Electric car, Would you buy one.

Overheal

Lu Tze wrote: »

Does anybody know how the battery life holds out? After a year are youl likely to only be getting 70 miles as opposed to the 100 miles when new?

My understanding is you Lease the Lithium Ion battery separately. Hence you would get it swapped regularly.

Its still gonna last you several years. A laptop battery SHOULD last normally 3-4 years. Mine sure has. But most people never take the thing off the plug. It ruins the battery life. I doubt youd see the same habit in an electric car though. Pretty impractical to drive on the plug.

Liam Byrne

Aside from the car and the crap range, how the hell do you install the charge point a home, and what does it cost, and is it tamper-proof, and can you stop some other gob****e plugging in and charging at your expense ?

And what about all those people in badly-planned estates where they can't park anywhere near their house, or those in apartments who park - if they're lucky - in a multi-storey ?

I doubt the snots have even considered any of the above issues.

Overheal

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Aside from the car and the crap range, how the hell do you install the charge point a home, and what does it cost, and is it tamper-proof, and can you stop some other gob****e plugging in and charging at your expense ?

Padlock the charge port? Pincode? ED-209?

And what about all those people in badly-planned estates where they can't park anywhere near their house, or those in apartments who park - if they're lucky - in a multi-storey ?

Don't buy electric yet?

I doubt the snots have even considered any of the above issues.

And how dare Steve Jobs make an iPad that people below the poverty line cant buy, too? Doesnt mean everyone and their granny wont get a hold of one in 5-10 years.

Liam Byrne

Overheal wrote: »

Padlock the charge port?

That only attempts to answer - badly - one of the issues in that sentence......what will it cost, etc ?

And my point was that it's not going to be padlocked while you're charging your car overnight, so there's nothing to stop someone disconnecting yours and connecting theirs, or just some local ASBO candidates disconnecting yours so that you're screwed in the morning. How does a padlock solve either of those ?

Overheal wrote: »

Don't buy electric yet?

What does "yet" have to do with it, if that's where they live ?

Overheal wrote: »

And how dare Steve Jobs make an iPad that people below the poverty line cant buy, too? Doesnt mean everyone and their granny wont get a hold of one in 5-10 years.

An iPad isn't a necessity in Ireland. A car pretty much is.

And with the new taxes on standard cars where you're being fleeced until you change, the Greens are ensuring that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Overheal

Liam Byrne wrote: »

An iPad isn't a necessity in Ireland. A car pretty much is.

No. Its not. The Car is not even remotely as essential to daily life in Ireland as it is the US. England and France too for that matter, get on pretty well without cars for the most part. If you dont have a car in the US, even a little piece of ****, $300 beater, you're in real trouble. Its just how the place is lain out. America's Suburban sprawl; **** is just Not Generally Designed for foot traffic. No such thing as a Town Centre. I miss such things.

And with the new taxes on standard cars where you're being fleeced until you change, the Greens are ensuring that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Cant speak to that.

Liam Byrne

Overheal wrote: »

No. Its not. The Car is not even remotely as essential to daily life in Ireland as it is the US.

I have no idea what the U.S. has to do with this discussion, or what "not as essential" even means (considering something is either essential or its not)

I don't know where you're living, but I can tell you for a fact that a car is an absolute essential in most parts of Ireland.

Overheal

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That only attempts to answer - badly - one of the issues in that sentence......what will it cost, etc ?

Can't help you there.

And my point was that it's not going to be padlocked while you're charging your car overnight, so there's nothing to stop someone disconnecting yours and connecting theirs, or just some local ASBO candidates disconnecting yours so that you're screwed in the morning. How does a padlock solve either of those ?

http://www.amazon.com/MM510C-Weatherproof-Outdoor-Receptacle-Protector/dp/B001JEPX4Y

+

Padlock

= Win.

You could also very easily distinguish through the plug itself the ID of the vehicle being charged. Similarly my Jeep Key knows the difference between my key and a duplicate someone made of my key at Lowe's, thanks to RFID.

dlofnep

If the infrastructure was setup all over Ireland at the mo, I would. When it does - I'd be interested. Green, and cheap!

Liam Byrne

Overheal wrote: »

http://www.amazon.com/MM510C-Weatherproof-Outdoor-Receptacle-Protector/dp/B001JEPX4Y

+

Padlock

= Win.

I don't see a facility to padlock that while it's plugged in, but I do take your point.

I would still say that the plastic is easily broken / vandalised, so your other suggestion would also be required in order to ensure that someone didn't just break the plastic and plug in their car.

Overheal wrote: »

You could also very easily distinguish through the plug itself the ID of the vehicle being charged. Similarly my Jeep Key knows the difference between my key and a duplicate someone made of my key at Lowe's, thanks to RFID.

And I'm not saying that it's not technically possible, either; I just don't believe that all of this has been thought through by those proposing it.

Nuttzz

Im going to buy one as soon as they become available and then run over John Gromley on his mountain bike

"Thats a shame John, you'd of hear me if it was a diesel"

dlofnep

Wait, I retract my statement. I just saw the cost of em! How on earth are people supposed to migrate over with cars that expensive?

alex73

dlofnep wrote: »

Wait, I retract my statement. I just saw the cost of em! How on earth are people supposed to migrate over with cars that expensive?

Exactly!!!, my point in a earlier post, as they stand the are really only for the upper middle class in Dublin.

franklyshocked

Hydrogen Fuel cells or something like them is the only way forward.
In ireland most of our electricity is produced from fossil fuel. If everyone tomorrow went to electric cars we would need to produce more fossil fuel driven electricity not making us any greener. Its a false economy.
Green fecking idiots.

Manic Moran

Could they not have battery swap stations rather than recharge stations? Let the station charge the batteries all day, only takes two seconds to swap when you need more power.

I dunno what size the batteries are though, mightn't be feasible

The battery pack in the Tesla, admittedly a beefier electric car than most, consists of over 6,000 cells and comes in at just under a half a ton. Takes a little more than two seconds to swap out.

Nissan LEAF's pack is much shorter ranged, and comes in at about a quarter-ton.

One option which was proposed was draining the fluid and replacing it with new fluid using a pumping station (Literally filling her up), but I don't know if it works for that sort of battery.

NTM

cianof

I voted "100% I will get one."

All the negheads might have a different opinion about electric cars if they had actually driven one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwwKxG4OhPc#t=1m16s

GavRedKing

Not a chance, its a good idea but just not practical in this country at them moment.

cianof

Right now poll is 11.71%, "100% I will get one."

If 11.7% of people in the country drove electric cars, that would be over 200,000 electric cars.

They're only hoping for 2000 in 1st year.

People seem to think its a conspiracy:
"The Greenies !!...., they're going to make us all drive electric cars. :mad:"

The reality is that electric cars are happening irrespective of whatever government we have on this little island.

Just look, all major car manufactures are working a EVs. Ford, VW, Audi, PSA, Mitsubishi, Subaru.....all working on production model EVs.

They'll make up a small % of the all cars on the road, because they don't suit all motorists requirements. If they do suit your driving requirements the make a lot of sense.

alex73

cianof wrote: »

Right now poll is 11.71%, "100% I will get one."

If 11.7% of people in the country drove electric cars, that would be over 200,000 electric cars.

They're only hoping for 2000 in 1st year.

People seem to think its a conspiracy:
"The Greenies !!...., they're going to make us all drive electric cars. :mad:"

The reality is that electric cars are happening irrespective of whatever government we have on this little island.

Just look, all major car manufactures are working a EVs. Ford, VW, Audi, PSA, Mitsubishi, Subaru.....all working on production model EVs.

They'll make up a small % of the all cars on the road, because they don't suit all motorists requirements. If they do suit your driving requirements the make a lot of sense.

Its all a matter of getting an electric car that meets the customers requirements. If they become as fast as petrol car and can run as far and cheaper then they will be popular, I suppose its all a game of wait and see.

Its like the 1st generation Iphone... it was ok, but the 3rd generation was a lot better.

dave_connolly3

franklyshocked wrote: »

In ireland most of our electricity is produced from fossil fuel. If everyone tomorrow went to electric cars we would need to produce more fossil fuel driven electricity not making us any greener. Its a false economy.
Green fecking idiots.

Even if all the electricity at power plants was produced from fossil fuels, that would still have less emissions than from a petrol car. This is a fact. Also, with some of that power produced from wind etc. that makes the saving even more & hopefully they will improve renewables.

Also, with electric cars, you would take away those health damaging exhaust fumes coming from cars in cities, which harm people's health in the cities.

Gunmonkey

While I am not in the financial situation to buy ANY car for years to come, would prefer an electric/diesel hybrid meself. Got the same low running cost as pure electric but with the diesel generator as a backup in case of untimely low battery.

franklyshocked wrote: »

Hydrogen Fuel cells or something like them is the only way forward.
In ireland most of our electricity is produced from fossil fuel. If everyone tomorrow went to electric cars we would need to produce more fossil fuel driven electricity not making us any greener. Its a false economy.
Green fecking idiots.

No offence....but how do you think they produce the hydrogen liquid? Its a massive electrical investment and most reports I have read indicate that you get 20-25% of the energy input back out in the form of compressed hydrogen.

And we mainly generate electricity NOW by fossil fuels, but if the government would pull their collective thumbs out long enough to fund more wave and tide generator research we could drastically cut our need for fossil fuels, which we import anyways and would do the same for hydrogen as we have no hydrogen production plants here either.

As for the lack of charging stations nationwide, wasnt it the same when petrol cars were first intorduced, no petrol stations on every street corner? And wouldnt it be the same problem if we all went out and bought hydrogen powered cars tomorrow?

As for the whole hydrogen vs electric debate, how come there is both petrol and diesel pumps in almost all filling station? Surely one must have won the fuel race years ago

Pretty_Pistol

I saw one of the two seater electric cars going arond town the other day. If you were in a crash in one of those things you would have no hope and be crushed to death.

KevR

Nuttzz wrote: »

Im going to buy one as soon as they become available and then run over John Gromley on his mountain bike

"Thats a shame John, you'd of hear me if it was a diesel"

All the more reason for them to reduce speed limits further because pedestrians (who are seemingly not obliged to look before walking out onto the road) and cyclists (who are also allowed to do whatever they want without looking first) won't be able to hear the electric cars. 15kmh speed limit in Dublin City Centre anyone?

Also, I believe that as soon as electric cars become widespread, the government will introduce either a road pricing scheme or a car battery recharge tax. They rake in roughly €7 Billion in motor related taxes ever year and spend roughly only €1 Billion on roads every year. That's never going to change - private motorists will always get raped financially. :mad:

cianof

@Pretty_Pistol
G-wiz/Reva is not an electric car.
G-wiz/Reva is an electric quadracycle.

Hydrogen fuel cells. 2 Problems.
1) Price of fuel cells
http://palladiumprice.org/palladium-price-per-kilo.html

2) Energy required to produce hydrogen (Energy in Vs energy produced)

Pretty_Pistol

cianof wrote: »

@Pretty_Pistol
G-wiz/Reva is not an electric car.
G-wiz/Reva is an electric quadracycle.

Oh right, it was advertising an electric car website on the side of it so I just presumed it was one.

cianof

Those "cars" are registered as quadracycles, they don't have to pass the same safety tests as a regular car.

I wouldn't buy one, nor would I consider using them as a yard stick by which to measure the viability of electric cars.

Manic Moran

cianof wrote: »

Right now poll is 11.71%, "100% I will get one."

If 11.7% of people in the country drove electric cars, that would be over 200,000 electric cars..

The problem with Internet polls like this is that there is no indication of people putting their money where their mouths are. When it comes time to actually fork over five figures, the 'good idea' suddenly gets a significant gut check.

NTM

Overheal

Manic Moran wrote: »

a significant gut check.

NTM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_coeA30NyPU

Love that clip

Mike 1972

Manic Moran wrote: »

no indication of people putting their money where their mouths are. When it comes time to actually fork over five figures, the 'good idea' suddenly gets a significant gut check.

To an extent you are correct however you are basing it on the probably erronious assumption that the price of these vehicles wont come down as manufacturing volumes increase and development costs are recouped.

Petrol cars were considered toys for the super rich before (and indeed for a good while after) the introduction of the Model T

The level of negativity RE: this scheme is pretty mind boggling. Granted it is not without its flaws and aspects of its implementation could be better thought out (but this is Ireland after all) but electric vehicle technology is still in its infancy and many of the problems will be ironed out in the years ahead.

Personally I wouldnt buy an EV today but I could see myself seriously considering it five years from now.

cianof

Once people are given a chance to buy a decent EV, produced by the main auto manufactures sales should follow the usual adoption cycle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_lifecycle

It makes sense, that most people are going to wait and see.

Manic Moran

To an extent you are correct however you are basing it on the probably erronious assumption that the price of these vehicles wont come down as manufacturing volumes increase and development costs are recouped.

Hell, I'll buy a kitchen nuclear fusion plant when the prices come down and the technology improves... Still waiting for the price of an airplane to drop though. For some reason, Cessnas are getting more expensive, even though the technology is way mature. $33,000 would buy you a C-172 in 1981. Cost you $269,000 today, and I don't think it's inflation.

For the purposes of this government program the thread references, however...

NTM

Mike 1972

Manic Moran wrote: »

Hell, I'll buy a kitchen nuclear fusion plant when the prices come down and the technology improves...

Which is why various governments have been funding fusion R&D for several decades now

Remember when the Government introduced tax incentives to stop us using leaded petrol ?

Gekko

If they sorted out the battery technology so they have a longer range, and they were reasonably affordable, then I would buy one.

For now thought I'm waiting for either a hybrid Range Rover or the hybrid Land Rover LRX, providing I can afford either of these when they come out, that is!

Or maybe I'll just get a standard petrol VW Golf.

Seachmall

I'd buy one if the gov built a giant scalextric track around Ireland too.

CrackerXYZ

Only if it is an eletric flying car.:D