The Sporting Fingal Model

djpbarry

I’m sure I’m not the only person to notice the media love-fest for what’s going on over in Santry at the moment – it was brought to my attention once more last night on MNS when Liam Buckley appeared on the sofa, further promoting Ireland’s latest footballing franchise. However, as I’m sure is common knowledge by now, Gerry Gannon, one of the chief backers of this enterprise, will be answerable to NAMA for the foreseeable future. Or to put it another way, a guy whose business practices over the last number of years could not possibly be described as sustainable is bankrolling a club that is being held up as the ‘sustainable, community-based model’ that all clubs should be following.

So, am I missing something here? Without Gannon, the whole thing falls apart, right? Wrong? Perhaps someone involved with the club could shed a little more light on this for me, because I’m finding it all quite baffling.

amacachi

When the FAI are in any way involved nothing baffles me.

Mitch Connor

can you provide more info on the Nama stuff - not everyone who has had loans transfered to NAMA is actually in a problem position. A number of good loans were transfered with the bad, so loans that are being paid off as agreed are also with NAMA.

So, simply having loans with NAMA is not an issue, the state of the loan (with NAMA or not) is the issue. Is this Gannon bloke actually in a bad position with regards to the loans?

Hard Worker

Sporting Fingal should never be described as a "community based model". The club is being financed mainly by Gerry Gannon, one of the Anglo golden circle. Put simply, would the club survive without him? Definitely not in its' current format, with a full time professional squad. Bearing in mind that Fingal County Council will not be putting any finances into the operation, it will be left to the community to support the running of the club. I think only then could we see if Sporting Fingal has a future.
I think it will be touch and go for them without Gannon. Spectator numbers have gone up but they would need to keep their associate sponsors on board also.

Daemos

No boobs

Thread disappoints

stovelid

Underneath all the drive to bed themselves into the community, it appears to be the same model as many, many times before: full-time squad with wages that cannot be supported by normally generated revenue. The same kind of model that goes tits-up when the main benefactor steps out. I also don't like another big-full-time-wage player arriving on the scene when things are scaling down a bit. Although I confess I don't know the whole in-and-outs of the setup, I would also be suspicious of any benefactor relationship between a supposedly local authority club and property developers.

That's my main reason for being doubtful, and while I'm happy to see new supporters on here who want to get behind their local team, I can understand the annoyance of people who support other North Dublin clubs when the local authority chooses to start a new club from scratch rather than tying in with existing clubs with long traditional histories. Or Bohs.:pac:

Roaster

Hey I thought Rovers were the "Model Club" :rolleyes:

stovelid

Roaster wrote: »

Hey I thought Rovers were the "Model Club" :rolleyes:

That's another model.

He means the Fingal club model that's the same as yours: daft wage bill, minuscule support, manager who is deep-down Rovers and financial chickens soon coming home to roost.

Gavin "shels"

I wouldn't even call it a model, it's a shambles. How the government haven't started to pull Gerry Gannon up is a joke, about to transfer a few million over to NAMA and not to mention being one of the famous Golden Circle.

Aside from Gannon, they're in bed with Fingal CC, the council pay them to allow them to keep files in there offices, some crazy amount of money.

In all fairness but since our demise we should be some what a model club (granted we're about to be screwed without Tolka), but last season we were one of very few clubs to make a profit in the whole League. We haven't run away from any debts and once we're out of Tolka every penny of them will be paid off. This season we've cut our budget by around €2,500 a week iirc.

Fr Tod Umptious

I think they are the Irish equivenlent of Gretna

No real supporter base, bankrolled by one person., crazy wages, rockets up the charts

I know nothing about this Mr Gannon but I prsuem as soon as his cash dries up they are gone, as are the supporters

OhNoYouDidn't

There are two different debates happening here.

Firstly there is the Fingal first team and what is probably the second highest wage bill in the league and its sustainability. All this NAMA and Anglo talk is irrelevant, the issue is 500 fans cannot pay €40,000+ a week in wages. We are all agreed on that and we can close that narrative.

Secondly, there is the actual topic in hand, which is Fingal's community based approach, which to be fair, cannot be disputed. They are embedded in the local community, their facility in Lusk will be open to all clubs in the area and they are the only LoI club currently involved in disability football.

The fantastic work they are doing in the rest of their structures shouldn't be ignored in any tit for tat about the wagebill their first team commands.

OhNoYouDidn't

stovelid wrote: »

That's another model.

He means the Fingal club model that's the same as yours: daft wage bill, minuscule support, manager who is deep-down Rovers and financial chickens soon coming home to roost.

But they are genuinely trying to get a community club going, as are Rovers. For all their faults, they do deserve credit on that front.

BOHtox

On a slightly different note I don't think the FAI should in control of the league. I feel a football league association ,with the league at heart, is the only way forward for the league

stovelid

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But they are genuinely trying to get a community club going, as are Rovers. For all their faults, they do deserve credit on that front.

Not knocking that side of it at all, like I said. All that good effort will be for nothing if they go bust in a few years time though.

_blank_

BOHtox wrote: »

On a slightly different note I don't think the FAI should in control of the league. I feel a football league association ,with the league at heart, is the only way forward for the league

Because that worked out just dandy in the past.

Doesn't matter who runs the LoI, it's a shambles either way.

djpbarry

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Is this Gannon bloke actually in a bad position with regards to the loans?

My understanding is that he has loans in excess of €1 billion, large swathes of undeveloped or semi-developed land and he has had problems funding his share of the K Club acquisition. There was a short article on his association with Fingal in The Times recently.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think they are the Irish equivenlent of Gretna

To be fair, Gretna was a pre-existing club with a small fan base. In fact, a new ‘Gretna’ was established in 2008 by the fans and is currently playing in the East Scotland Football League.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Firstly there is the Fingal first team and what is probably the second highest wage bill in the league and its sustainability. All this NAMA and Anglo talk is irrelevant...

The reason I referred to NAMA and such is because apparently unsustainable business practices are being used to fund an apparently sustainable club. But I suppose, yes, it doesn’t really matter where the funding is coming from, the fact is the financial structure of the club is totally skewed.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Secondly, there is the actual topic in hand, which is Fingal's community based approach, which to be fair, cannot be disputed.

How many LOI clubs do not have a ‘community-based approach’?

OhNoYouDidn't

djpbarry wrote: »

How many LOI clubs do not have a ‘community-based approach’?

Other than Rovers and Fingal and to a lesser extent Derry, I would say none of them.

whatawaster

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Other than Rovers and Fingal and to a lesser extent Derry, I would say none of them.

Drogheda?

OhNoYouDidn't

whatawaster wrote: »

Drogheda?

In what way?

whatawaster

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

In what way?

http://claretandblueclub.com/candb/index.html

Transfer of ownership hasn't been finalised yet, but there is a commitment from the board as far as i know

Spiritoftheseventies

What i heard is Gannon transferred some of his properties into his wife's name so NAMA couldnt get their hands on it. But not exactly sure how Nama ties in with this. Sporting Fingal does a lot of good work with the schoolboy clubs and really think that needs to be recognised.

OhNoYouDidn't

whatawaster wrote: »

http://claretandblueclub.com/candb/index.html

Transfer of ownership hasn't been finalised yet, but there is a commitment from the board as far as i know

Thats nothing whatsoever to do with what we are talking about here.

stovelid

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Sporting Fingal does a lot of good work with the schoolboy clubs and really think that needs to be recognised.

Of course, a football club having a decent schoolboy setup is completely altruistic innit.

dreamers75

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Other than Rovers and Fingal and to a lesser extent Derry, I would say none of them.

http://stpatsfc.com/community_news.php


yup just rovers and fingal do it. You can download the monthly newsletter too if its not delivered to your house.

djpbarry

It seems Mr. Gannon is reviewing his involvement with Fingal:

SPORTING FINGAL may need to cash in on captain Shaun Williams after completing a review of their financial position.

The north county Dublin outfit have confirmed that chief backer Gerry Gannon is reconsidering his involvement in the club three years into a planned five-year term.

Gannon was one of the first 10 property developers to have their loans transferred into NAMA and the state agency has advised those on its books to withdraw from all non-key sponsorships.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/fingal-likely-to-cash-in-on-williams-after-sponsor-blow-2405011.html

What now for Sporting? Their average attendance doesn't actually look all that bad (on paper) relative to clubs at the lower end of the Premier Division, but how many punters are actually paying in?

stovelid

Think it will end in tears.

Even within the envisaged 5-year plan, the club are clearly not going to generate enough income to cover the current squad. Without getting bogged down in the internecine fights about Fingal, it's clearly going to take longer to generate a LOI club that can compete at the highest level which is a shame for the community based aspect of it and the supporters they've picked up. It makes you wonder why the backers and local authorities couldn't have tried to do the same thing with an established Northside club. If you got Bohs or Shels playing out of a decent municipal ground with local authority backing albeit with a sensible financial model, it could really boost crowds and interest.

dreamers75

They have 9 players under contract all have been hawked around LOI clubs. Theres a shopping list of them somewhere.

Clarkey, shaun williams, darren quigley, ronan finn, conan byrne, kevin dawson, ger o'brien, shaun maher and shane mcfaul is the 9

From what i can see they looking to have no players under contract for next season, assume they will look to youth and play their A team in PL next season. There would be riots of Fingal CC paid anything towards wages.

Rumours of us getting into Europe on a tecnicality. Havent sang that song in a while

Pineapple stu

The players mentioned WILL be playing with Sporting next season . The out of contract players will be sorted out soon one way or the other like what is usually done at the end of season.
Fingal WILL be playing in europe next season so dont get your hopes up
Put your money on Fingal to finish in the top 3 next year and im confident that they might even win it League and cup double next year .

dreamers75

Pineapple stu wrote: »

The players mentioned WILL be playing with Sporting next season . The out of contract players will be sorted out soon one way or the other like what is usually done at the end of season.
Fingal WILL be playing in europe next season so dont get your hopes up
Put your money on Fingal to finish in the top 3 next year and im confident that they might even win it League and cup double next year .

Hope your taking the piss and you do realise the predicament your in.

Pineapple stu

djpbarry wrote: »

It seems Mr. Gannon is reviewing his involvement with Fingal:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/fingal-likely-to-cash-in-on-williams-after-sponsor-blow-2405011.html

What now for Sporting? Their average attendance doesn't actually look all that bad (on paper) relative to clubs at the lower end of the Premier Division, but how many punters are actually paying in?[/QUOTE]

Everyone bar any match day sponsers. To ask how many punters are actually paying in is just plain silly.

Pineapple stu

dreamers75 wrote: »

Hope your taking the piss and you do realise the predicament your in.

Not taking the piss but going on facts and what i know Winning the double is just wishful thinking but we will as much of a chance as anyone else at the start of the season.

stovelid

Wouldn't mind seeing Finn and C. Bryne at Rovers.

djpbarry

Pineapple stu wrote: »

To ask how many punters are actually paying in is just plain silly.

It's a perfectly reasonable question - most clubs offer incentives to get local school kids (in particular) into their games.

Gavin "shels"

djpbarry wrote: »

It's a perfectly reasonable question - most clubs offer incentives to get local school kids (in particular) into their games.

Fingal do, 2 free National School kids with every paying adult afaik. Also they like to give freebies to works out in the Pavillions shopping centre or reduced prices.

Ebbs

stovelid wrote: »

Wouldn't mind seeing Finn and C. Bryne at Rovers.

Oh lord yes. That and Glen Crowe shot, but i'll settle for the former.

As for Fingal playing in Europe, I fail to see how they manage to stay under the 65% rule. Uefa are phasing in the whole "you cant put money into the clubs" and the whole your sponsors cant over pay in line with other clubs at your level, that should surely leave Fingal in a spot of bother.

Wage bill must be about equal to Rovers with perhaps Fingals even a little higher. Im not sure about all their players but I do know our offer for an ex-derry right back was nearly doubled so...not 100%.

Sponsorship must be less than rovers. After Real/Juve along with our higher attendances and larger fan base we draw in a lot more income via sponsorship.

Attendances...well the less said the better. Their attendances are in line with Bray et el.

I really dont see how the club are managing to get a LoI license tbh, let alone a European one.

Gavin "shels"

Ebbs wrote: »

Oh lord yes. That and Glen Crowe shot, but i'll settle for the former.

As for Fingal playing in Europe, I fail to see how they manage to stay under the 65% rule. Uefa are phasing in the whole "you cant put money into the clubs" and the whole your sponsors cant over pay in line with other clubs at your level, that should surely leave Fingal in a spot of bother.

Wage bill must be about equal to Rovers with perhaps Fingals even a little higher. Im not sure about all their players but I do know our offer for an ex-derry right back was nearly doubled so...not 100%.

Sponsorship must be less than rovers. After Real/Juve along with our higher attendances and larger fan base we draw in a lot more income via sponsorship.

Attendances...well the less said the better. Their attendances are in line with Bray et el.

I really dont see how the club are managing to get a LoI license tbh, let alone a European one.

Fingal stayed under the 65% due to players wages not all being paid by cash, apartments and cars were given to players too. Gannons 6 figure "invesment" combined with large money off Keelings, etc...

Not sure if Shams budget but remember hearing at the start of the season from a Fingal County Council worker it was in the region of €17,000 plus cars and apartments.

Pineapple stu

Gavin shels wrote: »

Fingal stayed under the 65% due to players wages not all being paid by cash, apartments and cars were given to players too. Gannons 6 figure "invesment" combined with large money off Keelings, etc...

Not sure if Shams budget but remember hearing at the start of the season from a Fingal County Council worker it was in the region of €17,000 plus cars and apartments.

Apartments and cars ? Gav you dont give up do you

Shams budget was 17,000? They did bleedin amazing if they won the league on that budget

dsmythy

So the budget is under review and everyone jumps on it. What would you rather we do? Keep the players and go all out next year and fall flat on our faces? When a new budget is decided the wage bill will fit it. If that means a relegation fight then so be it. I guarantee we won't be 4 million in debt anyway....

dreamers75

dsmythy wrote: »

So the budget is under review and everyone jumps on it. What would you rather we do? Keep the players and go all out next year and fall flat on our faces? When a new budget is decided the wage bill will fit it. If that means a relegation fight then so be it. I guarantee we won't be 4 million in debt anyway....

How did you get over the wage cap this year?

Your goalies earned more than our entire back 5 this year and we had income. No money from "investors" and no money from the council leaves you with sponsorship and gates. Your ****ed.

Theres only you and the 2 Rovers getting away with dodgy dealings this year. Rovers and Rovers paying cash in hand and "expenses" someone has to fall and it aint gonna be Rovers.


/use of rovers heh :pac:

djpbarry

dsmythy wrote: »

So the budget is under review and everyone jumps on it.

Yes, because, as I pointed out in the OP, Fingal were being touted as a model club for some bizarre reason, when it was quite evident that they were/are a totally unsustainable one man show.

Pineapple stu

You dont know much about the Sport In Fingal project do you

Its far from a one man show and will be around for a long time yet.

Gavin "shels"

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Apartments and cars ? Gav you dont give up do you

Shams budget was 17,000? They did bleedin amazing if they won the league on that budget

I'd suggest you go and ask Gerry Gannon were some players not given rented cars and apartments.

I don't know what Shams budget was, but supposedly Fingals was €17,000.Now going by the "official" Fingal attendence average of 908 a week, say each paying a tenner, take in the school freebies and a combo of kids and adults paying, that's an gate receipt of €9,080 every second week whereas wages would be €34,000 over two weeks. 2+2=5!

dreamers75

Pineapple stu wrote: »

You dont know much about the Sport In Fingal project do you

Its far from a one man show and will be around for a long time yet.

No sadly what we know is the rules, 65% of your income goes on wages.

We got busted on K "investing" his money on players wages so have to assume the same goes for you.

The 2 Rovers getting away with it but thats their future problem tbh.(in fairness i reckon Rovers have found a loophole with the expenses thing)

You on the other hand have no income yet paying players a ****load more than everyone else. You can see the problem here? How do you pay with what you dont earn.

Gavin "shels"

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Its far from a one man show

You're right, it's a two man show. Gannon and Fingal CC.

dreamers75

Gavin shels wrote: »

You're right, it's a two man show. Gannon and Fingal CC.

If thats ever proven i assume the hippies shall riot again? Seriously doubt it will tho.

Gavin "shels"

dreamers75 wrote: »

If thats ever proven i assume the hippies shall riot again? Seriously doubt it will tho.

Gannon allowing tonnes of Fingal CC documents to be stored in his offices in return for brown envelopes, pretty much proven to me.

dreamers75

Gavin shels wrote: »

Gannon allowing tonnes of Fingal CC documents to be stored in his offices in return for brown envelopes, pretty much proven to me.

100% sure that isnt true, the storing part. They are somewhere else.

Hard Worker

Where will Fingal be playing next season? Morton Stadium won't be getting a premier licence under it's present guise.
I've already had the question asked at Council level about whether Fingal CC were putting any money into the football team and I was assured that they weren't.

Lamper.sffc

Personally I hope that when the dust settles everything will be ok and if that does mean a relegation fight next year then so be it. As long as there is still a club to support then thats fine by me. I would actually quite like to see us promote more players through the youth system anyway as that is part of what the club was aiming to do. I understand the arguments against us and when they are fair and balanced I can have no complaint. The club does do a lot that is good for the community and iv posted up (on previous threads) plenty of the great projects they have rolled out over the past 3 years, so this side of it is why they got compliments. The football aint bad either.

Gav is the man for making up a lot of crap so take what he says with a pinch of salt. I know a lot of posters already know this about him. It seems with every year his beloved shells is down in div 1, he gets that little bit more angry. Let the light in ya bitter little sh1t

Anyway. I hope everything will be fine because at the end of the day our club is not Gannon or Liam Buckley or Fingal CC, Its the supporters and they are the ones who will lose out most if things dont go right.

I love this club believe it or not and the LOI is very important to me and having a club to support in Ireland means a lot to me.

Pineapple stu

Gavin shels wrote: »

Gannon allowing tonnes of Fingal CC documents to be stored in his offices in return for brown envelopes, pretty much proven to me.

You can get brown envelopes in easons and the post office handy enough gav.:D

Proven? you have no proof of any of the hilarious stuff you come up with

AgileMyth

dreamers75 wrote: »

How did you get over the wage cap this year?

Your goalies earned more than our entire back 5 this year and we had income. No money from "investors" and no money from the council leaves you with sponsorship and gates. Your ****ed.

Theres only you and the 2 Rovers getting away with dodgy dealings this year. Rovers and Rovers paying cash in hand and "expenses" someone has to fall and it aint gonna be Rovers.


/use of rovers heh :pac:

I've heard nothing to suggest that we (Sligo Rovers) have been doing anything dodgy. Nothing dodgy about proper management. Come back when you have anything to back up this statement.