Dublin Bus Network Review

AlekSmart

Boulevardier wrote: »

I was at the Terenure roadshow. There was no consultation beyond a suggestions form. That is not a public consultation. DB had absolutely no consultative basis whatever for changing the route of the 161.

It's interesting M.Boulevardier that your misquote of the 161 should be still appropriate here..:)

The route you seek is the 61 which was orignially touted as serving the Churchtown Road/Rathmines/City Centre corridor.

This,I felt,was quite an acceptable ND innovation and had the capability to be developed into something worthwhile.

However,somewhere in between,an as yet unknown hand took hold of the tiller and as a result the 61 rather last minutedly took on the mantle of the Living Dead....the 48A.

The official reason appears to be connected with "Streamlining" the 44 and integrating its timetable with the 61 to give a generally improved service on the "traditional" Dundrum corridor.

Put mildly,it's a load of cobblers.

Between the line readers will hark back to a famous quote from a now-retired Local Representative upon hearing of the plans some years ago to cancel the 48A...."Over my dead body".....I should add that although retired from Office,the gent concerned remains very much alive and can be oft seen strolling regally through his old "Patch"....watching the empty 61's whizz past...

But,such is politics...to return to the 161 story however,this route now rambles around like some bemused elderly relative at a funeral,recognizing nobody and being recognized by nobody in return.

It appears that DB had to embrace Dundrum LUAS in some tenuous way to satisfy "Offeeecial" needs for Integration of modes blah blah blah....and one way was to slap an oul 161 there every so often.

I would suggest that either the 161 be taken to hell outa Dundrum LUAS Interchange (:o) and instead routed down along the old 14A routing into An Lár,terminating down in the Empty Quarter (The Parnell Centre).

(It's worth noting the speed at which the Bus Only arrangements at LUAS Windy Arbour were obliterated and replaced by Drop-Off/Pick-Up markings...certainly amazed me anyway)

The 61,on the other hand might well find a few new passengers by stealing some of the route 17's thunder,operating via Dundrum LUAS Interchange (:o )-Taney Road-Roebuck Rd-UCD-Merrion Ave QBC-Terminating at Vincents Hospital/Merrion Centre.

This arrangement,I would suggest allows for far more synergy with the 17 than the 14 and perhaps this is whats required.

As it currently stands both the 61/161 are taking quite a bit of valuable and scarce resources which have the potential for better use elsewhere.

The Maverick

the groutch wrote: »

wish they would start removing some bus stops, they are generally too close together and slow things down.
3 roads local to me spring to mind (Abbey Road, Clonkeen Road, York Road)

Northumberland Road has a pair of stops that are barely 100 metres apart, the bus barely gets into second gear before it has to stop again. I think in some outer parts of the city e.g Ballsbridge/Drumcondra / Glasnevin, roughly every second stop could be removed.

ardmacha

The 61,on the other hand might well find a few new passengers by stealing some of the route 17's thunder,operating via Dundrum LUAS Interchange ( )-Taney Road-Roebuck Rd-UCD-Merrion Ave QBC-Terminating at Vincents Hospital/Merrion Centre.

Given that they want this Blue Line busway thing along much of this route, you would expect that there would be some business. Perhaps it could even terminate at a DART.

SparkyTech

Number 3 protests in Whitehall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so33qVpXmT4

CIE

At least those protesters have some backbone. Having the 3 run frequently will keep the 16, 33 and 41/B/C from overloading. (No use waiting for a Metro North that won't be built.)

I still like my idea of extending the 2 into Shanard Road, instead of creating an infrequent 3A. In Sandymount, have either the 2 or the 3 (whichever would be easier for passengers nowadays to understand) be the Belfield bus that bypasses St. John's Road/Church with the other terminating there. (Or maybe the 2 can run via Gilford Road and the 3 via Strand Road?)

Dub13

I don't have much sympathy for the residents of Larkhill and the fight to save the number 3.They are sandwiched between the Swords Road and the Ballymun Road so have IMO one of the best bus services in the country.The number 3 on the northside anyway (I don't know were it goes on the southside) is covered 95% by other routes,so its only the resident's one small estate who this effects,and as I said they already have a decent service.

the groutch

Dub13 wrote: »

I don't have much sympathy for the residents of Larkhill and the fight to save the number 3.They are sandwiched between the Swords Road and the Ballymun Road so have IMO one of the best buses services in the country.The number 3 on the northside anyway (I don't know were it goes on the southside) is covered 95% by other routes,so its only the resident's one small estate who this effects,and as I said they already have a decent service.

it's just the usual nimbyism, I tend not to take much notice

CIE

Dub13 wrote: »

The number 3 on the northside anyway (I don't know were it goes on the southside) is covered 95% by other routes, so it's only the resident's one small estate who this (a)ffects, and as I said they already have a decent service

No, it's also people on the Swords Road that will be affected, since their service will be cut too. You want to stuff more passengers onto the 16 and 41/B/C? They're not building Metro North (which would have, theoretically, "taken up the slack" by the reduction in bus service, and possibly have negated the need for any direct bus service to/from the Airport per government thinking). The 3 will be cut back to running hourly (which is half its current service); its current southside service (Sandymount and Belfield) will be replaced by the 2.

Don't forget that the 16 will be going to the airport instead of the 16A, so the people on Shanard Road (currently served by the 16) will have to deal with the far-less-frequent 3A (hourly, versus three times per hour on the current 16).

the groutch wrote: »

it's just the usual nimbyism, I tend not to take much notice

?? NIMBYism is the very opposite of what these protesters want. Remember that the N in NIMBY stands for "Not"? They want the bus service in their back yards (or adjacent to their front yards as the case may be).

Dub13

CIE wrote: »

No, it's also people on the Swords Road that will be affected, since their service will be cut too. You want to stuff more passengers onto the 16 and 41/B/C? They're not building Metro North (which would have, theoretically, "taken up the slack" by the reduction in bus service, and possibly have negated the need for any direct bus service to/from the Airport per government thinking). The 3 will be cut back to running hourly (which is half its current service); its current southside service (Sandymount and Belfield) will be replaced by the 2.

Well then whatever savings bus wise they make canceling the 3 they could put these buses onto the 16a,this way they will be used by many many more people.

The bottom line here is these are resident's of 1 or 2 estates lobbying for a bus thats not carrying to be kept on,now in an ideal world this could happen but times are tight.It must be no longer than 8/9 min walk max for these people to get to ether the Swords Road or the Ballymun Road,so its not as if they will be left with no bus.

CIE

Dub13 wrote: »

Well then whatever savings bus wise they make canceling the 3 they could put these buses onto the 16A, this way they will be used by many many more people.

The bottom line here is these are resident's of 1 or 2 estates lobbying for a bus thats not carrying to be kept on, now in an ideal world this could happen but times are tight. It must be no longer than 8/9 min walk max for these people to get to ether the Swords Road or the Ballymun Road,so its not as if they will be left with no bus.

They're cancelling the 16A as well and sending the 16 to the airport. Not to mention that perhaps by doing so they'll be putting too many buses onto the Swords Road through Santry and Collinstown? (Don't know if that'll make up for the never-implemented route 141, or if such a service that far north is desirable, but there you go.) It's one thing to say that there's a depressed market in one estate, but another to imply that a market exists further north on a main road that may not itself exist.

There's also the matter of accessibility, or so it's been put to me in other threads and forums. For those with accessibility issues, that eight or nine minutes it would take to walk to the corner of Swords Road and Collins Avenue could be exponentially far longer. It won't matter whether the bus that picks you up is low-floor, if you can't reach it in time; you could end up spending maybe 45 minutes trying to even reach one of the "frequent" buses. (Maybe a separate but valid issue could be whether or not Collins Avenue West/Collins Avenue Extension needs bus routes running to/from the city centre now that the Metro North has hit the Scharfenberg-coupler-stops?)

Dub13

CIE wrote: »

They're cancelling the 16A as well and sending the 16 to the airport. Not to mention that perhaps by doing so they'll be putting too many buses onto the Swords Road through Santry and Collinstown? (Don't know if that'll make up for the never-implemented route 141, or if such a service that far north is desirable, but there you go.) It's one thing to say that there's a depressed market in one estate, but another to imply that a market exists further north on a main road that may not itself exist.

They are not cutting any busses from the 16 just sending them all to the Airport,now you cannot say there is the same demand for buses in one mature estate than there is in the airport..?From my understanding the 16a is one of the only routes in the city that they could add more buses to.

I believe there is a gap in the morning of well over an hour in the airport going cross city,a couple of city center 16c.Hundreds of people waiting to get onto the southside and at the same time DB are pumping buses into the same estate and apparently only picking up a handful of people.

So yes I think its safe to say there is a market in the airport for more 16a buses.It must be very tempting to DB management to do this as without putting on 1 more bus they can double the number of departures from the airport were the demand is.

CIE wrote: »

There's also the matter of accessibility, or so it's been put to me in other threads and forums. For those with accessibility issues, that eight or nine minutes it would take to walk to the corner of Swords Road and Collins Avenue could be exponentially far longer. It won't matter whether the bus that picks you up is low-floor, if you can't reach it in time; you could end up spending maybe 45 minutes trying to even reach one of the "frequent" buses. (Maybe a separate but valid issue could be whether or not Collins Avenue West/Collins Avenue Extension needs bus routes running to/from the city centre now that the Metro North has hit the Scharfenberg-coupler-stops?)

I am not been cold hearted about this,I grew up a couple of miles down the road in Donnycarney and we had the same issue when they took the 20a away.Now the people moaned and got onto the TDs etc etc but in reality we did not need a bus right into the area as we were between the howth road and the malahide road.

On a side note but very relevant here,I think these pressure groups are barking up the wrong tree.DB management are reacting to the cut in numbers and I am sure a cut in Gov money.The day is long gone of the local FF TD ringing up and getting changes because he has a few votes in the area.I am sure the local FG TD will sign the petition and play the game with the locals while also voting to cut the subsidy CIE get.

qerty

There will be huge increase in the number of 16s! it will every 8 minutes at peak and ten minutes off peak! That should compensate for a reduced three and 16a cancellation quite well. not too mention the 41s and whatever the 33 will eventually be.

RichieD

Was anyone else fortunate enough to witness the 27/77 debacle this morning?

The drivers from the north side garage drove in as far as town and stopped the buses, since they didnt know 77 part of the new route. They had to wait for Ringsend drivers to come on board and direct them on the 77 route, or follow another 27 which already had director on board.

There were also dozens of customers standing at the old 77 bus stops from Ringsend to College green. None of the 27's were appearing on the RTI boards.

The new 27 bus stops weren't all marked in town. It was also quite a mystery where it was going to stop on hawkins street.

The drivers handled it well in fairness, just the lack of organization by Dublin managment is a ****ing joke.

KD345

RichieD wrote: »

Was anyone else fortunate enough to witness the 27/77 debacle this morning?

The drivers from the north side garage drove in as far as town and stopped the buses, since they didnt know 77 part of the new route. They had to wait for Ringsend drivers to come on board and direct them on the 77 route, or follow another 27 which already had director on board.

It's the first day of a new route, you have to allow a day or two for drivers to get used to it. Most drivers would have undergone route training, and the mentor is there to help direct drivers unfamiliar with certain parts of the city.

RichieD wrote: »

There were also dozens of customers standing at the old 77 bus stops from Ringsend to College green. None of the 27's were appearing on the RTI boards.

How do you know these passengers wanted a 77? All of these stops are served by other routes.

The 27 is showing on the online RTPI and on mobile apps. It takes 2/3 days for the screens to display new routes.

RichieD wrote: »

The new 27 bus stops weren't all marked in town. It was also quite a mystery where it was going to stop on hawkins street.

Which stops are not marked? Any stop I passed yesterday was updated. There is no mystery at all as to where the 27 stops on Hawkins Street. It's clearly displayed on stop 4495 (the same stop as the 51b/c/d, 68/a, 69/x).

RichieD wrote: »

The drivers handled it well in fairness, just the lack of organization by Dublin managment is a ****ing joke.

I don't agree with your criticism. What would you have done better?
Dublin Bus have updated stops with displays and timetables, passenger notices have been placed on stops affected, all buses are displaying the correct destination, they have announced these changes in the press, online, through social networks and with on street information.

The on street RTPI displays are not controlled by Dublin Bus, they're run by the NTA.

We all agree there were problems with the earlier phases of Network Direct, but I don't see any lack or orginisation with the changes yesterday.

RichieD

KD345 wrote: »

How do you know these passengers wanted a 77? All of these stops are served by other routes.

From the passengers that got on and told me they were standing at the other stop. Also telling me theres plently of others waiting at the wrong stop for the 77.

KD345 wrote: »

Which stops are not marked? Any stop I passed yesterday was updated. There is no mystery at all as to where the 27 stops on Hawkins Street. It's clearly displayed on stop 4495 (the same stop as the 51b/c/d, 68/a, 69/x).

Dame street for one. Although its possible my driver stopped at the wrong stop.

Perhaps this also caused my Hawkins street confusion, as the drivers were liteally stopping at the 3 different stops on the street, since they didnt know themselves. Seen this happen with 3 different 27's during my time at hawkins street.

KD345 wrote: »

I don't agree with your criticism. What would you have done better?

Maybe take the drivers on the new route before they actually are thrown onto that route? Is that so hard to do or is it better they learn with a bus full of people during rush hour trying to go to work & school?

Put signs on the stops that are no longer served by the 77, directing people to the nearest 27 stop.

How about actually putting up the map of the new stops on the website before the route goes live? I checked the google maps button for the 27 at 7.30am and it wasnt loaded.

The google maps that is showing now says the bus stops on Georges Key whereas the timetables says 75 25 Hawkins St. / Eden Quay

I guess this is why I didnt see any 27 labelled bus stop on Eden Key either, or is Eden Key used for the northbound buses?

Why not try phase the route in over a week? Keeping half 77's and half 27's where drivers can learn the new route and also advise passengers they'll need to get the 27 from next week at X stop.

Rabbitt

The 27/77 merger has been on the ards for 18 months.
There is no excuse for drivers not knowing the route likewise poorly signed bus stops and maps.
It's DB's job to get it right first time.

KD345

RichieD wrote: »

Dame street for one. Although its possible my driver stopped at the wrong stop.

There is only one stop on Dame Street in each direction, and they haven't changed since the 77. Stop 1934 southbound (opposite the Olympia) and Stop 1358 northbound (Central Bank). Both are marked clearly for Route 27, the southbound stop has a timetable.

RichieD wrote: »

Maybe take the drivers on the new route before they actually are thrown onto that route? Is that so hard to do or is it better they learn with a bus full of people during rush hour trying to go to work & school?

As I mentioned, drivers are route trained, this has been going on for the last few weeks. However, I can understand why there might be some issues on the first day of a new route. This is why there are mentors in place to help drivers.

RichieD wrote: »

The google maps that is showing now says the bus stops on Georges Key whereas the timetables says 75 25 Hawkins St. / Eden Quay

There is a stop on Georges Quay, and another on Hawkins Street. The google map lists all the stops, you're referring to the stage points for fares. Stage 75 is Hawkins Street southbound and stage 25 is for Eden Quay northbound.

RichieD wrote: »

I guess this is why I didnt see any 27 labelled bus stop on Eden Key either, or is Eden Key used for the northbound buses?

The 27 is displayed on Eden Quay. It picks up at Stop 298 (Stop EH) heading to Edenmore. It shares the same stop as the 29A.

RichieD wrote: »

Why not try phase the route in over a week? Keeping half 77's and half 27's where drivers can learn the new route and also advise passengers they'll need to get the 27 from next week at X stop.

Perhaps you were just unlucky with your experience this morning, I'm sure it'll improve as the week goes on. I have travelled on a few new 27s so far and most people seem to have taken to it quite easily. You can always expect confusion for the first few days when you change a route, but it's normally settled pretty quickly. There have been more confusing route changes than the 27 and passengers have adapted just fine.

thomasj

KD345 wrote: »

There is only one stop on Dame Street in each direction, and they haven't changed since the 77. Stop 1934 southbound (opposite the Olympia) and Stop 1358 northbound (Central Bank).
.

Stops outbound to tallaght are:

- hawkins street (51b/c terminus)

- college green (at ulster bank, 51b/c/151 stop opposite central bank)

- dame street (aib bank opposite the olympia)

KD345

thomasj wrote: »

Stops outbound to tallaght are:

- hawkins street (51b/c terminus)

- college green (at ulster bank, 51b/c/151 stop opposite central bank)

- dame street (aib bank opposite the olympia)

These stops all clearly display 27. Where there is RTPI, the screen also advises passengers of the number change from 77 to 27.

RichieD

KD345 wrote: »

It's the first day of a new route, you have to allow a day or two for drivers to get used to it. Most drivers would have undergone route training, and the mentor is there to help direct drivers unfamiliar with certain parts of the city.



How do you know these passengers wanted a 77? All of these stops are served by other routes.

The 27 is showing on the online RTPI and on mobile apps. It takes 2/3 days for the screens to display new routes.



Which stops are not marked? Any stop I passed yesterday was updated. There is no mystery at all as to where the 27 stops on Hawkins Street. It's clearly displayed on stop 4495 (the same stop as the 51b/c/d, 68/a, 69/x).



I don't agree with your criticism. What would you have done better?
Dublin Bus have updated stops with displays and timetables, passenger notices have been placed on stops affected, all buses are displaying the correct destination, they have announced these changes in the press, online, through social networks and with on street information.

The on street RTPI displays are not controlled by Dublin Bus, they're run by the NTA.

We all agree there were problems with the earlier phases of Network Direct, but I don't see any lack or orginisation with the changes yesterday.

KD345 wrote: »

There is only one stop on Dame Street in each direction, and they haven't changed since the 77. Stop 1934 southbound (opposite the Olympia) and Stop 1358 northbound (Central Bank). Both are marked clearly for Route 27, the southbound stop has a timetable.



As I mentioned, drivers are route trained, this has been going on for the last few weeks. However, I can understand why there might be some issues on the first day of a new route. This is why there are mentors in place to help drivers.



There is a stop on Georges Quay, and another on Hawkins Street. The google map lists all the stops, you're referring to the stage points for fares. Stage 75 is Hawkins Street southbound and stage 25 is for Eden Quay northbound.



The 27 is displayed on Eden Quay. It picks up at Stop 298 (Stop EH) heading to Edenmore. It shares the same stop as the 29A.



Perhaps you were just unlucky with your experience this morning, I'm sure it'll improve as the week goes on. I have travelled on a few new 27s so far and most people seem to have taken to it quite easily. You can always expect confusion for the first few days when you change a route, but it's normally settled pretty quickly. There have been more confusing route changes than the 27 and passengers have adapted just fine.

My point was how would I know whether the Eden Quay stop goes north or south? I didnt know it stops on Georges Quay either cause the map wasnt up and it doesnt say Georges key on the timetable.

We stopped on dame street almost opposite the central bank, I guess the mentor didnt know the stops that well either.

Dont get me wrong im not even annoyed about this, i purposely left 30 minutes early today knowing this would happen. It was also entertaining to see a train of 27's following each other not knowing where to go. I just think its symptmatic of Dublin bus handling this badly.

As the above poster said this route change has been in the cards for years, so why wait until Day0 before putting the map up or drivers actually taking a bus on the new route?

Just saying 'ah sure passengers will figure it out and adapt' is not exactly a well executed plan.

Sure if they miss the bus its their own fault right, they should have consulted the map!! Oh wait. . . . .

KD345

RichieD wrote: »

We stopped on dame street almost opposite the central bank, I guess the mentor didnt know the stops that well either.

That's College Green, not Dame Street.

RichieD wrote: »

My point was how would I know whether the Eden Quay stop goes north or south? I didnt know it stops on Georges Quay either cause the map wasnt up and it doesnt say Georges key on the timetable.

These have been online for the last 10 days. Eden Quay. & Hawkins Street.

You're entitled to your opinion, perhaps the stop map should have been online sooner, although there was a map published last week showing the route. Drivers have been route trained, there are also signs at many locations along the route pointing drivers in the correct direction, and there are mentors assigned to drivers who require assistance. That said, even with the training, I can understand how daunting it might be driving on the first day of a new route which has almost 100 stops in each direction.

dfx-

I went on a few journeys on Saturday on the 50/77/27 (AV11 being the last 77 inbound/AV247 with the honours outbound). Found it very funny to see the Dublin Bus signs with the directional arrows through Walkinstown and Tallaght Village and the Square.

Bit disconcerting that the person whose job is to get you to your destination doesn't necessarily know where it is...

I had guessed that the majority would be Clontarf buses since Ringsend drivers wouldn't need those signs and there weren't any signs on the 27 route, but I've seen more Ringsend buses than Clontarf, including the usually slow-to-be programmed RV600s.

AV286 at lunchtime there eastbound had "City Centre lár na Cathrach" as its destination too.:pac:

RichieD

KD345 wrote: »

That's College Green, not Dame Street.

You're entitled to your opinion, perhaps the stop map should have been online sooner, although there was a map published last week showing the route. Drivers have been route trained, there are also signs at many locations along the route pointing drivers in the correct direction, and there are mentors assigned to drivers who require assistance. That said, even with the training, I can understand how daunting it might be driving on the first day of a new route which has almost 100 stops in each direction.

So it is, though I wouldnt know since its not in the timetable either.

Not blaming the drivers at all, they had a harder time with this than the passengers.

The one good thing Id say is the buses were fairly frequent, I suspected there would be a concertina of buses coming in from Edenmore into town, but as I said I did see at least 3 in the space of 25 minutes which isnt bad.

KD345

dfx- wrote: »

there weren't any signs on the 27 route

There are signs fitted around Coolock, Darndale, Priorswood, Blunden Drive and Edenmore.

dfx-

Actually yes, I wasn't beyond Clare Hall, so probably there was. Still very funny though.

There must be a compulsive urge to get a good scissors or clippers and turn them around and point them in the opposite direction from a certain section of the locals:)

AlekSmart

RichieD wrote: »

We stopped on dame street almost opposite the central bank, I guess the mentor didnt know the stops that well either.

Dont get me wrong im not even annoyed about this, i purposely left 30 minutes early today knowing this would happen. It was also entertaining to see a train of 27's following each other not knowing where to go. I just think its symptmatic of Dublin bus handling this badly.

As the above poster said this route change has been in the cards for years, so why wait until Day0 before putting the map up or drivers actually taking a bus on the new route?

Just saying 'ah sure passengers will figure it out and adapt' is not exactly a well executed plan.

Sure if they miss the bus its their own fault right, they should have consulted the map!! Oh wait. . . . .

Unfortunately,whilst I would concur with much of what KD345 posts,there is a concurrent Industrial Relations issue regarding route-training,which in my opinion should never have arisen.

A laden Bus in service is no place for a driver to be learning a new route.

Put simply,there are drivers who have not been route-trained,but who may yet be allocated a duty on a re-aligned route.

Again,in my opinion,ALL drivers in the relevant garages should have recieved full training on the new routing.

However,the company position is that apart from Marked-In 27 & 77 Drivers and "Spare" Staff, not all Drivers in the relevant Garages are entitled to route-training.

I am aware of several Drivers,in other garages,who undertook route-familiarization in their own time due to being uncertain as to modified routing...this exposes a serious issue in relation to training provision.

What may be happening currently is an untrained relief driver from another route, takes up a 27 duty,then advises Central Control that he/she is unfamiliar with the new route.

In the old days,such a driver would more likely than not be told,"Just ask a passenger and carry-on,you'll know it when ye get back"....

However,in the newly professionalized Bus Driving arena,no controller is going to risk being held responsible should an accident occur involving a non-route-trained driver who had notified their supervisor accordingly.

It is to my mind, TOTALLY unacceptable to have engineered a scenario whereby any Driver remains untrained in the relevant Garages...that is simply asking for trouble,and trouble will come a-calling without doubt.

This is a "Smoking-Gun" of the highest order and should not be contemplated.

In fact IF there were any untrained Drivers in either of the Garages involved,then the changeover should have been postponed.....All it takes is ONE accident involving a route-unfamiliar driver to essentially negate much of the cost-savings associated with Network Direct.

I would agree with RichardD in saying that Network Direct as a plan is deserving of a more thorough approach in terms of operational training for platform staff.

Modern Commercial Operations in any field now place ever more focus on Training,Training and yet more Training as the only way to improve performance in any given field.....Dublin Bus has an enviable record in providing comprehensive and lasting training,so dispensing with that at this juncture is IMO lunacy.

AlekSmart

KD345 wrote: »

There are signs fitted around Coolock, Darndale, Priorswood, Blunden Drive and Edenmore.

This is a welcome adoption of simple stuff which needed to be embraced decades ago.

Anybody familiar with London would recognise "Buses on Diversion" signs regularly to be seen where services are disrupted.

It should not be beyond our capabilities to devise non-tamperable signage and erect it at a sufficient height and location to be immune from the ever-present skanger element.

I would go further and suggest that such preparation should be a function of the NTA's oversight of the process also.

For the duration of Network Direct,Dublin Bus should have significantly increased it's support structure on-street and in Garages.

Preparation,if carried out methodically and thoroughly will make any change a far easier process.......perhaps even a few Stage-Markings might magically reappear,or City-Centre Fare Zone plates be reinstated in their correct locations.....;)

Dub13

AlekSmart,are the unions fighting this seemingly crazy decision not to train all drivers...?

Conway635

Alek's post highlights the disrespect with which the company's management approaches its passengers.

It may be acceptable, though it is not professional, to ask your customer to bear with you while you learn on the job in non safety critical positions (retail for example), but it is not acceptable to have a driver of a public transport vehicle carrying up to 76 passengers distracted by having to converse with a colleague and route-learn while he has passengers on board.

While I can accept that sometimes due to timing issues, holidays, sickness etc, some drivers may miss out on route learning, the opportunity for it should be extended to all staff in a depot, and duties should not be allocated to untrained drivers.

This is not just contempt for customers that the company is displaying, it is disregard for passenger safety.

C635

dfx-

AlekSmart wrote: »

or City-Centre Fare Zone plates be reinstated in their correct locations.....;)

Is the City Centre fare zone still a valid fare?

I was talking to a Summerhill driver on the last couple of days of the 20B and he was saying that drivers were taking spare buses out on the Saturday (the day before the change) and learning the route themselves before the move to the 14.

I was also on Harristown and Summerhill buses in Tallaght on the replacement LUAS service last year that got lost, AX626 in particular going round in circles. The poor driver had to ask passengers if they were familiar, which unlike a scheduled bus route, may not be the case.