Dublin Bus Network Review

Conway635

end of the road wrote: »

so what happens to the withdrawn busses? are they sold or scrapped? i heard before that some were been withdrawn to cut costs as part of network direct so why now are dublin bus getting new ones?

In recent years (since 2002) withdrawn buses are tendered for sale, and often end up in the UK where they give several more years service to smaller operators who cannot afford new buses.

Re your question, new buses are needed because even when you reduce fleet size (from roughly 1200 to around 950 as is the case) you still need to replace older buses with newer models as they reach the end of their lives.

In this case particularly, Dublin Bus still has 50+ non-accessible double-deckers in the fleet, which have to be replaced by the end of this year to keep the promise of a fully accissible fleet by end 2012, which was made some time ago.

While the company was converting to lowfloor accessible vehicles (between 2000 and today) they reduced the age at which they routinely disposed of old vehicles from 16 to 12 to speed the transition. Once this is complete, the upper limit will probably increase again.

This age 12 or 16 - is a nominal one, not an exact limit.

In the old days there were many instances of individual buses reaching 18 or 20 years or more, while some were withdrawn at younger than 16, likewise in recent years some buses only lasted 10 years, while the last non-accessible ones are currently pushing 13.

Special mention must be made of course of the oldest bus in the fleet, DF450 the older of the two Ghost Buses, which is due to be retired this year. It entered service in Summerhill 40 years ago, had a full and long life in service (mainly on the 20/A later 20B and occasional forays to the 16/A and 33) before becoming an open-topper, and was then later re-roofed and put onto ghost tours.

It is not only the longest serving bus in the history of the CIE companies, but also the final Leyland and the last CIE Inchicore bodied bus in the fleet, and possibly the only Leyland Atlantean PDR1 in these islands still in unbroken service with its original operator.

C635

LXFlyer

The fleet has been reduced in size, but these new buses will facilitate the withdrawal of the last of the Volvo Olympian RV fleet and will mean that the entire fleet will be entirely low floor.

The RVs are up for sale. As they are in good condition I would not expect many to be scrapped. They are in fact snapped up usually by UK operators.

KD345

end of the road wrote: »

so what happens to the withdrawn busses? are they sold or scrapped? i heard before that some were been withdrawn to cut costs as part of network direct? so i take it dublin bus are getting new ones to replace the ones that are life expired?

In recent years, the buses have been sold to smaller operators in Ireland and the UK. They are generally used for a mixture of school work and tours. The Dublin Bus fleet has reduced in the last two years, allowing for older (Olympian) buses to be withdrawn. The new deliveries are replacing the remaining Olympians and some low floor double and single decks. Along with this, some of the older buses remaining in service have undergone refurbishment.

end of the road

thanks guys. kd345 mentionedsome of the older busses got refurbishments. what was the reason for this? were they not old enough for withdrawel? was it because they were more suitable to the fleet then other busses?

LXFlyer

Instead of being withdrawn after 12 years, some of the AV fleet will remain now for 16 years.

Tough recessionary times I'm afraid!

end of the road

lxflyer wrote: »

Instead of being withdrawn after 12 years, some of the AV fleet will remain now for 16 years.

Tough recessionary times I'm afraid!

well their low floor aren't they? 16 years is nothing really, they will be perfectly fine. at least those horid non-low floors are gone, they were a bunch of closterfobic tin cans.

LXFlyer

16 years old is at the upper end for daily city bus operations. After than reliability becomes an issue and I certainly would not like to see a return to the old days when the recovery trucks were perpetually on the road returning broken down buses to the garage.

The "claustrophobic tin cans",as you refer to them as, were actually one of the most reliable buses ever bought in Dublin. I wouldn't knock them that quickly.

end of the road

16 years old is at the upper end for daily city bus operations. After than reliability becomes an issue and

lxflyer wrote: »

I certainly would not like to see a return to the old days when the recovery trucks were perpetually on the road returning broken down buses to the garage.

The "claustrophobic tin cans" as you refer to them as were actually one of he most reliable buses ever bought in Dublin. I wouldn't knock them that quickly.

i'm not suggesting we go back to that, me saying that 16 years is nothing was just an observation, it seems rather short for a bus life span thats all. i even remember the recks that were on the road back around the early to mid 90s. anyone know what were those busses that had that realy high rev? sounded like somebody putting the boot right down to the floor (even though that wasn't the case) anyone?

LXFlyer

It isn't short at all. The "tin cans" that you referred to above are only 13 years old.

The_Wrecker

lxflyer wrote: »

16 years old is at the upper end for daily city bus operations. After than reliability becomes an issue and I certainly would not like to see a return to the old days when the recovery trucks were perpetually on the road returning broken down buses to the garage.

The "claustrophobic tin cans",as you refer to them as, were actually one of the most reliable buses ever bought in Dublin. I wouldn't knock them that quickly.

Hope were not back to the old days indeed! I remember back when a full batch of KD/KC's would go out on the 7's in the morning and none would make it through to midnight. Transfers and failures.

end of the road

lxflyer wrote: »

The "claustrophobic tin cans",as you refer to them as, were actually one of the most reliable buses ever bought in Dublin. I wouldn't knock them that quickly.

thats great, but they weren't the most pleasant to travel on depending on where you sat, if you sat upstairs or down a bit they were fine but if you sat at the front where the bench seats were then they were definitely closterfobic.

LXFlyer

In over 20 years of using them I have never ever experienced that.

end of the road

lxflyer wrote: »

In over 20 years of using them I have never ever experienced that.

i thought they were 13 years old?

Devilman40k

end of the road wrote: »

i thought they were 13 years old?

The first batch were brought into service in 1990

end of the road

Devilman40k wrote: »

The first batch were brought into service in 1990

ah okay, i wasn't aware of that.

miller50841

Conway635 wrote: »

In recent years (since 2002) withdrawn buses are tendered for sale, and often end up in the UK where they give several more years service to smaller operators who cannot afford new buses.

Re your question, new buses are needed because even when you reduce fleet size (from roughly 1200 to around 950 as is the case) you still need to replace older buses with newer models as they reach the end of their lives.

In this case particularly, Dublin Bus still has 50+ non-accessible double-deckers in the fleet, which have to be replaced by the end of this year to keep the promise of a fully accissible fleet by end 2012, which was made some time ago.

While the company was converting to lowfloor accessible vehicles (between 2000 and today) they reduced the age at which they routinely disposed of old vehicles from 16 to 12 to speed the transition. Once this is complete, the upper limit will probably increase again.

This age 12 or 16 - is a nominal one, not an exact limit.

In the old days there were many instances of individual buses reaching 18 or 20 years or more, while some were withdrawn at younger than 16, likewise in recent years some buses only lasted 10 years, while the last non-accessible ones are currently pushing 13.

Special mention must be made of course of the oldest bus in the fleet, DF450 the older of the two Ghost Buses, which is due to be retired this year. It entered service in Summerhill 40 years ago, had a full and long life in service (mainly on the 20/A later 20B and occasional forays to the 16/A and 33) before becoming an open-topper, and was then later re-roofed and put onto ghost tours.

It is not only the longest serving bus in the history of the CIE companies, but also the final Leyland and the last CIE Inchicore bodied bus in the fleet, and possibly the only Leyland Atlantean PDR1 in these islands still in unbroken service with its original operator.

C635

I hate that they do that with the old buses they should keep some especially the ghost bus thats something you will never see again.
They had their own body type unique to Ireland where as now all the buses are the same as the UK and other EU countries be sad to see the RV class go they were and still are a better bus to the newer ones and actually have the same mpg as the AV, AX class

miller50841

The_Wrecker wrote: »

In Donnybrook all bar 3 WV's have been withdrawn.

Thats good cause they are one dangerous heap

miller50841

end of the road wrote: »

i thought they were 13 years old?

There were RA then changed to RV in 1997
The 1st bunch were leyland 1990 to 1993 then volvo got the contract from 1994 and have been used ever since.

The RA and RV volvo's were quality and put together very well.
The AV fleet give huge trouble with overheating due to sensor faults for coolant and break down alot.
The AX fleet was a rush job and rattle a hell of a lot and are very low on power. Engine is too small and doesn't give better mpg it's same or less.
The EV and VT fleet are a big improvement to the AV and AX

Cookie_Monster

miller50841 wrote: »

I hate that they do that with the old buses they should keep some especially the ghost bus thats something you will never see again.
They had their own body type unique to Ireland where as now all the buses are the same as the UK and other EU countries be sad to see the RV class go they were and still are a better bus to the newer ones and actually have the same mpg as the AV, AX class

Anywhere else they'd end up in a national transport museum but that not something the Irish government feel is important

miller50841

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Anywhere else they'd end up in a national transport museum but that not something the Irish government feel is important

Hopefully someone has the money to keep 1 or that somewhere and keep em going

end of the road

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Anywhere else they'd end up in a national transport museum but that not something the Irish government feel is important

ah come on now, shur we have to keep every bit of available space for the next few bits of wood found in a bog or some god foresaken dump.

Conway635

Well, like everything else the old Ghostbus DF450 will be tendered for sale, so anyone who wants to see it preserved will have a fair chance to buy it.

To be fair to DB, we can't expect them to operate as a museum when we are asking them to cut costs drastically.

Pre 2002 there was a big problem with the way the CIE group operators disposed of vehicles - they insisted that they go for scrap, not resale. And while the Bombardiers (KD) would never have found UK buyers, a whole generation of earlier buses (the Atlanteans) would have raised money for CIE on the UK market, where small operators happily buy older buses that the big groups consider "end of life". This is especially so considering thae fact that our buses of that era were very stylish compared to the basic UK models of the time.

But, we're probably veering off topic here.

In any case, the new GT class should start delivery in the next week, first to Donnybrook (21) and then to C/Road (10), Harristown (18), Summerhill (10), Clontarf (12) and finally Ringsend (9).

So between now and Christmas the last non-accessible buses in the fleet will bow out.

C635

LXFlyer

miller50841 wrote: »

There were RA then changed to RV in 1997
The 1st bunch were leyland 1990 to 1993 then volvo got the contract from 1994 and have been used ever since.

The RA and RV volvo's were quality and put together very well.
The AV fleet give huge trouble with overheating due to sensor faults for coolant and break down alot.
The AX fleet was a rush job and rattle a hell of a lot and are very low on power. Engine is too small and doesn't give better mpg it's same or less.
The EV and VT fleet are a big improvement to the AV and AX

The original model was the Leyland Olympian, designated RH, and delivered from 1990. Subsequent models delivered over the following 9 years were the RA and RV, with over 620 vehicles being delivered in total.

Incidentally, Leyland Bus was actually taken over by Volvo - the change was nothing to do with changing contracts.

Dyr

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Anywhere else they'd end up in a national transport museum but that not something the Irish government feel is important

We should give transport anoraks the option to buy them.

Conway635

Bambi wrote: »

We should give transport anoraks the option to buy them.

But we do. Everything goes up on etenders.

I bought mine on etenders, just like anyone else could.

C635

dfx-

lxflyer wrote: »

The original model was the Leyland Olympian, designated RH, and delivered from 1990. Subsequent models delivered over the following 9 years were the RA and RV, with over 620 vehicles being delivered in total.

640? Or 620 volvos?

RVs were perfected by the time of the last lot, the 97s were ok, but poor towards their end, 98s were not very reliable but the 99s were faultless. A lot of what is left now is being run into the ground sadly.

LXFlyer

Sorry - 640 Olympians, be they Leyland or Volvo.

miller50841

lxflyer wrote: »

The original model was the Leyland Olympian, designated RH, and delivered from 1990. Subsequent models delivered over the following 9 years were the RA and RV, with over 620 vehicles being delivered in total.
Thats what I said apart from I didn't put in olympian

Incidentally, Leyland Bus was actually taken over by Volvo - the change was nothing to do with changing contracts.

well volvo have it and looks like its staying that way

miller50841

dfx- wrote: »

640? Or 620 volvos?

RVs were perfected by the time of the last lot, the 97s were ok, but poor towards their end, 98s were not very reliable but the 99s were faultless. A lot of what is left now is being run into the ground sadly.

I found the 98 rv had better suspension and were unreal quick

miller50841

Conway635 wrote: »

But we do. Everything goes up on etenders.

I bought mine on etenders, just like anyone else could.

C635

Hi went onto etenders and cant see any buses or that was just wondering what they are selling for