Dublin Bus Network Review

dfx-

Anyone know who'll be operating the new shiny terrible 13 yet? All Harristown or (hopefully) a mix of C/Rd and Harristown ala the 14 with Summerhill and Donnybrook..?

Even better (and least likely), all C/Rd...

LXFlyer

dfx- wrote: »

Anyone know who'll be operating the new shiny terrible 13 yet? All Harristown or (hopefully) a mix of C/Rd and Harristown ala the 14 with Summerhill and Donnybrook..?

Even better (and least likely), all C/Rd...

The 13/51, 40/78a, 15/128, 27/77 and 27b/79 will all be operated by a mix of the two depots currently operating the routes.

thomasj

CIE wrote: »

OK, why the former two? They'll be the only ones bearing the number 51 in some form, thus being a vestige of the former route(s)...how come the 51X can't become the 13X if it's really going to be part of the 13, and why won't the 51D get a unique number as well as a possible local version?

I think the 151 should be renamed the 51

Dyr

qerty wrote: »

Key enhancements include the retention of route 220 which will be extended to terminate in Coultry and a local daytime service (Route 221) connecting Silogue and Coultry to Ballymun Town Centre.


High frequency services
Route 13 will have peak weekday frequencies of 12 minutes or better.

Oddly enough they touted a local service back when they axed the 36/A but instead sent the 13/A down coultry and silloge respectively, which never worked. if this 221 is frequent and connects with the 13/A well it could work

Someone should point out to network direct that the 13/A's current frequency is 12 minutes already

LXFlyer

CIE wrote: »

Absolutely agree about a dedicated un-suffixed number for the 40D, which is not truly a branch of the 40 and never was. (Of course, if you use the route number 34, then people might be expecting it to run via Botanic Road and Ballygall Road East...which wouldn't be a bad idea since it appears that no bus will be serving that road anymore and I don't know why.)

I suspect that people (other than yourself) would cope with the 34 being used as you would appear to be the only person totally fixated by old routings and bus numbers. People can cope with change surprisingly well you may find.

And you are (not for the first time) incorrect. Both Botanic Road and Ballygall Road East will still be served by the 83. It will operate outbound via Botanic Road, Old Finglas Road, Tolka Estate, Griffith Avenue, Ballygall Road East, Fitzmaurice Road and onto Glasanaon Road.

Given the 40D replaced the 40c in Finglas South and West and that it shared the exact same routing as the 40 from the city centre to Tolka Valley Road, and had buses/drivers integrated with the 40/40a I would suggest in fact that it certainly was and is a branch of the 40.

bk

Anyone know if they plan to continue routing the 13/a down Griffith Avenue or change it to Home Farm Road as originally proposed?

LXFlyer

13 will use Griffith Avenue.

Home Farm Road is covered by the retention of the 11.

bk

Thanks lxflyer, makes perfect sense, both streets end up with a service.

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

Thanks lxflyer, makes perfect sense, both streets end up with a service.

Spot on bk,which begs the question why did DB expend so much time,energy and scarce resources on the original thoroughly nonsensical plan for this area.

It's now more apparent than ever that the initial thrust of Network Direct was entirely wrong.....The involvement of the Passengers and prospective passengers should have been the launching pad for the changes.

Thankfully,as demonstrated by the fruitful outcomes of some of the initial "Roadshows" this outlandish notion appears to have been grasped to a degree.

It's going to take longer than anticipated,but I do believe Network Direct combined with the other non-DB elements such as RTPI,on street facilities and a bit more active traffic planning will pay dividends.

honru

I'm very satisfied with the Network Direct changes so far. Was just thinking, what phases or changes have yet to be implemented? I remember hearing proposals ages ago to extend the 18 to the Docklands.

D14

any idea of the proposed changes to the 17? hopefully they will extend it to heuston (ucd-heuston link?), the loadings are going to go up too in the rathfarnham-churchtown area with the abandonment of the 16a because of the large amount of kids going to school in terenure

honru

I guess UCD already has a link with Heuston with the 145. How about if the 17 skipped Roebuck Road/Bird Avenue/Dundrum Road and went down Mount Anville Road/Taney Road instead?

LXFlyer

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

I'm very satisfied with the Network Direct changes so far. Was just thinking, what phases or changes have yet to be implemented? I remember hearing proposals ages ago to extend the 18 to the Docklands.

We are about halfway through - there have been 8 phases so far (including this weekend) and there's roughly that if not a few more left in terms of implementation.

It all depends on how they group the changes together.

But to me it looks like (in no particular order):

Templeogue QBC and 140 - This would include the 128 also
Ballymun and Clondalkin QBCs
Ballyfermot and Finglas QBCs
Swords Road and Terenure/Rathfarnham, along with Sandymount
Malahide Road and Crumlin Road QBCs (this could be split up)
Howth Road QBC
Ballyfermot and Malahide Road (79/27b)

After that there are all the orbital routes, and local routes that don't go near the city centre.

At a frequency of one major set of changes every 2 weeks, that will bring us up to the end of November or so.

Cool Mo D

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

I guess UCD already has a link with Heuston with the 145. How about if the 17 skipped Roebuck Road/Bird Avenue/Dundrum Road and went down Mount Anville Road/Taney Road instead?

UCD is the routes bread and butter though. It could go your route if it went up and down the N11 over the UCD flyover and back.

patrickbrophy18

I am still at a loss as to why the 45, 7 and 8 operate via Blackrock Village on their northbound route. The right-hand filter turn is abysmally slow as is the section along the Main Street/Carysfort Avenue. This usually takes 10 minutes to get through. Effectively, the routing alignments along this portion defeat the whole purpose of having a Dual Carriageway parallel to it. The number 4 bus is the only city bound route which operates on the entire Dual Carriageway from Rowan Park and Monkstown Road without time-consuming meandering. The hilarious thing is that the DART station is less than a quarter of a mile from the stops along this stretch bar the stop opposite Seapoint Avenue. Ideally, the bus stops in Blackrock Village should only be used for feeder buses to and from the station. The 45, 7 and 8 could do with taking a leaf out of the 46A's book.

stop

Cool Mo D wrote: »

UCD is the routes bread and butter though. It could go your route if it went up and down the N11 over the UCD flyover and back.

Well I assume the poster meant to keep its existing route to the junction of roebuck road, the the section through ucd would be retained. Always hoped it would go straight over mount anville<especially on Fridays!> but with the removal of the 11a that would leave roebuck road without a service.

D14

Maybe the 17 could go via vincents hospital, nutley lane, UCD flyover, fosters ave, mountanville, Taney road, upper churchtown road, braemor road and dodder park road? And then continued on to heuston via st. James hospital, all the ambulances from the churchtown, rathfarmham and terenure go to james hospital

schemingbohemia

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I am still at a loss as to why the 45, 7 and 8 operate via Blackrock Village on their northbound route. The right-hand filter turn is abysmally slow as is the section along the Main Street/Carysfort Avenue. This usually takes 10 minutes to get through. Effectively, the routing alignments along this portion defeat the whole purpose of having a Dual Carriageway parallel to it. The number 4 bus is the only city bound route which operates on the entire Dual Carriageway from Rowan Park and Monkstown Road without time-consuming meandering. The hilarious thing is that the DART station is less than a quarter of a mile from the stops along this stretch bar the stop opposite Seapoint Avenue. Ideally, the bus stops in Blackrock Village should only be used for feeder buses to and from the station. The 45, 7 and 8 could do with taking a leaf out of the 46A's book.

It's definitely at odds with the 46a re-routing away from Stillorgan SC and Monkstown Farm and from other elements of Network Direct. The amount of red light sequences I sat on a 7 (when living in Monkstown) in Blackrock Village was huge and a total head-wrecker. Sometimes I was tempted to hop off, go get a coffee in Insomnia and stroll up to the stop outside Marks & Spencer and get back on the same bus!

On a plus point the re-routing of the 14 was of benefit to me this morning when I got off the Dart at Tara Street to get a 128, I just missed one and a few seconds later a 14 came around the corner and I scampered to the next stop just in time to get it.

honru

Well I assume the poster meant to keep its existing route to the junction of roebuck road, the the section through ucd would be retained.

Yep that's what I meant.

Maybe the 17 could go via vincents hospital, nutley lane, UCD flyover, fosters ave, mountanville, Taney road, upper churchtown road, braemor road and dodder park road? And then continued on to heuston via st. James hospital, all the ambulances from the churchtown, rathfarmham and terenure go to james hospital

If that means skipping Blackrock then it would lose out on the feeder service from the DART station in Blackrock, as well as Blackrock itself, to UCD. If Blackrock was to be retained I feel this would make an already long route even longer...

+1 to nixing the Northbound Blackrock Village detour. And a very good point that the serving routes already run between two DART stations.

CIE

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I am still at a loss as to why the 45, 7 and 8 operate via Blackrock Village on their northbound route. The right-hand filter turn is abysmally slow as is the section along the Main Street/Carysfort Avenue. This usually takes 10 minutes to get through. Effectively, the routing alignments along this portion defeat the whole purpose of having a Dual Carriageway parallel to it. The number 4 bus is the only city bound route which operates on the entire Dual Carriageway from Rowan Park and Monkstown Road without time-consuming meandering. The hilarious thing is that the DART station is less than a quarter of a mile from the stops along this stretch bar the stop opposite Seapoint Avenue. Ideally, the bus stops in Blackrock Village should only be used for feeder buses to and from the station. The 45, 7 and 8 could do with taking a leaf out of the 46A's book.

All through-operating bus service on Main Street/Rock Hill et cetera should have ceased when the dual carriageway opened, I agree. Of course, what with cutting the 45 all the way back to Merrion Square, the powers that be at Number 59 aren't worried about its performance as a through route, it seems. (Further south in Cabinteely, I always wondered why they were too cheap back then when they built the by-pass to build an overpass for Clonkeen Road instead of re-routing it; would have made things far easier in terms of getting in and out of the village instead of having to cross the dual carriageway at a traffic light.)

LXFlyer

I'd probably leave one (through there) similar to the 84 in Stillorgan Village.

Now which one - maybe the 45?

Conway635

The 45 would be the ideal one, as it connects to inland areas that don't have a DART link to Blackrock village, and you won't be using it if you were in a hurry to the city centre either.

C635

CIE

Conway635 wrote: »

The 45 would be the ideal one, as it connects to inland areas that don't have a DART link to Blackrock village, and you won't be using it if you were in a hurry to the city centre either

Now if Route 113 were still running...remember the 113? the DART feeder between Blackrock and Cabinteely, running the same route as the 45 except for the termini? Quite frequent from what I remember. Came out a little while after the 111 was established, and with similar frequencies to the old 111, i.e. ten-minute frequencies during peak and twenty-minute frequencies off-peak.

(Funny how the through route proposed for Blackrock village is similar to the through route for Stillorgan village and doesn't reach the city centre. I also have noted that a Luas feeder is a harder sell than a DART feeder...)

D14

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

Well I assume the poster meant to keep its existing route to the junction of roebuck road, the the section through ucd would be retained.

Yep that's what I meant.

Maybe the 17 could go via vincents hospital, nutley lane, UCD flyover, fosters ave, mountanville, Taney road, upper churchtown road, braemor road and dodder park road? And then continued on to heuston via st. James hospital, all the ambulances from the churchtown, rathfarmham and terenure go to james hospital

If that means skipping Blackrock then it would lose out on the feeder service from the DART station in Blackrock, as well as Blackrock itself, to UCD. If Blackrock was to be retained I feel this would make an already long route even longer...

+1 to nixing the Northbound Blackrock Village detour. And a very good point that the serving routes already run between two DART stations.

Sydney parade dart station is 2 minutes away from St. Vincents

qerty

CIE wrote: »

Well frankly, the 51X will indeed be part of the 13 insofar as being mostly parallel to the local route. One trip each way wouldn't so difficult to absorb into the 13...and if one really wants to be pedantic, then extend this new 13X to Ballymun in either direction via the Port Tunnel and Santry Avenue to make it a "true" express branch of the new 13 (and if you really want to go to Belfield, then give a free transfer to the 39A; ugh, still can't think of that as the Belfield bus).

Absolutely agree about a dedicated un-suffixed number for the 40D, which is not truly a branch of the 40 and never was. (Of course, if you use the route number 34, then people might be expecting it to run via Botanic Road and Ballygall Road East...which wouldn't be a bad idea since it appears that no bus will be serving that road anymore and I don't know why.)

That's ridiculous. The 51X is paralell to the 13 (well, will be)! That's like saying the 78a should be a part of the 25 series as it runs parallel with those routes from Ballyfermot onwards!

If that was the case, the argument about the 25a/b would not have even surfaced as they have 8 stops in the difference. Bit silly to one minute argue that routes should be seperated into totally seperate numbers and that the 25a/b should be seperated from the 25 and yet argue that a PARALELL route be absorbed into the 13.

You can't argue for a consistent spproach from DB when your arguments are not equally consistent.

CIE

qerty wrote: »

That's ridiculous. The 51X is paralell to the 13 (well, will be)! That's like saying the 78a should be a part of the 25 series as it runs parallel with those routes from Ballyfermot onwards!

If that was the case, the argument about the 25a/b would not have even surfaced as they have 8 stops in the difference. Bit silly to one minute argue that routes should be seperated into totally seperate numbers and that the 25a/b should be seperated from the 25 and yet argue that a PARALELL route be absorbed into the 13.

You can't argue for a consistent spproach from DB when your arguments are not equally consistent.

So...I'm still trying to find your refutation in that mess of argumentum ad hominem of yours. Since the former 51 series of routes will become part of route 13, not having the 51X become the 13X is yet illogical. Should an express version of the 42 be numbered as the 99X or something? You've completely missed the point about the un-affixed version of the route number no longer being extant once the 13 starts running to Clondalkin. If the 51/B/C becomes the 13, then the Xpresso version has to become the 13X. No inconsistency there at all.

And actually, if there were a 78X running to/from Ballyfermot, it would have to become the 40X. You are utterly wrong about the 25/A/B being parallel with the 78A, BTW; there is no parallel running on the same corridor (I did not say parallel corridors, but parallel routes; please read a bit more critically next time).

Edit: The 51D was always a separate route from the 51/B/C/X; I have no idea how it got named after the 51 series, what with running via the N4 corridor versus the N7 corridor and being a unique routing completely different from any traditional route in the vicinity. That's the route that needs its own number, and frankly, it has made me curious as to why there never was a bus from the N4 running between the city centre and Clondalkin via Palmerstown (never mind from Clondalkin village to the city centre via Ballyfermot).

BenShermin

Anybody popping out for a farewell to the 19 this evening;)?

Citygirl1

Does anyone have a further update as to when the 78A will actually be changing to 40 and becoming cross city? (Network direct notice has not been updated since 21st October 2010:rolleyes:).

My main interest in this is that following the change, this route will move to serving D'Olier St, Dame Street etc, which would be consistent with the 51b/c (soon to be 13).

For almost almost a year now we've had the routes serving James St, Kilmainham and Inchicore leaving the city from completely different points (51b/c from Hawkins St, 78A from the Quays) - totally inefficient.

honru

Citygirl1 wrote: »

For almost almost a year now we've had the routes serving James St, Kilmainham and Inchicore leaving the city from completely different points (51b/c from Hawkins St, 78A from the Quays) - totally inefficient.

On a similar note one thing that bothers me is that the 39A doesn't serve D'Olier Street, close enough to the stop that serves the 46A and 145. For those of us who live on the stretches that the all these routes share, as well as those wanting to go to UCD, it's annoying to see one pass by when it would be a perfectly valid way of getting to these places.

CIE

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

On a similar note one thing that bothers me is that the 39A doesn't serve D'Olier Street, close enough to the stop that serves the 46A and 145. For those of us who live on the stretches that the all these routes share, as well as those wanting to go to UCD, it's annoying to see one pass by when it would be a perfectly valid way of getting to these places.

Why is the stop on College Street at all? I seem to remember the 10 stopping on D'Olier, especially since College Street had the terminus for several bus routes. Has it helped or hurt to have the bus that operates directly into Belfield no longer stop on O'Connell Street as well?

For my part, I'm one of those that remembers the 14 going to Phoenix Park. Maybe the 14 should have returned to the Phoenix Park, and the bus to Dún Laoghaire via Stillorgan should have been amalgamated with the 20B while calling the amalgamated route the 20...?? :rolleyes: