Ever Injure Someone During Training?

flynny51

Long story short, I was doing a hip throw earlier, the guys breakfalls are bad... he used his hand to break the fall, elbow popped. Was up in the hospital for 2 hours. I feel like a dick, been going over it in my head and don't think it was my fault but still feel like a dick. He's ok though, that's the main thing. Not even a fracture. Should be ok in a month.

fizzynicenice

These things happen. Its nobody's fault.
I'm sure its natural to feel a bit guilty anyway though.

arybvtcw0eolkf

flynny51 wrote: »

Long story short, I was doing a hip throw earlier, the guys breakfalls are bad... he used his hand to break the fall, elbow popped. Was up in the hospital for 2 hours. I feel like a dick, been going over it in my head and don't think it was my fault but still feel like a dick. He's ok though, that's the main thing. Not even a fracture. Should be ok in a month.

I think we've all been injured, and have injured people in training.

In the case of that poor guy and his poor breakfall, I'm going to assume your training Judo?.

This probably falls back on a failure of the club not to teach proper Ukemi (breakfall), and that happens all too often.

As for you feeling like a dick, I can understand that completely. I knocked out a really good friend in randori with a Makikomi Osoto Gari and since then have been really reluctant to giving my Osoto Gari 100% commitment.

I don't know what to tell you there, its easy to say forget about it that accidents happen etc, but you obviously care about your training partners (as I do). Maybe speak to your buddy about his bad Ukemi.

Finally even a badly executed throw (and I'm not saying your throw was bad) should not result in your opponent falling to breakfall properly.

Good throw, and good breakfall should result in great (painless) Judo.

A recent example, one of the lads from this forum 'Sid Justice' (approx 80kgs) completely up-ended me (120kgs) with a lovely drop Ippon Seoinage. If I didn't have good Ukemi I'd have come down like your buddy (or worse). The importance of this is that both Sid Justice and myself have a good grounding in the fundimentals of Judo, resulting in Sid breaking my balance for the thrown and me using good Ukime - saving myself injury.

Sorry for the long reply.

Charlie3dan

I've also been on both sides of this and basically, it happens.
We all do our best to ensure it doesn't but if you are training for any significant period of time there are bound to be some injuries inflicted by you and upon you.

Of course you feel like a dick when you injure someone and you feel like an idiot when you get injured but there's an assumption of risk with martial arts. You'll look back and laugh at it no doubt.

cletus

make sure it doesnt negatively affect your attendance at training. One of the guys I used to train with injured another guy very badly, but completely accidentally, yet we never saw him again, which is a pity

flynny51

Kimber Plain Mussel wrote: »

This probably falls back on a failure of the club not to teach proper Ukemi (breakfall), and that happens all too often.

That's definitely not the case. We do about 15 - 30mins every class. In fact in this particular class we did even longer, we were doing ukemi as part of our warm up. Falling to the side, getting up, falling to the other side, getting up - over and over. The guy has been training with us for some time but just hasn't picked it up. His forward roll, he almost rolls on his side.

It's definitely the kind of thing that would make you reluctant to do certain techniques... at least on people who haven't demonstrated proper ukemi.

Thanks for the replies.

Burnt

flynny51 wrote: »

TFalling to the side, getting up, falling to the other side, getting up - over and over. The guy has been training with us for some time but just hasn't picked it up. His forward roll, he almost rolls on his side.

Ukemi is a fundamental part of judo, it must be taught and practiced correctly.
If he doesn't get it, he will be spending time in hospital much more often.

Practicing the wrong thing over and over again will not make you
better, it just ingrains the wrong method. If he is doing it wrong he
needs to be taken to one side and instructed 'til he gets it right.

Practice make permanent; perfect practice make perfect.

Dyr

flynny51 wrote: »

That's definitely not the case. We do about 15 - 30mins every class. In fact in this particular class we did even longer, we were doing ukemi as part of our warm up. Falling to the side, getting up, falling to the other side, getting up - over and over. The guy has been training with us for some time but just hasn't picked it up. His forward roll, he almost rolls on his side.

It's definitely the kind of thing that would make you reluctant to do certain techniques... at least on people who haven't demonstrated proper ukemi.

Thanks for the replies.

Not judo based but I've seen this in other art's where people won't bother their arse learning ukemi because they're basically selfish, they think ukemi= being the loser so they won't make any effort.

They usually wind up getting hurt in the end.

Dave Joyce

Arra feck it Ush, I thought you were gonna spill the beans on some of the knob shots that frequent Warriors Eskrima sparring sessions:D

BobbyOLeary

flynny51 wrote: »

Long story short, I was doing a hip throw earlier, the guys breakfalls are bad... he used his hand to break the fall, elbow popped. Was up in the hospital for 2 hours. I feel like a dick, been going over it in my head and don't think it was my fault but still feel like a dick. He's ok though, that's the main thing. Not even a fracture. Should be ok in a month.

I broke my training partner's nose a few years back when he went to take my back in jitz. I went to turn into him and my elbow came up and hit him square in the nose. Quick break and blood was everywhere. Felt ****e about it for a while but after having the same sort of thing (thankfully no breaks yet) happen to me I realised it was okay.

It's part and parcel of a contact sport. That's not to say it's alright to hurt your partners but if it happens once in a while accidentaly then you're okay. Don't let it take over your mind in training though, these things happen.

Cork24

Yeah broke a guys nose, during Judo. as i was throwing my hand over he's face my eblow hit his face and to make it worse i fell ontop of him and rolled over him.

Kerikosan

Haha I love how most of the Injury's are judo related haha

arybvtcw0eolkf

Kerikosan wrote: »

Haha I love how most of the Injury's are judo related haha

"A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for".

And above all else one should remember that "Ouch" is not a Judo term

Boston

I've been injured, and injured others. At my last competition I walked away with a black eye from forearm strike across the face. My most painful injury occurred as the result of an Osoto Gari. I managed to break fall so I walked about with bruises instead of broken bones.

A friend of a friend went to a German judo competition. He threw an opponent who never got up off the mat again. Died of a heart attack. It was the fault of the doctor who cleared him to fight.

In training I tend to take it easy on those I don't think can handle full force. In training I feel it's as much my responsibility to put the other guy down right as it is his or her responsibility to land right. But I accpt that this isn't a part of the sport.

opinion guy

flynny51 wrote: »

Long story short, I was doing a hip throw earlier, the guys breakfalls are bad... he used his hand to break the fall, elbow popped. Was up in the hospital for 2 hours. I feel like a dick, been going over it in my head and don't think it was my fault but still feel like a dick. He's ok though, that's the main thing. Not even a fracture. Should be ok in a month.

Ehhh so let me say I got injured by a throw. But I have always entirely blamed myself for it since I never learned to breakfall properly. Now i knew that I wasn't breakfalling properly, but since I had been getting away with it for a couple of years I just thought what i was doing was good enough. Anyhow weekend course training with different people and highger grades, got thrown harder than I was ued to (hmmm well not harder but quicker - sort of snapped over quickly) and bam - messed up my shoulder.

What I am pissed about is that no-one did any first aid. I had essentially a soft tissue injury. I was excused from the mat and ignored. I could barely change my clothes (which was the case for weeks). ANYHOW long story short - I now know has R.I.C.E. been applied I would not have had such problems with it. I've had ten years of grief from it and never trained since.

Which brings me to a question. Is there any obligation on someone setting up a club to have first aid training ? Simple steps would have saved me ALOT of pain.

--amadeus--

I'm sitting here with my toes strapped together after someone had the bad manners to block one of my kicks on Saturday

My fault for bad technique but he felt like a schmuck afterwards, no matter what I said

Cork24

i dont know how many time i walk away with a fu^^ck up back all cos some guy does not know how to throw, ok in Judo the guys need to know whos being throwing to break fall, and the guy doing the throw need to know how to do it! other wise both of you are going to get hurt.

Thank God the IJA took the alot of the going right to the legs of of Judo, keeps the BJJ at their own Sport with out coming over to judo and only doing 1 or two moves and giving judo as well a BJJ a crap name,, face it BJJ is not good nor is it what you want to know for out in the street judo is the way, no one is going to get up from a hip throw and landing on the hard floor!! not a hope!!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Cork24 wrote: »

i dont know how many time i walk away with a fu^^ck up back all cos some guy does not know how to throw, ok in Judo the guys need to know whos being throwing to break fall, and the guy doing the throw need to know how to do it! other wise both of you are going to get hurt.

Thank God the IJA took the alot of the going right to the legs of of Judo, keeps the BJJ at their own Sport with out coming over to judo and only doing 1 or two moves and giving judo as well a BJJ a crap name,, face it BJJ is not good nor is it what you want to know for out in the street judo is the way, no one is going to get up from a hip throw and landing on the hard floor!! not a hope!!

Lads, before anyone rips him a new one. This reply comes from the same genius who gave us THIS THREAD!.

i.e. ignore it.

Cork24 - stay on topic, you've had your say on BJJ on the street.

wingnut4

I always end up injuring myself! Or am I the only clumsy one to do that? lol

Boston

Cork24 wrote: »

i dont know how many time i walk away with a fu^^ck up back all cos some guy does not know how to throw, ok in Judo the guys need to know whos being throwing to break fall, and the guy doing the throw need to know how to do it! other wise both of you are going to get hurt.

During a randori session, every judoka is assumed to be able to break fall. Reality is, not everyone does. Even after two years some of my break falls are dire (Forward left side roll). If I throw you right and you land badly, thats on you.

Dyr

Dave Joyce wrote: »

Arra feck it Ush, I thought you were gonna spill the beans on some of the knob shots that frequent Warriors Eskrima sparring sessions:D

They're not injuries..they're "favours" :pac:

nobbo

Firstly, lol at the fact that 99% of the injuries are judo related!

Heres another one, tore a tendon in my shoulder while doing some contest practise for this years varsities. Was nobodys fault, I was thrown and once we went to ground my opponent tried to hold/armlock me and my shoulder just twisted a certain way which tore the tendon.
If anything it was my fault for not being more flexible.
It was defo my fault for not seeing a doc straight away and fighting in the varsities anyway just aggrevating the injury.

And injuries I did to others, the worst I think I done was when I was younger, I broke somebodys collar bone while doing an uchi mata.

MaeveD

Over the last 15 years I've had bits of me bruised, ripped, squashed, torn, seperated, broken, dislocated, bloodied and been knocked out a few times... I don't think I've ever done any serious damage to anyone else.

Don't we accept that we'll probably get hurt a few times the second we step on the mat? (especially as a female)

I'd rather have fun training for the rest of my days and fall into my coffin with a battered and broken body... the alternative is just boring and dull!

Only two people I'm still pissed off with... and they're the ones I know hurt me purposely. I still carry a wrist injury 11 years later from one f*cker.

You Judo guys are nuts though, I remember years ago we had a seminar in DCU at the same time as a big Judo competition was on... the amount of broken collarbones was crazy

UltimateMale

Boston wrote: »

I've been injured, and injured others. At my last competition I walked away with a black eye from forearm strike across the face. My most painful injury occurred as the result of an Osoto Gari. I managed to break fall so I walked about with bruises instead of broken bones.

A friend of a friend went to a German judo competition. He threw an opponent who never got up off the mat again. Died of a heart attack. It was the fault of the doctor who cleared him to fight.

In training I tend to take it easy on those I don't think can handle full force. In training I feel it's as much my responsibility to put the other guy down right as it is his or her responsibility to land right. But I accpt that this isn't a part of the sport.

I'd agree with you, like any sport, an individual should have a respondcibilty to try and insure they do not injure the other person - but some just don't care.

Interesting that most of the replies so far have been from Judo and a few from BJJ. I do TKD also, had PLENTY of injuries at it. Thing is, TKD ( or indeed other Trad MA's like Karate, etc ) get a bit of a slagging about been ,well for the use of a better word, soft. Now I'm not whatsoever saying it's in the league of Muay Thai or whatever, but believe me, I've had my share of broken ribs, knee injuries etc at TKD down the years.

Ok, you know sooner or later a genuine accident may happen, but some fellas just DON'T CARE. Accidents are one thing, recklessness is another. Their macho attittude seems to be, well, I'm not out to deliberately hurt you, but if I do, well, that's your tough luck. I rememeber been friends with a tank of a guy 6 feet plus, maybe 16 stones or more. Anyway one day in the gym he points out a guy doing some a lightwork with his girlfriend who was probably middle weight. The big moron then says into my ear- " See yer man there, I broke two of his ribs sparring a fortnight ago " with a proud smile on his thick face :mad:

It has to be said, the big moron got a few slaps down the years from some equally big lads in the club, didn't seem to sink into him that other people didn't like his attitude though.