Dublin Bus Network Review

KC61

It may being operated as an extra due to the issues mentioned above.

There are going to be tweaks to get this right, as there were in North Dublin with the rail replacement services.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

It may being operated as an extra due to the issues mentioned above.
There are going to be tweaks to get this right, as there were in North Dublin with the rail replacement services.

if it is an extra though why use 46c and give the impression to customers that the bus will remain. If you had read that it was axed and then on mon, tues and weds this week it arrived you are likely to continue to rely on it only to have it cancelled "again" at a later date. just run it as a 145, since there is no route difference anyway after the first stop.

devnull

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

if it is an extra though why use 46c and give the impression to customers that the bus will remain. If you had read that it was axed and then on mon, tues and weds this week it arrived you are likely to continue to rely on it only to have it cancelled "again" at a later date. just run it as a 145, since there is no route difference anyway after the first stop.

If they are trialling out these things, then really there should be information about it on www.dublinbus.ie rather than canceled routes just appearing with no notice, as Cookie Monster says, to the average man on the street seeing these things happen with no warning, it is just going to confuse them into not knowing what the hell is going on.

I agree that something needs to be done about the current problems with regard to capacity, but it needs to be handled better than extra buses showing up with no notice, that the route of does not exist, a far better idea would be to use a number already in use not one that is canceled.

With regards to the Irish, I don't buy it that it has to be on there, 70% buses in the city are going around without Irish, only really Donnybrook tend to be using translations for most their routes, yes a lot of buses have An Lar / City Centre translated but there is very little else outside Donnybrook that has the actual destination rather than the second line translated.

The number of a bus should always be visible, I don't see what is wrong with the same display that is used on the 10 to Phoenix Park, although maybe the via points could be better used to incorporate something else than they do on the 10 now.

With regards to the 4, more fun and games this morning, although another AW turned up, so no complaints from me as it was a distinct improvement from yesterday when I didn't see any!

KD345

KC61 wrote: »

It may being operated as an extra due to the issues mentioned above.

There are going to be tweaks to get this right, as there were in North Dublin with the rail replacement services.

If it is an extra working it should not be using 46C. Many people are still getting used to the different route numbers and this just confuses things.

Does anyone know if the 84X to Newtownmountkennedy is still operating?

SickCert

KD345 wrote: »

If it is an extra working it should not be using 46C. Many people are still getting used to the different route numbers and this just confuses things.

Does anyone know if the 84X to Newtownmountkennedy is still operating?

The X is history, it only picked up a few down south but it filled on the N11.

Flukey

After the demise of the 46B, I tried the 47 on Monday. It added over half an hour to my usual journey, so there is no point in ever using it again. There were a lot of surprised faces at the changes in the route, and no driver announcements or flyers about them. On Tuesday I went to get a 46A. That was a bit better, but the QBC was noticeably slower than usual. Funnily enough I think one of the reasons for that is the additional buses on it. So on Tuesday I also ended up later than I would have been up to last week. Today I again tried the 46A. There was a growing crowd of disgruntled customers watching full buses pass them by at the stop. I noticed some ex-46B customers at the stop, adding to the crowd. An inspector was on his radio trying to organise an empty bus, which finally did come. So for a third day, my journey took longer than it used to. So, just as I expected, the improvements have actually made things worse.

Flukey

dub_commuter wrote: »

Crazy scenes this evening, O'Connell Street Northbound they have within the last hour or so just moved the 46A stop to where the 10 stop is, which is quite sensible, as KC61 pointed out, and someone has written in Marker pen that the 10 also now stops here.

However nobody appeared to have told the drivers and some guy nearly ploughed into another vehicle when he braked after seeing his route number on the stop outside McDonalds/Spar as he did not realize he was supposed to stop there. Also believe it or not someone has put a 46C sticker on this stop!

I experienced that on Monday. The 46A stop was moved up to opposite the Garden of Remembrance, but nobody told the drivers, and a bus went right past it although the passengers were trying to stop it. I see that this evening it has been reverted to its original stop that both passengers and drivers are familiar with. A rare case of common sense prevailing at Dublin Bus! :eek:

AlekSmart

46c ran this morning from Cherrywood, as a tri-axle no less. running to Heuston, so much for it being pulled...

Cookie_Monster,you`ve answered the most pertinent question yourself....If the 46C you saw was a Tri-Axle then the unfortunate Driver,if instructed to operate on the 145 to the City Centre,would have only a single way to display that...you`ve guessed it...46C City Centre/An Lár.

When the VT class Tri-Axle buses arrived in Donnybrook it was decided to restrict them to the 46A group routes and the Destinations Displays were accordingly locked.

Personally,I would have regarded these vehicles as extra-capacity,pure and simple,for utilization as and where required....however once these decisions are taken,it can be very difficult to have them altered....:rolleyes:

I suppose the "solution" to this "problem" will surface quite soon,perhaps later this week in the form of the tried and trusted A4 sheet ......usually in combination with a black marker....:o

Dyr

AlekSmart wrote: »

I suppose the "solution" to this "problem" will surface quite soon,perhaps later this week in the form of the tried and trusted A4 sheet ......usually in combination with a black marker....:o

It looks like they'll have to wait for their turn of the corporate black marker..It's being used to write on the bus stops in Parnell Square :eek:

No joke, "46a" and "10" were scrawled with marker on blank square's on a few of the bus stops..

krattapopov

The 47 this morning had to go past a stop this morning because it was full... I really don't think every 30 mins is enough in the morning!

Cookie_Monster

AlekSmart wrote: »

When the VT class Tri-Axle buses arrived in Donnybrook it was decided to restrict them to the 46A group routes and the Destinations Displays were accordingly locked.

what genius thought that would be a good idea at all?
I'm sure I've seen various X number and certainly the 10, are these different depots buses though?

markpb

I saw a southbound 4 at College Green at 8.40 this morning with St. Vincents Hospital on the display. There are no short workings on the timetable so I guess DB/NTA have realised the folly of their errors and have put extra, un-timetabled buses on the route to cope with the demand.

Heart

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what genius thought that would be a good idea at all?
I'm sure I've seen various X number and certainly the 10, are these different depots buses though?

Yes, different buses and garages.

The VT class in Donnybrook (VT1-20) have green coloured flip dot matrix scrolls locked to the 46a group.

The VT class in Phibsboro (VT21-70) have orange coloured LED scrolls and they can show any of the numbers on the Dublin Bus network.

H

devnull

markpb wrote: »

I saw a southbound 4 at College Green at 8.40 this morning with St. Vincents Hospital on the display. There are no short workings on the timetable so I guess DB/NTA have realised the folly of their errors and have put extra, un-timetabled buses on the route to cope with the demand.

Saw a 4C this morning northbound as well, seemed like an extra working.

thomasj

Are the 46as running into much problems at the moment? I was waiting on a 128 at Suffolk street for 20 minutes 6:55-7:15 tonight and in that time i saw 4 145s, 2 10s, 3 140s but not 1 46a. The every 8 minutes from what I've seen doesn't seem to be working

One thing I would say is that it was raining heavy and we know how bad traffic gets with a spot of drizzle but if running times haven't taken into account bad weather then were in for some fun! :eek

markpb

Car crash on Cuffe St at 5.30 this evening ruined the city centre for at least two hours. It took me 45 mins to get from ssg-north to westmoreland St. Oddly enough, the lovely lady in RTCC said that she had gotten no complaints from Dublin Bus about delays(!). Someone in DB told me buses were running at least 45 mins late.

AlekSmart

Oddly enough, the lovely lady in RTCC said that she had gotten no complaints from Dublin Bus about delays(!). Someone in DB told me buses were running at least 45 mins late.

Oddly enough Markpb,theres little odd about it.

Whilst it`s very cool sounding to read about new innovations such as "Central Control" in Dublin Bus terms,the reality is somewhat more prosaic.

For any City Traffic Control operation to merit that title in mainland Europe it would be fair to suggest that it would combine the Larger Public Transport Operators,The Civic Authority and the Police in one co-operative bundle.

However this being Ireland,we have appended the "Central Control" title to a specific Bus Control unit which has no better access to the DCC "Central Traffic Control" Room than it always had.

One can cast a wary eye over at London,where TfL`s CentreComm actually combines ALL of the major London Traffic and Transport players in a single location,where they can interact and understand each others differeing requirements and actions.....

So the DCC Lady`s lack of knowledge of the BAC Situation is,to me,perfectly understandable and par for the course. :rolleyes:

Rock of Gibraltar

At the cornelscourt stop on the N11 this morning two buses with 25X Belfield via Foxrock Church went by as I waited close to 30 minutes for a bus to take me to the city centre which ended up being a 46C

DB really ought to have waited for the opening of the Luas extension before they implemented network direct.

SickCert

markpb wrote: »

Car crash on Cuffe St at 5.30 this evening ruined the city centre for at least two hours. It took me 45 mins to get from ssg-north to westmoreland St. Oddly enough, the lovely lady in RTCC said that she had gotten no complaints from Dublin Bus about delays(!). Someone in DB told me buses were running at least 45 mins late.

If its the 145's were 25mins down by the time we head north through Bray nevermind cc.:eek:

Flukey

Now I haven't been there since the 1980s and I know things have changed a lot in it, but I didn't know until today that Dublin Zoo has moved to Westmoreland Street. It must have, because that is where a 46A that I was on today terminated. There were a lot of other passengers on the bus that didn't know it had moved either. Appropriate, as Dublin Bus cannot see the elephant in the room that is their failed experiment.

My trip to the newly located zoo was after more full buses passing frustrated passengers at the stop I was waiting at and a slower than normal QBC. Network Direct should be renamed Network They Wrecked. It was good last week, until they improved it.

After these last few days it is clear that Dublin Bus couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery and in any case the invited guests would be all late due to an improved bus service.:rolleyes:

KD345

I noticed this evening that the old timetables are still in place along the Stillorgan QBC. Surely these should have been removed by now.

Whatever about not having new timetables in place, having an old incorrect timetable displayed is just crazy. No wonder there is so much confusion among passengers.

xper

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

46c ran this morning from Cherrywood, as a tri-axle no less. running to Heuston, so much for it being pulled...

I needed to catch a bus southbound from Donnybrook this evening at 8:30pm. Thankfully, given the weather, one came along straight away.

What was the marking on the front? "46C" - "Cherrywood"

That wasn't even on the old 46C timetable! This bus just won't quit! :pac:

May the farce be with you.

KC61

SickCert wrote: »

If its the 145's were 25mins down by the time we head north through Bray nevermind cc.:eek:

Sickcert are you seriously telling me that 90 minutes running time (100 minutes peak) is not sufficient to do that journey?

Note I am excluding the conditions caused by Monday's bridge strike and today's crash.

Flukey

KD345 wrote: »

I noticed this evening that the old timetables are still in place along the Stillorgan QBC. Surely these should have been removed by now.

Whatever about not having new timetables in place, having an old incorrect timetable displayed is just crazy. No wonder there is so much confusion among passengers.

Wouldn't it be great if it actually meant they were going to return the services to the way they were? Unfortunately not, but we can live in hope that common sense, driven by what the many disgruntled passengers want, could prevail. Dublin Bus providing what passengers want? Nah, it'll never happen.:rolleyes:

Tourman

I am sure DB will express the view that there is bound to be teething problems with such a major change. But when is it beyond teething problems. As the proverb goes no error becomes a mistake until a refusal to correct it. I would like
DB to explain when they believe the teething time is over because an experiment like this is playing with peoples livelihoods who depend on the bus to get them to work on time. In the current era employers will quickly tell employees how lucky they are to have jobs, and they might be, but they will be very unfortunate to loose them over an unreliable bus service which up to two weeks ago was working quite well if somewhat imperfect. This network review has come about with very little said publicly from the trade unions in DB. Maybe oh maybe a little of what they used to say made some sense and a little hard ball was required to get an effective service a little from column a the management and a little from column b the trade unions might actually be the correct way to do business.

If its not just teething problems don't make this error a mistake for gods sake.

Tourman

KC61 wrote: »

Sickcert are you seriously telling me that 90 minutes running time (100 minutes peak) is not sufficient to do that journey?

Note I am excluding the conditions caused by Monday's bridge strike and today's crash.

It may be enough on some days and not on others. 90 mins was not always enough when the bus had a shorter journey. It appears that the amount of time give to the total journey has been reduced by 10mins and the route lengthened. the 10 minute time saving is a con job. It may well accrue on a few journeys but only for those who travel between Bray and Kilmacanogue and no others. I guess this will account for less than 2% of the people. There is of course a headway improvement for 2 buses morning peak on route to the cc and 1 evening peak (there are 4 buses that operate via the train station at this time but are consecutive which negates the headway problem for the last 3) all others operated off peak

SickCert

KC61 wrote: »

Sickcert are you seriously telling me that 90 minutes running time (100 minutes peak) is not sufficient to do that journey?

Note I am excluding the conditions caused by Monday's bridge strike and today's crash.

It was ok back when we were carrying 40/50 passengers. But a three bell load coming down the N11 stopping at every stop and time flies! My bus arrived 20 mins late at Bray main st, inbound to Dolier only then back out handing over still 10 mins down.

AlekSmart

Now I haven't been there since the 1980s and I know things have changed a lot in it, but I didn't know until today that Dublin Zoo has moved to Westmoreland Street. It must have, because that is where a 46A that I was on today terminated

Interestingly enough Flukey one of the great abilities of TfL`s London Bus system is the long standing and very flexible ability to work buses "short" on given stretches of routes.

This allowed controllers to keep a route operational and on time along the busiest stretches whilst retaining the ability to regulate and make up lost time.

However this was aided and abetted by a very flexible Destination Display arrangement dating back to the earliest days of Public Transport which allowed for a range of Final Destinations to be displayed seperately to the Via Points.

Here in Dublin we have never quite grasped the functionality of this system,which would at a stroke allow for buses to be operated surgically without adding to the confusion we appear to have magic`d up out of nowhere.

Any seasoned traveller on London Buses would have very rapidly learned to read the Final Destination point in the seperate lower display on any one of the old Routemaster type vehicles,which would have rendered the Conductors cry of "All Change,All Change" unnecessary when it was given....

Once again we need to accept that we have the Staff,The Vehicles and the Technology but lack a certain something in how we plan stuff....:eek: :eek: :eek:

Dyr

AlekSmart wrote: »

Once again we need to accept that we have the Staff,The Vehicles and the Technology but lack a certain something in how we plan stuff....:eek: :eek: :eek:

Your man on the 13a this morning who was in danger of being lynched by alighting passengers for ignoring the O'Connell street stop would suggest that you don't have the staff thing quiet right yet :P

Ginny

Does anyone know where the 46a is now supposed to stop on Parnell Sq East?
Is it supposed to be the original 46a stop or the 10 stop? As there's no signs on the 46a stop (there is signs regarding the 145 and 63), it seems the drivers were picking at random which one to stop at. Also does anyone know when the 10 will be completely gone?