How Katla Erupting could change Ireland's climate

snow ghost

It seems ominous that whenever Eyjafjallajokull erupts the larger Katla follows, so has anyone any opinions on how if this occurred, as is likely given the history, the resulting cooling effect would impact our climate here in Ireland?

Whilst it may be a bad thing for continental Europe, could it actually be beneficial to us???

'A year without a winter' (see below) sounds interesting - I presume this means the summer was so bad it was indistinguishable from the winter? Ben Franklin had obviously not experienced many Irish 'summers' or he might not have found this unusual.


"COLLEGE STATION, April 20, 2010 – The Icelandic volcano Eyjafjallajokull has grounded much of international travel to a halt, but if a nearby volcano named Mount Katla should erupt, it has the potential to be many times more devastating, says a Texas A&M University volcanologist who has done research in the area for decades.

Jay Miller, who has made numerous trips to Iceland over the past 25 years to study the volcanoes there and currently is a research scientist in the Integrated Ocean Drilling Program, says that an eruption from Katla could dwarf anything seen so far from Eyjafjallajokull (pronounced Eye-jaff-jalla-jok-kul).

“It’s a much larger volcano, and in the past, we know its eruptions have been much larger, too,” Miller explains.
“We know that in 934 A.D. it had one of the largest fissure eruptions of any on Iceland. We don’t have too many written records from that time, but by studying ice cores from Greenland and other weather records, we can tell that the 934 eruption was extremely powerful and had a significant impact on climate.

”So as bad as Eyafjallajokull is, Katla could be much, much worse.”
Miller says Katla has been more active than others in the region.
Eyjafjallajokull has erupted only three times in the past 1,000 years, while Katla has erupted at least 20 times since then. But Katla seems to erupt whenever Eyjafjallajokull does. Three times in history when Eyjafjallajokull has erupted – in 920, 1612 and 1821 – Katla has, too.

That’s why the current eruption could be a bad omen: Every time Eyjafjallajokull has erupted – as it has for the past week – Katla follows behind, always erupting within the same year, sometimes just a few months after its little sister.

“We don’t know when because volcanoes in that part of the world are very difficult to predict,” he notes, adding that Katla is located about 10 to 12 miles from Eyjafjallajokull but is not part of the same volcano system.
“We do know that Katla has been a much more active volcano. Its last significant eruption came in 1918,” he notes. “An eruption from nearby Grimsvotn volcano in 1783 occurred and so much volcanic haze and ash covered Europe and Asia that it had a dramatic cooling effect. Ben Franklin, who was ambassador to France at the time, called it ‘the year without a winter’ and he later wrote a paper about volcanoes affecting climate called ‘Meteorological Imaginations and Conjectures’ and presented it at a conference the following year.

“History tells us that we need to watch Mount Katla very closely,” Miller adds."
http://tamunews.tamu.edu/2010/04/20/another-iceland-volcano-to-erupt-katla-could-be-the-worse/

Mobhi1

It wasn't actually Katla that affected the climate in 1783. Do we know what climatic effects occurred in 1612, 1821 or 1918 after Katla?

Katla erupts reasonably frequently - usually twice every hundred years - there must be records of its affect on the climate over the last couple of hundred years?

maquiladora

I'd be more worried about Yellowstone myself. :pac:

snow ghost

"The previous eruptions of this powerful volcano caused massive flooding in Iceland. So if this happens, scientists fear the negative impact of the poisonous gas on the weather pattern in Iceland and this could threaten the European climate too.

Volcanic debris resulted from the eruption of Laki, another powerful Icelandic volcano in the mid 1780s, had disastrous consequences on Europe’s climate, killing many people in the British Isles after the wind carried the poisonous gas to the area."

That doesn't sound good! Poisonous gas - I guess at least nowadays we have gas masks.

Not sure about 1918, etc. But found this about an aerlier eruption - that's a lot of water:

"At the peak of the 1755 eruption the flood discharge has been estimated between 200,000–400,000 Cubic metres per second.

for comparison the combined average discharge of the
Amazon River, Mississippi River, the Nile and Yangtze River rivers is about 290,000 m³/s."http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Katla

Deep Easterly

Not really sure how an eruption at Katla would effect us here in Ireland, but going by British records, 1919, the year after the last major eruption was one of the coldest years of the 20th century:

http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~taharley/1919_weather.htm

Sponge Bob

As I said in this forum Katla certainly seems to have caused the last Ice Age in Northern Europe ...if you call the 1,000 Year Younger Dryas an 'age' rather than a part of an age.

The ash deposit is variously called the Vedde Ash or the North Atlantic Ash Zone 1/Ash Zone 1 .

1783 was the Laki Traps eruption in Iceland. That eruption just poisoned people with foul vapours rather than deposit ash. It killed 20,000 in England alone in 4 months ( 2 separate outbreaks ) out of a then population of c. 7 million.

Excess mortality of 5000 a month or 60,000 a year is near enough 1% of the population a year of a poisoning rate.

snow ghost

I guess it all dependes on the intensity of any Katla eruption.

That Laki one sounds horrendous - check this link out: http://iberianature.com/britainnature/how-a-volcanic-eruption-in-iceland-affected-britain/

"The summer of the year 1783 was an amazing and portentous one, and full of horrible phaenomena; for besides the alarming meteors and tremendous thunder-storms . . . the peculiar haze, or smokey fog that prevailed for many weeks in this island . . . was a most extraordinary appearance, unlike anything known within the memory of man. . . . The sun, at noon, looked as blank as a clouded moon, and shed a rust-coloured ferruginous light on the ground, and floors of rooms; but was particularly lurid and blood-coloured at rising and setting."

Pangea

The year without a summer was caused by a series of volcanoes going off around the same time.
If you look at the tempertures ,it was bloody freezing that year, so no question there was no summer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer


The laki volcano would be more similar to our situation at present, and when that went off there was even ice in the gulf of mexico

BBC did a special program on the effects of laki volcano on europe a few years back, if i find it il let yas know.

Im not sure if laki is bigger than katla?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6276291.stm

peterdaly

Im thinking of buying shares in Stena Line... I reckon this is just the start. The climates said to be reduced after Large volcanic activity.

Sponge Bob

Pangea wrote: »

The year without a summer was caused by a series of volcanoes going off around the same time.

That was mainly a very large ash volcano in Tambora. When Toba went off it caused 6 years with no summer on the trot and near wiped out the human race.

Danno

So now after reading this thread, can anyone justify Carbon Taxes?

Deep Easterly

Danno wrote: »

So now after reading this thread, can anyone justify Carbon Taxes?

Talk to the hand:

mike65

This is all a bit miserable, so we might get a summer and then winter for 18-24 months?

Deep Easterly

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Excess mortality of 5000 a month or 60,000 a year is near enough 1% of the population a year of a poisoning rate.

Thanks for that. :pac:

Graces7

snow ghost wrote: »

"The previous eruptions of this powerful volcano caused massive flooding in Iceland. So if this happens, scientists fear the negative impact of the poisonous gas on the weather pattern in Iceland and this could threaten the European climate too.

Volcanic debris resulted from the eruption of Laki, another powerful Icelandic volcano in the mid 1780s, had disastrous consequences on Europe’s climate, killing many people in the British Isles after the wind carried the poisonous gas to the area."

That doesn't sound good! Poisonous gas - I guess at least nowadays we have gas masks.

Not sure about 1918, etc. But found this about an aerlier eruption - that's a lot of water:

"At the peak of the 1755 eruption the flood discharge has been estimated between 200,000–400,000 Cubic metres per second.

for comparison the combined average discharge of the
Amazon River, Mississippi River, the Nile and Yangtze River rivers is about 290,000 m³/s."http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Katla

Gas masks? Where?

IvySlayer

Thank God I saved those iodine tablets the government sent :pac:

MayoForSam

Sounds like chickens coming home to roost - Mother Nature looks like she's finally had enough of us messing up the planet so has decided to introduce a bit of a cull :eek:

Someone else on here I think mentioned the possibility of a large Katla eruption causing an ash deposit to form over Greenland and the polar ice sheet, causing the albedo to drop significantly and melting the ice. This in turn would affect the Labrador current / salinity of the North Atlantic and consequently switch off the Gulf stream.

If you considered every possible way we could get screwed over in the next while between CERN black holes, volcanoes, tidal waves, global warming, etc. then it would be very difficult to sleep at night.

Personally speaking, I am very adept at putting all of these issues to the back of my mind and never miss out on my beauty sleep. Ignorance is bliss in some cases.

nacho libre

i'm just glad i'll be able to have the last laugh on people who thought i was crazy for building an underground bunker:D

Pangea

Found the killer cloud documentary
Anyone who wants the link , pm me.

thetonynator

IvySlayer wrote: »

Thank God I saved those iodine tablets the government sent :pac:

they're out of date now . . .

Graces7

MayoForSam wrote: »

Sounds like chickens coming home to roost - Mother Nature looks like she's finally had enough of us messing up the planet so has decided to introduce a bit of a cull :eek:

Someone else on here I think mentioned the possibility of a large Katla eruption causing an ash deposit to form over Greenland and the polar ice sheet, causing the albedo to drop significantly and melting the ice. This in turn would affect the Labrador current / salinity of the North Atlantic and consequently switch off the Gulf stream.

If you considered every possible way we could get screwed over in the next while between CERN black holes, volcanoes, tidal waves, global warming, etc. then it would be very difficult to sleep at night.

Personally speaking, I am very adept at putting all of these issues to the back of my mind and never miss out on my beauty sleep. Ignorance is bliss in some cases.

Less than a hundred years ago we would never have heard of these events until afterwards.... The media and communications have a lot to answer for.. one of the reasons there is no TV or radio here.

thetonynator

Graces7 wrote: »

Less than a hundred years ago we would never have heard of these events until afterwards.... The media and communications have a lot to answer for.. one of the reasons there is no TV or radio here.

but you still find out all these things on the internet anyway . . .don't you???

kevin12345

nacho libre wrote: »

i'm just glad i'll be able to have the last laugh on people who though i was crazy for building an underground bunker:D

I would too if I could

Graces7

thetonynator wrote: »

but you still find out all these things on the internet anyway . . .don't you???

In a less invasive and less graphic way with the poor connection here. Few images and no youtube etc.

After all one needs to know when to head for the bunker.

Not saying it is bad; just that in crises many suffer more from too much news and images... After 9/11 folk who watched TV none stop needed counselling. It is the amount and intensity that modern communications bring.

We were heavily involved with counselling online after 9/11 and saw what a deluge of media coverage did to many.

snow ghost

Graces7 wrote: »

Not saying it is bad; just that in crises many suffer more from too much news and images... After 9/11 folk who watched TV none stop needed counselling. It is the amount and intensity that modern communications bring.

Tell me about it I'm still traumatised after Thierre Henry's hand-ball! :eek:

As for the gas-masks try a protective clothing supplier or builders merchant, but better be quick they'll be gone faster than surgical masks during the swine flu pandemic if Katla blows.

Nacho,

I thought you were building that bunker incase the Galwegians invaded? Btw does it have a bar?

I know of a secret hidden cave on the side of the Reek that I intend to slink off to should the End of Days be upon us.

I was out in the Mountains today and the haze was intense - has to be remants of that volcanic ash at low levels. There is normally haze due to vapour, etc, but this was something else.

I also notice how parched and dusty the land was and how low the spate river levels are - it's was seriously like a desert out there... very unusual, it was almost like being in the outback.

Sponge Bob

snow ghost wrote: »

it was almost like being in the outback.

That is because Mayo IS the outback.

That low level brownish haze was around last week before the volcano dust too, probably all dem bog fires as well as the weather.

snow ghost

Sponge Bob wrote: »

That is because Mayo IS the outback.

That low level brownish haze was around last week before the volcano dust too, probably all dem bog fires as well as the weather.

This haze was different, very intense...especially when looking up at the peaks... what bog fires?

Didn't see Crodile Dundee on my travels today, or skippy, but if the land becomes anymore parched yes Mayo's wilderness could rival the aussie one. Haven't had dust on my boots like that since Australia.

Deep Easterly

snow ghost wrote: »

This haze was different, very intense...especially when looking up at the peaks... what bog fires?

A lot of bog fires over the last week around these here parts Snow, even today we had that brown smoke haze hovering over town most of the afternoon. There seemed to be another biggie in or around Lavally (approx) earlier on, maybe MayoforSam could confirm this?

I am not sure if them forest fires are still happening up around the Swinford/Charlestown area? We had a lot of smoke from that down here over the last couple of days too.

Snow Ghost wrote:

I thought you were building that bunker incase the Galwegians invaded? Btw does it have a bar?

When we do invade, a bunker will not save Nacho. He will be the first martyr

Snow Ghost wrote:

Didn't see Crodile Dundee on my travels today, or skippy, but if the land becomes anymore parched yes Mayo's wilderness could rival the aussie one. Haven't had dust on my boots like that since Australia.

Yep, very dusty weather. Amazing month really, I recorded 70.6mm of rain, around the monthly average, in the first 6 days of the month, and since then, nothing. Very unusual to have such a prolonged spell of very dry weather such as this. Even seen the light wind whipping up dust of the ground today as well. Something is telling me we will pay for this big time. Last June's dry spell was followed by severe storms and downpours in the first half of July and again in the 2nd part of August. Last September and the first 2/3rds of October were shockingly dry to be followed by more heavy rain and showers throughout the last part of Oct well into November. So far, Jan/Feb/March and April have all had unusual stretches of almost severe dryness, the only question is, when will the possible payback occur? :eek:

snow ghost

Deep Easterly wrote: »

A lot of bog fires over the last week around these here parts Snow, even today we had that brown smoke haze hovering over town most of the afternoon. There seemed to be another biggie in or around Lavally (approx) earlier on, maybe MayoforSam could confirm this?

I am not sure if them forest fires are still happening up around the Swinford/Charlestown area? We had a lot of smoke from that down here over the last couple of days too.

Didn't know that about the bog / forest fires! Bloody radio i102 tells you nothing!!!! :mad: This haze was around Doo Lough, Sheefry hills and Maam Turks, so not sure it was from fires?

Check this pic out, you may just be able to make out the slight browny colour of the haze I saw over the mountains compared to the top of the pic. Haze is nothing unusual over the mountains and at Doo Lough but it is usually bluey-grey, this had a distinct organgey tinge to it. UK Met Office said the ash clouds had been observed from ground level in England yesterday, so I'm convinced it was something to do with the Volcano. Could be wrong though!

If it is ash in the atmosphere who knows what we are inhaling... it's enough to make me want to give up smoking. :eek:

.

snow ghost

Deep Easterly wrote: »

Yep, very dusty weather. Amazing month really, I recorded 70.6mm of rain, around the monthly average, in the first 6 days of the month, and since then, nothing. Very unusual to have such a prolonged spell of very dry weather such as this. Even seen the light wind whipping up dust of the ground today as well. Something is telling me we will pay for this big time. Last June's dry spell was followed by severe storms and downpours in the first half of July and again in the 2nd part of August. Last September and the first 2/3rds of October were shockingly dry to be followed by more heavy rain and showers throughout the last part of Oct well into November. So far, Jan/Feb/March and April have all had unusual stretches of almost severe dryness, the only question is, when will the possible payback occur? :eek:

Too true Deep! You should have seen the spate rivers - I know they were 'spate' rivers but a tadpole couldn't have swam up the trickles that were there.

Hopefully if the monsoons come they do so in May so I can convince myself that the rest of the summer will be great according to tradition.

Been a strange year so far weatherwise, so who knows what may happen.

snow ghost

Deep Easterly wrote: »

I am not sure if them forest fires are still happening up around the Swinford/Charlestown area? We had a lot of smoke from that down here over the last couple of days too.

Btw, tisn't no forest fires... that's Nachos fire defences to keep ye out! :pac: