Dublin Bus Network Review

KD345

A girl I work with is considering going back to her car. She has been using the 145 for years and was always happy with the service. She doesn't want to stop using the bus, but as much as I believe in public transport, I honestly can't blame her. She has been standing in the rain for over 30 minutes some days trying to get home and has been late for work on a few occasions. I think the problem here is that the 145 is a route which up until a month ago was efficient, frequent and successful. Now, the customer base who were used to these qualities are now realising the service is simply not reliable. Standing next to a timetable saying every 10 minutes becomes insulting after 30 minutes.

If the reports of the Network Direct management are correct, then I seriously fear for the future of this project. How anybody could consider the recent changes as being successful is baffling. It also highlights the divide and lack of understanding between Dublin Bus management and those working in the depots and driving the buses.

The excuse of the weather is ridiculous. The weather was fine on the morning of the Stillorgan changes, and there was a light drizzle on the day of the Blanchardstown changes. There was also fine weather on the days following both dates, but the timetables still remained blank. You only have to browse Twitter to see peoples frustration over the last few weeks at the changes made.

I feel the Lucan changes could be the one to tip this over the edge. The removal of the 25Xs from South Lucan to Belfield will annoy many passengers, and the meandering routing of the 25/a/b in the city centre will make it very difficult to keep times.

ArmaniJeanss

jack presley wrote: »

The 38/38A is an invisible bus. I waited for an hour on Friday evening for one of these and none came by despite 3 being scheduled on the timetable.

Its similarly invisible this week, 45 minute wait yesterday, 35 minute wait tonight. (the actual time since the previous bus may have a good bit more for all I know, there was a dozen people all ready waiting when I turned up tonight).
It is also no longer possible to know whether you are going to get a 38 or a 38a. Previously it was simple for me, be at Easons at 6.40 or 7.20 and a 38a would be along shortly. Now the distance from Baggot St and the random abandonment of the timetable means you don't know which is going to turn up when. A 38 turns up, should you leave it, is there maybe a 38a behind it, who the fcuk knows?

KD345 wrote: »

was always happy with the service.
a route which up until a month ago was efficient, frequent and successful. Now, the customer base who were used to these qualities are now realising the service is simply not reliable.

Exactly the way I feel - in the case of my 38/38a they have taken something that was working perfectly for its customers and smashed it apart.

I understand there had to be cutbacks, but the way they've done it is wrong.
I'd be happier with a halved service, if theres a only a bus every 40 minutes I'll work my day around it - I just want that bus to turn up close to when its timetabled to do so.

thomasj

The traffic is really bad this morning on the 39a 15 minutes on cabra road/Prussia street one question does anyone think that blackhorse avenue should be an option for the 39/a if the traffic gets bad on days like this?

pclive

Does anyone know who the best journalist would be to contact re. doing a story on the implementation of network direct?

markpb

KD345 wrote: »

A girl I work with is considering going back to her car. She has been using the 145 for years and was always happy with the service. She doesn't want to stop using the bus, but as much as I believe in public transport, I honestly can't blame her.

I'll be joining her DB have screwed up my commute and are proposing to make it worse in a few weeks. They still give refunds on annual tickets, right? I can't wait to get chunk of my €1,130 back so I can put it towards a car.

KC61

pclive wrote: »

Does anyone know who the best journalist would be to contact re. doing a story on the implementation of network direct?

Not really as there are genuinely no journalists with a good detailed knowledge of transport in Ireland and absolutely none with any understanding of how the bus service works or doesn't as the case may be. They tend (like the politicians) to believe anything they want to.

There are several fundamental problems here:

1) Running times are (at certain times and on certain routes) too tight - meaning that buses/drivers are not where they should be.

2) There has been a seriously deficient effort at getting information out on-street in a timely basis in terms of up-to-date timetables.

3) Amazingly, despite point 1 above, productivity in terms of driver rosters still leaves an awful lot to be desired with some routes I understand still having low average working hours.

Point 1 is down to poor judgement, point 2 is down to incompetence, and point 3 is down to marked-in drivers (to my mind) having a veto on rosters.

The key to point 1 is to react quickly and do something about it - that unfortunately has not happened.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

There are several fundamental problems here:

I think there is just one. The ND team clearly have no idea what they are doing and seem to not be listening to anyone in regards to all the errors they are making.

Now the real question is who fault is it, DB or Deloitte. Did deloitte get it so wrong in there consultants reports and DB are just following what was recommended or are DB implementing the basics of the report with their own spin (and plenty of outside help from the politicians). Either way someone did / is doing very wrong at the top levels in there.

The basic point is that no-one seems to be listening to customers, drivers, depot managers or anyone else at ground level and if that continues its going to end in disruption and loss of revenue and custom which will spin into a vicious circle of less and less usage

Ambp

Whose bright idea was it to not have the 39a stop on Stephen's Green? The 46a/145/10 usually half emptied there in the mornings, I was ten minutes late for an exam yesterday as I didn't realise

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I think there is just one. The ND team clearly have no idea what they are doing and seem to not be listening to anyone in regards to all the errors they are making.

Now the real question is who fault is it, DB or Deloitte. Did deloitte get it so wrong in there consultants reports and DB are just following what was recommended or are DB implementing the basics of the report with their own spin (and plenty of outside help from the politicians). Either way someone did / is doing very wrong at the top levels in there.

The basic point is that no-one seems to be listening to customers, drivers, depot managers or anyone else at ground level and if that continues its going to end in disruption and loss of revenue and custom which will spin into a vicious circle of less and less usage

I would say that your post probably misses several points here. I will try to spell out the issues as simply as I can, as I see them. Apologies for the length of the post.

Deloitte
Deloitte were taken on to assess the efficiency of the company. That was what they did and they issued a detailed report in terms of recommendations. I would have said that the bulk of that report's recommendations were common sense - particularly in terms of having more direct routes with clockface timetables.

Now how the recommendations are implemented is a completely different thing and that is not Deloitte's responsibility.


Network Redesign and Timetables
First off, as I have said before, the actual network redesign and the public timetables that have been published are by and large good. There are exceptions, but if operated correctly they would have resulted in a decent bus service.

Driver Rosters
The fundamental problem lies in the rosters that have been designed to operate the timetables. There is insufficient running time to enable the public timetable to be operated at certain times - this is becoming evident from right across the altered routes. This means that drivers and buses are not where they ought to be and particularly where drivers are handing over you end up with controllers having to try to reorganise buses to get people and vehicles back to where they ought to be.

That needs to be addressed and quickly - but the mechanisms for doing so are not present in the company as it is somewhat laborious to get agreement to changes.

However the drivers have a part to play in all of this too. The average hours ought to be 7 hours 38 minutes per day. Some days can be longer, some shorter, but the average over the entire roster should be 7 hours 38 minutes or as close to it as possible - that is the ideal.

However for some of the redesigned schedules the average hours worked falls well short of this, and in one case by nearly one hour! Yet the drivers are now getting paid overtime because they are breaking/finishing late, despite actually working (on average) less than 7 hours 38. Go figure that one out.

I suspect that is why HO are turning down the locally designed revised rosters as they are not delivering the productivity that is required. This company needs a fundamental overhaul in terms of how it operates in order to cut costs - it cannot go on with this sort of nonsense.

Remember too that drivers have a say in whether rosters are acceptable or not - the drivers (on certain routes) have had it fairly easy for some time, be it through short average working hours or excessive running times. There is one route in south Dublin where (I kid you not) drivers sit at the outer terminus for (on average) one hour before returning to the city every evening because of the excessive running time.

At the same time however, passengers are being used as pawns and this is not acceptable. It is not in any way acceptable that people should be left standing at stops for ages because buses don't turn up or are running late or are full.

The company needs to address this and fast, but staff also need to wake up and accept that the days of working short hours are gone.

Information
The second issue is the information deficit on-street. This is unforgiveable and is a complete mismanagement of a change process. Getting timetables up on-street on the mornings that they are changed has to be a given. Putting clear notices of cancellations and revised bus stops has to be a given. Leaving either incorrect timetables up or blank displays for weeks on end post-changes being implemented is crazy and to me shows a lack of understanding of how to correctly implement a change process properly.


Summary
What should have been a good news story is now teetering on the brink as all that has happened is that customers and staff have by and large got increasingly frustrated and the end result may be a loss of custom that may never come back after these problems are finally resolved.

The company needs to respond to the problems quickly, but it is failing to do so, and that is even before the changes in South Lucan take place. These (in terms of the 25x being removed) may be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

I would urge people to try to take the above in and consider it before just simply reacting to it - there are fundamental issues here.

liger

KD345 wrote: »

If the reports of the Network Direct management are correct, then I seriously fear for the future of this project. How anybody could consider the recent changes as being successful is baffling.

It Probably comes down to this, Are costs reduced since ND was implimented, if so the project is sucessful.

AGC

The 39 route is now a joke. Waited opposite CUS yesterday from 3.50 until 4.30 and none came. One came about 4.35 to which he said I only go to Ashton Quay

Ended up getting a 37 just behind it which when it got to Ashton Quay the 39 was pulling out. The driver of the 39 made it sound clearly like the bus was only going as far as Ashton Quay not him! He even had it on the front of the bus as Aston Quay.

Also why are the online timetables not from Baggot St? Driver of the 37 yesterday said the 37 timetables start in Castleknock and Ashton Quay and not at the terminus

KC61

AGC wrote: »

The 39 route is now a joke. Waited opposite CUS yesterday from 3.50 until 4.30 and none came. One came about 4.35 to which he said I only go to Ashton Quay

Ended up getting a 37 just behind it which when it got to Ashton Quay the 39 was pulling out. The driver of the 39 made it sound clearly like the bus was only going as far as Ashton Quay not him! He even had it on the front of the bus as Aston Quay.

Also why are the online timetables not from Baggot St? Driver of the 37 yesterday said the 37 timetables start in Castleknock and Ashton Quay and not at the terminus

The online timetables are from Baggot Street and Blanchardstown Road South. However, there are also intermediate times published from Aston Quay.

However the problem boils down to what I just wrote - the rosters that are behind the new timetables are not realistic - buses are therefore having to operate "short" workings to try to get back on schedule.

AGC

KC61 wrote: »

The online timetables are from Baggot Street and Blanchardstown Road South. There are also intermediate times published from Aston Quay.

However the problem boils down to what I just wrote - the rosters that are behind the new timetables are not realistic - buses are therefore having to operate "short" workings to try to get back on schedule.

To me this timetable starts in Castleknock Village

http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/6431/37(2)_from_Castleknock_towards_baggot_st.pdf

I have recently moved apartment and am only on a bus route now and no longer the train and already regretting it!!

KD345

liger wrote: »

It Probably comes down to this, Are costs reduced since ND was implimented, if so the project is sucessful.

I guess it depends how you measure success. Of course removing buses from service will cut costs, but at what price? Has the network direct project been successful in delivering a decent service for passengers?

Let's be realistic here, a lot of the problems involve simple tasks such as putting a timetable on a stop, or removing incorrect signage from on street stops.

KC61

AGC wrote: »

To me this timetable starts in Castleknock Village

http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/6431/37(2)_from_Castleknock_towards_baggot_st.pdf

I have recently moved apartment and am only on a bus route now and no longer the train and already regretting it!!

That is only the intermediate timetable showing approximate times at Castleknock.

The full timetable is what is on screen here.

The two links at the top of the page are intermediate times at Aston Quay and Castleknock.

AGC

KC61 wrote: »

That is only the intermediate timetable showing approximate times at Castleknock.

The full timetable is what is on screen here.

The two links at the top of the page are intermediate times at Aston Quay and Castleknock.

Apologies KC

Wish they would just sort out the 39 route:mad:

KD345

KC61, your above post is excellent and really highlights the problems. I really hope more people read it and understand exactly how we came to the point we're at.

thomasj

My suggestion:

Reduce the 39A frequency to 10/20 continue to operate to belfield
Increase the frequency of the 39 to 10/15 move to merrion square area or just Aston quay

Move the 25b to belfield reinstate original route run 10/20
Have 25a at 10/15 frequency

Telchak

Anyone know why there's people out counting buses? Someone in a DB high vis jacket counted the number of people on my 151 this morning at Dolphin's barn. Just passed someone dressed the same at on a 51C at James's that marked something on a clipboard as we went by. Reckon something to do with ND or just some college project maybe?

KC61

Annual DTO/NTA census.

markpb

Telchak wrote: »

Anyone know why there's people out counting buses? Someone in a DB high vis jacket counted the number of people on my 151 this morning at Dolphin's barn

IIRC The city does an annual traffic count every November. Someone will count cars and bikes crossing the canal cordon and DB, IR and RPA will provide numbers using public transport for the same period.

oneweb

KC61 wrote: »

I will try to spell out the issues as simply as I can, as I see them.
<snip>

Very well said, thanks for putting all that time and effort in!

AGC

Wonder will there be much disruption with the students protesting about the protest?!

stop

Still no timetable for the 39a at Belfield terminus. Nothing on the pole board indicating where it stops either. The 39a/84 stop currently only has the 84 timetable, along with a Network Direct map.

Is anyone being held accountable for this?

markpb

markpb wrote: »

IIRC The city does an annual traffic count every November. Someone will count cars and bikes crossing the canal cordon and DB, IR and RPA will provide numbers using public transport for the same period.

Spot on. I did it once for IR at Clontarf Road in 2007.

SickCert

The number 10 still has its offloading stop on the Belfield flyover.

Dyr

Noticed a GPS unit active in the drivers cab this morning..maybe they've been there a while an I never noticed them

markpb

Still plenty of bus stops on the Swords road that have no timetables since the 746 was withdrawn (in September IIRC). Plenty of N11 Network Direct posters taking up perfectly usable space. The *only* bus stop where they got this right was at the airport where some enterprising soul stuck a piece of paper over the 746 timetable and left the rest intact.

liger

Bambi wrote: »

Noticed a GPS unit active in the drivers cab this morning..maybe they've been there a while an I never noticed them

They've been active for a good few months now, You probably seen it saying .........Driving....... while the bus was moving. System just not in use yet.

KC61

liger wrote: »

They've been active for a good few months now, You probably seen it saying .........Driving....... while the bus was moving. System just not in use yet.

The AVLC system is in use in Harristown, Clontarf, Summerhill and Ringsend.

It has to be rolled out in Phibsboro, Conyngham Road and Donnybrook.