Dublin Bus Network Review

josephgriffin

Donnybrook to get some of P/Boros Vt,s for the new 46A, There will be a lot of Inter garage transfers so should be interesting to see who gets what. Rumour is the VT,s will roam where they haven't roamed before . The WV,s are to go, so the 123 *should* go D/deck. It will be interesting though, the RV,s can operate this route but I'm told the AV,s are the buses that have the problems.

KC61

There is talk of an orbital route using the Green route across South Dublin - namely the R113 from Ballinteer to Tallaght - this could be the 174. From where it will start I don't know.

KD345

Some interesting speculation, although it's worth remembering that only phase 1 has been fully approved.

Some of the suggestions seem strange. It will be interesting to see how they manage the Knocklyon/Firhouse/Stocking Lane area. The 15, 15B, 49, 74, 74A all seem to have good loadings, so you would wonder how this will be managed. It also looks like Tallaght is being simplified a bit with a few routes being scrapped.

With the 19 and 122 being merged with the 83 and 2, where does this leave routes on the South Circular Road corridor. Are they being replaced with one route to Drimnagh via Rialto? Or will the 123 now become the only bus to Rialto/Drimnagh?

patrickbrophy18

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

he means 237 / 238 / 239

Got it Cookie_Monster, thanks!:D

I took the 75 to Tallaght from Dun Laoghaire a few weeks ago. It took about 80 minutes and it was progressing pretty swiftly. That isn't saying much for the route in terms of it's speed and timing. According to the Dublin Bus website, there is no 174 (unless the other forum which josephgriffen metioned was talking about the 74). Either way, the 75 is going to have to be straightened out a lot to accomodate a route merge. Obviously, key portions of the route will have to remain intact such as Dundrum, Balinteer, Nutgrove, Rathfarnham and Churchtown as they are hubs unto themselves. However, this could leave a lot of passengers p*ssed off. In order to avoid this, it may have to be split somewhere in the middle and merge at a common point to keep its passengers satisfied. While I admire this ingenious concept of cross-city routes to save money, I do think that scrutiny should be excersized where neighborhoods currently serviced by buses are concerned.

For example, the neighborhoods which stretch the area between Ballycoolin and Mulhudart Village will have to be taken into account when these changes are applied. Otherwise they could be left with a very long walk to their nearest stop. The current situation where the 38(or 38a) does a "59 Bus" job around the area certainly needs to be addressed in way where the residents don't loose out and where the route or routes are sensible and DIRECT.

I will mention that this kind of problem could have been avoided at the time when appartments and houses where springing up all over the Dublin 15 region if they had been built along a straight enough line. At the moment, the Dublin 15 population is completely and unevenly scattered enducing Dublin Bus to introduce indirect city routes. I used to work for IBM in Damastown as mentioned earlier in this thread and know the pain of public transport in this area all too well. In fact, the 38 and 38a have their own variations which makes matters much worse. I can remember my first day at work when I had arrived late because I was on the 38 for two hours. I was so embarrassed and infuriated.:mad:

lucernarian

The poor residents of Trinity's accommodation are going to lose the frequent bus service again if the 128 joins the other multitudes of buses heading to Terenure. Ah well, a 10 minute walk to a luas stop can't be that painful. You could guess that I don't live there anymore:D

Were the 14a to have route cuts, the Luas would be pretty much the only show in town between Rathmines and Churchtown.

Also, I object to the treating of Merrion Square as "city centre". While it is in the city centre zone (despite what the ticketing machines of the 4/7 think), it's at the very periphery and there are no immediate large-scale destinations in the vicinity except TCD. No shops of any significance. The various quangos in the area seem to stick to their cars. Strange place to have a terminus methinks, e.g. with the 45

It would be a shame if the 74/a is going. I found it quite reliable in off-peak times. Furthermore, are there any alternative bus routes near Stocking Lane?

Ham'nd'egger

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

The poor residents of Trinity's accommodation are going to lose the frequent bus service again if the 128 joins the other multitudes of buses heading to Terenure. Ah well, a 10 minute walk to a luas stop can't be that painful. You could guess that I don't live there anymore:D

Were the 14a to have route cuts, the Luas would be pretty much the only show in town between Rathmines and Churchtown.

The 14A is to be one of the "Super Routes" so it will actually get additional services to and from Dartry.

Ham'nd'egger

Some more information I have seen in relation to the proposed route review as follows; some big developments.....

• 16A will no longer serve Beaumount. Route 17A will run via Beaumount Hospital. A new route, 105 will run from Clontarf to Heuston but it will not serve the city centre area. The 41C will not serve Swords Manor.
  
• 121 will be cancelled as will the 13A, 25X and the 39X.
  
• The 4/4A will be extended to Dun Laoghaire and will continue to run from Harristown. The 46A will no longer serve Monkstown Farm while the 39A will terminate at Belfield.
  
• Route 83 will not serve Finglas Village; some services will serve Rivermede estate.
  
• After arriving at Westmoreland Street the 78A Route will operate via O’Connell Street, Dorset Street, Whitworth Road and Glasnevin Cemetery. From here it will run through Cardiffbridge and south Finglas, West and North Finglas before terminating in the village.
  
• The 79A will run from Parkwest proceed down the same route to Clifton Road, Oranmore Road, Spiddal Park, back down the Clifton Road and hence normal route to Ormond Quay and Liberty Hall. From here it will serve Amiens Street, North Strand, Fairview, Malahide Road and Kilmore via Beaumont Hospital.
  
• The 76 from Tallaght will run as normal to B&Q Superstore at Coldcut, Liffey Valley Shopping Centre, the N 4 at the Arc, the M50, up onto the N3 and into Blanchardstown Shopping Centre where it will meet the 17A. It will no longer run via Ballyfermot.
  
• The new 166 will run from Liffey Valley, onto the N4 to Woodies, the Outer Ring Road, Grange Castle, City West, Blessington Road and through Tallaght to the Square.
  
• Route 51 and 51C will be cancelled. The current 51B route should remain in place. The 151 will continue as normal with the Kishogue extension planned for the near future.
  
• Routes 68 & 69 will become a feeder route service from The Red Cow LUAS Terminus to Newcastle and Rathcoole with some workings into town. The proposed route for the 68 will run via Cherrywood as per the 51C route.

There is no word on timetables for any of these routes as of yet.

Bazzer2

KD345 wrote: »

With the 19 and 122 being merged with the 83 and 2, where does this leave routes on the South Circular Road corridor. Are they being replaced with one route to Drimnagh via Rialto? Or will the 123 now become the only bus to Rialto/Drimnagh?

The present route 120 is to be extended to cover the southern leg of the re-routed 122.

Bazzer2

josephgriffin wrote: »

Snipped from Irish Road Passenger Transport Forum.

Don't put too much stock into what that forum reports, they are mostly children with notebooks running after buses with third-hand information.

KC61

Hamndegger wrote: »

A new route, 105 will run from Clontarf to Heuston but it will not serve the city centre area.

This fits in with the idea of two orbital networks, with inner and outer loops. Presumably the 17 will extend up to link in with the 105.

murphaph

Hamndegger wrote: »

Routes 68 & 69 will become a feeder route service from The Red Cow LUAS Terminus to Newcastle and Rathcoole with some workings into town. The proposed route for the 68 will run via Cherrywood as per the 51C route.

Hmmm, will the 68 feed into the 151 or some other high frequency bus service too, or just feed the Luas? It seems, in the absence of integrated fares, that to feed solely into the Luas would be unfair on passengers from Newcastle, but a timetabled tie in to the 151 would be fine. I'm originally from Newcastle and my brother still uses the 68 to get into the city but it is a long enough route and Newcastle is a relatively small place so I'm not surprised it's being amended. Still I expect a LOT of uproar over this from Newcastle (and I presume Rathcoole) residents when they hear their direct city centre connection is being removed.

In an ideal world of course, the muppets in Irish Rail would be running high frequency services on the Kildare line (especially now that the 4 tracking is almost complete) all the way round to Docklands Station. In that ideal world, Dublin Bus could run regular orbital feeders between Celbridge/Newcastle/Rathcoole via Hazelhatch. It would kick the arse off any other mode into that part of town, if Irish Rail ran it like a proper railway and not a giant trainset.

KC61

murphaph wrote: »

Hmmm, will the 68 feed into the 151 or some other high frequency bus service too, or just feed the Luas? It seems, in the absence of integrated fares, that to feed solely into the Luas would be unfair on passengers from Newcastle, but a timetabled tie in to the 151 would be fine. I'm originally from Newcastle and my brother still uses the 68 to get into the city but it is a long enough route and Newcastle is a relatively small place so I'm not surprised it's being amended. Still I expect a LOT of uproar over this from Newcastle (and I presume Rathcoole) residents when they hear their direct city centre connection is being removed.

In an ideal world of course, the muppets in Irish Rail would be running high frequency services on the Kildare line (especially now that the 4 tracking is almost complete) all the way round to Docklands Station. In that ideal world, Dublin Bus could run regular orbital feeders between Celbridge/Newcastle/Rathcoole via Hazelhatch. It would kick the arse off any other mode into that part of town, if Irish Rail ran it like a proper railway and not a giant trainset.

Murhaph - you are missing an important part of that piece from Ham'nd'egger:

Hamndegger wrote: »

Routes 68 & 69 will become a feeder route service from The Red Cow LUAS Terminus to Newcastle and Rathcoole with some workings into town. The proposed route for the 68 will run via Cherrywood as per the 51C route.

I would read that as a peak hour service will operate to/from the city.

cleveland browne

42 all to portmarnock via seabury
32 all to malahide
29a. High frequency from baldoyle
130 to lose buses
42b to lose buses route change likely
42a scrapped
104 to beaumont hospital via harmonstown road
31b scrapped maybe
53 no word

KC61

Hamndegger wrote: »

The 14A is to be one of the "Super Routes" so it will actually get additional services to and from Dartry.

That is beginning to make more sense.

Given the 128 is merging with the 15 and operating to the Ballycullen area, it sounds like the merged 14a/20b will operate from Beaumont to Palmerston Park. That would leave the section from Palmerston Park to Churchtown without a bus service - not a disaster given the LUAS stops along the route and low population density.

The 48a is to go also.

Therefore I would think that the 14 would become the main route linking the city with Churchtown and Ballinteer, and on to Dundrum. That would make much more sense as it has the higher loadings. Not a "super" route but one with perhaps a reasonable frequency.

The rumour is also that the 16a will be withdrawn to be replaced by the 16 from Airport (not via Beaumont) to Ballinteer. What that means for Nutgrove I don't know.

Torpedo

"A new route, 105 will run from Clontarf to Heuston but it will not serve the city centre area. "


Where would the route go via, am guessing via Ballybough, Parnell St? Would hardly do the same 130 tour of Clontarf housing estates?

KC61

KD345 wrote: »

With the 19 and 122 being merged with the 83 and 2, where does this leave routes on the South Circular Road corridor. Are they being replaced with one route to Drimnagh via Rialto? Or will the 123 now become the only bus to Rialto/Drimnagh?

It sounds like:

The 19 being cancelled and merged with the 83.

The 122 operating from Ashington to Sandymount (merging with the 2).

The 120 extended south to take up the southern portion of the 122.

The 150 being rerouted via the current 121 routing.

markpb

Hamndegger wrote: »

16A will no longer serve Beaumount.

Not a bad move but I think DB should be running more services to the airport instead of less. Currently people living on the Drumcondra/Swords corridor have a direct link to the airport but no-one else does. There are lots of advantages to using the airport as a hub, especially now that it's linked to the city centre by DPT / 747.

Route 17A will run via Beaumount Hospital.

This was first suggested by DB about three years ago but back then (and hopefully still now), only some of the departures would vary off the normal route. Hopefully this is still true - one of the advantages of the 17a is it's direct route with no meandering or variations.

The 4/4A will be extended to Dun Laoghaire and will continue to run from Harristown.

That's going to be a very long route. I'd be worried that even with the improved situation in the city centre, it will become unreliable. Especially if they're going to continue to use single-door operations.

cleveland browne

Torpedo wrote: »

"A new route, 105 will run from Clontarf to Heuston but it will not serve the city centre area. "


Where would the route go via, am guessing via Ballybough, Parnell St? Would hardly do the same 130 tour of Clontarf housing estates?

A guess would be collins ave finglas road phibsboro possibly

Torpedo

cleveland browne wrote: »

A guess would be collins ave finglas road phibsboro possibly

Interesting that would cover a lot of the same ground as 104 also wouldn't be the most direct route from Clontarf to Heuston to have to go via Collins Avenue. Phibsboro would make sense via NCR to Heuston from Dollymount along coast road avoiding all the estates.

Where do these suggestions of new routes like 105 come from anyway, someone with inside word from Dublin Bus?

KC61

markpb wrote: »

Not a bad move but I think DB should be running more services to the airport instead of less.

If the rumour that the 16 will be replaced by the 16a are true, then the entire 16/16a service will operate to/from the Airport, which will be a significant increase.

However that, along with for example the 37 extension to Blanchardstown, the 84 Newcastle/Cherrywood service could run into problems if private operators object.

markpb

KC61 wrote: »

If the rumour that the 16 will be replaced by the 16a are true, then the entire 16/16a service will operate to/from the Airport, which will be a significant increase.

Oops, I wasn't clear in my last post. I think there should be more services from different areas (instead of more services from the same area) serving the airport. I think it's a logical hub for local (Finglas, Santry, Coolock) services as well as being a very large employer.

KC61

markpb wrote: »

Oops, I wasn't clear in my last post. I think there should be more services from different areas (instead of more services from the same area) serving the airport. I think it's a logical hub for local (Finglas, Santry, Coolock) services as well as being a very large employer.

Very true.

However, as I say the airport is a very tough place to get changes to bus services past the DoT as they are hyper-sensitive with regard to private operators.

Ham'nd'egger

cleveland browne wrote: »

A guess would be collins ave finglas road phibsboro possibly

Which leaves it with the problem of getting onto the quays on what is a long circle going; not impossible but remember that there is no right turn at Church Street so the dodgy King/Queen Street is your alternative turn off with Church street being some distance away on it's return leg.

I'd expect something close to Ballybough and onto the NCR where it meets the Airport and Finglas corridors before turning onto Manor Street to link up to the 46A/37/38/39 and the west city corridors on the quays.

Ham'nd'egger

KC61 wrote: »

If the rumour that the 16 will be replaced by the 16a are true, then the entire 16/16a service will operate to/from the Airport, which will be a significant increase.

However that, along with for example the 37 extension to Blanchardstown, the 84 Newcastle/Cherrywood service could run into problems if private operators object.

The 16A was mentioned specifically so it may well be true that the 16 is to be cancelled; Beaumount and Santry would lose it's linked services into the city if this is the case but increased orbital routes should address this somewhat.

Ham'nd'egger

KC61 wrote: »

It sounds like:

The 19 being cancelled and merged with the 83.

The 122 operating from Ashington to Sandymount (merging with the 2).

The 120 extended south to take up the southern portion of the 122.

The 150 being rerouted via the current 121 routing.

Loadings on the 121 are actually empty on some off peak runnings while the 122 isn't much better at times. When it was a short route I always felt that the 150 would be well able to be merged with the 121. Given the extra coverage on the the Crumlin corridor it would be a deft move to merge them soon while a 122/2 would also cover some of the 50/77's traffic to Ringsend.

KD345

Hamndegger wrote: »

Which leaves it with the problem of getting onto the quays on what is a long circle going; not impossible but remember that there is no right turn at Church Street so the dodgy King/Queen Street is your alternative turn off with Church street being some distance away on it's return leg.

It could come from Phibsboro following Route 10 on the NCR, then left onto Manor Street which has full bus priority, down to James Joyce Bridge turning right to Heuston Station.

Ham'nd'egger

KD345 wrote: »

It could come from Phibsboro following Route 10 on the NCR, then left onto Manor Street which has full bus priority, down to James Joyce Bridge turning right to Heuston Station.

That is my thinking of a route unless it runs via Ballyboggin Road and Ratoath Road which is quite a long way to go about what may well be a local route.

Ham'nd'egger

Torpedo wrote: »

Where do these suggestions of new routes like 105 come from anyway, someone with inside word from Dublin Bus?

That is the case, yes.

cleveland browne

Torpedo wrote: »

Interesting that would cover a lot of the same ground as 104 also wouldn't be the most direct route from Clontarf to Heuston to have to go via Collins Avenue. Phibsboro would make sense via NCR to Heuston from Dollymount along coast road avoiding all the estates.

Where do these suggestions of new routes like 105 come from anyway, someone with inside word from Dublin Bus?

You have to look at the whole picture

It's meant to be an orbital route not a direct route from clontarf to hueston.

Collins ave joins all main routes into city howth rd malahide rd swords rd ballymun rd and finglas rd on the northside

The 104 will be nowhere near Collins ave after the change meaning no link to dcu
42 a is gone
16 not serving Collins ave
It's just a guess on my part but Collins ave makes more sense

eejoynt

How will the SCR be catered for?

at the moment it has the sixteen and the nineteens but i suspect that this is a hangover form the tram routing
if the new 16 is to be an airport route primarily, there an argument to send it straight down Clanbrassil Street to Christchurch