Dublin Bus Network Review

Telchak

Was at a particularly busy UCD bus stop at the Stillorgan flyover this afternoon. A 145 came and filled up, I decided to wait for the next bus as I assumed there had probably just been a big gap between buses, so the next one would likely be mostly empty. However, by the time a 39a came out of UCD about 5 minutes later, the stop was pretty full again. I expected, as had always happened with the 10, that 90% of people would get on, with a large portion getting off before it crosses to the Northside. However, I don't think more than five got on :eek: I seen confused looks on a few people's faces, seemed to me that even days later nobody had any idea what a 39a was :P

Cookie_Monster

Telchak wrote: »

I seen confused looks on a few people's faces, seemed to me that even days later nobody had any idea what a 39a was :P

our best and brightest at that university eh?

KD345

With regards to overcrowding, there are some routes which have always been overcrowded. The 90 and 92 from Heuston are typical examples. With the 145 now replacing the 92, it's not surprising that the same problems now exist on that route.

Whilst I would have absolutely no problem advising the Inspector of what I considered a safe passenger load,that confidence may not be present in some other drivers who might feel bound to accept whatever he/she said.

Why would a driver feel bound to operate a bus that had a dangerous loading?

graduate

our best and brightest at that university eh?

In addition to the usual ways of informing passengers, which Dublin Bus does not do with any consistency, there is a large market in UCD which could be reached more directly. They could have asked UCD to convey to students and staff details of the new arrangements on a website or by email.
This didn't happen, of course.

Miss Lockhart

SickCert wrote: »

Im happy with about 15 downstairs but we do see them on other buses packed to the windscreen and gawd only knows upstairs!

I think this is a daily occurrence on many routes! I myself have had ligament damage and bruising when the front doors were opened on my arm in such a crush.

I would usually avoid boarding a bus that was so full. However, I was actually trying to get off that bus having first climbed over the 6 people sitting on the stairs. :pac:

AlekSmart

I would usually avoid boarding a bus that was so full. However, I was actually trying to get off that bus having first climbed over the 6 people sitting on the stairs.

And the correct place for those 6 people was back out on the street where they could remain in the rain waiting for a scheduled bus which most likely is not going to operate.

This stuff is the New Reality and perhaps the Company might be better regarded if it simply admitted that substantial service cutbacks were in progress ?

What is certainly annoying many people is the continuance of a mantra that this is about Service Improvements.

Fintain O Toole,in a piece for the Irish Times after the publication of the Deloitte Report asked how much longer Dublin Bus could convince people that Less was in fact More.

That process appears to be ongoing with a continuing lack of success,as might be expected...?

xper

Jaysoose wrote: »

I just wish they would put timetables up in the blanch area ...

Good luck with that. Its eight weeks since the changes on the N11 and there are still bus shelters with no timetables.

Incompetent gob****es.:mad:

Stevek101

Lucan is happening on the 21st of this month.

Bazzer2

Stevek101 wrote: »

Lucan is happening on the 21st of this month.

God help them.

ardmacha

Good luck with that. Its eight weeks since the changes on the N11 and there are still bus shelters with no timetables.

Now we all know that Dept of Transport is an obstacle as a regulator. But all licenced operators need some minimum regulations about such things as information on bus stops etc. If Dublin Bus were ask risk of having routes opened up to competition with this sort of carry on they might make the effort to send out somebody with a set of timetables.

mgmt

Why don't they put a notice on the old bus stops. Spent ages trying to find the new ones. Didn't know what was going on. :mad:

AlekSmart

My own thinking on the all too obvious problems with Phase 1 of ND centre`s on the failure of the company to identify and recognise it`s own strengths.

Drivers on Routes being altered,if they recieve comprehensive accurate information,are ideally placed to transmit that information onwards and upwards.

There is a tendency to group all drivers as the surly,unconcerned and unhelpful stereotype which if repeated often enough actually ends up being fulfilled.

However,withn the 3,000 strong platform staff there are enough committed individuals to put together a task-force for deployment along the Corridors to be effected.

For example,Drivers on the No 10 route knew very well where the loadings and confusion would be most apparent and saw at first hand how little information was visible to the Customer.

This principle can be applied along any of the realigned routes.

The issue is primarily one of Marketing your product and supporting the customers ability to use the new unfamiliar arrangements.

Placing A4 sheets affixed with sticky-tape on bus poles is not a 21st Century method of external communication and somebody within DB`s marketing dept needs to grasp that fact.

Spare vehicles with large hi-viz posters in the windows travelling along the effected routes with staff on board to canvass stops where passengers gathered would have soon put the info out there.

However it was not even considered as far as I can see ?

Instead the actual work of publicising the alterations is given to office-based people who may have no actual knowledge of the area`s in question.

I`m of the opinion that we (in Dublin Bus) are simply not focusing on our considerable strenghts but instead are frittering resources away on nonsensical attempts to plug the dykes ?

Cookie_Monster

AlekSmart wrote: »

For example,Drivers on the No 10 route knew very well where the loadings and confusion would be most apparent and saw at first hand how little information was visible to the Customer.

the drivers and the ticket machine data too. How they have seemingly ignored both these sources of on the ground data astounds me. Both combined can give huge amount of info on loadings, times, effects of weather, traffic etc etc

dirtynosebeps

AlekSmart wrote: »

My own thinking on the all too obvious problems with Phase 1 of ND centre`s on the failure of the company to identify and recognise it`s own strengths.

Drivers on Routes being altered,if they recieve comprehensive accurate information,are ideally placed to transmit that information onwards and upwards.

There is a tendency to group all drivers as the surly,unconcerned and unhelpful stereotype which if repeated often enough actually ends up being fulfilled.

However,withn the 3,000 strong platform staff there are enough committed individuals to put together a task-force for deployment along the Corridors to be effected.

For example,Drivers on the No 10 route knew very well where the loadings and confusion would be most apparent and saw at first hand how little information was visible to the Customer.

This principle can be applied along any of the realigned routes.

The issue is primarily one of Marketing your product and supporting the customers ability to use the new unfamiliar arrangements.

Placing A4 sheets affixed with sticky-tape on bus poles is not a 21st Century method of external communication and somebody within DB`s marketing dept needs to grasp that fact.

Spare vehicles with large hi-viz posters in the windows travelling along the effected routes with staff on board to canvass stops where passengers gathered would have soon put the info out there.

However it was not even considered as far as I can see ?

Instead the actual work of publicising the alterations is given to office-based people who may have no actual knowledge of the area`s in question.

I`m of the opinion that we (in Dublin Bus) are simply not focusing on our considerable strenghts but instead are frittering resources away on nonsensical attempts to plug the dykes ?

brilliant alek, and i'm not being smart here:D. what about the ticket buses dotted around the major streets of the city centre with information in big letters on them, say the likes of either college green, aston quay, o'connell street etc. that would've worked a dream. jasus now someone from o'connell street will probably rob my idea and get paid thousands for coming up with it :rolleyes:

thomasj

They could do with a refresher course on how to run a bus course from this crew lothian buses in edinburgh

Just to show how they advertised changes to the bus routes and how timetables are laid out

Advertisement of changes
http://www.lothianbuses.com/more-info/news/general-news/444-changes-to-your-buses-from-10-october-2010.html

Bus Timetable http://www.lothianbuses.com/images/stories/pdf_downloads/service_timetables/r49_101010.pdf

and their night bus network
http://www.lothianbuses.com/images/stories/pdf_downloads/service_timetables/NB101011.pdf

One can only dream.......

CIE

Ugh. Why do all the buses have to look the same nowadays? At least the Spa Road-bodied Atlanteans had some character. Nowadays, Dublin's buses are indistinguishable from Edinburgh's except by the logos and paint scheme.

Lothian Buses' website is definitely up to standard though, as are their timetables.

Stevek101

thomasj wrote: »

They could do with a refresher course on how to run a bus course from this crew lothian buses in edinburgh

Just to show how they advertised changes to the bus routes and how timetables are laid out

Advertisement of changes
http://www.lothianbuses.com/more-info/news/general-news/444-changes-to-your-buses-from-10-october-2010.html

Bus Timetable http://www.lothianbuses.com/images/stories/pdf_downloads/service_timetables/r49_101010.pdf

and their night bus network
http://www.lothianbuses.com/images/stories/pdf_downloads/service_timetables/NB101011.pdf

One can only dream.......

In fairness thats pretty much what is already on the DB site. I'd go as far to say as DB's content on the changes is laid out better and easier to read. DB's problem is with the content and information on the street.

AlekSmart

One can only dream.......

Indeed we can Thomasj....and all this from a Publicly owned company too :eek:

Whats even worse is they run quite a comprehensive Bus Service on Christmas Day

Down with that sort of thing I say !!!

thomasj

I have to say the decision to send the 66/67s down the Westland row/pearse street is a good one but they should be doing the same with the 37/38/39/70. The last thing you should be doing is sending low frequencie routes down through traffic blackspots. It's going to impact services. I was told by a driver on the 39 that many services are not making their allocated times, their is war over the new 39 route with people in blanchardstown village waiting upto an hour on it!

What's the point in sending 5 blanchardstown routes down the 1 corridor? Isn't variety the spice of life? Send the 37/38/a/39/70 downnwestland row with the 39a down baggot street

Jaysoose

thomasj wrote: »

I have to say the decision to send the 66/67s down the Westland row/pearse street is a good one but they should be doing the same with the 37/38/39/70. The last thing you should be doing is sending low frequencie routes down through traffic blackspots. It's going to impact services. I was told by a driver on the 39 that many services are not making their allocated times, their is war over the new 39 route with people in blanchardstown village waiting upto an hour on it!

What's the point in sending 5 blanchardstown routes down the 1 corridor? Isn't variety the spice of life? Send the 37/38/a/39/70 downnwestland row with the 39a down baggot street

I work on pembroke street and when i heard about the changes i thought happy days... have got the 38/38a/39 all in the last week and it is taking on average 30 minutes to make it to oconnel street and the buses are generally empty until then.

It used to take 15 minutes to stroll down to hawkins street, why this change was made is beyond me as there is no obvious benefit to going through some of the busiest traffic in the city.

thomasj

The reason they are empty is because there are 5 of them! Talk about spoiled for choice! Like I said the 37/38/39/70 should be using merrion square, Westland row, and pearse street because of the bus lane leave baggot street/Stephens green to the 39a

Jaysoose

thomasj wrote: »

The reason they are empty is because there are 5 of them! Talk about spoiled for choice! Like I said the 37/38/39/70 should be using merrion square, Westland row, and pearse street because of the bus lane leave baggot street/Stephens green to the 39a

The main issue is common sense like this was not applied when the managment decided to change the route.

Its a no brainer that all the buses shoudlnt be going from the same stop and through a very congested area.

devnull

Noticed today they have started taking down the timetables on the 40/A/D at almost every stop, despite the fact the changes are not happen until late November and have not even been decided yet, so we are left with no timetables YET again at stops despite the fact these buses are weeks away from being changed - where is the logic?

Unfortunately at the same time they did not put the timetables for the 17A and the 238 up, so still there is no information on the street since these routes changed now over a week ago, you'd have thought they would have done it at the same time as the above, although the above shouldn't be done anyway yet, but that would be far too efficent.

Also the last stop on Dorset Street before turning onto Whitworth road now at last has a new poster with timetables for every route that stops there. Complete with a map of bus services serving the STILLORGAN AREA! It even has stage lists and example fares for the 46A and 145!! It also details the fare structure, but unlike the last bus shelter poster timetables, there are no stage points at all!

med1

they still have old 220 timetables up in finglas

dub_commuter

Over the last week or so I have been in contact with Dublin bus on a number of issues, and brought up a number of issues I have had with network direct to date, a number of which have been mentioned in this thread.

I have spoken to both local area managers, the network direct team and the head person in charge of the whole project. The conclusion I have come to is that the person who is in charge, is responsible for most of the problems, as he was the least understanding, and spent the whole time defending the company and making excuses rather than taking on board any feedback that I have passed on. Seeing as this person is head of the project, no wonder we are seeing the same mistakes.

On the subject of lack of timetable information, he said that he was very sorry, but this situation was out of the companies hands, and was caused by bad weather which means it is impossible for his team to put new timetables up. He assured me that the new timetables will be placed up, when the weather improves to a standard where there is no chance of rain (We're in winter...)

He also flat out denied some of the problems with incorrect information being placed at bus stops, and that timetables which have now ceased, have not been taken down, and notice was given of all routes changing, he claimed this has all now been done and they undertook a big campaign to make people aware of changes, something which I'm sure the vast majority of people will completely disagree with, he claimed that the network direct project was a success.

Like Alesksmart has said, the point of view about buses being full, despite leaving many people standing not being perceived as a problem, also came across in the discussion, to which the person in charge said that all the problems in the Stillorgan corridor with the 46A and the 145 have now been ironed out and customers are enjoying a much more accessible and reliable bus service thanks to their project.

When I spoke to a local manager, I got a totally different point of view, someone who was listening to my concerns, agreed that there were problems and actually wanted to discuss them to see how things could be improved, and they would pitch ideas to the network direct team. This guy clearly cared about the fact customers were unhappy, the approach that came across from the guy in charge or the project, was simply that everything is rosy in the garden.

It is no surprise we are seeing the same mistakes being made from one aprt of network direct to another, as, like certain people have said on here before, management of this project are not listening to what is being said, and are stuck in their own little world, and have no customer focus whatsoever.

devnull

If it's the same guy I spoke to, I totally agree with you - he just was not interested in the feedback I gave him, and gave me the impression that they thought everything was going really well, and there were no real problems, He didn't really care about my concerns one bit and dismissed them with some excuse.

He also spun me the same line about the timetables not being up because of the bad weather, and also when questioned on the 38C, which there was no notice of anywhere that it would be canceled (not that it bothers me, but it still should be advertised), he claimed that there was notice, despite the fact the network direct news item about Blanch changes didn't even mention the route, neither did the network direct section on their website.

Right now the stops on the 38C still have timetables for this route, and on Dublin Bus' front page there is right now an item about a diversion on the route, despite the fact it hasn't existed for other a week now, that is sloppy.

Only way this project can be sorted out is if they snap out of their dream-world, because right now instead of listening to people, they bury their head in the sane, as they always know best. Considering this is a public bus network, and they are supposed to be designing a network with their users in mind, and to attract new ones, they have a funny way of showing it, because they clearly are not listening.

Any reputable company would have examined what happened in the first two parts of this first phase and see how they can improve them to prevent so many people being unhappy, unfortunately here we seem to have a case where they simply think they know best and dismiss the majority of criticism aimed at them and repeat the same mistakes time and time again.

SickCert

dub_commuter wrote: »

I have spoken to both local area managers, the network direct team and the head person in charge of the whole project. The conclusion I have come to is that the person who is in charge, is responsible for most of the problems, as he was the least understanding, and spent the whole time defending the company and making excuses rather than taking on board any feedback that I have passed on. Seeing as this person is head of the project, no wonder we are seeing the same mistakes.

Sure the local manager is active on this topic!

There is a meeting in Donnybrook with a guy from head office to discuss the new up and coming 46a bill, from what im told the unions wont attend unless the 145 joke is also on the agenda.

markpb

SickCert wrote: »

There is a meeting in Donnybrook with a guy from head office to discuss the new up and coming 46a bill, from what im told the unions wont attend unless the 145 joke is also on the agenda.

But the 145 is perfect!? The guy in HQ said so, didn't he?

thomasj

They have moved the 37/38/38a/39/39a/70 upto the busstop at the top of suffolk street beside pizza hut

jack presley

The 38/38A is an invisible bus. I waited for an hour on Friday evening for one of these and none came by despite 3 being scheduled on the timetable.