Dublin Bus Network Review

LXFlyer

Turtyturd wrote: »

Does anyone know when the 27b/79 merger is supposed to take place??...was hoping the timetable would be sorted out before college resumed so I would know what the timetable was like.

Had a quick look at the website and couldn't see anything, but the 14/20b merger is going ahead so I assume the other ones out this way are too.

They may be prioritising other changes that deliver greater cost savings first.

Also, there could be internal issues in getting the driver rosters agreed (like the 40/78a merger seemingly).

patrickbrophy18

The_Wrecker wrote: »

The 45a and 59 has been put back till later in 2011.

I'm not too sure about the 45a. It's reasonably direct, except for the sharp turn at Wyattville Road and this a very small detour to take in the western half of Ballybrack. I can't really see how this route can be improved, alignment-wise, other than to increase the frequency at peak times.

However, it will be interesting to see what changes are supposed to be made with the 59 route. It's an absolute mess. While the network direct project seeks to reduce the number of buses and consolidate routes with more efficient use of resources, it is taking a step too far when a bus route ends up resembling a spider-web. The 59 should be split into two routes as follows:

Route 1 (59):

• Variation 1
• Variation 2

Route 2 (59A):

• Variation 1
• Variation 2

Route 1 (59) Variation 1 goes the same route from Dun Laoghaire to Dalkey Roundabout. It then takes in Hyde Road, Castlepark Road, Saint Catherines Road, Avondale Road, Rochestown Avenue and Johnstown Road. It bypasses Mackintosh Park. This makes sure that most of the areas currently served by the 59 are still served. It is then extended to Cabinteely, Cornelscourt, Carrickmines and terminates in Ballyogan Green Line Luas Stop.

Route 1 (59) Variation 2 goes the same route from Dun Laoghaire to Dalkey Roundabout. It then takes in Hyde Road, Castlepark Road, Saint Catherines Road, Avondale Road, Rochestown Avenue, Johnstown Road and Mackintosh Park. This makes sure that most of the areas currently served by the 59 are still served. It is then extended to Bakers Corner, Deansgrange, Clonkeen Road, Cornelscourt, Carrickmines and terminates in Ballyogan Green Line Luas Stop.

Route 2 (59A) Variation 1 goes the same route from Dun Laoghaire to Dalkey Roundabout. It then takes in Barnhill Road, Barnhill Avenue, Saval Park Road, Killiney Hill Road, Killiney Road, Ballinclea Road, entire length of Rochestown Avenue, Kill Avenue Stillorgan Road, Leopardstown Road and finally terminating in Sandyford Green Line Luas Stop. It doesn't serve Mackintosh Park.

Route 2 (59A) Variation 2 goes the same route from Dun Laoghaire to Dalkey Roundabout. It then takes in Barnhill Road, Barnhill Avenue, Saval Park Road, Killiney Hill Road, Killiney Road, Ballinclea Road, Rochestown Avenue, Johnstown Road, Mackintosh Park, Kill Avenue Stillorgan Road, Leopardstown Road and finally terminating in Sandyford Green Line Luas Stop.

thomasj

Its good to see that the 161 has been extended to ticknock (although the proposed frequency is not great)

But it should be merged with the 114 providing a proper 7 day local service linking blackrock with sandyford dundrum ballinteer rockbrook and whitechurch

Rabbitt

65b to be kept but not serving the square or tallaght village. Happy with that but wonder will the 10 min frequency o the 77a be reduced even though I see the 65b as a one bus an hour timetable now

LXFlyer

thomasj wrote: »

Its good to see that the 161 has been extended to ticknock (although the proposed frequency is not great)

But it should be merged with the 114 providing a proper 7 day local service linking blackrock with sandyford dundrum ballinteer rockbrook and whitechurch

They mean Tibradden - not Ticknock - The bus turns at Kilmashogue Lane.

monument

Baron de Robeck wrote: »

The 78A and 40 changes are being referred to the labour court but I don't know the date of the hearing.

What exactly is the issue?

LXFlyer

Presumably the driver rosters.

Getting the public consultation over and done with is only 50% of the work. Then they have to get the rosters approved by the marked-in drivers on each route.

Bear in mind this route will be operated by two garages going forward, so that adds an extra twist!

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

Presumably the driver rosters.

Getting the public consultation over and done with is only 50% of the work. Then they have to get the rosters approved by the marked-in drivers on each route.

Bear in mind this route will be operated by two garages going forward, so that adds an extra twist!

lxflyers point here is worth clarifying as it encompasses one of the most important issues surrounding how Dublin bus has evolved from it's beginnings as the Dublin City Services arm of CIE.

As with any large scale structured organization the process of devising and implementing change has to be structured and rational,both internally and externally.

It can be argued that Phase 1 of Network Direct was anything but structured or rational.

However there does now appear to be an acceptance that Phase 1's mistakes could not be carried forward into the remainder of the process.

The shrinkage in terms of staff and fleet has gone through with no Industrial Relations issues other than some delays as route and roster changes were debated or amended in the light of the Phase 1 experience.

There have been widespread Human Resource changes,with routes and their staff allocation disappearing and staff being displaced from long held "marked-in"(Regular) status back to "spare" (less predictable) status.

Being displaced in this manner brings a staff member back to effectively "Junior" status,a somewhat unpopular feature of Bus work everywhere,although different operators have varying methods of muddling through it.

Public Transport work anywhere involves the very worst examples of "Shift Work" as a principle,with hours of work in Dublin Bus now stretching to 23 out of 24.

In visits to many UK and European cities I have found the common conversation point amongst Bus Drivers will be the Duty spreads,the "good one`s" vs the "Pigs"

However,in the current climate,what is apparent to anybody who remembers the "Old Days" is just how Industrial Relations within Dublin bus have matured.

I would be fairly confident in stating that under the old situation we would have already had several disruptions or wildcat stoppages as Network Direct' s changes were implimented.

Instead,we have seen the process of negotiation within Dublin bus pushed to it's limits and eventually the system came up with solutions,which whilst not ideal,did manage to reach acceptable compromise.

It was/is a close run thing,particularly as Phase 1 was such an unmitigated disaster in terms of strategy.

Phase 2 is progressing at a far more realistic pace with lessons being learned far quicker than heretofore.

With a bit of luck,and continued co-operation the remainder of Network Direct follow through and hopefully provide a platform from which to expand ?

LXFlyer

Top post Alek!

SparkyTech

New proposals seem acceptable, albeit not brilliant, enough with the feedback DB taken onboard.

15b will continue to serve Rathgar and an improved section of Rathfarnham over the 74a.

Improved frequency of new 61 and 44 combined to give Miltown/Ranelagh/Clonskeagh a decent service

Rerouting of the 175 to serve Balinteer.

161 should have been extended to Dundrum long ago, but, like the 8, with such a paltry frequency, its nothing to sing home about.

Still think the combining of the 74/15/128 routes is akin to the proposal of the later abandoned 54a/140 merger, unworkable.

LXFlyer

SparkyTech wrote: »

Still think the combining of the 74/15/128 routes is akin to the proposal of the later abandoned 54a/140 merger, unworkable.

Why exactly?

The 140 will cover the southern end of the 128, so effectively you are merging the 15 and 74 on the south side, just extending it north.

Provided the running times are sufficient there should not be a significant problem.

LXFlyer

SparkyTech wrote: »

Rerouting of the 175 to serve Balinteer.

The 175 always was going to serve Ballinteer - it's now going to serve Broadford. There's more to Ballinteer than just Broadford estate!!!

rx8

lxflyer wrote: »

Bear in mind this route will be operated by two garages going forward, so that adds an extra twist!

This kind of arrangement is also being proposed for the 27/77 route and after talking to some ringsend drivers about it, there is no way any of us can see it working.

Buses will be left sitting around with a lot of angry passengers on board because the Ringsend driver won't come back from his break early to relieve the Clontarf driver. (and vice-versa)

This is going to cause riots on eden quay when the junkies are left waiting to get their fix.:rolleyes:

On another note, the company are bringing in all these changes, after "public consultation"... , not a bit of consultation with drivers on the affected routes though, or any incentive or movement on other issues which the unions have let be moved to the back-burner.

After this they will be back looking for a reduction in sick days, and to take away the doctor too.
Meanwhile the 6% pay increase is never on the agenda, and this has been the case for over 3 years now.The Unions aren't worth a damn anyway, they all seem to be in the company's pocket and have fu*k all interest in the drivers.

LXFlyer

rx8 wrote: »

This kind of arrangement is also being proposed for the 27/77 route and after talking to some ringsend drivers about it, there is no way any of us can see it working.

Buses will be left sitting around with a lot of angry passengers on board because the Ringsend driver won't come back from his break early to relieve the Clontarf driver. (and vice-versa)

This is going to cause riots on eden quay when the junkies are left waiting to get their fix.:rolleyes:

That should not happen if the running times are correctly calculated, something that does seem to have improved over recent changes.

Are you suggesting that a Ringsend driver would come back early to facilitate another Ringsend driver, but won't do it for a colleague just because he works out of a different depot?

rx8 wrote: »

On another note, the company are bringing in all these changes, after "public consultation"... , not a bit of consultation with drivers on the affected routes though, or any incentive or movement on other issues which the unions have let be moved to the back-burner.

After this they will be back looking for a reduction in sick days, and to take away the doctor too.
Meanwhile the 6% pay increase is never on the agenda, and this has been the case for over 3 years now.The Unions aren't worth a damn anyway, they all seem to be in the company's pocket and have fu*k all interest in the drivers.

What was to stop any driver making a submission during the public consultation?

As for sick days and pay increase etc - times are changing - welcome to the real world. Dublin Bus staff are lucky that they have not suffered a cut in basic pay unlike most other areas of society, but have contributed through greater flexibility.

The company has to change otherwise it will not exist - with cuts in PSO funding it has to cut costs otherwise it will run out of money. I think you need to look at the bigger picture.

SparkyTech

lxflyer wrote: »

The 175 always was going to serve Ballinteer - it's now going to serve Broadford. There's more to Ballinteer than just Broadford estate!!!

By sending the bus down Stonemasons Way & back up through Broadford its also opening up the route to the Lewelyn and Marley Court Estates, 10 mins walk from the 48a terminus, who would otherwise be disconnected from the 75 service that currently runs past.

LXFlyer

I know that - I was being slightly facetious pointing out that there is more to Ballinteer than just those areas. The bus is just going to serve more of it!

Your original post suggested it wasn't serving Ballinteer at all!

It's a very sensible change that won't add much time to the trip.

Jesus Wept

Talk that they plan to take away the 19. They can **** off, the 19 is needed.

Devilman40k

The-Rigger wrote: »

Talk that they plan to take away the 19. They can **** off, the 19 is needed.

No talk, it is being taken off and replaced with revised 122 (to herberton rd) and a change to 68 to Bulfin through to City iirc

D14

Seems that the 14/20B, 48a, 44, 161 and 61/16a changes are going ahead on the 7th of August according to this network direct flyer I got at the bus stop today!

Boulevardier

D14, I see no mention of the 44 or 44B on that flyer.

Do you (or anyone else) know what changes if any are being made to those routes?

KD345

Boulevardier wrote: »

D14, I see no mention of the 44 or 44B on that flyer.

Do you (or anyone else) know what changes if any are being made to those routes?

The 44 timetable will be revised at a later date.

There is no change planned to the 44B.

D14

Boulevardier wrote: »

D14, I see no mention of the 44 or 44B on that flyer.

Do you (or anyone else) know what changes if any are being made to those routes?

On the reverse side of the flyer there is the map of the 61, 14, 161 and 44

LXFlyer

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Ballinteer--Dundrum--Whitechurch--Milltown--Ranelagh--Beaumont/

The new timetables for Routes 14, 15b, 61 and 161 commencing Sunday August 7th are now online.

The 15b will temporarily terminate at Ballyboden Way until a later phase.

The 14 timetable is (despite earlier fears) pretty much the same if not better than the combined existing 14/14a timetable.

14:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/14-Revised-Times/

15b:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/15b-Revised-Times/

61:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/61-Revised-Times/

161:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/161-Revised-Times/

dfx-

Presuming it's do with this nonsense...but since when has the 122 no longer gone over Dolphin's Barn bridge? I saw the bus stop head for the 122 on the Crumlin Rd taken down this week..

weehamster

lxflyer wrote: »

The 14 timetable is (despite earlier fears) pretty much the same if not better than the combined existing 14/14a timetable.
14:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/14-Revised-Times/

I've noticed that BAC has the 14 down as terminating in Beaumont, but Ardlea Road is in Artane which is about 1km from where Beaumont actually is. Typical BAC not even bothering getting the place names correct.:cool:

SparkyTech

So much for an improved 161! 5 departures a day is paltry.

Dub13

weehamster wrote: »

I've noticed that BAC has the 14 down as terminating in Beaumont, but Ardlea Road is in Artane which is about 1km from where Beaumont actually is. Typical BAC not even bothering getting the place names correct.:cool:

Its right beside the Artane Beaumont Family Recreation Centre.....:rolleyes:

KD345

dfx- wrote: »

Presuming it's do with this nonsense...but since when has the 122 no longer gone over Dolphin's Barn bridge? I saw the bus stop head for the 122 on the Crumlin Rd taken down this week..

The 122 routing changed last weekend. It now travels through Rialto heading to Drimnagh.

KD345

SparkyTech wrote: »

So much for an improved 161! 5 departures a day is paltry.

There are also now 3 peak time services on Route 61 to Tibradden in the morning and afternoon.

Aard

SparkyTech wrote: »

So much for an improved 161! 5 departures a day is paltry.

As the 161 and the new 61 are so close together (even the numbers are similar), perhaps DB should have looked at using the 161 as the southern end of the 61, then extending to Ticknock. Something like Ticknock > Whitechurch Rd > Willbrook Rd > Nutgrove Ave > Dundrum Rd > ...

It would keep the connection at Dundrum Luas, as well as providing a relatively frequent service between Whitechurch, Nutgrove, and Dundrum, which seems to be the point of the 161). Granted, Lidl at Stonemasons Way is out, but a minor inconvenience I'd think in exchange for an hourly service.

This deviation shouldn't add significantly to the 61's route.