Dublin Bus Network Review

cillchainnigh

lxflyer wrote: »

Going ok so far - time from Braemor Road to St Stephen's Green is about 20-25 minutes off-peak and about 30-35 minutes peak. Add about 5-10 minutes to get to Connolly.

Great, thanks for the info. That'd be manageable.

Still considering my options - bus, Luas, cycle or drive....

LXFlyer

As an example the 0705 14 ex-Dundrum this morning (about 0720 on Braemor Road) was on Suffolk Street at 0740. That would be normal up to the 0720 departure inbound. However things do start to slow up somewhat from the 0735 departure onwards, particularly when the schools go back as I suggested above, but not by more than 10 minutes.

cillchainnigh

lxflyer wrote: »

As an example the 0705 14 ex-Dundrum this morning (about 0720 on Braemor Road) was on Suffolk Street at 0740. That would be normal up to the 0720 departure inbound. However things do start to slow up somewhat from the 0735 departure onwards, particularly when the schools go back as I suggested above, but not by more than 10 minutes.

Thanks lxflyer. I could live with that as usually start early in the mornings. How is it the evenings?

LXFlyer

25-35 minutes in the evening peak.

teol

mgmt wrote: »

I was just reading about the proposed improvement of the Navan Road QBC. It looks like a great scheme and will really improve journey times and reliability. Anyone know the progress on the work.

http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/QBNProjectOffice/DCN/Pages/DublinCityNorth.aspx

There is construction work on the Navan Road beside the library and McDonalds. Is this the QBC work??

pclive

No this is work for the new Tesco developemt behind McDonalds

D14

I was on the 14 today, the live timetable in Rathmines was showing one due and one in 2 mins and another in 7 mins and this was only at 430 In the afternoon! The 14's becoming a super route!

qerty

D14 wrote: »

I was on the 14 today, the live timetable in Rathmines was showing one due and one in 2 mins and another in 7 mins and this was only at 430 In the afternoon! The 14's becoming a super route!

I was in rathmines recently at 1pm and quite a few 14's were passing by in either direction! Really seemed to be more 14's than one every 20 minutes! Seems to be working very well so far

CIE

Wonder how long that will last. Dublin Bus seems to have increased and decreased bus service in waves on a lot of routes, starting with CitySwift and City Imp. Waiting for the subsequent wave of service decreases...

KD345

CIE wrote: »

Wonder how long that will last. Dublin Bus seems to have increased and decreased bus service in waves on a lot of routes, starting with CitySwift and City Imp. Waiting for the subsequent wave of service decreases...

More like they change service levels to reflect passenger demand. Dublin constantly changes and the bus service needs to do that too. It would be madness to still have IMP minibuses on the 123 or CitySwift single decks on the 39. There is now a proper timebable on the routes, but more importantly, there are proper sized vehicles, meaning you're sure to get on when the bus does arrive.

I would agree that the new 14 seems to be a success. Any bus I've noticed around the Tara Street area seems to have a good load of passengers staying on board going cross city.

LXFlyer

D14 wrote: »

I was on the 14 today, the live timetable in Rathmines was showing one due and one in 2 mins and another in 7 mins and this was only at 430 In the afternoon! The 14's becoming a super route!

qerty wrote: »

I was in rathmines recently at 1pm and quite a few 14's were passing by in either direction! Really seemed to be more 14's than one every 20 minutes! Seems to be working very well so far

CIE wrote: »

Wonder how long that will last. Dublin Bus seems to have increased and decreased bus service in waves on a lot of routes, starting with CitySwift and City Imp. Waiting for the subsequent wave of service decreases...

KD345 wrote: »

More like they change service levels to reflect passenger demand. Dublin constantly changes and the bus service needs to do that too. It would be madness to still have IMP minibuses on the 123 or CitySwift single decks on the 39. There is now a proper timebable on the routes, but more importantly, there are proper sized vehicles, meaning you're sure to get on when the bus does arrive.

I would agree that the new 14 seems to be a success. Any bus I've noticed around the Tara Street area seems to have a good load of passengers staying on board going cross city.

Despite all the fears expressed here the 14 does appear to be working well so far. This is primarily because the frequency has been maintained at the combined frequency level of the 14 and 14a. In the afternoon and evenings it is increased to reflect the higher frequency on the old 20b from the city northbound.

Therefore the frequency from Dundrum between 1600 and 1700 is every 10 minutes - that is to provide a 10 minute frequency northbound between 1645 and 1745 from Eden Quay - that's when the higher number of buses is really noticeable. It sounds like one bus was running a bit late for two buses to be within 2 minutes of one another.

The overall schedule delivers a far better service throughout the day than was there before - particularly in the evenings south of the Liffey.

And I'd have to concur, from what I've seen loadings are very good on the 14 - I don't think the schedule will be cut back anytime soon.

AlekSmart

Lxflyer :The overall schedule delivers a far better service throughout the day than was there before - particularly in the evenings south of the Liffey.

And I'd have to concur, from what I've seen loadings are very good on the 14 - I don't think the schedule will be cut back anytime soon.

Fingers crossed so far,and the acid test comes when the schools,with their assorted motorised divisions,return.

The real challenge for Dublin Bus is to be quick to realize when they have a success on their hands and then to be equally quick to build upon it.

The company now has the internal mechanisms in place which allows for a much swifter (:)) response to prevailing conditions.

This should be utilized to it's maximum along with a far more focused marketing and route specific publicity campaign.

If the 14 is working well then get that message out there along it's catchment area,don't just sit back and assume that everybody will know.
Traditionally,Dublin Bus has not been great at playing to it's strengths,it has tended to focus on it's weaknesses to a far greater degree,a tendency which hopefully has been abandoned.

There's plenty of business out there for stuff that works and it's surely in the City's own interest to maximize the efficiency of it's Bus Services.

If the 14/20b provides a template which works then the Network Direct team should be all-over it to measure exactly where and why it's working.
Then,it can attempt to transpose those factors onto those parts of Network Direct which are still not quite covered in glory.

From my perspective it's very very simple,in public transport terms.....Frequency Sells...every time

backboiler

Telchak wrote: »

Fixed it (: Although I'm having trouble figuring out what route the 140 will be extended by, and I wonder when >_>

Telchak, do you have definite information that the route south-bound from Glasanaon Road via Griffith Parade - Glasnamana Road - Tolka Estate - Old Finglas Road is as you have shown? Also what would the north-bound alignment be in that area? Will it also follow the current 19 track (Old Finglas Road - Tolka Estate - Griffith Road - Griffith Parade)?

Róisín Shortall's update a month or two ago suggested that Griffith Avenue would be used, meaning that it'd still pass the shops on Fitzmaurice Road (Glasanaon Road - Fitzmaurice Road - Ballygall Road East - Griffith Avenue - Tolka Estate - Old Finglas Road. This would definitely be an easier route because of the wider streets involved compared to the above routings and could be used in both directions.

I asked a driver on the 83 yesterday but luck-of-the-draw it was his second day on the job and he hadn't a notion .

Conway635

Yes, frequency - and consistency.

A problem with the old Ballinteer timetables was that throughout the evenings you had a 14, 14A and 48A leaving town within 10 minutes of each other, followed by a 40 minute gap.

Increasing the range of connections also helps - Rathmines to Busarus, Fairview to Dundrum etc.

For a long time after the 54/20 routes lost their cross-city sections, the only place it was possible to get by bus from fairview/North Strand was Marlborough Street (if you were lucky - or Talbot Street if a 27 came along).

Just look at the loadings on the 128 northbound at Suffolk Street, or how many people hold back to wait for a 128 (and now 14 too) along North Strand.

A further suggestion of mine would be to link up the 54A with the 53 (renumbering as 54) opening up different cross-city options from North Strand, and boosting the 53, which is currently unattractive, particularly outbound, due to it's marginal penetration of the city centre. This would remove two further routes from central termini, and assuming that they plan to reduce the 54A frequency slightly, they would be a good fit.

(Declaration of interest: I live in East Wall).

C635

KD345

It's interesting reading the comments of how successful the cross city routes are, yet the one change which I don't really agree with is the decision to split the 2 and 3 in half. I really think it's a mistake. They just need to sort out the timetable whereby a 2 and 3 travel in together to Belfield then leaving a massive gap. There is enough demand and potential here to continue this service.

I would like to see the 2 run from Santry to Belfield, and the 3 run between Larkhill and Belfield. Each bus could still have the proposed hourly frequency on the northside, but combined it would give the southside a 30 minute frequency, while offering Larkhill/Shanard Road greater connections than just Mountjoy Square.

AlekSmart

KD345 wrote: »

It's interesting reading the comments of how successful the cross city routes are, yet the one change which I don't really agree with is the decision to split the 2 and 3 in half. I really think it's a mistake. They just need to sort out the timetable whereby a 2 and 3 travel in together to Belfield then leaving a massive gap. There is enough demand and potential here to continue this service.

I would like to see the 2 run from Santry to Belfield, and the 3 run between Larkhill and Belfield. Each bus could still have the proposed hourly frequency on the northside, but combined it would give the southside a 30 minute frequency, while offering Larkhill/Shanard Road greater connections than just Mountjoy Square.

As an aside,I would also run either of these routes via a Gardiner St/Memorial Road/Matt Talbot Bridge/City Quay alignment as I believe the removal of all DB trunk routes from that alignment has not helped the Street's attempts to retain a commercial life.

There comes a point at which some attempt has to be made at drawing people further from the accepted comfort zones...even if only to disprove a theory !!

Conway635

Alek is right about drawing people away from the current O'Connell St alignment.

We have to accept that the time has long since come when Dublin as a city has grown out of the simple "everything to or through one place" layout that our city services have had for some time.

As the city and its networks grow, we need to look more towards the model we see in London, where there are lots of routes penetrating the centre, but they do not all follow identical alignments.

Apart from relieving congestion on O'Connell Street, we need to be expanding the commercial centre of the city, and one way of doing this is by having the lifeblood of buses and waiting passengers on a greater variety of streets.

In addition to Gardiner Street, I would also argue that Parnell Street (the western end) and Capel Street could and should be used for a couple of southbound services.

Also, more services via Westland Row outbound. There is ready-made interchange with DART there, yet it only functions in one direction.

I see greater use of prepaid tickets as a key here, we need to have people comfortable with the concept of changing between frequent routes in the city centre so that even if you are on a route that does not go to the exact place you want, it is easy to change to another when you are close to the centre.

C635

thomasj

Guys I don't know if you have noticed but a bus stop (no head yet) has gone up further down arran quay beside AIB (halfway between queen street and church street bridges)

Looks like the problematic bus stop at the church street junction is finally being dealt with

CIE

AlekSmart wrote: »

As an aside,I would also run either of these routes via a Gardiner St/Memorial Road/Matt Talbot Bridge/City Quay alignment as I believe the removal of all DB trunk routes from that alignment has not helped the Street's attempts to retain a commercial life.

There comes a point at which some attempt has to be made at drawing people further from the accepted comfort zones...even if only to disprove a theory !!

Think the 41/B/C could do with being returned to two-way running on Gardiner Street as well, or would that be just too much to ask...?

Telchak

backboiler wrote: »

Telchak, do you have definite information that the route south-bound from Glasanaon Road via Griffith Parade - Glasnamana Road - Tolka Estate - Old Finglas Road is as you have shown? Also what would the north-bound alignment be in that area? Will it also follow the current 19 track (Old Finglas Road - Tolka Estate - Griffith Road - Griffith Parade)?

Róisín Shortall's update a month or two ago suggested that Griffith Avenue would be used, meaning that it'd still pass the shops on Fitzmaurice Road (Glasanaon Road - Fitzmaurice Road - Ballygall Road East - Griffith Avenue - Tolka Estate - Old Finglas Road. This would definitely be an easier route because of the wider streets involved compared to the above routings and could be used in both directions.

I asked a driver on the 83 yesterday but luck-of-the-draw it was his second day on the job and he hadn't a notion .

Think you're right on that one, just had a look at the map on Dublin Bus website again. Fixed my map accordingly

Dub13

CIE wrote: »

Think the 41/B/C could do with being returned to two-way running on Gardiner Street as well, or would that be just too much to ask...?

Were they not taken out because of the bad tailbacks.....?That would be a step back IMO,no bus priority at all on Gardiner st.

AlekSmart

thomasj wrote: »

Guys I don't know if you have noticed but a bus stop (no head yet) has gone up further down arran quay beside AIB (halfway between queen street and church street bridges)

Looks like the problematic bus stop at the church street junction is finally being dealt with

Tis true indeed Thomasj.

After a considerable amount of pointing out the bleedin obvious to various managers,assistant managers,deputy managers and their PA's it was finally agreed to have a risk assessment carried out on the "Problematic" stop in question.

Needless to say,the Risk Assessor took one look and ran away holding his head in his hands screaming for brandy...

It was never in doubt,and the delay in reverting back to the sensible original stop location evaporated as soon as the risk assessment appeared in print.

Hopefully somebody will be appointed to ensure this dangerous nonsense is'nt repeated...:)

D14

Maybe an even crazier idea would be to run the 41's and 33 to merrion square vi gardiner street, (both directions), matt Talbot bridge, city quay and Westland row? Providing the swords road with (good) dart interchange and also connections to the busy merrion square area and bus interchange

Dyr

Apart from relieving congestion on O'Connell Street, we need to be expanding the commercial centre of the city, and one way of doing this is by having the lifeblood of buses and waiting passengers on a greater variety of streets.

There is no congestion on O'Connell Street these day's. Dublin bus is there to meet the needs of people who are actually paying for these services. It's not a resource for amateur social engineers who want to impose their schemes of how things should be on the city

dfx-

Bambi wrote: »

There is no congestion on O'Connell Street these day's. Dublin bus is there to meet the needs of people who are actually paying for these services. It's not a resource for amateur social engineers who want to impose their schemes of how things should be on the city

Do the people paying order the buses down the same corridor or do they go where Dublin Bus decides is appropriate? What choice do they have, DB goes down the one street. Im willing to guess that if DB went to a street that wasn't O'Connell St but closer to their destination that they would get that bus instead of going down O'Connell St.

Perhaps just perhaps, they arrive at O'Connell St from and head to...wait for it....other parts of the city :eek:

AlekSmart

Bambi wrote: »

There is no congestion on O'Connell Street these day's. Dublin bus is there to meet the needs of people who are actually paying for these services. It's not a resource for amateur social engineers who want to impose their schemes of how things should be on the city

Amateur they/we may well be Bambi,but there's more than a hint of reality behind what's being suggested.

A brief stroll from The Rotunda down along Parnell St as far as Church Street will reveal a densely populated resedential area with (Gasp!) commercial premises actually trading.

What such a brief stroll will also reveal is a wide segregated dual-carriageway with plenty of capacity to handle Public Transport,yet with all of this in its favour it remains TOTALLY devoid of any service whatever.

Interestingly enough on my own O Connell St routed service I would regularly have enquiries for Maplins electronic store,Smyths Toy Shop,that old reliable,Lenihans of Capel St as well as the DIT Bolton Street College,all of which,taken together, could be seen as being capable of supporting some form of Public Transport service.

On the opposite side of OC St,Busaras is perhaps the most often enquired after location which along with Connolly Station could do with a somewhat better nod from Cross-City services even allowing for the new 14 alignment.

The fact is that we currently bring a significant number of people into O Connell St who then immediately head down along Henry St/Mary St or on the opposite side Talbot St to get to the very locations we avoid....

The Parnell St/Domnic St/Capel St (Italian Quarter) Bolton St/King St routing is particularly interesting as I see it being full of what a viable public transport system needs...PEOPLE...why are we studiously avoiding them...bizzarre does'nt go half way to describing it ...

Whilst I'd agree that O Connell St congestion is far less than heretofore,I'd also suspend judgement until after School Term restarts with a nod in the direction of just how suddenly the Eden Quay/O Connell Bridge junction can suddenly go pear shaped especially if the O2/Riverside is open for business.

The almost total lack of Garda interest in this particular Liffey/City crossing is another Bizzarre element of things as it remains one of the most strategic of city crossings yet also most likely to suffer from "Whats them Yella-Box Things For ??" syndrome each evening ..:rolleyes:

So please don't lay into the interested amateur,whilst glumly accepting the diktat's of Dublin's gifted professionals who preside over stuff like it's Taxi ranks....:o

qerty

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/Network-Direct-Phase-2/BallymunClondalkin/
Revised proposals for Clondalkin/Ballymun.



Ballymun/Clondalkin
Thursday, August 25, 2011
Dublin Bus would like to thank customers for feedback received during the consultation phase of Network Direct. Dublin Bus is pleased to announce revised proposals for services in Ballymun and North Clondalkin as part of Network Direct. These service changes cover the following existing routes and will be implemented in September 2011.

Ballymun: 4/13/13a/17a/220
Clondalkin: 51/51b/51c/68/69/76/76a/76b/151/210

Key enhancements include the retention of route 220 which will be extended to terminate in Coultry and a local daytime service (Route 221) connecting Silogue and Coultry to Ballymun Town Centre.

What does Network Direct mean for you?
Implementation will commence in September 2011 on a phased basis which will provide the Ballymun and Clondalkin areas with more direct, high frequency and punctual bus services with improved cross city connections. Please note route 151 and Xpresso services are not included on the map. There is no change proposed to route 151 with minor timetable adjustments proposed route 51d, 51x and 69x.

Quicker journey times
Quicker journey times to key destinations including O'Connell Street, Dame Street, Christchurch, St. James's Hospital.

High frequency services
Route 13 will have peak weekday frequencies of 12 minutes or better.

Improved connections for customers.
Route 13/a and 51b/c will be amalgamated and operate as route 13. It will provide a high frequency cross city connection between Ballymun and Clondalkin via Balbutcher Lane, DCU, Drumcondra, O'Connell Street, Dame Street, St. James's Hospital, Inchicore, Naas Road, Woodford, Clondalkin Village and Bawnogue.

Route 76 will operate from Tallaght Square to Chapelizod via Clondalkin Village, Neilstown, Liffey Valley SC and Ballyfermot Road.

Route 76a will operate from Tallaght Square to Blanchardstown Centre via Neilstown, Liffey Valley, N4 and M50.

Route 68 will operate to the city centre (Hawkins Street) via Cherrywood, Clondalkin Village, Monastery Road, Inchicore, Bulfin Road, South Circular Road, Camden Street and Dame Street.

Route 69 will operate to the city centre (Hawkins Street) from Rathcoole via St John’s Wood, Clondalkin Village, Monastery Road, Inchicore, Con Colbert Road, Parkgate Street and Dame Street.

Routes 51 & 210 will no longer operate.

Routes 4, 17a & 151 will remain unchanged.

Routes 51d, 51x and 69x will continue to operate with some minor alignment and timetable changes.

Route Improvements
Route 13 will operate from Harristown to Clondalkin (Grange Castle) via Balbutcher Lane, DCU, Drumcondra, Dorset Street, O'Connell Street, Dame Street, St. James's Hospital, Naas Road, Woodford, Clondalkin Village and Bawnogue. This will provide a much improved cross city connection from both Ballymun and Clondalkin. Journey times will now be significantly improved with trips to/from the city centre from Ballymun no longer operating via the Silogue and Coultry loops.

Route 17a is now more direct and operates from Kilbarrack via Ballymun to The Blanchardstown Centre. It operates every 10 minutes at peak times toward The Blanchardstown Centre in the mornings with a 20 minute service throughout the day.

Route 76 will offer an all day connection between Tallaght, Clondalkin, Neilstown, Liffey Valley, Ballyfermot and Chapelizod.

Route 76a will offer an all day connection between Tallaght, Clondalkin, Neilstown, Liffey Valley, and Blanchardstown.

Route 68/a will offer improved connections to the south east of the city operating via South Circular Road and Camden Street to the city centre (Hawkins Street).

Route 69 will continue to operate to the city centre on its current alignment.

Timetable Changes
All timetables will be redesigned so that they will be easier to understand. Please note that new timetables read from left to right and then line by line as in a book or magazine. Weekdays are given their own column separated by colour. All routes will now have stop-specific departure times at selected locations for e.g. Route 13 will have specific departure times from D’Olier Street and Parnell Square West making it easier to plan your journey.


Service Frequencies (Estimates)
Route Peak Off Peak
4 15 15
13 12 15
17a 10 20
68/a 30 60
69 60 60
76 20 30
151 15 20
220 90 90
221 on demand





Only difference from the previous proposals is that the 220 will be retained and route 221 will connect silogue/coultry to Ballymun town centre.
Unfortunately, no map has been provided (yet) nor have any routing details been given for the 220/221 (yet).

Also, the 76a has not been given a frequency in this proposal, is it a mistake? Will the combined frequency of the 76/a be 20 peak/30 off-peak (I think so) or is the 76 itself going to have this frequency with the 76a having the same/different?

CIE

Routes 51d, 51x and 69x will continue to operate with some minor alignment and timetable changes

OK, why the former two? They'll be the only ones bearing the number 51 in some form, thus being a vestige of the former route(s)...how come the 51X can't become the 13X if it's really going to be part of the 13, and why won't the 51D get a unique number as well as a possible local version?

qerty

CIE wrote: »

OK, why the former two? They'll be the only ones bearing the number 51 in some form, thus being a vestige of the former route(s)...how come the 51X can't become the 13X if it's really going to be part of the 13, and why won't the 51D get a unique number as well as a possible local version?

Well I would disagree with a 13x when that route would be completely different to the 13's route. At the end of the day this route (51X) will only be operating as far as CC when the 13 is a cross city route. Even the route from clondalkin to the CC is different. (I also extend this sentiment to the 40d retaining that number when the 40 will be quite different. Rename it the 34 or something) So even renaming the 51D the 51 and having the 51x retain its current number would even improve the situation.

To avoid confusion on the current 51 being removed and replaced by a new 51 (as happened with the 19 being axed and the 19a being renamed the 19) DB could use a little white lie and announce that the 51/d are being amalgamated as the 51 (while in reality having the 51d alignment). Well....it's not really a lie but it's all down to the way the changes are announced

Renumbering may occur at the end of the network direct project (this has been stated many times on this thread) and suggestions such as yours, mine or others may come to fruition.

CIE

qerty wrote: »

Well I would disagree with a 13x when that route would be completely different to the 13's route. At the end of the day this route (51X) will only be operating as far as CC when the 13 is a cross city route. Even the route from clondalkin to the CC is different. (I also extend this sentiment to the 40d retaining that number when the 40 will be quite different. Rename it the 34 or something) So even renaming the 51D the 51 and having the 51x retain its current number would even improve the situation.

To avoid confusion on the current 51 being removed and replaced by a new 51 (as happened with the 19 being axed and the 19a being renamed the 19) DB could use a little white lie and announce that the 51/d are being amalgamated as the 51 (while in reality having the 51d alignment). Well....it's not really a lie but it's all down to the way the changes are announced

Renumbering may occur at the end of the network direct project (this has been stated many times on this thread) and suggestions such as yours, mine or others may come to fruition.

Well frankly, the 51X will indeed be part of the 13 insofar as being mostly parallel to the local route. One trip each way wouldn't so difficult to absorb into the 13...and if one really wants to be pedantic, then extend this new 13X to Ballymun in either direction via the Port Tunnel and Santry Avenue to make it a "true" express branch of the new 13 (and if you really want to go to Belfield, then give a free transfer to the 39A; ugh, still can't think of that as the Belfield bus).

Absolutely agree about a dedicated un-suffixed number for the 40D, which is not truly a branch of the 40 and never was. (Of course, if you use the route number 34, then people might be expecting it to run via Botanic Road and Ballygall Road East...which wouldn't be a bad idea since it appears that no bus will be serving that road anymore and I don't know why.)