Dublin Bus Network Review

LXFlyer

Rabbitt wrote: »

Firstly . Does anyone think that DB original ND proposals were ment to be ridiculous amd over the top amd never intended to go ahead with some of the more stupid original plans
eg the 140 running from IKEA to Kiltipper and operating via the N81.
instead they now release routeplans after consultation to look as if they listened to customers and are te great people when the reality is that a route like that proposed would be madness

Also the 77a serving Killinarden and OldBawn Tymon North wi mean the average journey from Citywest to Ringsend will be about 1h 20 mins. Madness.
They would need to have them every 8mins in rush hour
Also the 166 should have been routed via Blessington Road and Westbrook to Citywest.

DB cannot win - they either are criticised for not listening and now you're criticising for them listening to what people say to them.

As for Citywest with the LUAS opening will anyone really want to use the 77a instead?

LXFlyer

ILBondo wrote: »

If i lived in City West i would be livid with Dublin Bus right now, they have pulled two direct routes the 65B and 50 and replaced them with one that sends them on a huge detour all the way into town via Killinarden, Oldbawn and Tymon. The high frequency wont compensate for the fact that this adds up to 30 minutes on to the journey they are used to. Network Direct FAIL.

Surely most of the residents of Citywest will be switching to LUAS in a couple of months?

I'd be surprised if the bus changes happen before that.

SteM

The new 27 route is some trek - Edenmore trhough the city centre to Jobstown! Can't believe that they'll be able to keep up a 10 minute peak schedule on that route, busses will end up getting bunched together imo.

Anyone know what's happening with the 140? It's still listed at the top of the page here

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/Network-Direct-Phase-2/Tallaght-Walkinstown-Crumlin-Road-South-Circular-Road-Pearse-Street-and-Sandymount/

but there is no route info given. I thought it was running IKEA to Kiltipper, has that been changed after public consultation?

LXFlyer

SteM wrote: »

The new 27 route is some trek - Edenmore trhough the city centre to Jobstown! Can't believe that they'll be able to keep up a 10 minute peak schedule on that route, busses will end up getting bunched together imo.

Anyone know what's happening with the 140? It's still listed at the top of the page here

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/Network-Direct-Phase-2/Tallaght-Walkinstown-Crumlin-Road-South-Circular-Road-Pearse-Street-and-Sandymount/

but there is no route info given. I thought it was running IKEA to Kiltipper, has that been changed after public consultation?

It has - it's now going to operate to Palmerston Park via Upper Rathmines Road replacing the 128 and 14a in that area.

wayne040576

lxflyer wrote: »

Surely most of the residents of Citywest will be switching to LUAS in a couple of months?

I'd be surprised if the bus changes happen before that.

It depends what part of the city you're travelling to. I use the 50 at the moment and I wasn't planning to use the Luas as it would take longer to get in to town. But now with the changes...

I thought the new 77A route wasn't going through Killinarden?

LXFlyer

wayne040576 wrote: »

It depends what part of the city you're travelling to. I use the 50 at the moment and I wasn't planning to use the Luas as it would take longer to get in to town. But now with the changes...

I thought the new 77A route wasn't going through Killinarden?

Fair point, and I am a little concerned about the lack of connections between Citywest and the Templeogue QBC (and the reuction from Tallaght) through the removal of the 65b. At peak times they always had good loadings.

The 77a will now service Killinarden under the revised proposals, replacing the 50 and 65b west of Tallaght.

Rabbitt

The people ( especially the school kids)of Killianrden and Citywest have been done over wthe the removal of the 65b.
Unfair to ask them to get two buses now 77a to square and 65 , considering the 65 isn't regular

ILBondo

Surely most of the residents of Citywest will be switching to LUAS in a couple of months?

The Luas is already takes longer to reach the city centre than most buses from tallaght/citywest and will probably take a half an hour longer to reach city than the current 65b or 50 which are being abolished and being replaced by the roundabout 77a. Direct services being replaced by services that take much longer to get into town- this really contradicts network directs plan of making routes more direct. This renders insignificant the complaints of people living in monks town farm.

patrickbrophy18

ILBondo wrote: »

The Luas is already takes longer to reach the city centre than most buses from tallaght/citywest and will probably take a half an hour longer to reach city than the current 65b or 50 which are being abolished and being replaced by the roundabout 77a. Direct services being replaced by services that take much longer to get into town- this really contradicts network directs plan of making routes more direct. This renders insignificant the complaints of people living in monks town farm.

I couldn't agree with you more, ILBondo. Places like Tallaght and City West are almost cities in themselves and are a much higher priority for public transport than the likes of Monkstown Farm which is incredibly well served by buses.

LXFlyer

ILBondo wrote: »

The Luas is already takes longer to reach the city centre than most buses from tallaght/citywest and will probably take a half an hour longer to reach city than the current 65b or 50 which are being abolished and being replaced by the roundabout 77a. Direct services being replaced by services that take much longer to get into town- this really contradicts network directs plan of making routes more direct. This renders insignificant the complaints of people living in monks town farm.

I think that you are exaggerating journey times in a big way.

The journey time for the 65b from Citywest to City Centre at peak times is well over an hour, and off-peak about 50 minutes to an hour depending on the time of day, by virtue of going around the Killinarden loop.

The LUAS from Citywest stop to Abbey should take about 45 minutes which I would suggest is most definitely faster than either the 50 or 65b. I cannot see people preferring the bus over a faster more frequent LUAS service unless they are going to somewhere not served by the LUAS.

From Tallaght (Square), however, I would suggest that the journey times on the bus are quicker by about 10 minutes in the off-peak than LUAS.

I did that commute for 6 years so I know exactly what the journey times are like.

I do however agree that there remains a need for some sort of service along the Templeogue QBC to Tallaght/Citywest in addition to the 65, but perhaps at a lower frequency than the existing 65b given that more people will in all likelihood switch to the LUAS at the outer end of the route.

Rabbitt

Deffo need to have something to replace the 65b.
The LUAS is of no use to the people who need to get to templeogue terenure and rathmines.
Do the people have any comeback on these propsals or is it set in stone ?

qerty

http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/6844/Merrion%20Road%20QBC%2015.06.2011.pdf
New map for merrion road.


http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/6940/Finglas%20East%20v7.pdf
New map for finglas east.

LXFlyer

SteM wrote: »

The new 27 route is some trek - Edenmore trhough the city centre to Jobstown! Can't believe that they'll be able to keep up a 10 minute peak schedule on that route, busses will end up getting bunched together imo.

Anyone know what's happening with the 140? It's still listed at the top of the page here

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/Network-Direct-Phase-2/Tallaght-Walkinstown-Crumlin-Road-South-Circular-Road-Pearse-Street-and-Sandymount/

but there is no route info given. I thought it was running IKEA to Kiltipper, has that been changed after public consultation?

That's where proper and sensible regulation by the controllers should come in, aided by the AVLC GPS system.

A2000

Looks like the 9 will serve Wadelai along with 11 according to map. There has been no update on Ballyfermot page since 21/10/10. No info regarding 76 being retained in Ballyfermot. Also on Tallaght page no frequency for 76/A. This info is very well hidden re network direct and there should be an alert on the main DB page informing that changes have been made. Some people wont need to attend the protest this Saturday as their particular battle may already have been won but was not advertised.

qerty

A2000 wrote: »

Looks like the 9 will serve Wadelai along with 11 according to map. There has been no update on Ballyfermot page since 21/10/10. No info regarding 76 being retained in Ballyfermot. Also on Tallaght page no frequency for 76/A. This info is very well hidden re network direct and there should be an alert on the main DB page informing that changes have been made. Some people wont need to attend the protest this Saturday as their particular battle may already have been won but was not advertised.

The info regarding the 76/a is on the clondalkin and tallaght pages.
The 76 will operate to Ballyfermot while the 76a will operate to Blanch.
the 76 will have 20 minutes peak and 30 minutes off peak service.
no 76a frequency announced.

The Ballyfermot page and other areas will probably be updated over the next week or so, I would imagine.

I completely agree that they are hiding the information very well.

A2000

I would imagine the frequency on those pages is the for the original 76 Tallaght to Blanch and has not been updated yet.

qerty

A2000 wrote: »

I would imagine the frequency on those pages is the for the original 76 Tallaght to Blanch and has not been updated yet.

Everything else has been completely updated. It was also removed on the Tallaght page. I doubt that one frequency was left unchanged on the Clondalkin page.

A2000

But 1 was left off namely 76A?

qerty

A2000 wrote: »

But 1 was left off namely 76A?

Along with 9, 54a,166,122,17,123 and 49

A2000

You may be right but if the 76 frequency is 20 and 30 and the 76A has to be added to the mix then the 76/A on the Tallaght to Liffey Valley leg will be even more frequent than it is now which I doubt will happen. Either 76 and 76A will run independently or more likely it will be 76 then 76A possibly every 20 mins giving 40 min frequency peak for each. Hopefully more info will be forthcoming and updated maps soon.

stop

Why are so many routes serving Harristown? iirc there's nothing there except a bus garage, so why waste the time/fuel terminating routes there?

qerty

A2000 wrote: »

You may be right but if the 76 frequency is 20 and 30 and the 76A has to be added to the mix then the 76/A on the Tallaght to Liffey Valley leg will be even more frequent than it is now which I doubt will happen. Either 76 and 76A will run independently or more likely it will be 76 then 76A possibly every 20 mins giving 40 min frequency peak for each. Hopefully more info will be forthcoming and updated maps soon.

You may be right. They may operate an alternating service.
I think though that they will run independently with the 76 operating the current route and the 76A running the length of fonthill road, as intended. The 76a entering Liffey valley via Neilstown/Coldcut road will result in the bus looping around itself 3 times on the roundabouts to let people off at liffey valley.

LXFlyer

A2000 wrote: »

Looks like the 9 will serve Wadelai along with 11 according to map. There has been no update on Ballyfermot page since 21/10/10. No info regarding 76 being retained in Ballyfermot. Also on Tallaght page no frequency for 76/A. This info is very well hidden re network direct and there should be an alert on the main DB page informing that changes have been made. Some people wont need to attend the protest this Saturday as their particular battle may already have been won but was not advertised.

I would think the 9 will take the existing 19a route that skirts the northern end of Wadelai rather than going through the estate. That's what the detailed route list suggests.

LXFlyer

A2000 wrote: »

You may be right but if the 76 frequency is 20 and 30 and the 76A has to be added to the mix then the 76/A on the Tallaght to Liffey Valley leg will be even more frequent than it is now which I doubt will happen. Either 76 and 76A will run independently or more likely it will be 76 then 76A possibly every 20 mins giving 40 min frequency peak for each. Hopefully more info will be forthcoming and updated maps soon.

I would think that the combined frequency will be 20 min peak and 30 mins off-peak.

LXFlyer

stop wrote: »

Why are so many routes serving Harristown? iirc there's nothing there except a bus garage, so why waste the time/fuel terminating routes there?

The 83 will serve several business parks en route, while I think the 140 may be an error on the map - all of the text states that it will terminate at IKEA.

SparkyTech

Text from todays Irish Times

FURTHER CHANGES and cuts will be implemented across the Dublin Bus network in coming months, a spokeswoman for the company has confirmed.

Dublin Bus is about a year into the biggest review of its routes undertaken in its history and almost halfway through the implementation of route changes, realignments and redesign, known as the Network Direct project.

The company says it will mean “more direct, regular, frequent and reliable services with a network that is simpler and easier to understand”.

The project has, however, given rise to a citywide campaign, Save Our Bus Services, which says the changes are in fact cuts to services, which will hurt the old, the disabled and schoolchildren most.

Local campaigns are under way in Ringsend, Dundrum, Donnycarney, Crumlin, Ballymun, Whitehall, Finglas, Dún Laoghaire and Clondalkin, while others are emerging as changes are implemented.

Following small local protests last weekend, which organisers declared a “first step” in a concerted campaign, a larger demonstration is planned outside Dublin Bus headquarters at noon on Saturday.

The Network Direct project was announced in April last year and follows the 2008 Deloitte report, Cost and Efficiency Review of Dublin Bus, which was endorsed by the government. It recommended a fundamental review of routes and services given the dramatically changed Dublin city.

The key aims of Network Direct were to make routes more direct with fewer diversions into housing estates, to make them more regular and to simplify the network.

The spokeswoman for Dublin Bus yesterday rejected claims by the campaign that changes were being implemented with little or no consultation. “We have held numerous public information roadshows and public meetings, meetings with residents and with elected representatives as well as dealing on a daily basis with customers and elected representatives either by phone or e-mail.

“Since the public consultation in this area the Network Direct team have engaged almost daily with residents and local representatives regarding their queries, so to suggest that Dublin Bus has not advertised, engaged with our informed people of proposals for this area is unfair and inaccurate.”

Areas that have had service changes – Stillorgan, north Wicklow, Lucan, north Kildare and Blanchardstown – have seen passenger number increase and there has been positive customer feedback.

“The following areas have been through the public consultation process, the feedback and issues raised are being considered and in some areas plans have been revised,” the spokeswoman said.

“They are Finglas south, east and west, Glasnevin, Drumcondra, Merrion Road, Malahide Road, Cabra, Clondalkin, Ballyfermot, Tallaght, Walkinstown, Crumlin Road, South Circular Road, Pearse Street, Sandymount, Kilmacud, Goatstown, Ballinteer and Dundrum. As yet there are no final implementation dates for these areas.”

She said the Network Direct project was supported by the National Transport Authority and any route changes had to be approved by the authority before implementation.

Bríd Smith, councillor and co- ordinator of the Save Our Bus Services campaign, said the campaign was growing as the public became aware of the changes.

PASSENGERS PROTEST: PLANS TO TAKE 19 OFF ROUTE OPPOSED

A HANDFUL of protesters, members of the Save the Number 19 campaign, boarded the 3.50pm service of the bus yesterday at Bulfin Road in Kilmainham. They were there to carry a petition with 5,000 signatures against plans to eliminate the route to the headquarters of the National Transport Authority in the city.

Organiser Brian Stafford said withdrawal of the number 19 would affect people across the city, from Inchicore, through Harold’s Cross, Camden Street, Phibsboro and Finglas.

“This is a unique route,” Mr Stafford said. “A significant number of people use it to attend hospital and doctor appointments. Many are elderly and for many the 19 bus is their only realistic option. If it is scrapped, people will be very badly hit here.”

Patricia Larkin, an elderly Bulfin resident, said that she used the service “quite a lot”. “I want to keep a local service because I use it to go to Camden Street. I volunteer with Alone and if the 19 went I’d have to get two buses.”

John Francis Smith, also elderly, said he used the 19 to go to eye appointments in Harrington Street. “I don’t know how I’d get there without the 19. I suppose I’d have to walk to Rialto to catch a bus and I have a bad hip.”

A spokeswoman for Dublin Bus said the 19 route was not being scrapped. “Yes, the route number 19 will no longer be used but the area, route and bus stops that it currently serves will continue to be served – albeit by different bus route numbers . . .

“Route 19 will be replaced on the south side of the city with a realigned route 68. The 68 will operate from Newcastle to Hawkins Street and will serve Clondalkin, Bulfin Road, South Circular Road and Camden Street . . .

“This route will operate via Bulfin Road and then on the exact same route alignment, serving the exact same bus stops as the current route 19 does in south Dublin.”

Cookie_Monster

SparkyTech wrote: »

Text from todays Irish Times

more drivel from people who want to see DB remain static and unchanging. OK so some of what ND is doing is questionable but to oppose it all is silly

“This is a unique route,” Mr Stafford said.

:rolleyes: All routes are unique, that's why they have numbers

The article briefly mentions the main positive of the whole project

The key aims of Network Direct were to make routes more direct with fewer diversions into housing estates, to make them more regular and to simplify the network.

but then goes on to how poor old Joe Soap is detrimentally affected:

“This is a unique route,” Mr Stafford said. “A significant number of people use it to attend hospital and doctor appointments. Many are elderly and for many the 19 bus is their only realistic option. If it is scrapped, people will be very badly hit here.”

Patricia Larkin, an elderly Bulfin resident, said that she used the service “quite a lot”. “I want to keep a local service because I use it to go to Camden Street. I volunteer with Alone and if the 19 went I’d have to get two buses.”

John Francis Smith, also elderly, said he used the 19 to go to eye appointments in Harrington Street. “I don’t know how I’d get there without the 19. I suppose I’d have to walk to Rialto to catch a bus and I have a bad hip.”

But where are the comments from the hundred or thousands of people who now benefit from a faster, more direct, more frequent 46a or 145 etc?

phasers

I'm fed up of waiting now, change the buses ffs!

I look out the window every morning to see if the 78as are 40s yet :pac:

Heart

Patricia Larkin, an elderly Bulfin resident, said that she used the service “quite a lot”. “I want to keep a local service because I use it to go to Camden Street. I volunteer with Alone and if the 19 went I’d have to get two buses.”

Won't the 68 operate through Bulfin along Camden Street to the city?

KD345

It's funny how this quote from Dublin Bus...

The key aims of Network Direct were to make routes more direct with fewer diversions into housing estates, to make them more regular and to simplify the network.

Is followed by this quote from Dublin Bus...

“Route 19 will be replaced on the south side of the city with a realigned route 68. The 68 will operate from Newcastle to Hawkins Street and will serve Clondalkin, Bulfin Road, South Circular Road and Camden Street . . .

Taking one of the longest routes on the Dublin Bus network and diverting it from a direct bus priority route into a housing estate and have it cross the south inner city completely contradicts the policy of Network Direct.

I totally understand Dublin Bus feel the need to do this because of pressure from resident groups, but they are just annoying even more passengers in the process.

Making statements claiming there has been positive feedback from phase one is not being entirely truthful. I have no doubt there has been some positive responses from Lucan, Blanchardstown and Stillorgan commuters, but refusing to acknowledge the huge level of dissatisfaction is wrong. You only have to read a few pages of this thread to understand just how negative some of the feedback was.

It's tough for Dublin Bus. They need to cut costs, and tidying up duplicate routes like the 19 and 122 makes sense. It's how they manage to sort out places like Bulfin that will prove interesting. The frustrating thing is that Bulfin is surrounded by high frequency routes like the 51b, 51c, 78a and 123, so it's not like they have no service, but yet they still want their direct link along the SCR which has led to the new 68 being established. You just hope the passengers from Newcastle understand that as their journey takes 20/30 minutes longer.