Dublin Bus Network Review

markpb

I was on a northbound 4 yesterday evening (boarded at Suffolk St at 7pm) and it was jammed. A lot of people got off in the city centre so it was a little quieter after that. Of course, the bus was delayed/diverted because of the bridge strike earlier.

devnull

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

How is the 4 doing since the reduction of services? I presume the 4A is completely gone, yeah?

Wasn't nice this morning, a 4 and a 7 went past before I Was able to get on, haven't seen any artics today which hasn't helped, as at least they were around yesterday and I got on one. Driver told me on the one I got on today that they're struggling to keep to time, as the route is scheduled to take 60 minutes and it's almost impossible to keep to it which is causing knock on delays.

K09

4 145 buses passed full yesterday at cornellscourt! are they always this busy?
There was also a big crowd gathering at the bus stop.

markpb

K09 wrote: »

4 145 buses passed full yesterday at cornellscourt! are they always this busy?

An outbound 145 passed me on O'Connel bridge this morning at 8.45am and was completely full. It looks like the extension to Heuston was a brainwave.

Bazzer2

markpb wrote: »

An outbound 145 passed me on O'Connel bridge this morning at 8.45am and was completely full. It looks like the extension to Heuston was a brainwave.

But isn't that what passengers were already doing on the 92? They've just transferred from one route to another?

Aard

Exactly. It makes more sense to reduce the number of route numbers floating about. Too many numbers makes it difficult to understand the network.

Dyr

devnull wrote: »

Yes, I travel on them almost every day when I go to work near Ballsbridge, I have never been on one that has broken down, I have saw one broken down once before, but have never been on one that has.

When it is raining on a cold winters day I don't care how packed they are, I'd rather have a artic come round the corner and for us all to pile on rather than waiting in the rain for 15 minutes longer whilst a couple of double decks go past full.

So you're travelling from the city centre to ballsbridge.. thats about a 10 -15 minute journey on the 4? Get back to me when you're doing ballymun to ballsbridge :P

Lex_Diamonds

Dont usually post here but my experience of the changes has been rather negative. I'm a daily user of the N11 QBC and the drop-off in service has been very noticable. I hope things settle but if it remains as is (15 minute wait times routine due to full/non existant buses) I'll have to dust off my unicycle. It could all be teething problems/in my head, so fingers crossed we see an improvement.

devnull

Bambi wrote: »

So you're travelling from the city centre to ballsbridge.. thats about a 10 -15 minute journey on the 4? Get back to me when you're doing ballymun to ballsbridge :P

Sorry, fail to see the point you are trying to make is? I get two buses every day and the 4 or the 7 is one of them. Mostly the 4 because the 7's have a habit of being unreliable and have a fondness of driving past stops when they are about 80% full as there are more people at the stop than there is room for inside.

A large number of people make the same journey every day, with a good few people also using the service to get to the likes of Mount Street for those who work in some of the companies around there!

Course the overcrowding doesn't effect Ballymun so bad although I know it can be busy on occasions it's the start of the route, there are 50/60 people standing at every Ballsbridge corridor stop in the city centre soutbound in morning peak. It's also not unusual to be in Ballsbridge in the evening peak and see a few buses go past northbound full.

Goonerette

The new 4 is a disaster. I saw a few going southbound during the morning rush hour and they were completely full, leaving people behind at stops in Ballsbridge. Pity DB decided to destroy what used to be a great alternative to the 7. Oh and I can't wait to experience the new 4 weekend schedule! :rolleyes::eek: Once every hour on Sundays. YAY. It's as if to say, "Dear customers, please go and use the DART, we don't want your money!" I don't suppose a letter writing campaign would make any difference to DB?

Yesterday I waited for the 145 for over half an hour at Heuston. Eventually got sick of it and just hopped on the Luas (5th or 6th that passed me by while I was waiting for the 145:rolleyes:)--at additional expense, of course, since there is still no proper integrated ticketing system in this city.

devnull

I know a fellow passenger who actually called Dublin Bus about the overcrowding this morning, and got a call back from someone in the network direct team, who claimed there had been no frequency cuts to the 4, and the bendy buses will all be removed as from this week because they were life expired. They were also told there is more than enough capacity on this route but they would monitor it - whether anything will come of that is another matter, I somehow doubt it.

I think the problem is that the people that have made some of these decisions are not using the services that have been most effected by this, anyone who stood at Trinity College, or O'Connell Bridge in morning peak would know that what they have done to the 4 timetable is a very strange decision and entirely predictable, from the moment I saw the timetable when they first released it, it was obvious it was going to happen.

In fairness I did not see the scale of problems I have reading about with the 46A coming and running very late but that appears to be down to lower running time which is not sufficient which is meaning buses are being needed to be highly regulated because they are running behind schedule. I did however fear that the margins for delay may get too tight, and this may be part of the reason that these problems are happening.

Aard

Goonerette wrote: »

Yesterday I waited for the 145 for over half an hour at Heuston. Eventually got sick of it and just hopped on the Luas (5th or 6th that passed me by while I was waiting for the 145:rolleyes:)--at additional expense, of course, since there is still no proper integrated ticketing system in this city.

You put your finger on it. In a Machiavellian way, I'm glad that this is making people start thinking about integrated ticketing. It's just unfortunate that these are the circumstances surrounding it.

dynamick

What has changed with the 4? The timetable shows a 15 minute frequency all day on weekdays. Is this not how it was before?

Cookie_Monster

devnull wrote: »

I know a fellow passenger who actually called Dublin Bus about the overcrowding this morning, and got a call back from someone in the network direct team, who claimed there had been no frequency cuts to the 4, and the bendy buses will all be removed as from this week because they were life expired. They were also told there is more than enough capacity on this route but they would monitor it - whether anything will come of that is another matter, I somehow doubt it.

:mad::mad::mad:
That's lot of lies and shocking waste in one sentence

markpb

dynamick wrote: »

What has changed with the 4? The timetable shows a 15 minute frequency all day on weekdays. Is this not how it was before?

Nope, they used to operate every 20 minutes each meaning a combined 10 minute headway. Saturdays were every 15 minutes, now every 30. Sundays were every 30, now every hour.

thomasj

Just wondering has anyone got the copy of the first stillorgan map brought out including frequencies saved to their hardrive?

If possible could they upload it, thanks

dub_commuter

Crazy scenes this evening, O'Connell Street Northbound they have within the last hour or so just moved the 46A stop to where the 10 stop is, which is quite sensible, as KC61 pointed out, and someone has written in Marker pen that the 10 also now stops here.

However nobody appeared to have told the drivers and some guy nearly ploughed into another vehicle when he braked after seeing his route number on the stop outside McDonalds/Spar as he did not realize he was supposed to stop there. Also believe it or not someone has put a 46C sticker on this stop!

Sulmac

thomasj wrote: »

Just wondering has anyone got the copy of the first stillorgan map brought out including frequencies saved to their hardrive?

If possible could they upload it, thanks

Here you go, one from April and one from May.

honru

So with the 46B, 46C and 46D seemingly gone and the 46A and 46E remaining, doesn't it make sense to rename the 46A to the 46? Or would that be too confusing.

Dropping the "A" would mean more room on the front display for those numbers. I saw my first "new" 46A them today, man those numbers are small!

thomasj

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

So with the 46B, 46C and 46D seemingly gone and the 46A and 46E remaining, doesn't it make sense to rename the 46A to the 46? Or would that be too confusing.

Dropping the "A" would mean more room on the front display for those numbers. I saw my first "new" 46A them today, man those numbers are small!

I was thinking that myself and that the 39a should be renamed the 10

devnull

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

Dropping the "A" would mean more room on the front display for those numbers. I saw my first "new" 46A them today, man those numbers are small!

Or alternatively they could remove the Irish for Phoenix Park from the second line and have a much more useful Via line that flickers between two places.

Then they would have room for the normal 46A like it was prior to this week. All Dublin Bus services should list via points, particularly when routes are changing.

thomasj

When was the decision to include the 4 In the stillorgan changes and why? I would have thought it would have been In the ballymun/rock road changes. I have never seen it on the map other than the final version

devnull

I didn't see it either, although late on it was mentioned that there would be a terminus change to Monkstown, but Dublin Bus always maintained that there would be no cuts to route 4/A but instead we have seen savage frequency cuts.

Route 4 was never mentioned at all, from when network direct was mentioned, through to the numerous drafts that came out over the subsequent months, although there were a few murmurs, that the terminus may change at some stage, but it was always maintained that the frequency was untouched.

There was rumors I think from the Socialist Party a few times that cuts would happen, but given this parties previous record for claiming big cuts would happen which never did, I didn't really take much notice of it to be honest. It seems to have been snuck in by the back door at the last minute, and even when announced Dublin Bus made no mention of the frequency cuts, just the fact that it would now be an improved service that serves Monkstown.

KD345

thomasj wrote: »

When was the decision to include the 4 In the stillorgan changes and why? I would have thought it would have been In the ballymun/rock road changes. I have never seen it on the map other than the final version

The 4 was extended to compensate for the removal of the 46A from Monkstown Farm.

jenizzle

I used to get the 4a in and out of town, so I'm one of about 10 people who actually benefit from the new 4 timetable and location.

I got a little confused yesterday and today though - I got on a 4 which was marked with "Blackrock village" as the destination and had to ask the driver if he was going as far as Stradbrook (which he was). Today, two 4's pulled up - one with Blackrock, the other with Monkstown. The Blackrock one DID stop in Blackrock though. It'll be pot luck really for the next few weeks as to whether I'll have to wander from Blackrock while the signs are sorted out!

AlekSmart

Angel101 posted.....

This has been handled so poorly,

Without doubt this may well become the "Motto" of Network Direct as a concept.


Devnull posted...

I think the problem is that the people that have made some of these decisions are not using the services that have been most effected by this, anyone who stood at Trinity College, or O'Connell Bridge in morning peak would know that what they have done to the 4 timetable is a very strange decision and entirely predictable, from the moment I saw the timetable when they first released it, it was obvious it was going to happen.

Whilst this situation is cetainly of relevance to thatever decision making process is ongoing within DB it is also worthwhile taking the role of the National Transport Authority into account.

From what we are given to understand,the NTA are reported to have taken over responsibility for drawing up the specifications for the routing and timing of all "new" routes.

It is now suggested that the 4/46A/145 timetables represent the only way that DB could meet the new requirements of the NTA specifications.

For sure there are quite glaring implications with the timings on the 46A route which if left unaddressed will,sooner rather than later,lead to a serious confrontation...not between the Drivers,but rather between Dublin Bus as a company and the Authority.

I base this reasoning upon the hugely increased profile allocated to Safety by DB Management,to the extent that Safety takes precedence over ALL other operational considerations.

As it currently stands there are major contradictions emerging between the Safety Policy of the Company and the actual operational approach which Drivers are being required to adapt as a consequence of alleged NTA timings.

There is a high degree of suspicion that there is a political game being played here to establish "territory" and then to dominate that territory.

This may sound melodramatic,but quite often reality can be far more theatrical than any stage production.

This situation is most definitely NOT something which should be "teased out" on the roads of Dublin City.

Devnull also posted....

I didn't see it either, although late on it was mentioned that there would be a terminus change to Monkstown, but Dublin Bus always maintained that there would be no cuts to route 4/A but instead we have seen savage frequency cuts.

This corridor is perhaps the most interesting in this "Political" context.

There was until recently an expectation amongst DB Staff on the 7 routes of a new "bill" for the route in order to address serious capacity and reliability issues.

Negotiations had progressed and a new agreed roster was apparently ready to be presented to Staff with extra duties and vehicles allocated.

However,from what can be made out,the NTA expressed the view that extra capacity was not required on the route,with,in the NTA`s opinion,enough scope for improvements remaining within the old arrangements.

It now seems we have a Dublin version of a Mexican Standoff on this issue,which may or may not be impacting upon decisions in relation to the number 4 route ?

One thing is certain and that is the existence of an information vacuum with absolutely no definitive ideas or plans made available to Staff.

It still has to be realized that withdrawing 90 full-size large capacity buses and their staff complement simply cannot,on the surface,facilitate the maintenance of present service levels.

However,it appears that mssrs Deloitte know somewhat better and this is but the first phase of their proving their depth of knowledge on Public Transport issues.

However,it does remain a valid question to ask,as to how many of these people actually use the routes in question at the times which are now widely reported as causing difficulty to a LOT of customers

Heart

devnull wrote: »

Or alternatively they could remove the Irish for Phoenix Park from the second line and have a much more useful Via line that flickers between two places.

Then they would have room for the normal 46A like it was prior to this week. All Dublin Bus services should list via points, particularly when routes are changing.

I would assume the Irish is there as its a requirement of semi state bodies to provide it.

H

AlekSmart

I would assume the Irish is there as its a requirement of semi state bodies to provide it.

Sighs.....Heart a mhic,it`s not just a requirement...it`s a stipulation contained in an Act of the Oireachtas no less......

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/act/pub/0032/index.html

xper

I was going to post my own observations and experiences of the the first three days of the Brave New World, brief magical mystery tour of Cherrywood included, but having read the last few pages of this thread, I've lost the will ...




Maybe I could get a job in 59 O'Connell St!?

Cookie_Monster

46c ran this morning from Cherrywood, as a tri-axle no less. running to Heuston, so much for it being pulled...