Dodgy Tradespeople

Faulty Basil

Hi Folks,

First post on Boards so sorry if this topic has been mentioned before.
Basically I had a tradesperson do some work in my house, they made a mess of it and refused to fix it properly. Problem is they were paid (I know - foolish, but basically i asked someone else to pay them as I wasn't around and this person didn't notice the shabby work) and now refuse to refund what we need to fix the problem and won't engage in any discussion to resolve it.
I will be taking legal action but at the same time anyone I mention it to says I should report them - but where? I could post here but I'm sure there are strict rules about this...?
Aside from the fact that I am out of pocket I know that this person is going to continue ripping other people off.

Thanks.

robo

Maybe others can clarify this, but could you take them to the small claims court? How much did the work cost?

P. Breathnach

Faulty Basil wrote: »

... I will be taking legal action but at the same time anyone I mention it to says I should report them - but where? ...

Many people seem to believe that there are agencies to which reports of poor workmanship or service can be reported. In general, there aren't, particularly in the building trades. If somebody suggest that you report a tradesman or tradeswoman, ask that person to clarify. You will usually find that they can not.

Go ahead with your legal action, and good luck with it.

Faulty Basil

Thanks for the replies...

Small claims are an option but in order to submit a claim you need a VAT number for the person and a business address. These are a bit difficult to get when the person refuses to engage with you...imagine how irritating it is when you ring and they say they're not talking and hang up....with my money in their pocket!!
Its a couple of hundred euro I'm out of pocket. well, thats what it cost to fix their mess but I paid them a lot more than that, not to mention materials etc.

If nothing else I would like to warn other people off this person as they are clearly not skilled in the trade they claim to be.

Cabaal

Faulty Basil wrote: »

Thanks for the replies...

Small claims are an option but in order to submit a claim you need a VAT number for the person and a business address. These are a bit difficult to get when the person refuses to engage with you...imagine how irritating it is when you ring and they say they're not talking and hang up....with my money in their pocket!!
Its a couple of hundred euro I'm out of pocket. well, thats what it cost to fix their mess but I paid them a lot more than that, not to mention materials etc.

If nothing else I would like to warn other people off this person as they are clearly not skilled in the trade they claim to be.

Easy get the VAT number, advise him that you will be taking small claims against him and if he refuses to provide you with the required details (provided he is VAT registered) then advise you will be reporting him to the revenue

is he a company or sole trader, if he's registered as a company you'll find him through http://www.cro.ie/search/CompanySearch.aspx

the_syco

Cabaal wrote: »

Easy get the VAT number, advise him that you will be taking small claims against him and if you refuses to provide you with the required details (provided he is VAT registered) then advise you will be reporting him to the revenue

is he a company or sole trader, if he's registered as a company you'll find him through http://www.cro.ie/search/CompanySearch.aspx

Agree with this. Often enough the cowboys don't tell Revenue that they are doing a part time job.

dudara

Please don't name them - but do tell us what industry they are in.

There are different bodies for each industry, so maybe that can help as a starting place.

Faulty Basil

Yep, I checked the CRO but they said sole traders aren't obliged to register. great isn't it?!

their 'trade' is tiling although not much evidence of it...

I've mentioned small claims and full legal action but they're not bothered. From advise I've been given they may have gone through this before and have no intention of giving out their VAT number knowing my hands are sort of tied without it.
Revenue, understandably i suppose, are not willing to do it either.

I'm raging even thinking about it - what ever happened to doing an honest days work for an honest days pay.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

The whole VAT number thing has me puzzled. What happens if you wish to make a claim against someone who is not VAT registered because they are under the thresholds for registration? I'm not a lawyer but I'm sure there isn't a loophole which exempts all small businesses from being taken to court like this.

Sole traders are obliged to register the business name if they are not using their own name. The business name should be searchable through the CRO even if it's not a limited company. If this guy has not registered as a business you may have to pursue a full court case rather than the small claims court though which would not be ideal.

antoinolachtnai

Who said you needed a vat number to be sued under the small claims procedure?

If you do not have an address for this guy, or at the very least, unambiguous identification, I don't see how you are going to take action against him in any court, since there is no way to serve papers.

MunsterCycling

Just get someone else to ring them looking to get work done and then get the details form them that way, of course never letting them touch any work.

Faulty Basil

bit of an update on this...

I received a text saying 'some' of the money was refunded. When the dispute arose first there was an agreement made for refunding of x amount. So i passed on my bank details. The agreed sum was not paid in but a much smaller amount was. Now, small claims have told me that if there has been an 'effort' to repay any of the amount (even if its 1 euro!) then the remainder of the disputed money is considered a bad debt and they cannot take the case!!
so, effectively, if someone owes you 1000 and they repay 1 euro, 999 is considered a bad debt, small claims won't touch it, and you're stuck!

As I said if nothing else I would like to warn others off this person but I'm sure I'll be banned from here if i mention names...(will I?)

NUTLEY BOY

Faulty Basil wrote: »

bit of an update on this...

I received a text saying 'some' of the money was refunded. When the dispute arose first there was an agreement made for refunding of x amount. So i passed on my bank details. The agreed sum was not paid in but a much smaller amount was. Now, small claims have told me that if there has been an 'effort' to repay any of the amount (even if its 1 euro!) then the remainder of the disputed money is considered a bad debt and they cannot take the case!!
so, effectively, if someone owes you 1000 and they repay 1 euro, 999 is considered a bad debt, small claims won't touch it, and you're stuck!

As I said if nothing else I would like to warn others off this person but I'm sure I'll be banned from here if i mention names...(will I?)

Sounds very unsatisfactory. I would double check that answer from the Small Claims Court people. I am not disputing what they say but it just sounds so daft for exactly the reason you point out.

The fact is that if you feel that there has been a breach of contract you are still entitled to sue. So, you can still proceed in the District Court. You will probably need a solicitor.

Exclamation Marc

Faulty Basil wrote: »

bit of an update on this...

I received a text saying 'some' of the money was refunded. When the dispute arose first there was an agreement made for refunding of x amount. So i passed on my bank details. The agreed sum was not paid in but a much smaller amount was. Now, small claims have told me that if there has been an 'effort' to repay any of the amount (even if its 1 euro!) then the remainder of the disputed money is considered a bad debt and they cannot take the case!!
so, effectively, if someone owes you 1000 and they repay 1 euro, 999 is considered a bad debt, small claims won't touch it, and you're stuck!

As I said if nothing else I would like to warn others off this person but I'm sure I'll be banned from here if i mention names...(will I?)

An "effort to pay" has to be a satisfactory amount, and from experience, throwaway amounts don't count as "efforts to pay". The courts see right through this, as otherwise nothing would ever get to the small claims court. One of my old workmates was involved in a small claims court with a high street retailer and they offered him a €20 gift voucher on a debt of €500 or thereabouts and their claim that they made an "effort to pay" was thrown out.

So if the money they paid you back is blatantly unsatisfactory, I'd continue to take legal proceedings against them. If they're still operating as a business, then trying to pan you off with unsubstantial "refunds" won't fly with the courts. Considering it seems to be getting messy, I'd contact a solicitor.

looksee

Do you have any sort of receipt from him? Maybe tell him you are going to check his credentials with the Tax Office.

I have a similar situation, a badly done job in which most of the equipment installed eventually had to be redone. There is a very poor tiling job that I will have to get redone too. I do not intend to try and chase it though, it would only annoy me and in the end if he offers to 'put it right' I do not want to have to argue with him that I do not want him in the house again.

Good luck to you if you are prepared to fight it though, there really should be some sort of license system for tradesmen. Your house is your most expensive possession and it seems that it is the least protected when you have to get anything done to it.