at least back it for a trial period, it's never gonna take legs.


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    #82
    Rabies
    Registered Users Posts: 15,258 ✭✭✭✭Rabies


    So at the end I think what you really want is #boards.ie to come back?

    Chatroulette is the new thing now


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    #83
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    tbh wrote: »
    would it not be worth trying it for a week and dealing with the same kind of figures you've posted above, rather than hypotheticals? a lot of people here have said they wouldn't post in such a thread, so the traffic probably wouldn't be as big as you think. you may be surprised :) my prediction is that it'd be busy for a week then get maybe ten to fifteen posts a day after that.

    Exactly and it could be used as a good tool to stop people veering threads off-topic with mindless chatter, as there will have been a place provided for just that.


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    #84
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Exactly and it could be used as a good tool to stop people veering threads off-topic with mindless chatter, as there will have been a place provided for just that.

    Off topic discussion starts by someone reacting to a post and replying to it, that can happen anywhere and not just specifically in an Off topic thread..thats why i think an foo topic thread wont cut down on off topic discussion in other AH threads.

    Thats not me giving a reason not to have an off topic thread, just making a point.


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    #85
    Sharpshooter
    Registered Users Posts: 31,859 ✭✭✭✭Sharpshooter


    OutlawPete wrote: »

    Think of all the 'On-topic' threads no longer been ruined. All the mindless chatter and flirting being kept to just ONE thread.

    The threads will still get ruined.
    People posting in the general thread in AHs will still post off topic.
    It is just the nature of the AH user.
    Which means we will still have to delete the posts and/or warn them not to do it again.

    An OTT will not stop this from happening.
    At the end of the day, this is just a suggestion but unless the right people at least back it for a trial period, it's never gonna take legs.


    Not one mod of AHs have said they want to mod a thread like this and AC has said he is very much against it when we discussed this before in the AH mod forum.


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    #86
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    tbh wrote: »
    would it not be worth trying it for a week and dealing with the same kind of figures you've posted above, rather than hypotheticals? a lot of people here have said they wouldn't post in such a thread, so the traffic probably wouldn't be as big as you think. you may be surprised :) my prediction is that it'd be busy for a week then get maybe ten to fifteen posts a day after that.

    While we're at it why not give all posters read acess to the moderators forum.


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    #87
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Sharpshooter wrote: »
    An OTT will not stop this from happening.

    I don't think it will stop it full stop but would could out a very large percentage of it imo.

    People would soon become more aware that there is a time and place to chat-off topic and it is in the specified thread and not wanted in other threads unless it relates to the thread topic.

    Right now there is no option but to derail threads, the weekend is the worst for it and late nights.


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    #88
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    TheZohan wrote: »
    While we're at it why not give all posters read acess to the moderators forum.

    I believe its been suggested before

    Suprisingly there wasnt alot of moderators interested in it. :pac:


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    #89
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    we'llallhavetea wrote: »
    but this will be an off topic thread, so really there is no specific topic.

    so no one can berate you for not reading the whole thread.

    There's always some tool who has poured over every word of 500 pages waiting to correct someone on some tiny details (or spelling mistake).
    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Is a large part of your time not taken up with chatter.
    :confused::confused:Is sharpshooter with the american intelligence community ? I suppose it would explain the name alright.
    TheZohan wrote: »
    While we're at it why not give all posters read acess to the moderators forum.
    Yes please !!:D


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    #90
    we'llallhavetea_old
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭we'llallhavetea_old


    opinion guy wrote: »
    There's always some tool who has poured over every word of 500 pages waiting to correct someone on some tiny details (or spelling mistake).

    ach, well they're in every thread :)


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    #91
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    we'llallhavetea wrote: »
    ach, well they're in every thread :)

    True. But thats my point. Its impossible to have read everything in these 500 page threads. Yet you get hammered for not having done so

    In fact I've recently returned to posting in PI/RI on account of this problem - in part because by their nature the threads remain short and you can easily review them. (That and helping people)


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