What is your opinion on flamboyant/stereotypical homosexuals?

DubArk

bodice ripper wrote: »

spare me this rubbish. I am all for rights, but that is not linked to this community nonsense. Or at least it doesn't have to be.


there is no community. we have never met. We weren't born into culturally similar backgrounds. we don't share a language. we don't come from one geographical region.

I think we're getting off the original OP's thread here but I have to say I agree 100% with you. I am who I am and I happen to be Gay and that’s it.... I have never felt part of some sub culture...

It's all of our responsibility to make sure noone rights are sh*t on! Not just mine.

Annasopra

bodice ripper wrote: »

spare me this rubbish. I am all for rights, but that is not linked to this community nonsense. Or at least it doesn't have to be.


there is no community. we have never met. We weren't born into culturally similar backgrounds. we don't share a language. we don't come from one geographical region.

A "community" doesn't necessarily have to be strictly defined by culture, language or geography

bodice ripper

I just had a peek at a few dictionary definitions of "community", I won't post them all on here, but I did not see one which applied.


I wouldn't associate myself with other people based on our sexual practices.


And, as well put above, we should be interested in rights for everyone, not just our own.

bodice ripper

Links234 wrote: »

To Fred Phelps and his cronies we're all fags.


To these murderers, we are all the same.



So no, I'm not whipping out a nazi comparison, I'm making a point of why we're in this together

See, to them, you're just another freak... like me! :pac:

what a stupid reason to associate with anyone.

MicraBoy

bodice ripper wrote: »

I just had a peek at a few dictionary definitions of "community", I won't post them all on here, but I did not see one which applied.


I wouldn't associate myself with other people based on our sexual practices.


And, as well put above, we should be interested in rights for everyone, not just our own.

the quality or fact of being shared or common

the gay community
the train-spotting community
the body modifcation community etc.

By virtue of the fact that you feel the need to be counted out, means you acknowledge there is "something" to be counted out of. That is a community, whether you want to be part of it or not is your decision.

And the stupidest thing I ever heard is that fighting for rights should be done by individuals, and not by groups of individuals who share a common sense of identity or purpose. When did that ever work?

Links234

bodice ripper wrote: »

we should be interested in rights for everyone, not just our own.

Which would be great if everyone else was interested in rights for us too, but they're not.
This is a world where everyone is after their own interests and everyone has their own battles to fight, most people in this country couldn't give a damn about civil partnership, same sex adoption, or any of the other things that impacts the lives of LGBT people, who really don't care if someone loses their job because of their sexuality or gender identity, and there are those who are quite opposed to rights for us.

All across the world there are LGBT groups who are there to support and help people, there are shelters specifically for LGBT youths who are thrown out of their homes and disowned by their families after coming out. There are support groups for people who are struggling to come to terms with their sexuality or gender identity. There's all kinds of support, help and advice out there, as well as those who are working towards more rights, freedoms and recognition for all LGBT people.
Would you have wanted to be counted out if you needed support when coming out? Would you have wanted to be counted out when David Norris campaigned against the criminalization of homosexuality? Or would you like to be counted out if the ban on blood donations from gay men is lifted?

I would hate to think of a world where we didn't care for our own.

shay_562

Links234 wrote:

Why do you think this is about your personal opinion?

...because you started out by arguing against the personal opinions of gay people who have anything but pure, unadultered tolerance/acceptance/whatever for everyone who is LGBT, regardless of other personal characteristics? And you can say "It's not about your personal opinion, it's about a prevailing attitude", but a prevailing attitude is just a number of people with similar personal opinions. When I say I amn't ostracising flamboyant people, or any LGBT people I don't personally like, I mean that no one is ostracising them simply by not liking them. Being LGBT doesn't and shouldn't mean automatic acceptance by other LGBT people simply because you have some shared experience of hardship.

Thaedydal wrote:

The amount of decisive derision I have been on the end of has been unreal.
but still I will stand up for the right for everyone to be themselves and not be stereotyped and make to feel less due to who and how they are.

Given that you seem to have felt the sting of having other LGBT people dismiss or insult you because your views/personality didn't fit with their own preconceptions, I'd think you'd be a little slower to give out to people for having 'issues' that they need to work out simply because they say something that goes against your own ideas of what being LGBT means. But again, I personally see a huge line between a right to be yourself (that is, a right to live as you please without being hassled in the street, discriminated against in law or in some other way prevented from living how you like) and a right to always have everyone like you for it/in spite of it.

Links234

shay_562 wrote: »

...because you started out by arguing against the personal opinions of gay people who have anything but pure, unadultered tolerance/acceptance/whatever for everyone who is LGBT, regardless of other personal characteristics?

I thought I started off arguing against someone suggesting that if a male wants to act effeminate that he should get a sex change, and the enforcement of gender binary roles?

shay_562

Links234 wrote: »

It always saddens me to see LGBT people to say that non-standard gender expression is not ok.

That's not you giving out about one misguided teenage poster, that's a general statement about a more encompassing viewpoint, that I challenged as such.

bodice ripper

MicraBoy wrote: »

the quality or fact of being shared or common

the gay community
the train-spotting community
the body modifcation community etc.

By virtue of the fact that you feel the need to be counted out, means you acknowledge there is "something" to be counted out of. That is a community, whether you want to be part of it or not is your decision.

And the stupidest thing I ever heard is that fighting for rights should be done by individuals, and not by groups of individuals who share a common sense of identity or purpose. When did that ever work?

I've already said I don't believe We have anything in common, beyond sexual practices, which I don't think makes a great basis for a community.

If "LGBTQ people" decide as a group to march for a certain set of rights which I agree with, or riot, I'm down. My showing up will be my indication that I am ready to be counted in. otherwise, don't try and enforce this idea that we, as a community, have one view on anything. I wasn't asked to vote for a representative.

Sorry

I tend not to be enamoured with flamboyance, be it by gay people, straight people, bisexual people or asexual people. I also do not see myself as part of some community or shared experience with people whom I do not have a jot in common with other than the fact that I like some of the same things as they do in the bedroom.

wonderfulname

wonderfulname wrote: »

To be honest I'm not a big "community" person, I've always wanted to live my own life in a manner not dictated by sexuality, LGBT is something I don't overly get (Yes I see the irony when I'm drawn to this forum!).

As you can see earlier in this thread I recognized the irony in my being here when I don't see myself as a "community" person. To be honest I could have written an essay on that, instead I'll stick to a few lines.

Theres a lot of people posting in this thread who recognize no such irony. Who are speaking out against this idea of a "community" without reflecting on what exactly they are doing here, I'd like to ask those people,

What drew you to this forum? Why are you here?

Not in an aggressive manner or not even in search of an answer, I'd just like for you to reflect on whats going on right here. The "community" and the "scene" are not the one thing, and you all know you are not here due to common "sexual practices".
This very form is a manifestation of the community, and you, in posting here, are simply verifying your membership. The community is not just about sex or sexuality, and like it or not you all appear to identify with it.

bodice ripper

wonderfulname wrote: »

This very form is a manifestation of the community, and you, in posting here, are simply verifying your membership. The community is not just about sex or sexuality, and like it or not you all appear to identify with it.

it does nothing of the sort. I also hover around religious fora, because I like an argument, auto fora, because my car is ****e, etc.


it does not mean I am part of the car community, or the catholic community.

Am I to be a member of the fat community? and the green eyed community? Should I throw my lot in with any group of american ex pats I can find, becuase if we don't look out for our interests, who will?

screw ghetto-izing yourself, ever when the world stops forcing you into one.

wonderfulname

bodice ripper wrote: »

it does nothing of the sort. I also hover around religious fora, because I like an argument, auto fora, because my car is ****e, etc.


it does not mean I am part of the car community, or the catholic community.

Am I to be a member of the fat community? and the green eyed community? Should I throw my lot in with any group of american ex pats I can find, becuase if we don't look out for our interests, who will?

screw ghetto-izing yourself, ever when the world stops forcing you into one.

I would attempt to argue this but considering you haven't done a particularly good job of either reading or addressing the above post I'm just going to point out one or two things.

1) Again, had you paid attention, I am not an active community member, and very much against "ghetto-izing" myself

2) You even quoted it, "The community is not just about sex or sexuality"

bodice ripper

wonderfulname wrote: »

1) Again, had you paid attention, I am not an active community member, and very much against "ghetto-izing" myself

2) You even quoted it, "The community is not just about sex or sexuality"

1) good for you. I don't believe it even exists. when I said "yourself" I meant it in the sense of "oneself".

2)I don't agree that there is a community, so telling me it isn't about sex or sexuality is pointless.

wonderfulname

bodice ripper wrote: »

I don't agree that there is a community

Think less community then and more umbrella grouping of people if it makes you happier. And with regards the sex or sexuality point, I was merely pointing out that arguing ridiculous things like the car community or the green eyed community wasn't actually arguing the statement at all.

bodice ripper

wonderfulname wrote: »

Think less community then and more umbrella grouping of people if it makes you happier. And with regards the sex or sexuality point, I was merely pointing out that arguing ridiculous things like the car community or the green eyed community wasn't actually arguing the statement at all.

No. I refuse to think of myself as part of a group of people I rarely interact with, particularly if that means I shall be told that i "owe it" to the community to feel/act a certain way.

you claimed my participation on this forum was proof that i was part of the community. I am also participating on auto fora......

wonderfulname

bodice ripper wrote: »

No. I refuse to think of myself as part of a group of people I rarely interact with, particularly if that means I shall be told that i "owe it" to the community to feel/act a certain way.

You see in my opinion thats not the community itself but a group within the community.

bodice ripper wrote: »

you claimed my participation on this forum was proof that i was part of the community. I am also participating on auto fora......

Ah yes but your over simplifying, you participate on the auto forums because you have a crap car? Say you don't participate in I dunno.. the boardgame forum? Its because you have no interest, you can't relate to the idea of discussing boardgames? So you relate to the idea of discussing LGBT issues? So you have an interest in whats going on?

Bougeoir

Well people consider me to be 'camp' and I suppose I am quite 'camp' or 'effeminate' or whatever word one wishes to use. I don't put on an act or choose my personality or modes of behaviour. And I've endured discrimination not just from straight people (mainly males) but from other gay men mainly more masculine types and it's easy for them to get up every morning and the world never suspects them to be gay. I, on the other hand ,get f*cking mocked and taunted by people, insults thrown at me, people constantly asking 'Are you gay?' Yeah I can't hide being gay from the world and I'm not ashamed either. Even if I dressed more masculine like I used to, people would still know. I tried acting masculine but it didn't work. And I felt ashamed trying to be somebody I'm not. We're supposed to be a community, united be stand, no? And to criticise others for their dress, personality is the high of rudeness. Gay Pride is only in a couple of days and maybe some fellow gays out there might need to consider looking at similarities rather than differences.

esposito

Sorry man but not all gay people will see eye to eye with each other - just like straight people. I'm gay but not camp. I've nothing against camp gay people but I just hate the stereotype portrayed by the media/society about gay people.

Bougeoir

esposito wrote: »

Sorry man but not all gay people will see eye to eye with each other - just like straight people. I'm gay but not camp. I've nothing against camp gay people but I just hate the stereotype portrayed by the media/society about gay people.

Me too! I hate the way the media and people in general equate campness with homosexual men. It affects me because I am constantly stereotyped!

Katherine Jane

I find anyone who is flamboyant (gay, straight, bi, or TG), and in your face about it to be almost a cartooned version of reality. HOWEVER, even though these habits are annoying, that doesn't stop me from being friendly to ANYONE who is a good person. There is SO much more to life than sexuality. Most of us just wish to be left alone to chase our dreams. You will never see most of us on Jerry Springer!!!