Dublin Bus Network Review

AlekSmart

robbie_998 wrote: »

Just thought i'd throw this in here as clondalkin is getting its changes tomorrow

But around most of clondalkin are big yellow signs with dublin bus on them and arrows telling drivers where to go.....

What a great start !

Glad to see you can appreciate the commonsense approach being used at long last by Dublin Bus.

It will prove invaluable to many Busdrivers and their passengers.
It's a development of the signs used for decades by Transport for London and before them London Transport..."Buses on Diversion" and such likes.

But,as Robbie998 has pointed out before,DB are most likely taking a leaf out of Veolia's book here,as I'm sure Robbie998 will have taken the extra time during his recent,well handled, delay at Heuston to note the large sign advising the LUAS Tram Drivers to "Check Your Destination" as they approach the Platform...

Information is power,they tell us...right Robbie998 ?

robbie_998

AlekSmart wrote: »

Glad to see you can appreciate the commonsense approach being used at long last by Dublin Bus.

It will prove invaluable to many Busdrivers and their passengers.
It's a development of the signs used for decades by Transport for London and before them London Transport..."Buses on Diversion" and such likes.

But,as Robbie998 has pointed out before,DB are most likely taking a leaf out of Veolia's book here,as I'm sure Robbie998 will have taken the extra time during his recent,well handled, delay at Heuston to note the large sign advising the LUAS Tram Drivers to "Check Your Destination" as they approach the Platform...

Information is power,they tell us...right Robbie998 ?

no no... i was just pointing out the fact that drivers are gonna miss these signs and take wrong turns and the likes if they dont know the routes...


happened before when some drivers were not told anything when clondalkin main street was being dug up and massive diversions were in place... buses and crap everywhere.

just gonna be a big mess .... especially with the people not knowing about these changes cos half of them dont use internet or have phones good enough for checking.

what will happen tomorrow is drivers getting lost and people standing at bus stops not going anywhere letting buses go by because they dont know anything about the changes and afraid to get on a strange bus.

KD345

The use of these signs has been a help to drivers who might be unfamiliar with certain areas of Dublin not previously served by their depot. Despite route training, many housing estates with multiple roundabouts and junctions can be confusing on a dark evening!

KD345

robbie_998 wrote: »

.

just gonna be a big mess .... especially with the people not knowing about these changes cos half of them dont use internet or have phones good enough for checking.

what will happen tomorrow is drivers getting lost and people standing at bus stops not going anywhere letting buses go by because they dont know anything about the changes and afraid to get on a strange bus.

Dublin Bus have held community meetings, placed ads in this weeks papers, put notices on their website and social media sites and made flyers available to the public.

There will always be people who are slow to adapt, but they're generally fine after a day or two.

Drivers have been route trained, there are signs at points along the route in Ballymun and Clondalkin, and there will be mentors available to assist if necessary.

Also, stops along the route have been updated to display new route 13 with timetable where possible.

Maybe it would be fair to wait a few days before deciding it's a mess.

robbie_998

KD345 wrote: »

Dublin Bus have held community meetings, placed ads in this weeks papers, put notices on their website and social media sites and made flyers available to the public.

There will always be people who are slow to adapt, but they're generally fine after a day or two.

Drivers have been route trained, there are signs at points along the route in Ballymun and Clondalkin, and there will be mentors available to assist if necessary.

Also, stops along the route have been updated to display new route 13 with timetable where possible.

Maybe it would be fair to wait a few days before deciding it's a mess.

with the exception of the meetings

the same things were done when the got rid of the 51B and made it 2 separate routes 51B/C

the times and all were up but people blatantly ignored them.


there is a large number of people who dont use social media sites and internet in clondalkin (you might say old fashion)

guaranteed to be a mess.

it'd be a good day to drive a taxi around clondalkin !

KD345

If people choose to ignore timetables, press ads, web/online notices, flyers, bus stop displays and bus destination scrolls then there is little more Dublin Bus, or anybody else for that matter, can do to help.

I'm sure after their first mistake, or taxi fare, they'll soon realise that the 13 is the bus they need!

AlekSmart

KD345 wrote: »

If people choose to ignore timetables, press ads, web/online notices, flyers, bus stop displays and bus destination scrolls then there is little more Dublin Bus, or anybody else for that matter, can do to help.

I'm sure after their first mistake, or taxi fare, they'll soon realise that the 13 is the bus they need!

I can be reasonably sure,as KD345 points out,that offering €1.20 bud,to a Taxidriver will result in a full and frank refusal-of-service,as indeed will production of a colouredy piece of cardboard.....so I reckon it'll be just like most Sundays for the local Taxi trade ?

dfx-

AlekSmart wrote: »

Glad to see you can appreciate the commonsense approach being used at long last by Dublin Bus.

It will prove invaluable to many Busdrivers and their passengers.
It's a development of the signs used for decades by Transport for London and before them London Transport..."Buses on Diversion" and such likes.

They were in Tallaght before the 27 became active and by all reports, there were still 27 drivers from Clontarf requiring help beyond the first day of service. So did it prove invaluable?

Not a nice weather day to see off the 51B/C. EV53 had the honours of the final 51C leaving the city, AX604, the final 51B. Hopefully there'll be Harristown's AVs instead of their crappy AXs and VGs.

CIE

DB are most likely taking a leaf out of Veolia's book here

Veolia got kicked out of the UK, remember, when they were Connex.

starviewadams

Very interested to see how the new 13 works out,also saw a few local gurriers messing around with the arrow posters that DB put up for the new route drivers,hopefully they won't get stuck down a cul-de-sac!

robbie_998

starviewadams wrote: »

Very interested to see how the new 13 works out,also saw a few local gurriers messing around with the arrow posters that DB put up for the new route drivers,hopefully they won't get stuck down a cul-de-sac!

heh heh heh :cool:


dare i say who ever thought of that was a genius :pac:

AlekSmart

robbie_998 wrote: »

heh heh heh :cool:

dare i say who ever thought of that was a genius :pac:

There (or dare) ye have it folks......reckon that sentiment tops off this thread just nicely......not much more one can add,is there....

Dyr

I think it just goes to show that dublin bus have the planning genius of wile e coyote.

stop

Bambi wrote: »

I think it just goes to show that dublin bus have the planning genius of wile e coyote.

With all the AVLC equipment on board, is there no way they can be programmed to operate like a normal GPS unit?

BenShermin

Alex makes a good point on the about directional posters for drivers during closures to roads during roadworks/flooding/snow etc. But if drivers are not confident enough to know the new route 13 they are driving today then that just screams to me that Dublin Bus management couldn't be bothered investing the time and money into properly training drivers.

Just a thought, but would it not make sense for drivers to switch garages for a week or two to learn the geography of the new areas they'll be serving under the cross city routes. Harristown drivers could have gained valuable experience in the Clondalkin/Ballyfermot areas by working a few weeks in Conyingham road or vice versa. Perhaps they do already and I'm just not aware:o.

I work for a retail chain myself and once or twice a year I will work at one of other the stores in the chain, ideas and practices are swapped and the company as a whole gains from the small expense of a lunch voucher and a DB rambler ticket;).



BTW, removing those posters is just scumbaggerry at it's finest. Would it be as funny if these scroats directed a double decker bus down a street with a low bridge or a narrow, quiet street that children run accross??

LXFlyer

This is standard practice for many transit operators abroad when changes like this take place.

Yet what do I read here when best practice is put in place in Dublin - people knock it.

Why am I surprised?

KD345

Bambi wrote: »

I think it just goes to show that dublin bus have the planning genius of wile e coyote.

Can you elaborate on that statement? The planning for this change has been fine. What would you have done differently?

It really is incredible to read people complain about Dublin Bus actually putting extra measures in place to ensure new routes run smoothly.

BenShermin wrote: »

But if drivers are not confident enough to know the new route 13 they are driving today then that just screams to me that Dublin Bus management couldn't be bothered investing the time and money into properly training drivers.

Drivers ARE route trained. It's been going on for the last number of weeks. The signs are there to aid drivers in housing estates and at major junctions. On a dark evening, in a housing estate with numerous roundabouts, twists and turns, it can often look like a maze until you're used to it. Having a bright yellow arrow assist you in the right direction can be a help.

BenShermin wrote: »

Harristown drivers could have gained valuable experience in the Clondalkin/Ballyfermot areas by working a few weeks in Conyingham road or vice versa. Perhaps they do already and I'm just not aware:o.

Harristown drivers are experienced when it comes to operating routes outside their depot. Many drivers based at Harristown provide peak time duties to other routes across the network.

robbie_998 wrote: »

what will happen tomorrow is drivers getting lost and people standing at bus stops not going anywhere letting buses go by because they dont know anything about the changes and afraid to get on a strange bus.

From my observations so far today, none of that has happened. Most passengers boarded the 13 in Clondalkin without question, a few passengers asked how far across town the bus actually goes, and seemed happy that it served O'Connell Street. Likewise, there are already lots of passengers waiting at the stop on O'Connell Street southbound, a good sign considering it's the first day of operation. The only confusion on board seemed to be around Drumcondra, when the 13 didn't turn onto Whitworth Road. I suppose that can be expected considering the bus is displaying 13 while it's running the old 13A route.

phasers

There must be serious issues behind the 78a/40 merger for it to take this long... it must be over a year now since it was announced!


Robbie, I saw those posters last night and lol'd heartily. Reminded me of the time I was on the 239 and the driver was asking the passengers for directions to Blanchardstown

patrickbrophy18

phasers wrote: »

Reminded me of the time I was on the 239 and the driver was asking the passengers for directions to Blanchardstown

That is absolutely hilarious. I've heard of this before were a bus driver asks the passengers for directions.

To Blanchardstown though?

Are you having a giraffe(rhyming slang for laugh)?

That is the central point of the entire Dublin 15 region and it is very hard to miss, especially when the entire area is abundant with road signage.

dfx-

KD345 wrote: »

Drivers ARE route trained. It's been going on for the last number of weeks. The signs are there to aid drivers in housing estates and at major junctions. On a dark evening, in a housing estate with numerous roundabouts, twists and turns, it can often look like a maze until you're used to it. Having a bright yellow arrow assist you in the right direction can be a help.

How can someone be route-trained if they can get lost in the dark? Did they train in the dark? What does 'route training' involve?

Secondly, how in the name of the flying spaghetti monster is posters pinned to the street furniture being referred to as 'best practice'? Perhaps train the drivers for longer in the dark instead?

markpb

dfx- wrote: »

How can someone be route-trained if they can get lost in the dark? Did they train in the dark? What does 'route training' involve?

Because drivers are human?

Secondly, how in the name of the flying spaghetti monster is posters pinned to the street furniture 'best practice'? Perhaps train the drivers for longer in the dark instead?

Why, then, is it done in plenty of other cities? Are their drivers useless to?

What KD345 didn't mention is that only marked in drivers are trained on the new routes. Standby drivers must learn the route in their own free time.

KD345

dfx- wrote: »

How can someone be route-trained if they can get lost in the dark? Did they train in the dark? What does 'route training' involve?

I'm simply suggesting the benefits of these signs. I'm sure the majority of drivers are perfectly capable of driving in all conditions, but it just takes a missed turn in a housing estate to take a bus off route. I don't see any harm in having these signs there to assist.

starviewadams

Very handy being able to get the new 13 up to O'Connell St,a good 10 minutes off my walk up to Gardiner Street.

Will be interesting to see if I'll be able to get a seat tomorrow in rush hour though!

Odd_Thomas

markpb wrote: »

Because drivers are human?

What KD345 didn't mention is that only marked in drivers are trained on the new routes. Standby drivers must learn the route in their own free time.

All marked in drivers and spare drivers are trained normally with two hours ot being paid.
If a marked in driver moves over to the route then they must know/or aquire self training.

Cookie_Monster

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

That is absolutely hilarious. I've heard of this before were a bus driver asks the passengers for directions.
.

I've had 7b driver ask where to go, a friend of mine spent the entire 7 journey from town chatting with a new driver cos he hadn't the faintest idea where to go and best of all have gotten a 45a re-routed cos he went the wrong way:

he turned right onto Church road rather than left onto Wyattville and turned left down Churchview rather than coming up it. My girlfriend was on the bus, I was waiting on Churchview and she rang me to get me to cross the road for the outbound stop, got on, he drove down to Tesco did a u-turn and continued back up th road in the right direction as normal. His excuse was he overheard the aulwans behind him taking about the Graduate pub and instinct kicked in and he went the shortest route to it

Viva La Gloria

if they cut the 84 to Blackrock, that would be utter ****e.

dfx-

markpb wrote: »

Because drivers are human?

What KD345 didn't mention is that only marked in drivers are trained on the new routes. Standby drivers must learn the route in their own free time.

Isn't it in Dublin Bus' interests to make sure they know the route than them doing it in their own free time. Not great use of resources. If I was sending people out to collect revenue for me, I'd damned make sure they knew every piece of grit. And not leave it up to themselves. I've not been on any 51B/C that has ever got lost in 15 years. Because the drivers knew the route.

Knowing Clondalkin village in particular, it does take some getting used to how the 51B/C approach Watery Lane and diverge down Tower Road and then reconvene to Grange Castle. Then the reverse happening as they get to Molloy's and back towards Woodford. Going left or right in the wrong place makes a huge difference. Time is needed to know it..

KD345 wrote: »

I'm simply suggesting the benefits of these signs. I'm sure the majority of drivers are perfectly capable of driving in all conditions, but it just takes a missed turn in a housing estate to take a bus off route. I don't see any harm in having these signs there to assist.

No harm at all, just like there's no reason to be so annoyed at criticism of them or of people finding them funny like some above have^.

Dyr

KD345 wrote: »

Can you elaborate on that statement? The planning for this change has been fine. What would you have done differently?

Drivers ARE route trained. It's been going on for the last number of weeks. The signs are there to aid drivers in housing estates and at major junctions. On a dark evening, in a housing estate with numerous roundabouts, twists and turns, it can often look like a maze until you're used to it. Having a bright yellow arrow assist you in the right direction can be a help.



Harristown drivers are experienced when it comes to operating routes outside their depot. Many drivers based at Harristown provide peak time duties to other routes across the network.

Are you familiar with wile e coyote? his modus operandi was often to erect signs which would then be tampered with thus foiling his plans. :P

Whatever planning they're at they'd want to improve..the 13 driver this morning didnt stop at d'olier house but turned onto college green and sailed past the stop there that's marked for the 13 only to stop two further stops down :pac:

starviewadams

Happy enough with my experiences of the new 13,was only waiting about 2 minutes for one on Convent Road this morning and there was plenty of seats still available when I got on board.Another nearly empty 13 overtook us in Woodford so there was no problems with overcrowding as we got closer to town with the two busses alternating between stops.

Another positive is that the fare was still only €2.30 even though I was now going to Dorset Street instead of getting off at Central Bank like I had to on the old 51C.

AlekSmart

starviewadams wrote: »

Happy enough with my experiences of the new 13,was only waiting about 2 minutes for one on Convent Road this morning and there was plenty of seats still available when I got on board.......

.......Another positive is that the fare was still only €2.30 even though I was now going to Dorset Street instead of getting off at Central Bank like I had to on the old 51C.

Well spotted Starviewadams,this is one aspect of Network Direct which is welcome indeed for those who make a longer journey......until the next Fare "Revision"....:o