Dublin Bus Network Review

Stevek101

The implementation of Phase 1 apparently has been pushed back till late August :rolleyes: Here we go...

markpb

Stevek101 wrote: »

The implementation of Phase 1 apparently has been pushed back till late August :rolleyes: Here we go...

I'd rather they did it late and did it well than hurry to get it done on time.

Cookie_Monster

markpb wrote: »

I'd rather they did it late and did it well than hurry to get it done on time.

sure its only 10 years overdue anyway. Whats another months or two.

richardjjd

KC61 wrote: »

I am quite sure that we will get plenty of notice of the changes.

The dates are not cast in stone as there are so many variables - Customer consultations, NTA approval, driver roster changes.

I'd imagine it may be early August at this stage when phase 1 happens, but I think people need to be patient as this is a massive task.

It is, absolutely, a massive task and one that's a long time coming - its better to get it right than get it quick!

However, Dublin Bus have a record as appallingly poor communicators. The network review - the most significant change in DB routing for many years - was a great opportunity to change that perception. While they started well with the new section about the network review on the website, public engagement and so on, things have quickly returned to normal.

No-one would have an issue with DB for pushing the deadline out in order to improve future service, but regular updates for bus users is a reasonable expectation.

The publicly available information (e.g. the website) has been unchanged since early May. They are still talking about planning to hold public meetings which took place more than 2 months ago:

Over the coming months Dublin Bus will be holding local meetings to inform customers of planned changes. These changes will happen on a phased basis, beginning in mid 2010.

While they are undertaking a mammoth task, and one which will bring benefit to many bus users, a critical element - public communications - is either under resourced or ignored.

KC61

richardjjd wrote: »

It is, absolutely, a massive task and one that's a long time coming - its better to get it right than get it quick!

However, Dublin Bus have a record as appallingly poor communicators. The network review - the most significant change in DB routing for many years - was a great opportunity to change that perception. While they started well with the new section about the network review on the website, public engagement and so on, things have quickly returned to normal.

No-one would have an issue with DB for pushing the deadline out in order to improve future service, but regular updates for bus users is a reasonable expectation.

The publicly available information (e.g. the website) has been unchanged since early May. They are still talking about planning to hold public meetings which took place more than 2 months ago:

Over the coming months Dublin Bus will be holding local meetings to inform customers of planned changes. These changes will happen on a phased basis, beginning in mid 2010.

While they are undertaking a mammoth task, and one which will bring benefit to many bus users, a critical element - public communications - is either under resourced or ignored.

To be honest I would not disagree with you...

oneweb

They'll have notices on the affected bus stops, right?

When the 130 route was decommissioned, i used to see some poor sods waiting at the clontarf dart station stop for something that was never going to come along. Not even so much as a scrap of paper to advise that it wasn't being served anymore or where the next nearest stop or alternative route was.

sassypsych

Dublin Bus told me yesterday that their customers will be given a 2 week notice of when the changes are due to take effect.

KC61

Under the NTA contract Dublin Bus is obliged to do the following:

Major timetable changes will be announced on the website as early as possible, and not less than 5 working days in advance of the change taking place.

Therefore the company is legally obliged to give advance notice or else be fined for non-compliance by the NTA.

markpb

KC61 wrote: »

Major timetable changes will be announced on the website as early as possible, and not less than 5 working days in advance of the change taking place.

Plenty of people never check the DB website and plenty more never look at the timetable because it has no relevance to them. I really do hope DB go above and beyond the bare minimum with this.

thomasj

sassypsych wrote: »

Dublin Bus told me yesterday that their customers will be given a 2 week notice of when the changes are due to take effect.

Fair enough, but i was told yesterday by customer service the changes would be happening sunday and that the timetables would not be out until towards the weekend so not to cause confusion. Confusion is an understatement

I could take the delay as long as the changes ar brought in before the end of the school holidays

KC61

thomasj wrote: »

Fair enough, but i was told yesterday by customer service the changes would be happening sunday and that the timetables would not be out until towards the weekend so not to cause confusion.

I could take the delay as long as the changes ar brought in before the end of the school holidays

Well given that the drivers have yet to vote on their new rosters that could be a bit difficult!

I understand that they are not voting until July 29th.

markpb

I just got this by email from DB ND team:

DB wrote:

A final date for implementation of Phase 1 has yet to be finalised, however customers will be given at least two weeks notice of the service changes. Once Phase 1 has been implemented, the next phases will be implemented on a 2-3 monthly basis over the next twelve months.

They also said:

DB wrote:

I can also confirm that the proposal for all Route 17a is that it will serve Beaumont Hospital.

I'm very annoyed by that, Beaumont is terribly unsuited to bus operations. The roads are too narrow, the turns are too tight and there is no parking enforcement in the bus loading area. It will add a long time to the route, deviate from only-just-constructed bus lane on Oscar Traynor and can't serve Clonshaugh industrial estate. Anytime I've been on the 27b going through Beaumont, only a very small number of people board/get-off. I can't see the logic behind this at all.

KC61

markpb wrote: »

Anytime I've been on the 27b going through Beaumont, only a very small number of people board/get-off. I can't see the logic behind this at all.

Given the 27b and 17a are serving completely different markets, that observation is somewhat irrelevant. Maybe the results of customer demand have dictated that there is a desire for another orbital service to serve the hospital.

oneweb

markpb wrote: »

<snip>They need to swamp the buses night and day with flyers about the changes that will happen, especially routes like the 746 that are being cancelled. It's not enough to assume people will have checked the website. <snip>

sassypsych wrote: »

Dublin Bus told me yesterday that their customers will be given a 2 week notice of when the changes are due to take effect.

KC61 wrote: »

Under the NTA contract Dublin Bus is obliged to do the following:

Major timetable changes will be announced on the website as early as possible, and not less than 5 working days in advance of the change taking place.<snip>

markpb wrote: »

Plenty of people never check the DB website and plenty more never look at the timetable because it has no relevance to them. I really do hope DB go above and beyond the bare minimum with this.

Exactly as above, and further to my earlier post, many people still don't have any idea that the bus routes are changing. It's really not something as simple as just using a different route - it's the extra time taken getting to a new stop etc. It's great that there are public consultations going on, hopefully many of the oversights will be rectified.

As others have said, most people never check dublinbus.ie which, to be honest, is a very good site since they rebranded it a while back. I'd also imagine that a lot of people wouldn't use the bus for a period of two weeks and could very easily miss the notification period.

"Your bus service is changing..." That's all that's needed, on the busses and in the suburban papers. They know it's going to happen, so they'll be inclined to keep an eye out for any further notices. Someone keeps asking me every time I see them 'cos they haven't seen or heard anything about it yet.

Stevek101 wrote: »

The implementation of Phase 1 apparently has been pushed back till late August :rolleyes: Here we go...

Not exactly the very best of times to be changing the bus service what with the schools re-opening...

jack presley

oneweb wrote: »

They'll have notices on the affected bus stops, right?

.

For a couple of days anyway until the local scumbags tear them off.

Tourman

I notice that Mr O Toole's article cites a rise in car usage beside a note of Bus passenger numbers decline, which would give the impression that passengers left public transport for their car. I would suggest that one has very little to do with the other and the principle reason passenger numbers on buses dropped at this time is because of the introduction in 2004 of the Luas tram system which carries approx. 30million passengers a year. Given this very pertinent information it seems that the performance of Dublin Bus has held up reasonable well.

BatesDarren

I agree with Tourman. Why the hell would anyone want a private car is beyond me. I have a question though, if there is going to be Real Time bus timetables, how are they going to put them on the single-pole bus stops?

Darren

Cookie_Monster

BatesDarren wrote: »

. Why the hell would anyone want a private car is beyond me.

:rolleyes:

liger

BatesDarren wrote: »

I agree with Tourman. Why the hell would anyone want a private car is beyond me. I have a question though, if there is going to be Real Time bus timetables, how are they going to put them on the single-pole bus stops?

Darren

They wont be on all the stops, just the busy ones like foxrock church on the N11.

The trial run is up on the howth or malahide road and they look similar to this :

robbie_998

liger wrote: »

They wont be on all the stops, just the busy ones like foxrock church on the N11.

The trial run is up on the howth or malahide road and they look similar to this :

and are they gonna be going through the gps system somehow to say how long the bus will be or will it just be a countdown timer from the timetable ?

explain :pac:

Tourman

As far as I am aware, the issue of real time passenger information( rtpi) is a Dublin City Council Issue. Dublin Bus have opprox 5000 bus stops but there will only be 500 rtpi signs. Information at other stops will be by text. though not the same system that is in place at the moment that only tells you when a bus is due to leave a terminus. The new text service will also be real time for the stop in question.

Tourman

robbie_998 wrote: »

and are they gonna be going through the gps system somehow to say how long the bus will be or will it just be a countdown timer from the timetable ?

explain :pac:

Hi Robbie_998 there is a gps factor in the new system but I don't think its quite that simple.The new system will have to take into account multiple other calculations such as average speed of bus due time previous bus took to cover the distance and average time to cover the distance at the time in question. Other variables such as accidents that cause hold ups and Bus break downs will also impact on the system. The rtpi will not be the panacia and probably can't be as accurate as the ones for the Dart and Luas has they have a dedicated space and don't ,buy and large have to share with other road users, but it will be a giant leap in customer service for DB

robbie_998

Tourman wrote: »

Hi Robbie_998 there is a gps factor in the new system but I don't think its quite that simple.The new system will have to take into account multiple other calculations such as average speed of bus due time previous bus took to cover the distance and average time to cover the distance at the time in question. Other variables such as accidents that cause hold ups and Bus break downs will also impact on the system. The rtpi will not be the panacia and probably can't be as accurate as the ones for the Dart and Luas has they have a dedicated space and don't ,buy and large have to share with other road users, but it will be a giant leap in customer service for DB

nice answer

could it be a situation that the sign will say "5mins" and in 5 mins time it could say "3mins" ?

so the times will be fluctuating ?

would it not also be sensible to have a kind of system where the bus pass's a stop it triggers something to say where it is instead ?
after all bus stops are quite close together.

just seems there are quite a few ways to do this.

Tourman

robbie_998 wrote: »

nice answer

could it be a situation that the sign will say "5mins" and in 5 mins time it could say "3mins" ?

so the times will be fluctuating ?

would it not also be sensible to have a kind of system where the bus pass's a stop it triggers something to say where it is instead ?
after all bus stops are quite close together.

just seems there are quite a few ways to do this.

The fluctuations will be an issue from time to time but not in general. The system that is being implemented is probably the best even though not perfect. Its no good knowing that a bus is at stop x but no idea were stop x is or how long it will take to get from x to where we are now.

markpb

robbie_998 wrote: »

would it not also be sensible to have a kind of system where the bus pass's a stop it triggers something to say where it is instead? after all bus stops are quite close together.

The problem isn't knowing where the buses are (GPS solves that problem quite nicely and much more cheaply than networking 11,000 bus stops) but predicting how long the bus will take to get from where it is to where you are isn't all that easy and verges on voodoo. All it can do is calculate that it's x meters away and it's travelling at y kph so it will take z minutes. A very good system could remember that buses at the same point at the same time of day generally took z+2 minutes in the past and account for that but I'm not sure if any systems go that far.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Dyr

Tourman wrote: »

I notice that Mr O Toole's article cites a rise in car usage beside a note of Bus passenger numbers decline, which would give the impression that passengers left public transport for their car. I would suggest that one has very little to do with the other and the principle reason passenger numbers on buses dropped at this time is because of the introduction in 2004 of the Luas tram system which carries approx. 30million passengers a year. Given this very pertinent information it seems that the performance of Dublin Bus has held up reasonable well.

I think the pertinent question would be how well DB are doing in areas where there are now credible alternatives to the bus monopoly.

Tourman

Bambi wrote: »

I think the pertinent question would be how well DB are doing in areas where there are now credible alternatives to the bus monopoly.

Credible alternatives tend to be Dart or Luas with dedicated tracks and fewer stops. Where Buses travel along Bus Lanes they seem to have a high satisfaction rate. When the 145 was extended to Dublin City Center it took passengers from the Dart
A lot of issues that arise concerning the bus service delays etc are congestion related.
Network review and real time passenger information and integrated ticketing are coming soon to a bus stop near you (though should be here already).

Cookie_Monster

over the last few days we've seen the first complete row back on any useful change in the 25/a/b thread (also previously 84).

I can see every other route being the same in the end. Network Direct will just be another disregarded report that cost us hundred of thousands with little impact by the end of it.

TSA1

Hi to all..

Could someone tell me what is the target date for implementation of Phase 1 of the Network Direct Project of 17A Service to James Connlly Hospital?