Second hand PC

Dms1406

I purchased a used pc from a computer shop less than 2 months ago. It now won't boot up (file missing / corrupted registry) it didn't come with repair disks so I brought it back to the store I bought it from. I explained the problem to the man and he said he would do a fresh install/reformat of windows for no cost. Then he phones a few minutes later, the other guy who works there came back and decided it was a virus and they charge €85 to remove it. I am 99.9% sure it's not a virus (a file In the registry was deleted after a windows update) but I told him if he gives me a copy of the windows repair disk I can fix it myself. He said no "those disks are registered to HP and we can only do it in the shop) since when are windows xp/microsoft considered HP! Ha.
Then I tell him the last software installed on the machine was flash and he tells me it must be a virus in the adobe software because I probably downloaded an old version (it was the most recent version and I'm pretty sure adobe do not spread virus lol)
I told him I would fix it myself if he let's me use the disk in store and he said he was using it and busy for the rest of the day with other machines so I said no problem I will call back Thursday when I'm back in town.

Do I have a right to ask for a copy of the repair disks or at least the use of one? I know how to fix the problem and I have no problem doing it right in his presence. The 6 month warranty covers most things except virus removal but I'm certain it's not a virus (if it was I would still be able to repair it if he let me use the disk)

IrishTonyO

If he sold you the computer with the operating system on it, ask him for a copy of the official license for it. That might make him change his mind about charging you

Dms1406

I will ask him for that tomorrow. I left the machine with him and now I think we should have brought it so I will call in first thing tomorrow. A few weeks after buying it a popup came up in Microsoft office saying it wasn't a genuine version of office and I googled the exact error and it said it usually happens when the same version is registered to multiple machines. I don't trust them at all

IrishTonyO

Dms1406 wrote: »

I will ask him for that tomorrow. I left the machine with him and now I think we should have brought it so I will call in first thing tomorrow. A few weeks after buying it a popup came up in Microsoft office saying it wasn't a genuine version of office and I googled the exact error and it said it usually happens when the same version is registered to multiple machines. I don't trust them at all

Sounds like he sold you a pc with illegal versions of the operating system and Office. If he still tries to charge you ask him for the licences and tell him you are getting in touch with Microsoft to verify the licences.

Dms1406

IrishTonyO wrote: »

If he sold you the computer with the operating system on it, ask him for a copy of the official license for it. That might make him change his mind about charging you

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Sounds like he sold you a pc with illegal versions of the operating system and Office. If he still tries to charge you ask him for the licences and tell him you are getting in touch with Microsoft to verify the licences.

I would believe that now, he seems dodgy as f#ck. He doesn't even seem to know much about computers. He was insisting it was a virus and when I said nothing was downloaded except flash he said there must have been a virus sent from adobe!! can't believe he thought I was stupid enough to believe that.

off topic but the same guy has photo printing machines in his shop and about 6 months ago when we tried to print .png files off a USB stick he insisted the .png files were not image files but instead viruses and "only .jpg images are photos"

foggy_lad

remember also that although you bought this pc as 2nd hand you still have very strong statutory rights which you will find explained here. if you paid for the operating system and office software you are entitled to recieve an official copy of the licence or a refund:)

maglite

Sounds like he is selling illegal software. Next time you see the case see if there is a sticker on it from Microsoft and see if ther version and serial no match what is on the computer.

I'm going to assume it is a XP home sticker with XP pro installed. I'd be looking for a refund but you might want to see how happy you are on xp home with open office if funds are tight.

If you get stuck I can have a look at burning a copy of the Microsoft disks you need if you have a legit serial on the box.

Dms1406

Thanks for all the help so far.

Called in today and there was a different guy there (the one who sold us the PC, I believe he owns the store) he said he will take a look at it and find out what the problem is. I said I know how to fix the problem, I just need the disk so he said he doesn't give copies of the repair disks. I said fine I can do it here with your disk then he asked if I know how to get the drivers from HP or install anti virus, I said no I only ever got the drivers from dell then he cut in and said he will determine what the problem is and ring to let me know. I don't know why he expects me to install anti virus software on it if I did fix it myself since that was supposed to come with the PC (he sold it to us with office and full anti virus..which later turned out to be a free version anyways) But I would be able to install that, just not sure about HP drivers.

I didn't mention the licenses to him yet because I want to wait until I have the computer back in my hands first. I have a feeling he will say he doesn't have them or they don't give those out.

I will post here after he phones me tonight (if he does) I'll be back in town tomorrow so I will collect the pc then and ask for the licenses if he tries to charge to fix it.

Dms1406

maglite wrote: »

Sounds like he is selling illegal software. Next time you see the case see if there is a sticker on it from Microsoft and see if ther version and serial no match what is on the computer.

I'm going to assume it is a XP home sticker with XP pro installed. I'd be looking for a refund but you might want to see how happy you are on xp home with open office if funds are tight.

If you get stuck I can have a look at burning a copy of the Microsoft disks you need if you have a legit serial on the box.

thank you. How do I check that the serials match up?

I forgot to mention he asked today if I has anything important saved on the harddrive (images,music,etc) so I think he will probably just reformat. Should I still ask him for the licenses *if* he does agree to fix it for me? I would hate to be using software/products illegally

Dublin_Gunner

Dms1406 wrote: »

thank you. How do I check that the serials match up?

I forgot to mention he asked today if I has anything important saved on the harddrive (images,music,etc) so I think he will probably just reformat. Should I still ask him for the licenses *if* he does agree to fix it for me? I would hate to be using software/products illegally

Any HP machine MUST be sold with its repair disks - they come with EVERY new machine.

In fact, I have tonnes of repair disks for HP dx2400's if that happens to be the machine you have...

Tell him NOT to reformat. Tell him to do a repair install of windows, and see if that fixes it.

In fact, tell him he must supply you with either a) the repair disks or b) full, official licenses for Windows and Office - including the disks, or copies of official disks, with full licenses.

If he fails to supply these, tell him he has sold you illegal software on a machine, and you will be contacting the National Consumer Agency, and letting them deal with the matter.

Do not back down, do not let him fill you with stupid excuses. In fact, tell him as the machine was not sold to you in good faith, including the software installed in order to have the machine operate as advertised, you will be expecting a full refund unless he provides you with full, official, licensed copies of the software.

This guy is a chancer. Simple.

Could you name the shop in question? It would be easy enough to find out if they are a registered MS partner or not, or if they've tried this on others before.

Dms1406

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Any HP machine MUST be sold with its repair disks - they come with EVERY new machine.

In fact, I have tonnes of repair disks for HP dx2400's if that happens to be the machine you have...

Tell him NOT to reformat. Tell him to do a repair install of windows, and see if that fixes it.

In fact, tell him he must supply you with either a) the repair disks or b) full, official licenses for Windows and Office - including the disks, or copies of official disks, with full licenses.

If he fails to supply these, tell him he has sold you illegal software on a machine, and you will be contacting the National Consumer Agency, and letting them deal with the matter.

Do not back down, do not let him fill you with stupid excuses. In fact, tell him as the machine was not sold to you in good faith, including the software installed in order to have the machine operate as advertised, you will be expecting a full refund unless he provides you with full, official, licensed copies of the software.

This guy is a chancer. Simple.

Could you name the shop in question? It would be easy enough to find out if they are a registered MS partner or not, or if they've tried this on others before.

Should the PC come with repair disks even if it's a used PC? I'm not sure of the exact model but I'll check it tomorrow when I go back there. I can PM you the name of the shop if you want, I'd rather not post it here until I have the PC back or else my money!

Dublin_Gunner

Dms1406 wrote: »

Should the PC come with repair disks even if it's a used PC? I'm not sure of the exact model but I'll check it tomorrow when I go back there. I can PM you the name of the shop if you want, I'd rather not post it here until I have the PC back or else my money!

Ok, well PM me it anyway, I'll have a quick check. (don;t worry, I will not post anything derogatory about it).

The PC, if being sold with full licenses for Windows & Office should at least be sold with either a) the software on disk or b) provided somewhere you may obtain the software, legitimately from (like a download).

Either way, the licenses MUST be full, and in use only on your machine.

Dms1406

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Ok, well PM me it anyway, I'll have a quick check. (don;t worry, I will not post anything derogatory about it).

The PC, if being sold with full licenses for Windows & Office should at least be sold with either a) the software on disk or b) provided somewhere you may obtain the software, legitimately from (like a download).

Either way, the licenses MUST be full, and in use only on your machine.

I sent you a PM with the name, I hope it went through (trying to do this trough my phone since I have no pc!)

he called a few minutes ago to confirm there was no important data on the computer so I think he is going to reformat it. I think I will still ask him for a copy of the license when I pick it up because he is refusing to give me a repair disk

maglite

Dms1406 wrote: »

thank you. How do I check that the serials match up?

I'd only be able to match up the Microsoft serials to a product. You would have to go to the HP site to get drivers atc.

slimjimmc

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Any HP machine MUST be sold with its repair disks - they come with EVERY new machine.

That's not entirely true anymore.
In recent years HP have stopped shipping recovery disks with some PCs and instead allow you create one set of recovery disks using a utility pre-installed on the PC (once the disks are made you can't remake them). On some more recent models HP have even stopped this facility and the only way to obtain recovery media is to request them directly from HP.

goat2

foggy_lad wrote: »

remember also that although you bought this pc as 2nd hand you still have very strong statutory rights which you will find explained here. if you paid for the operating system and office software you are entitled to recieve an official copy of the licence or a refund:)

you hav e all the rights of a new machine buyer, as he is a trader

Dms1406

hi all.

got the PC back today and am typing from it now. he reformatted it and didn't charge anything. when we picked it up I asked for a repair disk incase there are similar problems in the future and again he said that he doesnt give out disks or copies of the license because the computer is registered to his store and they have one disk to use for everyone. i asked if i wrote to microsoft would they give me the disks and he said yes..but at a charge of 180 euros (!!!) should i just ask for a refund?
i don't see what use the computer is if its not registered to me even though i paid for it, and i have no software to fix it if there are problems in the future (he justified this by saying that the pc has a 6 month warranty..which doesn't mean anything since i would be able to fix it myself with the disks)

IrishTonyO

Dms1406 wrote: »

hi all.

got the PC back today and am typing from it now. he reformatted it and didn't charge anything. when we picked it up I asked for a repair disk incase there are similar problems in the future and again he said that he doesnt give out disks or copies of the license because the computer is registered to his store and they have one disk to use for everyone. i asked if i wrote to microsoft would they give me the disks and he said yes..but at a charge of 180 euros (!!!) should i just ask for a refund?
i don't see what use the computer is if its not registered to me even though i paid for it, and i have no software to fix it if there are problems in the future (he justified this by saying that the pc has a 6 month warranty..which doesn't mean anything since i would be able to fix it myself with the disks)

That's bull really, if he sold you the pc with the operating system he has to give you the licence and either disks or the setup on a partition on the hard drive.

goat2

Dms1406 wrote: »

hi all.

got the PC back today and am typing from it now. he reformatted it and didn't charge anything. when we picked it up I asked for a repair disk incase there are similar problems in the future and again he said that he doesnt give out disks or copies of the license because the computer is registered to his store and they have one disk to use for everyone. i asked if i wrote to microsoft would they give me the disks and he said yes..but at a charge of 180 euros (!!!) should i just ask for a refund?
i don't see what use the computer is if its not registered to me even though i paid for it, and i have no software to fix it if there are problems in the future (he justified this by saying that the pc has a 6 month warranty..which doesn't mean anything since i would be able to fix it myself with the disks)

that is like selling you a car secondhand, and keeping tax or registration book, very same

Dms1406

just checked the machine. the serial code on the sticker on the side should match up with the serial number under "registered to" in system properties, correct? it is not the same. the code on the machine has all the numbers that are on the sticker but there is extra numbers in between some of the numbers and "55274-OEM" at the beginning

the sticker says xp professional though and that is whats on the machine.

Dms1406

goat2 wrote: »

that is like selling you a car secondhand, and keeping tax or registration book, very same

thats what i was thinking. i feel like i am making a big deal of it but i think i should get what i paid for. he is firmly sticking to the "we don't give those with second hand machines" story though

Dms1406

IrishTonyO wrote: »

That's bull really, if he sold you the pc with the operating system he has to give you the licence and either disks or the setup on a partition on the hard drive.

he said the only way i can get the disks is buying them from microsoft! i said repair disks come with PC's when you buy them, he said no they don't then changed it to "well we don't supply them with second hand machines but you've got a 6 month warranty!"

ch750536

Two things to resolve here.

1. Have you been sold illegal software?
http://www.microsoft.com/howtotell/reports/report.aspx

2. If you have not been sold illegal software, how do I repair windows without a CD?
If the answer to point 1 is no, then you just download a version from the internet. Downloading software is not illegal, especially if you have the licence. The grey area is trying to circumvent protection. I'm sure there are suitable restore CD's out there in torrent world.

eightyfish

As ch says, if you have the license then you can download a copy of the CD from the internet and use your license key when you need to reinstall. I fix computers and have to do occasional reinstalls. Almost everybody loses their original discs. I just load it from my CD and use their license key. Windows loads and is authenticity verified every time. The only thing is you will need to make sure the CD is the same service pack version. If your sticker says SP3 then you will need an SP3 CD.

Having a sticker on your machine means you paid for Windows. Being sold a machine with no way of remastering it without resorting to this is, however, ridiculous.

PS: Having said that, I just remembered that the last second hand PC I bought didn't come with a CD, and I had to use the above method to remaster it.

Dms1406

ch750536 wrote: »

Two things to resolve here.

1. Have you been sold illegal software?
http://www.microsoft.com/howtotell/reports/report.aspx

2. If you have not been sold illegal software, how do I repair windows without a CD?
If the answer to point 1 is no, then you just download a version from the internet. Downloading software is not illegal, especially if you have the licence. The grey area is trying to circumvent protection. I'm sure there are suitable restore CD's out there in torrent world.

I looked up the info on that site to determine if the sticker on the machine is authentic and it seems to be a real microsoft sticker but the numbers don't match up with the ones that are in the machine...

ch750536

Dms1406 wrote: »

I looked up the info on that site to determine if the sticker on the machine is authentic and it seems to be a real microsoft sticker but the numbers don't match up with the ones that are in the machine...

Put that into the MS site, if there is an issue they will let you know. You have done no wrong here, you will not be prosecuted in any way. Fill in the details honestly and see what happens.

Dms1406

ch750536 wrote: »

Put that into the MS site, if there is an issue they will let you know. You have done no wrong here, you will not be prosecuted in any way. Fill in the details honestly and see what happens.

If I do that and it turns out to be illegal software won't microsoft take it without refunding me? I know it's not their job to refund but I don't want to lose out on a few hundred euros either..

Del2005

Dms1406 wrote: »

If I do that and it turns out to be illegal software won't microsoft take it without refunding me? I know it's not their job to refund but I don't want to lose out on a few hundred euros either..

They can't take the software back and if you are dishonest there are ways to defeat their protocols.

If it does come back with illegal software. Bring it back to the shop and get your money back or demand legal software and discs.

Make sure and have screen captures showing the dodgy software codes and any other info on a separate memory key/other PC in case you need them.

jahalpin

The Microsoft sticker on the side of the PC is the licence

As long as the versions match, then you are fully licensed to use the software.

Microsoft are not responsible for providing backup media for OEM versions of software.

As you have a fully licensed version of the software, you should be legally able to buy a HP XP disc off eBay for a few euros.

Archeron

slimjimmc wrote: »

That's not entirely true anymore.
In recent years HP have stopped shipping recovery disks with some PCs and instead allow you create one set of recovery disks using a utility pre-installed on the PC (once the disks are made you can't remake them). On some more recent models HP have even stopped this facility and the only way to obtain recovery media is to request them directly from HP.

Likewise, Office doesnt always ship with a disk either. OEM (preinstalled Office) is now usually activated using a license key only, so you cannot 100% expect the disks. You should however have a copy of the license key, or a COA cert (the one with a little metallic colored logo on it) as proof of your license. Without this, the software is illegal. Even if he gives you a disk, its worthless unless its accompanied by a valid license.

antocann

you can download this:
http://magical-jelly-bean-keyfinder.en.softonic.com/download

it will tell you the license code used to register windows, it should be whats on the sticker