Why is being fat/obese socially acceptable?

Handsome Bob

topper75 wrote: »

So long as they can all promise to go private on treatment for diabetes type II and high blood pressure etc. later on, I would say "Go stuff your face - it's none of my business" and we can all be happy in our skin!!

That's fine, I just hope you're as passionate about how your tax paying money is being used in other areas. Personally, footing the bill for someone's medical expenses would be pretty low down in my list of beefs about how the tax payer's money is being used.

These scumbags are in the minority and to be ignored. 99.99% of people interested in health and fitness are positive-minded and only hold admiration for people who set about tackling their problems.

I admire you for having this attitude, but all it takes is one person to make a thoughtless remark to knock someone's confidence. You might say **** that, they should develop a thicker skin (no pun intended ) but if you're uneasy in the gym environment in the first place then it won't take much to discourage you from going to the place.

I think it is valid to hold laziness and poor lifestyle choice in contempt though, rather than the person: hate the sin, not the sinner.

I don't see how you can say that when it's not affecting you unless it's a case of what I like to call the beautiful people attitude, that you only want to be greeted by people that you deem physically attractive.

"Hating the sin, not the sinner" gives you no right to ridicule someone's lifestyle if it isn't hurting you.

Originally posted by Sgt Hartman
Speak for yourself, an obese guy stepped on my mother's foot in a pub fifteen years ago and her foot hasn't been right since

The bollocks, a plague on him! :pac:

Precious flower

In fairness sometimes it can be due to a medical condition, so it is extremely hard for some people to lose weight, but I do think everyone should strive to be as healthy as they can, after all no one wants to get a heart attack at the age of 35. Technology has been a main cause for obesity in Ireland, children should be encouraged more to go outside and play and use they're imagination instead of letting the TV do it for them.

PeakOutput

LZ5by5 wrote: »

"Hating the sin, not the sinner" gives you no right to ridicule someone's lifestyle if it isn't hurting you.

thats crap

i would never insult any person personally about their weight but commenting on fat people as a group is not the same as ridiculing someone.

id put money on no more than 1 in 100 fat people having a medical condition that causes obesity and more money on all of them having medical conditions of some sort relating to their weight at some point

CreepingDeath

PeakOutput wrote: »

id put money on no more than 1 in 100 fat people having a medical condition that causes obesity

What's your definition of a medical condition ?
You're probably using the narrow definition of something like an overactive thyroid.
What about depression, agoraphobia, anxiety disorders, would you include them in your estimates for medical conditions ?

Handsome Bob

PeakOutput wrote: »

thats crap

i would never insult any person personally about their weight but commenting on fat people as a group is not the same as ridiculing someone.

id put money on no more than 1 in 100 fat people having a medical condition that causes obesity and more money on all of them having medical conditions of some sort relating to their weight at some point

The OP is asking whether or not people deem "socially acceptable" to be fat. He's very much coming from an angle where he's asking us if we should treat people with contempt and as out casts. That's what the thread is about. That's what I'm talking about.

tc2010

CreepingDeath wrote: »

What's your definition of a medical condition ?
You're probably using the narrow definition of something like an overactive thyroid.
What about depression, agoraphobia, anxiety disorders, would you include them in your estimates for medical conditions ?

what came first? depression or obesity

the_syco

m@cc@ wrote: »

A lot of it is luck in terms of metabolism. When I was in my teens, I could eat and drink what I liked. But now in my mid-20s, I can see the effects that it's having so I hold back on certain things that I eat.

Aye, likewise. Started to get fat when I cut down on running through the fields causing mischief and mayhem, to now, where I play games online instead of on the street. Meh. Must get back playing sports.

Bottle_of_Smoke

CreepingDeath wrote: »

What's your definition of a medical condition ?
You're probably using the narrow definition of something like an overactive thyroid.
What about depression, agoraphobia, anxiety disorders, would you include them in your estimates for medical conditions ?

I wouldn't, unless the depression was extremely severe. agoraphobia/anxiety disorders the person could do weights at home or watch their diet.

Sapsorrow

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I wouldn't, unless the depression was extremely severe. agoraphobia/anxiety disorders the person could do weights at home or watch their diet.

Wow I'd put money on it that you've never suffered from depression. Even a 'mild' dose of depression can make you feel like you don't even want to get out of bed to eat breakfast in the morning let alone go to the gym or for a walk.

PeakOutput

metabolism is not an excuse its easy to adjust to

Sapsorrow

I'm shocked at the hateful and judgemental attitudes in this thread, I truly hope the opinions expressed in here aren't representavtive of the population as a whole, this is really making my wonder just how nice we Irish people as actually are. Are we really this unaccepting of people who aren't like us for one reason or another? Surely the people being judgemental here have someone they care about who struggles with their weight? A mother or close friend etc?? I'm not going to follow this thread anymore it makes me so sad to think people look at my mum and friends that I love so much in that way just because they're overweight.

topper75

The medical thing and mental health thing are red herrings. So is 'genes'.

Are the conditions that some argue promote obesity (thyroid, depression) contagious? No the hell they are not!

Can a whole country change its genetic makeup in a single generation? No the hell it can't!

These, then, are not the reasons why there has been a marked increase in the prevalence of overweight people on this island over the last 20 years.

It is a failure to curb intake of overly-processed foods and an avoidance of any physical effort where possible. An national attitude change for the worse basically, and very much about factors WITHIN peoples' control.

You know yourself that you used to cycle and now drive. You know yourself that you work sitting down all day. Therefore the onus is on YOU to get out and do something active at some point in your day. If you don't.... well, you don't have to be Einstein to know where that is going. No sympathy going here.

PeakOutput

khrystyna100 wrote: »

I'm shocked at the hateful and judgemental attitudes in this thread, I truly hope the opinions expressed in here aren't representavtive of the population as a whole, this is really making my wonder just how nice we Irish people as actually are. Are we really this unaccepting of people who aren't like us for one reason or another? Surely the people being judgemental here have someone they care about who struggles with their weight? A mother or close friend etc?? I'm not going to follow this thread anymore it makes me so sad to think people look at my mum and friends that I love so much in that way just because they're overweight.

its not about juding people or looking down on them i dont treat anyone differently cause of their weight. however if it comes up and they arent a stranger id tell them i thought they were full of excuses and if they arent happy with how they look they can change it, if they are happy then fine but all the excuses fat people spout for not being able to change are just that, excuses

Penny Dreadful

khrystyna100 wrote: »

I'm shocked at the hateful and judgemental attitudes in this thread, I truly hope the opinions expressed in here aren't representavtive of the population as a whole, this is really making my wonder just how nice we Irish people as actually are. Are we really this unaccepting of people who aren't like us for one reason or another? Surely the people being judgemental here have someone they care about who struggles with their weight? A mother or close friend etc?? I'm not going to follow this thread anymore it makes me so sad to think people look at my mum and friends that I love so much in that way just because they're overweight.[/QUOTE]

My mum is overweight and she has been for ages. For years and years she could eat what she wanted and there wasn't a pick on her. She had her 6th baby at 40 and left the hospital a size 10 thinking she was massive (which she wasn't even close to being). However, menopause, abdominal surgery and a very sweet tooth all changed things. Now she is 66 and rather overweight.
She hates it and goes on all kinds of fad diets but the crux of the matter is she has no self control about her food and she uses it as a crutch when she gets upset about things. I love her tons ( no pun intended) but it annoys me how a) she can be rather scathing to me and others in my family) when she is the only one who orders desert if we're out for a meal but she still goes ahead and gets it. b) complains about being overweight but will have 6 biscuits rather than none or one. c) pretty much inhales her meals, her dinner is gone before I am half way through mine and so all of the food is eaten before the body knows whats hit it.
My mother isn't the only one in the country like this. In a bid to find a reason for her weight she has had herself tested for an underactive thyroid, diabetes, food addiciton,and who can remember what the hell else. All of her tests came back clear. The simple fact of the matter is she eats more energy than she spends and it stores itself as fat and yes it annoys the hell out of me that she wonders and wonders and regrets and complains about her weight but keeps on truckin' with the food.

Sapsorrow

Well thats your experience, my mum is the opposite she's always the one that only takes the steamed veg and fish and never has any chips, potatos or rice or more often than not she makes herself a bean and tomato stew to have AND makes us something seperate that would be too fattening for her to have. She always makes us brownies and other treats when we visit and sits there eating natural yoghurt or something equally dismal while we enjoy ourselves. Everyday she makes fresh bread for my dad and doesn't eat any herself. She always has lovely cheeses in the house for my dad and she doesn't allow herself to eat that either. She never gets to partake in the celebrations food wise and yet she is overweight and she eats more healthily than anyone I know. She can't work out because she has a spinal condition (a genetic type of arthritis in the lower spinal column) that she exacerbated a few years back with a bad fall and is in a lot of pain (and shes nearly 60) she even tried yoga and wasn't able for it. Please take the time to consider that each person has a different story and none of us have any right to sit back and judge or deride anyone just because we hapeen to be lucky enough to be slim naturally, educated enough to make the right nutritional decisions or happen to enjoy/be healthy enough to exercise.

PeakOutput

khrystyna100 wrote: »

She can't work out because she has a spinal condition

no1 has said anything bad about people with legitimate medical conditions that i have read but i havnt read the entire thread. you are choosing to be offended over comments that dont apply either personally or generally to your mother

most fat people dont have medical conditions and are too lazy to change themselves. this is fine as long as they dont go on making excuses about it instead of being honest to themselves and everyone else that they are just too lazy to change

quad_red

Similar story - my mom is on total thyroid replacement now. She eats well but this combined with severe arthritis (has had both knees replaced) puts her in a very difficult situation and she does struggle with her weight.

I find it enormously depressing that people would look on her with disgust. That they feel entitled to judge her in that way.

We have mean spiritedness dressed up as righteous indignation at the cost that 'fatties' are levying on the tax payer.

Our country is on it's knee's from a heady cocktail of greed and narcissism. A wave of endless shallow self satisfaction, of reaching the next level of self vindication (bigger house, bigger car, vane obsession, step on the faces of the weak to get what you 'deserve').

We all need to look at ourselves in the mirror and make genuine valuations of the kinds of people we are and have let ourselves become before we have the right to start pouring our bile in the direction of people who have little/no detrimental impact on our lives.

Sapsorrow

PeakOutput wrote: »

no1 has said anything bad about people with legitimate medical conditions that i have read but i havnt read the entire thread. you are choosing to be offended over comments that dont apply either personally or generally to your mother

most fat people dont have medical conditions and are too lazy to change themselves. this is fine as long as they dont go on making excuses about it instead of being honest to themselves and everyone else that they are just too lazy to change

I'm offended by all comments that are harshly judging people they don't even know and insisting they are being greedy and/or lazy whether they apply to my mother or not.The point about my mum was simply to illustrate that you never know the whole story behind a situation unless that person is close to you. Its easy to sit back and say they're being lazy or whatever but you have no idea whats going on in their lives or in their heads that might be behind their weight problem.

Dudess

quad_red wrote: »

We have mean spiritedness dressed up as righteous indignation at the cost that 'fatties' are levying on the tax payer.

+1

I can't help but think if all fat people were suddenly slim tomorrow, those who are so cruel to them (and dress this up as concern for health, the taxpayer etc) would be gutted that a group for them to ridicule is gone... and would move on to some other group to bully - in order to feel good about themselves.

quad_red

PeakOutput wrote: »

most fat people dont have medical conditions and are too lazy to change themselves. this is fine as long as they dont go on making excuses about it instead of being honest to themselves and everyone else that they are just too lazy to change

What exactly do they owe you?

Why should anyone have to explain themselves to you?

"oh PeakOutPut, I'm so fat and it's all my own fault. Unlike yourself, who is balanced in all aspects of life, I am scum".

Live and let live. It's not healthy being obese. And society does need to put resources into ensuring kids learn to eat healthily, that people are made aware of the seriously detrimental costs that being overweight brings. But society can't make people skinny.

The same can be said about cigarettes, booze whatever. People smoke cos they 'need' it and will definitely give up next year.

We were in the mountains last weekend, in the glorious sun, and we'd a chat how sad it was that so many people had never experienced the hills, the outdoors. They did only what they knew - pissed on saturday night, couch all day Sunday.

I think that's sad - but I don't feel superior to anyone else. Nor do I have the right to be disgusted etc.

Sapsorrow

Quad-red you rock! I wish I coud express my frustration so well.

I'd like to know how the people complaining about obesity being a fiscal drain on the health care system, taxs etc. do you extend your anger towards those with cancer (even the very modest estimates say 50% is accounted for by diet) or our elderly people who suffer from osteoperosis (also largely determined by diet, exercise and other lifestyle factors)? What about heart disease and diabetes, they don't only affect obese people. If thats the case, who of us is ever going to live our lives without being a 'drain' on society? Who here isn't going to end up chronically ill at some point with a disease that they in some way played a part in getting through bad dietary and lifestyle choices? Does that make those ill people selfish too because one day their families and children will lose a parent or grandparent etc? Surely by the logic that obesity is a selfish 'lifestyle choice' this should extend to nearly all chronic diseases regardless of whether or not obesity is present?

Hugo Drax

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Quad-red you rock! I wish I coud express my frustration so well.

I'd like to know how the people complaining about obesity being a fiscal drain on the health care system, taxs etc. do you extend your anger towards those with cancer (even the very modest estimates say 50% is accounted for by diet) or our elderly people who suffer from osteoperosis (also largely determined by diet, exercise and other lifestyle factors)? What about heart disease and diabetes, they don't only affect obese people. If thats the case, who of us is ever going to live our lives without being a 'drain' on society? Who here isn't going to end up chronically ill at some point with a disease that they in some way played a part in getting through bad dietary and lifestyle choices? Does that make those ill people selfish too because one day their families and children will lose a parent or grandparent etc? Surely by the logic that obesity is a selfish 'lifestyle choice' this should extend to nearly all chronic diseases regardless of whether or not obesity is present?

To be honest, I don't feel anybody who works and pays extortionate taxes should have to apologise for being a drain on the health service.

You've paid for the right to avail of it.

PeakOutput

quad_red wrote: »

What exactly do they owe you?

Why should anyone have to explain themselves to you?

"oh PeakOutPut, I'm so fat and it's all my own fault. Unlike yourself, who is balanced in all aspects of life, I am scum".

no1 called anyone scum.

Live and let live. It's not healthy being obese. And society does need to put resources into ensuring kids learn to eat healthily, that people are made aware of the seriously detrimental costs that being overweight brings. But society can't make people skinny.

im glad you brought up kids as thats where i have the main problem with peoples behaviour. having a fat child is inexcusable and imo is child abuse. there is no reason for it besides utter laziness

The same can be said about cigarettes, booze whatever. People smoke cos they 'need' it and will definitely give up next year.

i similarly have no time for people who give excuse after excuse about smoking or their behaviour while drunk. either do something about it or shut the **** up and accept the consequences thats all im sayin.

Nor do I have the right to be disgusted etc.

i have the right to be disgusted at the attitudes of these people(these very specific people im talking about not your mom with her bad knees or your uncle with thyroid cancer because they are not the majority)who are in the position they are due to personal choice(or bad parenting i am sympathetic if thats the case) they go on like they are part of a minority group and deserve special rights / protections in the same way as say homosexuals or ethnic minorities. legitimate medical conditions aside fat people should have no protection regular people dont in any situation (eg the situation i mentioned earlier were ryanair would charge you for two seats if you take up two seats, its perfectly fair unless you have a legitimate medical condition)

Penny Dreadful

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Well thats your experience, my mum is the opposite she's always the one that only takes the steamed veg and fish and never has any chips, potatos or rice or more often than not she makes herself a bean and tomato stew to have AND makes us something seperate that would be too fattening for her to have. She always makes us brownies and other treats when we visit and sits there eating natural yoghurt or something equally dismal while we enjoy ourselves. Everyday she makes fresh bread for my dad and doesn't eat any herself. She always has lovely cheeses in the house for my dad and she doesn't allow herself to eat that either. She never gets to partake in the celebrations food wise and yet she is overweight and she eats more healthily than anyone I know. She can't work out because she has a spinal condition (a genetic type of arthritis in the lower spinal column) that she exacerbated a few years back with a bad fall and is in a lot of pain (and shes nearly 60) she even tried yoga and wasn't able for it. Please take the time to consider that each person has a different story and none of us have any right to sit back and judge or deride anyone just because we hapeen to be lucky enough to be slim naturally, educated enough to make the right nutritional decisions or happen to enjoy/be healthy enough to exercise.

Your mum has a clear cut medical condition and no one has criticised anyone in such a situation.

PeakOutput wrote: »

no1 has said anything bad about people with legitimate medical conditions that i have read but i havnt read the entire thread. you are choosing to be offended over comments that dont apply either personally or generally to your mother

most fat people dont have medical conditions and are too lazy to change themselves. this is fine as long as they dont go on making excuses about it instead of being honest to themselves and everyone else that they are just too lazy to change

Thank you:)

khrystyna100 wrote: »

I'm offended by all comments that are harshly judging people they don't even know and insisting they are being greedy and/or lazy whether they apply to my mother or not.The point about my mum was simply to illustrate that you never know the whole story behind a situation unless that person is close to you. Its easy to sit back and say they're being lazy or whatever but you have no idea whats going on in their lives or in their heads that might be behind their weight problem.

I think there is more judgement of the health (or lack thereof) rather than the actual person themselves.

Dudess wrote: »

+1

I can't help but think if all fat people were suddenly slim tomorrow, those who are so cruel to them (and dress this up as concern for health, the taxpayer etc) would be gutted that a group for them to ridicule is gone... and would move on to some other group to bully - in order to feel good about themselves.[/QUOTE]

Other people being fatter than me does not make me feel better about myself.

quad_red wrote: »

What exactly do they owe you?

Why should anyone have to explain themselves to you?

"oh PeakOutPut, I'm so fat and it's all my own fault. Unlike yourself, who is balanced in all aspects of life, I am scum".

Live and let live. It's not healthy being obese. And society does need to put resources into ensuring kids learn to eat healthily, that people are made aware of the seriously detrimental costs that being overweight brings. But society can't make people skinny.

I think that's sad - but I don't feel superior to anyone else. Nor do I have the right to be disgusted etc.

Why does society suddenly need to educate people about food and put resources into this area? We all go to school and learn about the cause and effect of diseases there, at least I did. Its too too easy to blame the government or State for all the ills of the world. Each person has a responsibility to themselves to care for the body they were given. We all know stories of some 90 year old man who smoked 80 a day and drank for years who was as fit as fiddle and a super healthy lean 40 year old man who jogged every day who dropped dead of a heart attck. There are exceptions to every rule but such exceptions are few and far between.

Dudess

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Surely by the logic that obesity is a selfish 'lifestyle choice' this should extend to nearly all chronic diseases regardless of whether or not obesity is present?

In fairness, obesity is a (being simplistic about it) self imposed condition, unlike e.g. leukaemia. But I really don't believe those who moan about it being a drain on the taxpayer actually give a sh1t about the taxpayer, and are just using it as an excuse to bully.

That said, it is nice to hear of weight loss success stories in the cases of very overweight people, as it can only improve their lives.

Hugo Drax

PeakOutput wrote: »

no1 called anyone scum.



im glad you brought up kids as thats where i have the main problem with peoples behaviour. having a fat child is inexcusable and imo is child abuse. there is no reason for it besides utter laziness



i similarly have no time for people who give excuse after excuse about smoking or their behaviour while drunk. either do something about it or shut the **** up and accept the consequences thats all im sayin.

We were in the mountains last weekend, in the glorious sun, and we'd a chat how sad it was that so many people had never experienced the hills, the outdoors. They did only what they knew - pissed on saturday night, couch all day Sunday.



i have the right to be disgusted at the attitudes of these people(these very specific people im talking about not your mom with her bad knees or your uncle with thyroid cancer because they are not the majority)who are in the position they are due to personal choice(or bad parenting i am sympathetic if thats the case) they go on like they are part of a minority group and deserve special rights / protections in the same way as say homosexuals or ethnic minorities. legitimate medical conditions aside fat people should have no protection regular people dont in any situation (eg the situation i mentioned earlier were ryanair would charge you for two seats if you take up two seats, its perfectly fair unless you have a legitimate medical condition)

I don't think it's the amount children are fed now to be honest.

I stuffed myself with junk food from morning till night all through my childhood and was as skinny as a rake into my 20s. Because unlike the kids of today, I had no Xbox, no iPod or laptop etc. etc., I was out running around, cycling my BMX, climbing trees, being a normal 80s child.

Kids now are just not as active, they sit on their backsides far too much and their parents are far too precious about letting them go out and have a bit of a rough and tumble. If they get hurt, so what, that's a part of childhood and growing up, but parents now imho are busy trying to wrap their kids up in cotton wool.

PeakOutput

Hugo Drax wrote: »

I don't think it's the amount children are fed now to be honest.

I stuffed myself with junk food from morning till night all through my childhood and was as skinny as a rake into my 20s. Because unlike the kids of today, I had no Xbox, no iPod or laptop etc. etc., I was out running around, cycling my BMX, climbing trees, being a normal 80s child.

Kids now are just not as active, they sit on their backsides far too much and their parents are far too precious about letting them go out and have a bit of a rough and tumble. If they get hurt, so what, that's a part of childhood and growing up, but parents now imho are busy trying to wrap their kids up in cotton wool.

completely agree but i think it takes a certain amount of both laziness and poor diet to get to the levels of obesity we are at today and for kids thats entirley the parents fault

i wasnt fed a perfect diet growing up but i was fed at least one home cooked meal a day i was forced to eat breakfast and i was sent to school with a homemade sandwich fruit packet of crisps and a drink instead of been given money to buy what i like when i got there which would have been 5 packets of crisps a can of coke a few bars of chocolate and roy rover bar

now i probably could have gotten away with eating that crap for lunch as far as appearance goes cause i trained so much but if i wasnt encouraged to play basketball or any other sport i wanted to i would have been a fat mess

Sapsorrow

Dudess wrote: »

In fairness, obesity is a (being simplistic about it) self imposed condition, unlike e.g. leukaemia. But I really don't believe those who moan about it being a drain on the taxpayer actually give a sh1t about the taxpayer, and are just using it as an excuse to bully.

That said, it is nice to hear of weight loss success stories in the cases of very overweight people, as it can only improve their lives.

I was referring to chronic illnesses, those affected by lifestyle, environmental and dietary factors, as far as I know leukemia is primarily genetically determined but I'm open to being proven wrong on that one it may only be the case in childhood leukemia. My point was that cancer or osteoperosis by the same logic should also be viewed as self imposed conditions due to the large role dietary and lifestyle factors play in their etiology, an idea which I personally find abhorrent and cold beyond belief.

RobbieTheRobber

I like Cake!

Hugo Drax

PeakOutput wrote: »

completely agree but i think it takes a certain amount of both laziness and poor diet to get to the levels of obesity we are at today and for kids thats entirley the parents fault

i wasnt fed a perfect diet growing up but i was fed at least one home cooked meal a day i was forced to eat breakfast and i was sent to school with a homemade sandwich fruit packet of crisps and a drink instead of been given money to buy what i like when i got there which would have been 5 packets of crisps a can of coke a few bars of chocolate and roy rover bar

now i probably could have gotten away with eating that crap for lunch as far as appearance goes cause i trained so much but if i wasnt encouraged to play basketball or any other sport i wanted to i would have been a fat mess

True, it never fails to amaze me when I go into a Spar and I see long rows of kids buying their lunch. Everyone of them is buying sausage rolls and jambons and chicken baguettes.

Parents giving money to childen to go out and buy their lunch every day are just being lazy.

When I was a school boy i was given my bus fare both ways and some cheese sandwiches and sent off. If I didn't eat them, I didn't eat.

I've seen school kids at lunchtime going into chippers!