Why is being fat/obese socially acceptable?

AARRRGH

We should get rid of free healthcare for those who neglect their health, e.g. the obese, the smokers, the alcoholics, etc.

At the moment it is too easy to be a **** up and expect the tax payer to clean up after you.

landsleaving

quad_red wrote: »

I don't think anyone on here would defend obesity for a second. It's not a 'lifestyle' choice. It's a deviation from the healthy optimal.

*But*, speaking of overweight people as lacking 'decency', judging their personalities or their worth is crass, shallow and says allot about the person doing the judging.

Many of the most generous, decent people I know are overweight. Who give enormously to their families and society. And I would wager they give far more to society than the spiteful, smug, self satisfied people who are weighing into this thread.

The pathetic attempt to deflect your spite and disgust as a reaction to their lack of concern for *themselves* is as unconvincing as it instructive as to where ye are coming from.

Anyway, I've had enough of this thread. It's going around in circles now. I just hope everyone on here receives a bit less spite and intolerance to their imperfections.

All those fancy words, just to get that pun in.

Sir I admire you.

PeakOutput

dark crystal wrote: »

claiming superiority over another simply because of an outward appearance is on a very slippery slope morally.

again thats not what he said but whatever

RolandIRL

AARRRGH wrote: »

We should get rid of free healthcare for those who neglect their health, e.g. the obese, the smokers, the alcoholics, etc.

i don't think that's right. what if they want to quit? how are they supposed to stop if they don't have the healthcare system to back them up? they'll just keep continuing on.
and just because a person's obese, it doesn't mean they're neglecting their health. some diabetics are overweight. in a lot of cases, it's not their fault they've got diabetes.
that's the point of a healthcare system, to help people get better. no point taking it away from people who need it.

sink

AARRRGH wrote: »

We should get rid of free healthcare for those who neglect their health, e.g. the obese, the smokers, the alcoholics, etc.

At the moment it is too easy to be a **** up and expect the tax payer to clean up after you.

We should also take healthcare away from idiots who injure themselves by taking stupid risks such as partaking in extreme sports, or any sport that has a higher risk of injury. What about all those people who don't wash their hands regularly, they're and an increased risk of infection and disease and they put other people at risk too, they should be denied free healthcare. How difficult is it use soap and water? I'm not paying for their lack of hygiene! :mad: In fact I think it would be a good idea that before anyone receives state funded healthcare a full investigation into their activities and behaviours should take place to ensure that they did not recklessly put themselves in increased danger.

drkpower

AARRRGH wrote: »

We should get rid of free healthcare for those who neglect their health, e.g. the obese, the smokers, the alcoholics, etc.

Do you draw your line at 'the obese, the smokers & the alcoholics'?

What about those who have not eaten enough fibre for many years and end up with bowel cancer?

Or those who failed to put enough sunblock on, and end up with melanoma?

Or those who decided to eat some local (undercooked) delicacy abroad and end up with severe gastroenteritis?

Do these people also lose free healthcare?

Sapsorrow

If anyone shouldn't get free healthcare it's the b*stards that drive like nutcases at top speed around all the back roads if this country with no regard for the safety of themselve or other drivers, pedestrians or pets. I don't mind if people choose to damage their own health because I'm not a nazi, other human beings are allowed the make their own decisions as long as they don't endanger the rest of us. Anyone here giving out about obese people speed ever by any chance?

Adamisconfused

There should be nothing convenient about convenient food. I agree with the baying mobs so far. Increase VAT for crap foods and use it to subsidise fruit, wheat cakes and all that other poncy food to five cent an item. I fancy a Yorkie now and then, but not every day so feck it, charge a fiver for one and stop all those other friggers eating them every ten minutes. The same goes for loads of other unhealthy activities.

flynnlives

dark crystal wrote: »

Hang on....you think you're better simply because you're thinner???

The true measure of a person is how they treat others, not how they look on the outside.

You may feel you're better than someone because of how you look, but I can guarantee you're no better than them on the inside. You mention a lack of decency and respect and yet you display none of those attributes in your views towards others.

A certain Fascist leader had the same views about those he considered physically unappealling in Germany during the 1930's. It wasn't acceptable then and it's not acceptable now.

Being thinner does not make you better than anyone else. Shallowness and vanity should never be considered as a substitute for compassion and acceptance. Arrogance is a far uglier trait than obesity, in my opinion.

Godwins law - thread fail.

Dionysus

dark crystal wrote: »

A certain Fascist leader had the same views about those he considered physically unappealling in Germany during the 1930's. It wasn't acceptable then and it's not acceptable now.

Being thinner does not make you better than anyone else. Shallowness and vanity should never be considered as a substitute for compassion and acceptance. Arrogance is a far uglier trait than obesity, in my opinion.

Godwin's Law: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.".

drkpower

Is anyone else more irritated by those idiots who cite a 'law' created by some random US lawyer than those who make an irrelevenet mention of Hitler in a post?

Penny Dreadful

khrystyna100 wrote: »

If anyone shouldn't get free healthcare it's the b*stards that drive like nutcases at top speed around all the back roads if this country with no regard for the safety of themselve or other drivers, pedestrians or pets. I don't mind if people choose to damage their own health because I'm not a nazi, other human beings are allowed the make their own decisions as long as they don't endanger the rest of us. Anyone here giving out about obese people speed ever by any chance?

Maybe there shouldn't be free health care at all? I'm not saying I support that idea but perhaps some (properly run, accountable) system that is half way between the OTT health care system in the USA and the (supposedly) free for all system here would be better. I, and most other people I know, buy private health insurance anyway and spend a fortune on that and not for anything would I give that up.

Sapsorrow

drkpower wrote: »

Is anyone else more irritated by those idiots who cite a 'law' created by some random US lawyer than those who make an irrelevenet mention of Hitler in a post?

Yes although I don't think the reference was irrelevant at all in this particular case. I do think its facist to expect everyone else to hold the same values as you do and to think that everyone should go to the gym and eat well just because you think its important and that everyone else should agree with you or else they're sub-human. Such mind boggling arrogance on this thread. I've lost a lot of faith in humanity by reading it I have to say I didn't realise there were so many dickheads in this country.

hobochris

AARRRGH wrote: »

We should get rid of free healthcare for those who neglect their health, e.g. the obese, the smokers, the alcoholics, etc.

At the moment it is too easy to be a **** up and expect the tax payer to clean up after you.

Does that then mean that people who fall into these categories can pay less tax as they would not be provided the same service for their tax money?

brianthebard

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Maybe there shouldn't be free health care at all?

Its not free, there's this thing called taxes....

Anyways, being fat is awesome, I wish I was fatter, as it is I'm in this half way house situation, its like purgatory but with bellies. Moar Burgers!!!!:cool:

evolutionqy7

i cant understand why would people let themselves go obese in the first place...i grew a a belly flap over the winter and when i looked at it and felt disgusting at myself and started doing exercise and taking the bike instead of the bus to college instead of just eating and sitting...

AARRRGH

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

i cant understand why would people let themselves go obese in the first place...i grew a a belly flap over the winter and when i looked at it and felt disgusting at myself and started doing exercise and taking the bike instead of the bus to college instead of just eating and sitting...

There are loads of reasons, a big one being they gain more by being fat (lazing around/eating what they want, etc.) than they do by eating sensibly and exercising.

Also, obese people tend to have emotional problems. So something which you and I find easy (e.g. self control, self respect) is difficult or non-existant for them.

AARRRGH

drkpower wrote: »

Do you draw your line at 'the obese, the smokers & the alcoholics'?

What about those who have not eaten enough fibre for many years and end up with bowel cancer?

Or those who failed to put enough sunblock on, and end up with melanoma?

Or those who decided to eat some local (undercooked) delicacy abroad and end up with severe gastroenteritis?

Do these people also lose free healthcare?

There is a difference between a lifetime of conscious bad decision making (everyone knows being obese, smoking and drinking heavily are bad for you), and not understanding the importance of fiber, or being unlucky in a restaurant.

PS Please don't reply with anger like you did when I questioned the panic about swine flu. It's embarrassing, unnecessary, and we now know you were totally wrong.

tc2010

AARRRGH wrote: »

There are loads of reasons, a big one being they gain more by being fat (lazing around/eating what they want, etc.) than they do by eating sensibly and exercising.

Also, obese people tend to have emotional problems. So something which you and I find easy (e.g. self control, self respect) is difficult or non-existant for them.

People keep saying that but what comes first for most of these people? obesity or depression

sometimes in life you have to do things that you dont want. life isnt easy

AARRRGH

tc2010 wrote: »

People keep saying that but what comes first for most of these people? obesity or depression

sometimes in life you have to do things that you dont want. life isnt easy

I agree life isn't easy (life is totally unfair and cruel), and I agree with your point about depression/obesity, but there is no excuse for being obese. A bit overweight, no problem. A bit of comfort eating, no problem. But obese? No way, that takes years of utter disrespect for your body.

drkpower

AARRRGH wrote: »

There is a difference between a lifetime of conscious bad decision making (everyone knows being obese, smoking and drinking heavily are bad for you), and not understanding the importance of fiber, or being unlucky in a restaurant..

The importance of a high fibre diet has been known for many many years now.
The dangers of eating undercooked food in foreign places has been known for many many years now.
The dangers of excessive sunshine have been known for many many years now.

Perhaps not to you; but ignorance of known facts is no excuse. In this area, or any other.

So again, why do the smokers, alcoholics and the obese take the hit when those who do other well known unhealthy things get off scott-free?

AARRRGH wrote: »

PS Please don't reply with anger like you did when I questioned the panic about swine flu. It's embarrassing, unnecessary, and we now know you were totally wrong. ..

Wow; that debate (months ago now surely...?) must have affected you deeply if you recognised me immediately - I'd forgotten who you were.

AARRRGH

drkpower wrote: »

The importance of a high fibre diet has been known for many many years now.
The dangers of eating undercooked food in foreign places has been known for many many years now.
The dangers of excessive sunshine have been known for many many years now.

Perhaps not to you; but ignorance of known facts is no excuse. In this area, or any other.

So again, why do the smokers, alcoholics and the obese take the hit when those who do other well known careless/nhealthy things get off scott-free?

Oh man, here we go again.

It is known by absolutely everyone that smoking causes cancer.
It is known by absolutely everyone that heavy drinking obliterates your liver.
It is known by absolutely everyone that being obese is bad for your heart/etc.

If you smoke heavily, drink heavily, or stay obese, you will most likely develop health problems.

The same is not true for low fiber diets or eating food in foreign restaurants.

Listen, I know from talking to you in the past that you won't understand this and will just get increasingly angry, so let's just agree to disagree. I have no interest in arguing with some stranger on the internet.

Btw, I am a very healthy person who eats well and looks after himself, so I do know the importance of fiber, eating properly prepared food, and avoiding excessive sun. There was no need to suggest I am unaware of these things. I appreciate you are pissed off and want to fight, but isn't fighting on the internet a waste of time?

EDIT: Regarding the swine flu thing, I remember you because I remember showing the thread to some of the people I work with and we all agreed your posts were bizarre. But it's grand, honestly, I don't want to enter your world so let's agree to disagree.

sink

AARRRGH wrote: »

Oh man, here we go again.

It is known by absolutely everyone that smoking causes cancer.
It is known by absolutely everyone that heavy drinking obliterates your liver.
It is known by absolutely everyone that being obese is bad for your heart/etc.

If you smoke heavily, drink heavily, or stay obese, you will most likely develop health problems.

The same is not true for low fiber diets or eating food in foreign restaurants.

Listen, I know from talking to you in the past that you won't understand this and will just get increasingly angry, so let's just agree to disagree. I have no interest in arguing with some stranger on the internet.

EDIT: Regarding the swine flu thing, I remember you because I remember showing the thread to some of the people I work with and we all agreed your posts were bizarre.

It is known by absolutely everybody that not washing your hands spreads infection and disease!

Should we stop providing state healthcare to people who don't wash their hands?

drkpower

AARRRGH wrote: »

It is known by absolutely everyone that smoking causes cancer.
It is known by absolutely everyone that heavy drinking obliterates your liver.
It is known by absolutely everyone that being obese is bad for your heart/etc.

If you smoke heavily, drink heavily, or stay obese, you will most likely develop health problems.

It is known by absolutely everyone that eating undercooked food in foreign places causes gastroenteritis.
It is known by absolutely everyone that excessive sunshine can cause cancer.
It is known by almost everyone that a high fibre diet is bad for you/causes cancer.

If you eat a low fibre diet, get excessive sun or eat undercooked food in foreign places, you will most likely develop health problems.

Is there a point anywhere in your post?

AARRRGH wrote: »

EDIT: Regarding the swine flu thing, I remember you because I remember showing the thread to some of the people I work with

Hohoho! That affected you pretty bad..... I'll go easy on you next time.....!!

AARRRGH

sink wrote: »

It is known by absolutely everybody that not washing your hands spreads infection and disease!

Should we stop providing state healthcare to people who don't wash their hands?

drkpower wrote: »

It is known by absolutely everyone that eating undercooked food in foreign places causes gastroenteritis.
It is known by absolutely everyone that excessive sunshine can cause cancer.
It is known by almost everyone that a high fibre diet is bad for you/causes cancer.

If you eat a low fibre diet, get excessive sun or eat undercooked food in foreign places, you will most likely develop health problems.

Is there a point anywhere in your post?

I can see you guys don't understand the concept of perspective.

Do you really think the numbers for these two statements will be similar?

Statement 1: the number of people in hospital due to smoking, alcohol and obesity. (hint: these involve decades of self abuse, take up an excessive amount of hospital beds, and are very expensive to treat).

Statement 2: the number of people in hospital due to not washing your hands properly, having a low fiber diet, eating in foreign restaurants and getting too much sun.

If you can't instantly recognise the difference between both statements, please, let's agree to disagree.

drkpower

AARRRGH wrote: »

I can see you guys don't understand the concept of perspective.

How is the number of people relevent to whether a person should lose a right to free healthcare?

And why have you shifted your position? Earlier, it was because 'absolutely everybody' knows how bad smoking/obesity is; when we point out that everyone knows how bad excess sun is, you change your argument.... getting shaky again...!!

AARRRGH

drkpower wrote: »

How is the number of people relevent to whether a person should lose a right to free healthcare?

Because Ireland cannot afford it?

Because the obese/smokers/alcoholics are clogging up an already stretched healthcare system?

Because "innocent" people cannot get hospital beds because they are already taken by people who spent their life making bad decisions?

Because we should focus on those who deserve it the most? (Yes, I think someone who spent their life making bad decisions should not be treated equally to someone who got unlucky and got cancer/whatever).

Because I'm a big believer in personal responsibility and think it is wrong to expect other people to clean up your mess?

Etc.

AARRRGH

drkpower wrote: »

And why have you shifted your position? Earlier, it was because 'absolutely everybody' knows how bad smoking/obesity is; when we point out that everyone knows how bad excess sun is, you change your argument.... getting shaky again...!!

I haven't changed my position.

I think we should consider dropping free healthcare for those who have spent their lives making bad decisions, e.g. smoking, drinking heavily, being obese.

Stop trying to fight. If you are unhappy it's not my fault.

sink

AARRRGH wrote: »

Statement 2: the number of people in hospital due to not washing your hands properly,

Quiet a lot actually, the majority of surface transmitted viral and bacterial infections could be prevented if people washed their hands. That includes all colds and flu viruses, salmonella, e-coli and MRSA. The lists is near endless.

drkpower

AARRRGH wrote: »

1. Because Ireland cannot afford it?

2. Because the obese/smokers/alcoholics are clogging up an already stretched healthcare system?

3. Because "innocent" people cannot get hospital beds because they are already taken by people who spent their life making bad decisions?

4. Because we should focus on those who deserve it the most? (Yes, I think someone who spent their life making bad decisions should not be treated equally to someone who got unlucky and got cancer/whatever).

5. Because I'm a big believer in personal responsibility and think it is wrong to expect other people to clean up your mess?

Etc.

1. Can we afford to treat those with melanoma, bowel cancer, gastroenteritis, Road Traffic Accidents ....etc etc.... or anything caused by engaging in bad decisions?
2. How does that differ in respect of hospital's clogged up by people involved in RTAs, gastroenteritis, bowel cancer, cervical cancer etc....
3. How does that differ in respect of hospital beds taken by people with melanoma etc?
4. Why is it 'unlucky' to get bowel cancer from years of a low fibre diet, but not unlucky to get cirrhosis from excess alcohol?
5. How does that differ in respect of personal responsibility of people involved in RTAs, gastroenteritis, bowel cancer, cervical cancer etc....

Is there a point anywhere in your post?