Why is being fat/obese socially acceptable?

candlelover

candlelover wrote: »

first of all the 'brats' these days are down to parents who buy their children everything they want, who never say no, and think their child is the most perfect human being on the planet.

just because i am allowing my daughter to choose what foods she eats outside of the dinner i cook, doesn't mean she will be a spoiled brat, and i find it helps my point you class food as "everything they want" you make such a huge deal out of eating healthy foods that it obviously has ben turned into a food issue with yourself. thus proving my point, believe me if she starts demanding toys or thinks she can just do what she wants all the time she will be pulled into check, my point is i will allow her have a say in what she eats and im not going to push healthy eating on her or create this fear that if you eat junk you will be fat! truth is if your parents are fat you will probally be fat.

Are you for real?

Sapsorrow

Aparrantly having a personal interest in nutrition, health, fitness and generally preserving ones long term health and happiness and generally appreciating the good health you have that some others don't constitutes having 'issues' and is a lot less desirable than your child being set up for years of chronic illness and suffering in later life. Interesting logic.

Kimono-Girl

khrystyna100 wrote: »

If your kid starts getting fat from your letting them decide what they eat, will you change your mind and start telling htem no then? Would it be the case that be fat is more important (and so warrents an intervention) compared to a debilitating, painful and life-shortening array of diseases in later life?

you actually remind me of my OH's mum, going from normal to extreme in 60 seconds,

about 2 years ago my OH's brother ended up collapsing from a stomach ulcer, he ended up in hospital (luckily he's fine now) either way for weeks after his mum was going around telling everyone who would listen that it was caused by hot chicken rolls from centra! she had already had her children boycotting mc donalds from a young age, because they should have 'proper' food,


the truth,the chicken roll had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT he had the ulcer because he always HAD stomach problems, despite his healthy eating...but she never mentioned that part

my OH used constantly be ill he had health issues after health issues he had his first mcdonalds when he met me he also stared eating more things like unhealthy foods, fry's, eggs, fizzy drinks...etc and you know what he's as healthy as me! his family still eat 'healthy' (home grown veg and the like) and everytime we go down there there's something wrong with one of them,

people will always get sick food or no food,and if believing food can help you stay healthy helps you sleep then off you go! as long as you don't over indulge in both healthy foods and junk you'll be just fine! but don't go banning my junk food just because some obese people can't handle it! cause if we do maybe we should consider banning healthy foods to stop people getting too skinny!

Kimono-Girl

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Are you for real?

nope im for imaginary!

Sapsorrow

candlelover wrote: »

you actually remind me of my OH's mum, going from normal to extreme in 60 seconds,

about 2 years ago my OH's brother ended up collapsing from a stomach ulcer, he ended up in hospital (luckily he's fine now) either way for weeks after his mum was going around telling everyone who would listen that it was caused by hot chicken rolls from centra! she had already had her children boycotting mc donalds from a young age, because they should have 'proper' food,


the truth,the chicken roll had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT he had the ulcer because he always HAD stomach problems, despite his healthy eating...but she never mentioned that part

my OH used constantly be ill he had health issues after health issues he had his first mcdonalds when he met me he also stared eating more things like unhealthy foods, fry's, eggs, fizzy drinks...etc and you know what he's as healthy as me! his family still eat 'healthy' (home grown veg and the like) and everytime we go down there there's something wrong with one of them,

people will always get sick food or no food,and if believing food can help you stay healthy helps you sleep then off you go! as long as you don't over indulge in both healthy foods and junk you'll be just fine! but don't go banning my junk food just because some obese people can't handle it! cause if we do maybe we should consider banning healthy foods to stop people getting too skinny!

Wow way to skirt around my question there with a totally irrellevant anecdote. So if your kid gets fat what would you do then? You still haven't addressed those links you posted, do you accept that they bore no relevance to your arguement whatsoever then?

Kimono-Girl

khrystyna100 wrote: »

fitness and generally preserving ones long term health and happiness and generally appreciating the good health you have

hey do not get me wrong here im pro-junk food, but i still excercise, i walk alot as does my 10 month old!

even got her her first trike! im pro not being a couch potato! im just also pro eating potatoes fried!

oh and i very much appreciate the good health i have, as does my mother and my grandmother and all my family and friends who eat the same way and havent collapsed yet!:D

Sapsorrow

candlelover wrote: »

oh and i very much appreciate the good health i have, as does my mother and my grandmother and all my family and friends who eat the same way and havent collapsed yet!:D

Someone should tell all those nobel laureates, geneticists, biologists, epidemiologists, cardiologists, endocrinologists, surgeons etc they've been wrong all along, seems you have it all sussed!

Kimono-Girl

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Someone should tell all those nobel laureates, geneticists, biologists, epidemiologists, cardiologists, endocrinologists, surgeons etc they've been wrong all along, seems you have it all sussed!

i think we're gone off topic somewhat you said

khrystyna100 wrote: »

I agree with what other posters have said though we need higher taxes on the food industry not the consumers to give them an incentive to branch into making healthier products.

im making the point that you cannot blame obesity on certain types of food! and the government cannot put a tax on Junk food just because a few people cannot handle it, if thats the case we'd have a higher tax on television sets to stop people buying those, or add higher taxes to scratch cards to stop gamblers, if someone is obese they will eat 100 carrots if mc donalds isnt available, they will still eat 100 homemade lasagnas if they want. they need professional help not blanket goverment regulation!

brianthebard

candlelover wrote: »

i think we're gone off topic somewhat

im making the point that you cannot blame obesity on certain types of food!

http://www.straferight.com/photopost/data/500/medium/double-facepalm.jpg

Sapsorrow

candlelover wrote: »

iif thats the case we'd have a high tax on television sets to stop people buying those, or add high taxes to scratch cards to stop gamblers,

Ehm these things ARE taxed! Jesus where exactly do you live? It must be some health food, skinny person, low tax utopia!

Btw its not just a 'few' people who are obese;

"Obesity , defined as a body mass index of 30 or greater, is an epidemic in the United States and other industrialized nations, and it is rapidly becoming one in developing nations. As countries transition to westernized lifestyles, obesity tends to increase. Obesity rates vary from as little as 2 percent in some Asian countries to as much as 75 percent in some Pacific nations. There are more than 300 million obese persons in the world, and more than 750 million overweight persons. In the United States, 34 percent of adults are over-weight and 30.5 percent are obese. Between 1980 and 2000, the percentage of overweight children ages six to eleven doubled, from 7 percent to 15 percent, and the percentage of overweight adolescents ages twelve to nineteen tripled, from 5 percent to 16 percent (Ogden, et al.). In Europe, the thinnest country is Sweden, with about 10 percent obesity, while the fattest is Lithuania, with about 79 percent obesity. The sad fact is the prevalence of obesity appears to be increasing in all countries. "

I wish you'd admit those links were bullsh*t and that you didn't bother reading them before you posted them, it would give me some closure.

RolandIRL

if you think diet doesn't have anything to do with illness, i've read this in my history book from Leaving Cert, that the cancer figures in Japan and China are waaaay lower than the USA and other western countries. It even quoted figures for Hiroshima and Nagasaki (places where nuclear bombs went off in WW2) and they were lower than the US.

I can't quote figures (i can't find the book) but i think the US cancer figures were almost 20 times higher than in Asia.

Breast Cancer figures Comparison

now if Asians are healthier eating sushi, and other healthier foods (better than grease-laden chips anyway), should we westerns not take the hint?

Kimono-Girl

i just wanted to say that just because some people get fat if they eat too much junk food, doesnt mean that everyone does or will,
we should be free to eat as we want just as we are free to smoke and drink as much we want providing we don't harm others.

the links i posted were stating that the price of sugar was being inflated by the EU so less sugar was being added to products as a result!

zenno

theres no point in people getting angry about this topic...at the end of the day it all boils down to good parenting simple as that. I am not going to make this sound forcefull but the parents are the problem and i will say this "BIGTIME".

the amount of food if you calculated it per/day to one child (not taking into account the rubbish they eat out doors from shops "sweets chocolates and what have you" they would be taking on too much. and then you have mother dear saying HEY tommy sit the f*ck down and eat this spaghetti bolognaise as well as desert ah well what do you expect. have another pork pie while your at it let's not waste it, if you don't eat it it will be thrown out in the bin ? oh my god we better eat the thing no point in wasting food. and on the story goes. man i feel fat just talking about it. join zenno's reach forum from here as follows.... don't feed your kids crap and don't feed them too much ? they are not cattle ok. have some respect for your little kiddios. "peace".

Sapsorrow

candlelover wrote: »

the links i posted were stating that the price of sugar was being inflated by the EU so less sugar was being added to products as a result!

No thats not what they were saying, one of them was about neotame passing safety assesment by EFSA ffs. You gave the impression that that sugar report had something to do with food policy and it didn't and there was no indication given in that report that it had any knock on effect on the amount of sugar added to foods, authors of reports like that don't like people misrepresenting their work you know.

PeakOutput

candlelover wrote: »

i just wanted to say that just because some people get fat if they eat too much junk food, doesnt mean that everyone does or will,
we should be free to eat as we want just as we are free to smoke and drink as much we want providing we don't harm others.

the links i posted were stating that the price of sugar was being inflated by the EU so less sugar was being added to products as a result!

sugar is the least of our worries

Kimono-Girl

khrystyna100 wrote: »

You do realise there's no regulation or legislation saying food producers have to reduce sugar, saturated fat etc in their products? They are providing these products as a result of changing consumer demand to make more money not because they're being told they have to. The only obligation they have is to provide clear nutritional information and proper labels.

you said it was consumer demand that sugar free products are being provided i was making the arguement that the EU has increased the price of sugar so logically its cheaper for companies to use less sugar here is the link i edited in to back up the sugar price comment:




in my opinion we are being told this suger free product is for our benefit when in my opinion it is a raw materials cost issue!

RolandIRL

is sugar not more damaging to teeth than gaining weight? i'd have though that fatty foods would make you gain weight along with not excercising.

Sapsorrow

candlelover wrote: »

you said it was consumer demand that sugar free products are being provided i was making the arguement that the EU has increased the price of sugar so logically its cheaper for companies to use less sugar here is the link i edited in to back up the sugar price comment:

http://www.dsm.com/en_US/html/sustainability/key_messages_eu_sugar_regulation.htm


in my opinion we are being told this suger free product is for our benefit when in my opinion it is a raw materials cost issue!

Ya I saw that one too, Ah ok so you were making an ASSUMPTION based on that report. So what was the point of the neotame exactly? Neither of those reports supported your claim in any way though. Anyway thats enough off topicness. You're entitled to your opinion but anyone who knows anything about food marketing would agree that consumer demand for healthier products isn't the primary driving force for diversification of the food industry, to expand its product range so it can target all sub groups of the consuer market and so increase its market share. Just because an ingredient becomes more expensive doesn't mean that the sensible solution is to minimise the amount used, corners can be cut in many ways in the food industry.

Sapsorrow

whiteman19 wrote: »

is sugar not more damaging to teeth than gaining weight? i'd have though that fatty foods would make you gain weight along with not excercising.

Nope thats way off the mark. Sugar has profound metabolic effects promoting insulin resistance and weight gain. Fat doesn't make you fat unless it has sugar there to tell your body to store it in your fat cells, thats why people on Atkins and other low carbs diets that can be very high in calories and total fats can lose weight so efficiently even without exercise.

Wibbs

PeakOutput wrote: »

sugar is the least of our worries

IMHO sugars(corn syrup, fructose etc) are our biggest worry. I'd even go so far as to say it causes as much illness, both low level and obvious as tobacco. We're simple not designed to eat that much sugar. Its very rare in the wild in the concentrations(and type) we find in the western diet. You would have to eat a helluva lot of fruit to take in the same amount of sugar you'll get in an average sized cup of coke in a fast food place. Add in the sugars added to the meal and its a huge amount. And fruit in the wild is seasonal.

RolandIRL

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Nope thats way off the mark. Sugar has profound metabolic effects promoting insulin resistance and weight gain. Fat doesn't make you fat unless it has sugar there to tell your body to store it in your fat cells, thats why people on Atkins and other low carbs diets that can be very high in calories and total fats can lose weight so efficiently even without exercise.

wow, i'm in awe of your knowledge :eek:
i'd have thought sugar didn't have anything to do with weight. just shows how the public misconceptions about weight :rolleyes:. what about salt? does that have much effect on weight?

OutlawPete

whiteman19 wrote: »

is sugar not more damaging to teeth than gaining weight? i'd have though that fatty foods would make you gain weight along with not excercising.

The biggest enemies of someone wishing to lose weight are starch based carbs such as bread, pizza, rice, pasta, potatoes etc.

Of course, chocolate, fizzy drinks etc are also high calorie.

People pay to much attention to fat.

Too much mayonaise, oil based salad dressing are calorific but other than that, some fat is good for the body.

The 'fear of fat' started in the 80's when they started making everything fat free and filling foods with all manner of junk to compensate.

You could eat a 'fat free diet and still put on weight.

Examaple, few pints of Fanta or Coke and eat Toast with Jam all day. Pasta with tinned tomatoes.

All Fat free, but you'll put on a ton of weight if you eat like that.

The body stores excess calories as fat anyway, you don't have to eat it to store it.

Best diet for weight loss:

Lots of Non Starchy Vegetables, Salads, Fruits (don't over do the bananas - too starchy), some quality protein, fish, lamb, chicken etc.

Once you don't overdo the oil based calories (Nuts, Salad Dressings etc) when eating like this, you really can't go wrong.

Sapsorrow

whiteman19 wrote: »

wow, i'm in awe of your knowledge :eek:
i'd have thought sugar didn't have anything to do with weight. just shows how the public misconceptions about weight :rolleyes:. what about salt? does that have much effect on weight?

I don't think thats meant to be sarcastic is it?

Salt only has an effect in terms of water retention not actually fat cell expansion.

If your interested this is a good lecture I posted earlier thats goes into what WIbbs just mentioned: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Gary Taubes is an author that writes on this stuff a lot thats worth looking into. I take him with a pinch of salt though he can be a bit extreme too.

Wibbs

Look at skulls of our caveman ancestors. No dental caries. Stronger bones too. Much higher bone densities going on Dentistry 20,000 ago would be a crap career choice. Look closer to home. Pets. Dogs and cats more and more require vet dentistry, because they've added more sugar and carbs to their diet.

Salt isnt healthy or at least too much salt, but the Japanese diet is high in salt yet they live longer, so....

Fats? we've evolved to eat animal fats and protein so the atkins success should hardly be a shock. The inuit consume a lot of animal fats yet dont show heart disease etc until they go onto a more modern diet.

You wanna lose wieght? Avoid all added sugar, replace with good quality animal fats and good veg fats(olive oil)

Sapsorrow

Wibbs wrote: »

IMHO sugars(corn syrup, fructose etc) are our biggest worry.

Big time learning about the role of fructose in hyperlipidemia, dyslipidemia and heart disease has been the most profound nutritional insight I've ever had!

RolandIRL

my daily diet mainly consists of wheetabix for breakfast, ham sandwiches for lunch, dinner: spuds and grilled chicken nuggets,waffles, sausages (sometimes), and sometimes beans/spaghetti. 1/2 cups of tea with 2 spoons of sugar/day, and maybe a bar of milka per week.

would that be a good diet? i hardly ever put on weight, and i walk to college every day is about the height of exercise i do along with helping on the farm when i go home.

EDIT: kyrstyna100, no i'm not being sarcastic. i admire any person who rights my wrongs

EDIT 2: candlelover must have thought i was being sarcastic, s(he) thanked but then removed it. realised i really am in awe of your knowledge

Sapsorrow

Good intro into the fat thing;

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big-fat-lie.html?pagewanted=1

Sapsorrow

whiteman19 wrote: »

my daily diet mainly consists of wheetabix for breakfast, ham sandwiches for lunch, dinner: spuds and grilled chicken nuggets,waffles, sausages (sometimes), and sometimes beans/spaghetti. 1/2 cups of tea with 2 spoons of sugar/day, and maybe a bar of milka per week.

would that be a good diet? i hardly ever put on weight, and i walk to college every day is about the height of exercise i do along with helping on the farm when i go home.

EDIT: kyrstyna100, no i'm not being sarcastic. i admire any person who rights my wrongs

Honestly it could be better, but you're young (I assume being in college) and so can get away with eating a worse diet and not getting overweight but that may change in tie. If you are interested in nutrition I suggest you check out the nutrition forum ,the crowd in there have been a continuing source of inspiration and insight to me over the last year or two are are all happy to help anyone with their diet or queries.

Ok cool, I think candlelover assumed you were for a minute there!

homerjay2005

being fat isnt really socially acceptable as the title suggests. they are looked at differently,you act around them differently, they dont command the same level of respect really. it maybe narrow minded,but sadly that is the way it is

Sapsorrow

segaBOY wrote: »

P.S. Lidl in togher do full sugar flumps AFAIK.

:D:D What a brilliant sign off to such a well informed and intelligently written post!