Triggering a strobe light with on-cam flash, issues.

Thecageyone

First off, big thank you to smelltheglove for giving me the strobe light + soft box for free. Very generous of you

She gave me a quick run through of how to get it going last night, but it seemed like the on-board flash was cancelling out the off cam strobe. I want to use this light for portraits and still life etc ... in the house. I have great natural light during the day coming through the patio doors

and I would use the light to kill shadows on the opposite side.

Problem is, though it seems to fire in sync with the camera's flash, the results are not appearing in the images. I've tried a range of settings. I've also tried covering the on-board flash with a piece of card [just letting enough flash seep out the side to trigger the light] - to see what the light was doing on it's own. 've even included the light in test shots, hoping to see it lit up in the image. Unfortunately not so. There must be some kind of delay? or sync issue? If it was a mere microsecond out even, it would affect the image yeah? But the naked eye wouldn't notice this delay?

Any tips/suggestions? What exact settings should I have the camera set to? All I want is for it to fire dead in line with the shutter so I can kill face shadows and that kind of thing.

Thanks.

DaireQuinlan

Thecageyone wrote: »

Problem is, though it seems to fire in sync with the camera's flash, the results are not appearing in the images. I've tried a range of settings. I've also tried covering the on-board flash with a piece of card [just letting enough flash seep out the side to trigger the light] - to see what the light was doing on it's own. 've even included the light in test shots, hoping to see it lit up in the image. Unfortunately not so. There must be some kind of delay? or sync issue? If it was a mere microsecond out even, it would affect the image yeah? But the naked eye wouldn't notice this delay?

The problem is likely that it's firing BEFORE your exposure. Your onboard flash most likely has a series of pre-flashes to measure flash exposure. These are probably triggering the strobe so that it fires before the shutter opens. Dunno how you'd turn these off on a Sony. Try putting the onboard flash into manual mode somehow, this should turn them off.

Alternatively the strobe trigger might have some sort of way of configuring it so that it triggers after a short delay, or ignores metering pre-flashes. Most of these are designed to be used completely manually though.

smelltheglove

Its unfortunate that the camera doesnt have the right connections for the cable unfortunately. The flash would go just once, the strange thing was that if using just the on board flash it would go off at the right time and show in the image, on these occasions the strobe would just be turned away so as not to fire, but when the strobe was turned towards the subject neither flashes would go in sync with the shutter.

Not knowing Sony I didnt know exactly the reason for it myself, all I could recommend was that thecageyone gets a cheap infrared trigger which should do the job.

Thecageyone

Yup, looking into getting a hot-show trigger


Just for now I'd love to mess around with this new toy

I'll have a another go and try different flash settings.

.Longshanks.

If you need a set of cheap triggers, I can recommend yongnuo RF-602 radio triggers. You loose all iTTL that you might have been used so its manual all the the way (but what better way to learn ). Cost me approx €30 from ebay and haven't missed a beat yet

DaireQuinlan

smelltheglove wrote: »

Its unfortunate that the camera doesnt have the right connections for the cable unfortunately.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about Minolta's stupid custom hot shoe. Just looking there the A200 doesn't even have a sync socket ? that's a bit remiss of them.

melekalikimaka

what shutter speed you shooting at... thats usually the issue

smelltheglove

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about Minolta's stupid custom hot shoe. Just looking there the A200 doesn't even have a sync socket ? that's a bit remiss of them.

Yeah I remember that from when I had my first minolta. It could be a way around it if he could use a hot shoe adapter but then the cheap triggers most likely wouldnt work as they are often designed specifically for canon or nikon and not interchangeable between brands.

Thecageyone

1/160 is the fastest the cam will flash-sync, there's a HSS mode but that's only for wireless flash isn't it?

The Sony hot-shoe is a pain in the rear end, as their flash guns are stupid prices.

Also the lack of a sync socket, stg did give me a cable too, but there's nowhere to input it unfortunately, that would indeed have made life a lot easier.

smelltheglove

Does anyone know if this is the right sort of thing, http://cgi.ebay.ie/16-Channels-Wireless-Remote-Studio-Trigger-For-Sony-E23_W0QQitemZ300415938829QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Photography_StudioEquipment_RL?hash=item45f22f710d I think it should do the job but could be wrong.


Cagey next time I am in Navan will bring tripod for you, in the boot of the broken car in the garage sorry:(

VisionaryP

Thecageyone wrote: »

1/160 is the fastest the cam will flash-sync, there's a HSS mode but that's only for wireless flash isn't it?

Nope, not just for wireless. You do need a HSS compatible flash or strobe though.

ThOnda

It is more likely that your built-in flash pre-flashes to measure the exposure and that triggers the main flash that has not enough time to charge for the main flash of the built-in flash.

Get a hot shoe adapter with cable, if there are such things on the market. Usually you can get them for non-standard cameras.

Thecageyone

That'd be great stg

I just broke my tripod trying to fix the softbox to it! I unscrewed the head, as the connections were different, but the light wouldn't fit the bare pole either, when I went to put the head back on the tripod the screw on section just ... broke! It was an ancient piece of crap tripod anyhow.


But for some reason, the strobe isn't triggering from the camera now it works fine when I click test button, and I didn't change any settings on the camera itself from last night. It's just not finding it now!?

Is this why I have stayed away from lights up to now? Mad to get it working here, it's just not happening

bernard0368

Smelltheglove, I have a second hand set of lights and the trigger system is very similar to the link you have. Works like a dream on the couple of times I used the lights.

smelltheglove

bernard0368 wrote: »

Smelltheglove, I have a second hand set of lights and the trigger system is very similar to the link you have. Works like a dream on the couple of times I used the lights.

cool, should work so, alternatively as said above, you should be able to get a hit shoe adapter with a cable in put http://cgi.ebay.ie/Flash-hot-shoe-adapter-SC-5-for-Sony-a700-a900-a500-New_W0QQitemZ160422219564QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Photography_DigitalCamAccess_RL?hash=item2559e8cf2c

Thecageyone

I just googled this problem to see what would show up, and got a link right back to here, lol.

smelltheglove

Thecageyone wrote: »

I just googled this problem to see what would show up, and got a link right back to here, lol.

:DJust like what you said would happen last night. Go for the trigger if funds allow, if not the adapter should do the trick.

Borderfox

Can you shoot in manual mode and then the flash wont pre-fire? turn any red eye reduction off too?

smelltheglove

Borderfox wrote: »

Can you shoot in manual mode and then the flash wont pre-fire? turn any red eye reduction off too?

Was in manual mode. Dont think red eye was on at all but thats one to check alright.

Thecageyone

I always stay in manual mode, well, the odd time I switch to Aperture priority to get a round about idea on a good shutter speed for the chosen ap, then flick to manual and adjust from there [usually find the camera's A mode was well off for what i want]

I never use flash so any red-eye reduction is always off.

It's odd, because it was triggering fine last night, apart from the lack of direct effect from the light, now it's playing up more [the camera] and not triggering at all!

hmboards

What is the external strobe ? Has it been switched out of slave mode since last night maybe ?

Thecageyone

hmboards wrote: »

What is the external strobe ? Has it been switched out of slave mode since last night maybe ?

Complete n00b here, how do I check?

hmboards

Thecageyone wrote: »

Complete n00b here, how do I check?

It depends - what is the external flash ? If it's a normal flash plugged into a hotshoe slave adapter you shouldn't have to switch anything special on, but if the flash has it's own slave feature you usually turn it on or off through a switch or menu.

Thecageyone

I'm only using the camera's built in flash to trigger. It was working fine last night, but now it's not co-operating. Strangely, I've just switched lenses from the 50mm back to kit, and it did trigger a couple of times, but not every time. The light works, as the test button on it does fire the light. Been through every flash option on the camera and nothing is working

.Longshanks.

Batteries?

Thecageyone

For which? The camera battery is at 98% [info lithium], the strobe light was plugged in.


Actually, you might be onto something there Longshanks, as when I tried initially today the battery was at 67% and I was aware of that, when it continued not to fire I charged her up for an hour which brought it up to 98% but it still didn't fire right off. It is firing now, maybe it dropped out of sync because the battery was low?

Now I'm back to the original problem, it's firing but not having any effect. I'm blinded from staring at the light but it's not lighting the images.

Dual dilemma on this, 1) If I was to buy a hot-shoe trigger it might have the same issues? and 2) I was kindly given this for free and would love it to work so I can start showing some results with it and show that I am making use of it

smelltheglove

Thecageyone wrote: »

For which? The camera battery is at 98% [info lithium], the strobe light was plugged in.


Dual dilemma on this, 1) If I was to buy a hot-shoe trigger it might have the same issues? and 2) I was kindly given this for free and would love it to work so I can start showing some results with it and show that I am making use of it

I used it with a hot shoe adapter a couple of times. WOrked just fine so you should be ok, just my adapter is for nikon.

hmboards

Try a google of your camera model and the model of the studio light. I'm nearly sure you won't get this to work without a sync cable, as something I read a while ago suggests that the A200 sends out signals via the flash meant for a Sony slave, and these interfere with standard optical slaves. The solution suggested was a hotshoe adapter and sync cable. Wireless would be an option either. Apparently full manual control of the flash is only available on the A700 and above. I can't find the forum again now that I read this in! I had searched for A200 and Elinchrom (a brand of studio light).

Thecageyone

Think we've hit the nail-on-head.

Just posted in a sony forum on Flickr, same issue. You're right, the A200 doesn't have full manual flash, only TTL and ADI modes. Even though it appears to me not to be firing a pre-flash, it's obviously setting the light off a split-sec too early and the shutter is missing the lighting effect.

Only soloution is the hot shoe, must get onto it.

Cheers for all suggestions.