Dublin Bus Network Review

yellowbelly

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Does it really take an hour? I'd iamgine it would take 45 minutes off-peak, the 66 is 40.

I take the 67 at various different times the 67x will take about fifty minutes to get into town because it runs from celbridge and not through lucan village and travels down the chapelizod bybass which is great the 67a comes from maynooth it can take an hour to an hour and a half to get into town... I dont know what bus on the 67 route that takes 45 mins off peak to get into town...

KC61

yellowbelly wrote: »

I take the 67 at various different times the 67x will take about fifty minutes to get into town because it runs from celbridge and not through lucan village and travels down the chapelizod bybass which is great the 67a comes from maynooth it can take an hour to an hour and a half to get into town... I dont know what bus on the 67 route that takes 45 mins off peak to get into town...

Well as someone who frequently gets buses on the Lucan QBC in the early evening inbound, based on my observations I would say that the 67 from Celbridge takes 50 minutes or so inbound after 17.30 or so and the 67a about an hour.

You could probably shave 5 minutes off that as the evening progresses.

yellowbelly

KC61 wrote: »

Well as someone who frequently gets buses on the Lucan QBC in the early evening inbound, based on my observations I would say that the 67 from Celbridge takes 50 minutes or so inbound after 5.30 or so and the 67a about an hour.

You could probably shave 5 minutes off that as the evening progresses.

I have not travelled inbound on the 67a in the evening so maybe you are correct but if you are to look at the Dublin Bus timetable they give a journey time 80 minutes to get into town i think the average time 80 to 90 minutes if you are planning your journey taking the 67/a

KC61

yellowbelly wrote: »

I have not travelled inbound on the 67a in the evening so maybe you are correct but if you are to look at the Dublin Bus timetable they give a journey time 80 minutes to get into town i think the average time 80 to 90 minutes if you are planning your journey taking the 67/a

The existing suggested intermediate times are not to be relied upon at all. They are to say the least inconsistent.

From extensive experience I can tell you that the times that I quote above are appropriate.

It isn't that hard to figure it out looking at the timetable....

For example, the 2010 outbound 67 is given 55 minutes to do the trip as it returns at 2105, and the 2100 67a is given 70 minutes as it returns at 2210.

Corruptedmorals

I meant the 67, not the 67A. I wouldn't trust the journey times though- they give 70 minutes for the 66b, nearky double.

yellowbelly

KC61 wrote: »

The existing suggested intermediate times are not to be relied upon at all. They are to say the least inconsistent.

From extensive experience I can tell you that the times that I quote above are appropriate.

It isn't that hard to figure it out looking at the timetable....

For example, the 2010 outbound 67 is given 55 minutes to do the trip as it returns at 2105, and the 2100 67a is given 70 minutes as it returns at 2210.

I agree the outbond 21.00 can reach Celbridge at 21.50 but if you are travelling from Celbridge at 7.00am till half four in evening you do have to give yourself 80 minutes to 90 minutes journey time using the 67/a so as not to be late for work an appoinment or a bus connection the journey times can be erratic.

Victor

dynamick wrote: »

The doors were eliminated to avoid an industrial relations dispute over insurance cover for drivers when people exit rear doors.

Its more than that.

People were demanding more seats downstairs. Fewer doors mean more seats.

A big part of the problem with read doors is that amount of on-street parking meaning that buses can't pull into bus stops properly.

dynamick

Victor wrote: »

Its more than that.

People were demanding more seats downstairs. Fewer doors mean more seats.

I don't remember the popular campaign to eliminate doors from buses.

People demand fast reliable bus services. Fewer doors means longer dwell times and longer dwell times means slow unreliable, services.

A big part of the problem with read doors is that amount of on-street parking meaning that buses can't pull into bus stops properly.

This is a parking enforcement issue and a bus-stop design issue, not a reason to eliminate doors.

When I see a new €300K Dublin Bus with 123 passengers on board and just one door, it makes me think we are giving the money to the wrong people to run a bus service. A child could tell you that it makes no sense.

My car has 5 doors FFS.

Victor

On the too many bus stops issue. While the existing system can tell a certain amount of information about people boarding from ticket sales, its a bit cumbersome and tells nothing about people getting off the bus. AVLS will give a lot more information and may lead to better stop patterns.

markpb

Victor wrote: »

A big part of the problem with read doors is that amount of on-street parking meaning that buses can't pull into bus stops properly.

I used to buy that argument from DB but I don't believe it anymore. The vast, vast majority of bus stops in the city are absolutely fine, even given the awkwardness of navigating a bus parallel to the kerb. There are some areas which consistently have problems (Camden St and Rathmines spring to mind) but the rest of the bus stops on my route are usually okay. I would go as far as to suggest that any time a bus cannot pull up is because other DB buses are in the way and this comes back to dynamick's point about dwell times.

There's nothing stopping drivers making a best effort to use both doors and if there's a problem, asking people to use the front door. Instead DB gave in to the unions and now the drivers can't/won't bother at all (with the exception of a small few). It's not helped by the fact that most of our fleet no longer has a second door.

schemingbohemia

The arguments over single door buses are moot at this stage as we have them, doesn't matter now whether they should or should not have been brought in.

One major cause of longer dwell times are stupid people, I was waiting 10 minutes for a bus the other day along with a few other people, when the bus arrived I had to wait to scan my card while the muppet couple who had been there the whole time i was waiting decided to stand in my way and then and only then count out their coins, can people not just have their coins ready? please.

dynamick

schemingbohemia wrote: »

The arguments over single door buses are moot at this stage as we have them, doesn't matter now whether they should or should not have been brought in.

The argument is not moot because the buses will have to be replaced. Dublin Buses are replaced every 12 years so the sooner the company starts ordering buses with more than 1 door the better.

One major cause of longer dwell times are stupid people, I was waiting 10 minutes for a bus the other day along with a few other people, when the bus arrived I had to wait to scan my card while the muppet couple who had been there the whole time i was waiting decided to stand in my way and then and only then count out their coins, can people not just have their coins ready? please.

You can't cure people of stupidity so you need a more fool proof system. Paying cash on buses should happen rarely if at all. London Buses simply charge double for cash fares, while lots of other transit systems like luas just don't do ticketing on board.

AlekSmart

11 is to continue from Stillorgan to CC, just with some routing changes. 11a/b are definitely ceasing operations from the winter. It was discussed at the public information meeting.

The Network Direct plan is a MAJOR reshaping of the entire Dublin Bus network.As with all such "Grandes Projets" there will always be some items of contention or confusion.

Thus it is with the 11 route.

Whilst the original Network Direct documentation made mention of a restricted 11 running from Sandyford to either Eden Quay or the IFSC, more recent soundings appear to indicate a rethink on the issue.

Given that the Network Direct project is in effect the implimentation of the Deloitte Reports principles it was noted that the 11 proposal managed to embody all of the ingredients deemed negative by Deloitte.

Perhaps the most obvious was the truncation of a long established Cross-City route and its replacement by a none-too-direct route terminating IN the City Centre...

Added to this is the equally difficult to rationalize decision to abandon the North Side aspect which DOES have a high degree of Bus Priority measures whilst retaing the South City routing which has very little and the lack of which has certainly done no favours for customer satisfaction on that side of the city.

The 11 also manages to satisfy a Deloitte principle that routes should where possible attempt to link as closely as possible to areas of public congregation...what better areas than 3 Universities, a City Centre,a Teacher Training College,a Mosque and a college of theology....:)

As the 11 revamp does not fall due until Oct/Nov there may be evidence of a renewed interest in now retaining the cross-city element and of increasing frequency perhaps by a relocation of South Side terminus as the "new" 47 alignment will run on the current 46B route which would take care of Kilmacud.

As it stands there is a little breathing space in which a compromise may yet emerge.

It is perhaps worth bearing in mind that the 11 Route has operated for over 100 years with both Private and Public Transport Operators which would make it a real eye-opener should it revert to something like it`s original Clonskeagh to Drumcondra lap.

xper

dynamick wrote: »

When I see a new €300K Dublin Bus with 123 passengers on board and just one door, it makes me think we are giving the money to the wrong people to run a bus service.

From an operational point of view, it's just insane.

I also have a concern about safety. At the risk of brief thread drift, can I ask any DB person's present, whether an evacuation test has ever been carried out with a fully populated triple-axle, single-doored double decker? Passenger aircraft don't get certified if the manufacturer can't demonstrate an emergency evacuation of the maximum passenger load with only half the exits serviceable in a given timeframe (between 2-3mins, I think). Does a similar standard exist for public transport vehicles internationally/in Ireland?

stop

xper wrote: »

From an operational point of view, it's just insane.

I also have a concern about safety. At the risk of brief thread drift, can I ask any DB person's present, whether an evacuation test has ever been carried out with a fully populated triple-axle, single-doored double decker? Passenger aircraft don't get certified if the manufacturer can't demonstrate an emergency evacuation of the maximum passenger load with only half the exits serviceable in a given timeframe (between 2-3mins, I think). Does a similar standard exist for public transport vehicles internationally/in Ireland?

In an emergency there is a door at the back and plenty of windows to be taken care of by the hammers.

wayne040576

Is there anywhere you can read a full list of changes to come in the next month or so?

I overheard the driver this morning saying some of the citywest\Tallaght buses were getting moved\removed (apparently from 8th June). Nothing about it on the DB site so I don't know how true it is.

KC61

wayne040576 wrote: »

Is there anywhere you can read a full list of changes to come in the next month or so?

I overheard the driver this morning saying some of the citywest\Tallaght buses were getting moved\removed (apparently from 8th June). Nothing about it on the DB site so I don't know how true it is.

No - the review is being implemented in phases.

All that has been officially announced so far are the changes to the Blanchardstown, Stillorgan and Lucan QBCs, which are being implemented in July.

No other changes have been officially announced, and any other changes will not be happening until later in the year.

As such nothing will be happening in June as you were led to believe.

wayne040576

KC61 wrote: »

No - the review is being implemented in phases.

All that has been officially announced so far are the changes to the Blanchardstown, Stillorgan and Lucan QBCs, which are being implemented in July.

No other changes have been officially announced, and any other changes will not be happening until later in the year.

As such nothing will be happening in June as you were led to believe.

Thanks. Just wanted to make sure.

AlekSmart

At the risk of brief thread drift, can I ask any DB person's present, whether an evacuation test has ever been carried out with a fully populated triple-axle, single-doored double decker?

Xper,you can be reassured that the Dublin-Bus fleet meet all the current National and International standards regarding accident survivability and evacuation.

Dublin Fire Brigade regularly utilize Dublin Bus vehicles and facilities to carry out training and familiarization drills for their members,as do the Gardai.

stovelid

KC61 wrote: »

Murhaph - you are missing an important part of that piece from Ham'nd'egger:

I would read that as a peak hour service will operate to/from the city.

I would hope that this is what it means. I live in Saggart and use the 69 and while (imo) it is underused off-peak from what I can see but there is definitely justification (and passengers) for a direct on-peak commuter service to town for Saggart/Rathcoole.

KC61

stovelid wrote: »

I would hope that this is what it means. I live in Saggart and use the 69 and while (imo) it is underused off-peak from what I can see but there is definitely justification (and passengers) for a direct on-peak commuter service to town for Saggart/Rathcoole.

I would see no reason to remove the peak service whatsoever - everything that we've seen so far of these proposals has been to reflect passenger demand.

BenShermin

There are Sinn Fein posters all over Ballyfermot at the moment claiming that "Dublin Bus Abandons Ballyfermot". The poster invites people to attend a meeting tonight with SF TD Aengus Ó Snodaigh and a Dublin Bus spokesperson. The location is the Ballyfermot Civic Centre (I think).

I consulted my dictionary, the word abandon actually means a new 30 minute frequency bus and new connections to the south and north inner city.

Bazzer2

Typical scaremongering by the Shinners. Ballyfermot would have had a bus link direct to O'Connell Street and up to Parnell Square years ago with a plan to move the 78 and 79 routes up to Summerhill.

People actually thought they were losing their terminus on Aston Quay, when in reality it would have only become another stop along the route, with the same service frequency.

As a result, people put pressure on their local representatives, who then put pressure on Dublin Bus, and the plan was dropped.

KD345

BenShermin wrote: »

There are Sinn Fein posters all over Ballyfermot at the moment claiming that "Dublin Bus Abandons Ballyfermot". The poster invites people to attend a meeting tonight with SF TD Aengus Ó Snodaigh and a Dublin Bus spokesperson. The location is the Ballyfermot Civic Centre (I think).

I consulted my dictionary, the word abandon actually means a new 30 minute frequency bus and new connections to the south and north inner city.

Hopefully he will be equally active in informing residents of the revised route 26 offering a new direct route to the city, and that the 79 will now travel across the city, giving Ballyfermot a direct link to Busaras, Connolly, Fairview and Malahide Road. :rolleyes:

robbie_998

Ham'n'dagger wrote:

Some more information I have seen in relation to the proposed route review as follows; some big developments.....

• 16A will no longer serve Beaumount. Route 17A will run via Beaumount Hospital. A new route, 105 will run from Clontarf to Heuston but it will not serve the city centre area. The 41C will not serve Swords Manor.

N/A to me

Ham'n'dagger wrote:

[*]121 will be cancelled as will the 13A, 25X and the 39X.

N/A to me but at the same time the 121 does the same thing as the 122 except they just kinda stop around the corner from each other.

Ham'n'dagger wrote:

[*]The 4/4A will be extended to Dun Laoghaire and will continue to run from Harristown. The 46A will no longer serve Monkstown Farm while the 39A will terminate at Belfield.

N/A to me

Ham'n'dagger wrote:

[*]Route 83 will not serve Finglas Village; some services will serve Rivermede estate.

N/A to me

Ham'n'dagger wrote:

[*]After arriving at Westmoreland Street the 78A Route will operate via O’Connell Street, Dorset Street, Whitworth Road and Glasnevin Cemetery. From here it will run through Cardiffbridge and south Finglas, West and North Finglas before terminating in the village.

N/A to me but Liffey Valley are gonna be pissed... a lot of people from neilstown/ronans town do use that bus and use it a lot but i do recall a protest of some kind a few years ago because DB tried to cut a few buses of the route a day which i thought "good" simply because when your sitting outside liffey valley trying to get home to the top end of clondalkin village on a 76 about 3-5 of those fecking 78A's pass you while you wait for any kind of 76/A/B.

Ham'n'dagger wrote:

[*]The 79A will run from Parkwest proceed down the same route to Clifton Road, Oranmore Road, Spiddal Park, back down the Clifton Road and hence normal route to Ormond Quay and Liberty Hall. From here it will serve Amiens Street, North Strand, Fairview, Malahide Road and Kilmore via Beaumont Hospital.

N/A to me but sounds nice.

Ham'n'dagger wrote:

[*]The 76 from Tallaght will run as normal to B&Q Superstore at Coldcut, Liffey Valley Shopping Centre, the N 4 at the Arc, the M50, up onto the N3 and into Blanchardstown Shopping Centre where it will meet the 17A. It will no longer run via Ballyfermot.

Deadly - the only service to BTSC was the 76B (i think) which only comes like every 4 hours or something. I think this change is like the best because liffey valley is just needed to me for pleasure and work.

One question though - is this information right ? i was on a bus one day going to "d valley" and a "young one" asked the driver "is it true dat d buses r nt going thru ballyier ne more ???" and the driver said " nah its all just rumors "... whats your thought on that ?

Ham'n'dagger wrote:

[*]The new 166 will run from Liffey Valley, onto the N4 to Woodies, the Outer Ring Road, Grange Castle, City West, Blessington Road and through Tallaght to the Square.

N/A to me but cool

Ham'n'dagger wrote:

[*]Route 51 and 51C will be cancelled. The current 51B route should remain in place. The 151 will continue as normal with the Kishogue extension planned for the near future.

soo their putting the route back to the way it used to be before ? which again i didn't see the point to the C because they both go the same way until they got to Clondalkin village. but yeah im cool with that one.

Ham'n'dagger wrote:

[*]Routes 68 & 69 will become a feeder route service from The Red Cow LUAS Terminus to Newcastle and Rathcoole with some workings into town. The proposed route for the 68 will run via Cherrywood as per the 51C route.

so we have to pay for the bus and then pay for the luas ? hhmmmmm :cool:

i like this service cos its actually quite fast getting into town with very little stops.

Ham'n'dagger wrote:

There is no word on timetables for any of these routes as of yet.

indeed.

All i want from DB is a bus to Town and Liffey Valley and i'm happy

KD345

Robbie, as far as I can tell there is no change to the 78A southside. It is simply being extended to serve North Dublin. The plans for Ballyfermot are still bekng finalised so nothing is certain yet.

Dyr

Just heard from someone who was waiting on a bus from wicklow that never showed up t6his morning because the route was cancelled, lovely more streamlined service that. Way to go dublin bus. :rolleyes:

Cookie_Monster

Bambi wrote: »

Just heard from someone who was waiting on a bus from wicklow that never showed up t6his morning because the route was cancelled, lovely more streamlined service that. Way to go dublin bus. :rolleyes:

no routes have been cancelled as yet. Probably just didn't run for the usual mystery reasons.

AlekSmart

Just heard from someone who was waiting on a bus from wicklow that never showed up t6his morning because the route was cancelled :eek: , lovely more streamlined service that. Way to go dublin bus.
__________________

Hi Bambi....The Garden of Ireland is a big one...whereabouts was the someone waitin and what root are we talkin about...?

Cookie_Monster

AlekSmart wrote: »

Hi Bambi....The Garden of Ireland is a big one...whereabouts was the someone waitin and what root are we talkin about...?

DB in Wicklow thats infrequent enough and a commuting route. I'd imagine 84, 84x or 184. The rest are frequent enough.
EDIT: maybe 44 too