Dublin Bus Network Review

DalkeyResident

Aircoach also have a case coming up against the revenue, it is particularly ironic if you read the Patton thread and the discussion that multinationals and where there money goes, that this is the case, as it makes the Aircoach supporters stupid.

The only good news is that maybe we will see the Patton Flyer back soon.

Tickityboo

beatrice33 wrote: »

The 45 starts in Oldcourt Drive in Bray, drives along the boghall Rd and turns into the Vevay Road. When the bus takes the "shot cut" it turns into the Wolf Tone estate in the middle of the boghall road, so it skips half of the Boghall Rd, and the beginning of the Vevay rd, in total, about 5 o 6 stops.

It has to go through Wolf Tone off peak

Tickityboo

Dub13 wrote: »

Is there cash to be made from privatization...?I don't know how true it is but I hear Aircoach is making a big loss,now if you cant make cash running a couple of small routes at 8 euro a pop what hope have you of making cash on other routes..?



But and this is a wider problem in the Irish political system would labour stand for it..?

Labour are the only saving grace the country has to stop Fine Gael
Selling everything.

dazmetron

beatrice33 wrote: »

The 45 starts in Oldcourt Drive in Bray, drives along the boghall Rd and turns into the Vevay Road. When the bus takes the "shot cut" it turns into the Wolf Tone estate in the middle of the boghall road, so it skips half of the Boghall Rd, and the beginning of the Vevay rd, in total, about 5 o 6 stops.

Have the roadworks finished on the Boghall road yet? According to the dublin bus website, the 45 was diverting through Wolf Tone square for 3 weeks from October 26. (http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Route-45-Diversion/)If the roadworks went on longer than planned, this could explain why the altered route was taken

J_Dublin15

DalkeyResident wrote: »

Aircoach also have a case coming up against the revenue, it is particularly ironic if you read the Patton thread and the discussion that multinationals and where there money goes, that this is the case, as it makes the Aircoach supporters stupid.

The only good news is that maybe we will see the Patton Flyer back soon.

Not quite sure why you are trying to bring Aircoach into a Dublin Bus thread, but I guess once again, it is to try and present opinions as fact, which is starting to annoying me a little bit.

Nobody knows how Aircoach's accounts look like since the last lot were published, the same way as nobody knows what reason they are listed for a date in court, it could be the other way around, that they feel they have been hard done by, by the revenue, rather than the other way around.

The only thing we can speak about in this situation is things which are known to be correct, such as Profit after tax, was €1.36m to March 2009, €2.04m to March 2008 and €1.90m to March 2007, until the accounts for March 2010 come out, nobody knows what they are going to be like unless you happen to see their books.

It is obvious though that all public transport providers are taking a hit in a recession, it will not just be the likes of Aircoach, I'm sure pretty much across the board there will be a drop in numbers, whether that is rail users, tram users, public bus and coach service or private bus and coach services, thats what happens when there are less tourists, and more people out of work.

However a company such as Aircoach will be well aware that during a recession the chances for growth will be less than during the celtic tiger years, so they may have to take a hit in profit etc for a whort while until the Irish economy improves. The profits they have made in previous years, may very well be kept in a profit and loss account, or in the bank so they can sustain a few poorer years because of the money made and banked in the previous good years, it's the way business works.

Dub13

Tickityboo wrote: »

Labour are the only saving grace the country has to stop Fine Gael
Selling everything.

I agree I would be a Labour man myself and would not like to see anything sold off.I was just pointing out how crazy our political system is that to parties with hugely different views on this can be in Government.

KC61

med1 wrote: »

in relation to comments made as to why network direct is messing up succesfull routes its an obvious answer,dublin bus is been prepared to be privitised,they did the same with bus eireann started cutting back on routes saying they werent viable then suddenly a private operator takes on a similar route and makes it profitable.
remember as a semi state dublin bus costs taxpayers money whereas a private costs a lot less so i reckon this is what is happening

The real issue here is that Dublin Bus, like virtually every other company in this state, is having to cut costs in order to counteract the effects of the drop in revenues. The problem is that in this case it has taken far too long to happen. Most of the network changes should have taken place long ago.

It has nothing to do with privatisation but rather making the company a viable entity. No company can afford to not cut costs if revenues drop sharply. The issue is that the cuts are going too far, with internal rosters not giving enough time to operate the services, and this unreliability may have a negative impact on revenue with people choosing not to use the bus anymore.

I'm not sure where your example for Bus Eireann is coming from - they have been restructuring their network all year.

DalkeyResident

They are finished as a company, like other people, I heard they will make a big loss and I would not trust everything you read about those figures.

Hopefully labour will come in and ban multinations from exploiting our economy.

KC61

DalkeyResident wrote: »

They are finished as a company, like other people, I heard they will make a big loss and I would not trust everything you read about those figures.

Hopefully labour will come in and ban multinations from exploiting our economy.

This thread is about DUBLIN BUS not Aircoach - can you please try to keep it that way?

Jaysoose

Tickityboo wrote: »

Labour are the only saving grace the country has to stop Fine Gael
Selling everything.

God no..you could write all the labour policies on the back of a fag packet.

Bazzer2

med1 wrote: »

remember as a semi state dublin bus costs taxpayers money whereas a private costs a lot less so i reckon this is what is happening

You forget that although Dublin Bus is partly funded by taxpayers, this is the reason fares are relatively low through government subvention.

Is Dublin Bus is privatised, the only way for fares to go is UP.

Be careful what you wish for.

-Chris-

@everyone - this is not the politics forum, and it's not a thread about Aircoach, Patton Flyer or anything that's not a Dublin Bus (within reason).

Thanks

Jaysoose

Bazzer2 wrote: »

You forget that although Dublin Bus is partly funded by taxpayers, this is the reason fares are relatively low through government subvention.

Is Dublin Bus is privatised, the only way for fares to go is UP.

Be careful what you wish for.

If the payoff is an improved service then im all for it. The current debacle is certainly not value for money.

CIE

If the payoff is an improved service then im all for it

That's not usually the case, otherwise private operation would be the norm. Historically there was no happy medium between total privatised bus service (especially with cut-throat competition) and totally nationalised bus service (lack of accountability, abuse of government funds, etc.). The leadership is the key factor in all cases; if you have corrupt leadership, then the bus service will be corrupted no matter who runs it.

Cookie_Monster

DalkeyResident wrote: »

They are finished as a company, like other people, I heard they will make a big loss and I would not trust everything you read about those figures.

:rolleyes:

Dublin Bus make a loss every year they have been around. that is why there is a gov subsidy. If they had to be a properly viable company then fares would likely triple overnight without Gov support. that's how public transport works here.

angel01

DalkeyResident wrote: »

Aircoach also have a case coming up against the revenue, it is particularly ironic if you read the Patton thread and the discussion that multinationals and where there money goes, that this is the case, as it makes the Aircoach supporters stupid.

The only good news is that maybe we will see the Patton Flyer back soon.

What has this got to do with Dublin Bus?

SafetyPin

in other news,
yesterday I seen a 46a depart Mountjoy Square and today on O Connell Street, a 145.

Now, am I mistaken in believing that these routes shouldn't be there at all?

AlekSmart

The 45 starts in Oldcourt Drive in Bray, drives along the boghall Rd and turns into the Vevay Road. When the bus takes the "shot cut" it turns into the Wolf Tone estate in the middle of the boghall road, so it skips half of the Boghall Rd, and the beginning of the Vevay rd, in total, about 5 o 6 stops.

Beatrice33,I`m a wee bit confused here.

Y`see the routing you describe as the "Short Cut" is in fact the normal 45 routing.

The Boghall Road routing is normally only used during disruption in the Wolfe Tone area,which sadly was a regular occurence enough to prompt an Official evening peak-time rerouting.

However this situation improved after the provision of parking bays and footpath improvement work which saw the Boghall Road diversion slip off the radar and indeed of the companys documentation.

I was somewhat surprised at the wording of the company`s response to your complaint as I would have expected them to outline the actual routing.

However,my surprise was tempered somewhat when I noticed it came from "Public Affairs-Central Control".

Not to put too fine a point on it I would suggest that the actual hands-on knowledge of the Bray area operations may be quite limited at a Central level.

I would suggest contacting Donnybrook Garage direct (7034404) where you may get to speak to supervisors who actually know the area you speak of.

If you check the diversion notice here....

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Route-45-Diversion/

...you will find that the 45 is actually operating as a circular service to Woodview Drive via Boghall Road but from Woodview Drive via Wolfe Tone as normal.

From memory,even if operating inbound via the Boghall Road one would serve 4 stops before rejoining the normal route at the Vevay.

I would strongly recommend that you to head for Woodview Drive (Stage 40) of a morning,as I repeat,this is the normal 45 routing.

Please do post what further response you might recieve from the Company.

dfx-

[not really to do with the network, but it's not worthy of a new thread and it is to do with information]

I saw a poster on a bus ad board this evening. It was about priority wheelchair space on the low-floor fleet. A lovely picture accompanying it of the space on an AV/AX/EV/VG, saying reserved and please vacate it when required.

The problem?

The bus I saw it on was RV620. :pac:

beatrice33

Tickityboo wrote: »

It has to go through Wolf Tone off peak

Is 7:45 or 8:15 in the morning off peak? I dont think so

dazmetron wrote: »

Have the roadworks finished on the Boghall road yet? According to the dublin bus website, the 45 was diverting through Wolf Tone square for 3 weeks from October 26. (http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Route-45-Diversion/)If the roadworks went on longer than planned, this could explain why the altered route was taken

The roadworks finished, and since last Friday, the Boghall Rd is open.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Beatrice33,I`m a wee bit confused here.

Y`see the routing you describe as the "Short Cut" is in fact the normal 45 routing.

The Boghall Road routing is normally only used during disruption in the Wolfe Tone area,which sadly was a regular occurence enough to prompt an Official evening peak-time rerouting.

However this situation improved after the provision of parking bays and footpath improvement work which saw the Boghall Road diversion slip off the radar and indeed of the companys documentation.

I was somewhat surprised at the wording of the company`s response to your complaint as I would have expected them to outline the actual routing.

However,my surprise was tempered somewhat when I noticed it came from "Public Affairs-Central Control".

Not to put too fine a point on it I would suggest that the actual hands-on knowledge of the Bray area operations may be quite limited at a Central level.

I would suggest contacting Donnybrook Garage direct (7034404) where you may get to speak to supervisors who actually know the area you speak of.

If you check the diversion notice here....

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Route-45-Diversion/

...you will find that the 45 is actually operating as a circular service to Woodview Drive via Boghall Road but from Woodview Drive via Wolfe Tone as normal.

From memory,even if operating inbound via the Boghall Road one would serve 4 stops before rejoining the normal route at the Vevay.

I would strongly recommend that you to head for Woodview Drive (Stage 40) of a morning,as I repeat,this is the normal 45 routing.

Please do post what further response you might recieve from the Company.

I have been getting this bus for months, but not everyday. Sometimes at 7:45am or at 8:15am. Most of the times, specially when I get the bus at 7:45am, it goes straight through Boghall Rd. except, for example, yesterday morning. Why? i dont know.

Many times I have walked the 5 min to the bus stop before the "short-cut" to avoid surprises, but after seeing that the bus continous along the Boghall Rd. for several days, I get all confident again, and wait on my stop, only to miss the bus again.

If there was some kind of consistency on the route(ie. going ALWAYS through Wolf tone at 8:15am) i would have picked it up and go to the right stop, but there is no consistency at all in their decision to go one or other way.

If I get any more responses I will post them. Thanks

ps: this monring i got it at 8:15am, walked the 5 min to "safe" stop, and bus did NOT take the "short cut"

AlekSmart

ps: this monring i got it at 8:15am, walked the 5 min to "safe" stop, and bus did NOT take the "short cut"

Beatrice33,something is amiss here for sure.

The actual 45 route is via Woodview Drive and Wolfe Tone.

The Boghall Road,from Woodview Drive inbound is NOT part of the routing nor is it included as such in the timetable.

If a driver is taking a "Short-Cut" then he/she will be using the Boghall Road rather than Wolfe-Tone.

You really do need to get in touch with Donnybrook Garage direct to get closure on this.

stop

AlekSmart wrote: »

Beatrice33,something is amiss here for sure.

The actual 45 route is via Woodview Drive and Wolfe Tone.

The Boghall Road,from Woodview Drive inbound is NOT part of the routing nor is it included as such in the timetable.

If a driver is taking a "Short-Cut" then he/she will be using the Boghall Road rather than Wolfe-Tone.

You really do need to get in touch with Donnybrook Garage direct to get closure on this.

The stops listed on the DB site are confusing to say the least!

AlekSmart

confusing to say the least!

Another indication to me that Head Office/Central Control is singing from a hymn sheet in a different language than the 45 Route Drivers.

That Stop layout does not match the Route as operated,unless there has been a secret bus-putcsh in Bray ?

antoinolachtnai

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Dublin Bus make a loss every year they have been around. that is why there is a gov subsidy. If they had to be a properly viable company then fares would likely triple overnight without Gov support. that's how public transport works here.

Why would they triple? The subsidy must be enormous.

Breezer

Stood waiting at RTE for a 39a towards Ongar for 35 minutes last night. Two were supposed to have come in that time and a third was due to leave Belfied in 5 minutes. I have no idea which departure the bus I got was supposed to be, but ridiculous regardless. I've sent an email for Dublin Bus to file digitally somewhere...

jack presley

Breezer wrote: »

Stood waiting at RTE for a 39a towards Ongar for 35 minutes last night. Two were supposed to have come in that time and a third was due to leave Belfied in 5 minutes. I have no idea which departure the bus I got was supposed to be, but ridiculous regardless. I've sent an email for Dublin Bus to file digitally somewhere...

The same's happened to me with the 38/38A (they come from the same depot I'd imagine) so there's obviously something majorly wrong with this 'improvement to the service'. Good luck in getting a reply by the way!

Bazzer2

I've been hearing stories of people waiting on Leeson Street for a 70 to Dunboyne for TWO HOURS yesterday evening, when there should have been at least four buses within that time.

Telchak

Bazzer2 wrote: »

I've been hearing stories of people waiting on Leeson Street for a 70 to Dunboyne for TWO HOURS yesterday evening, when there should have been at least four buses within that time.

Yet strangely, I think when I was on a 39A the other day I seen first one at Waterloo Road then one at Stephen's Green (both southbound) and both were 100% empty as far as I could see

AlekSmart

KC6,posting on the Patton Flyer thread,makes an interesting and relevant observation regarding the 75 Route (Tallaght-Dun Laoighre)

Actually as a frequent 75 user I would totally refute that statement.

It is VERY reliable. It suffered serious reliability problems prior to the timetable change in 2008, but since then it has not had any problems at all. Far from it. I get frustrated when these statements are made.

You are making a statement about an entire route based on one experience. "I had to wait once for over an hour" ergo the entire route is unreliable. Perhaps the bus broke down, maybe there was an accident? Who knows? But as a regular user I can tell you emphatically that it is reliable, as is the 17 (despite what people often seem to think).

The experience with the 75 route should have been taken on board by the Network Direct Team when they were in the design phase of their meisterwerk.

As KC61 points out the 75 was a success from Day 1,but very shortly after it`s introduction began to suffer from avariety of serious problems which destroyed it`s reliability.

It became almost a non-route which was the first port-of-call for a Controller or Stance-Inspector who required a Bus or Driver to fill a gap ojn the 46A or 111 in Dun Laoighre.

However,thanks to some very intensive lobbying by Drivers on the route and a remarkable example of serious co-operation between Unions and Local Management a new schedule was devised and implemented.

This schedule,as KC61 points out,totally rejuvenated the route and transformed it into a very reliable Public Transport option for those along it`s routing.

The main alteration responsible for the turn-around was very basic indeed......more running time.
For years,75 customers had to endure unpredictable and slow journeys which often as not would terminate on the Stillorgan Road with a transfer to a 46A to allow the 75 to "Swing Around" and get back on time.

It is therefore beyond my understanding why a seriously high-power management team totally disregarded the VERY pertinent lesson from the 75`s recent revamping.

KC61 also points out a very important and seemingly ignored consequence of allowing routes to descend into unreliability...the "Folk-Myth".

KC61`s post was in response to patrickbrophy18`s posted belief on the 75`s unreliability based upon one use of the route long ago......The main point being that even years after the event that perception of unreliability is still uppermost.

Now this begs the question as to what exactly the Network Direct Team expect to materialize as a result of events since September 17th ?

For sure,if even a fraction of the reputed 26,000 complaints/observations have progressed to securing alternative modes,then we in Dublin Bus have suffered serious commercial damage.

It gets worse in my opinion,if we accept that the disgruntled,dishevelled and above all ANGRY Customers I met along the N11 Corridor on Friday evening will pass their experiences on to Family,Friends,Colleagues,The Bloke down the Pub...etc etc.

This onward dissemenation of the overwhelmingly negative effects of Network Direct`s "Improvements" rob the Company,and its front-line staff of any credibility whetever in their attempts to make a silk-purse out of a very hoary sows-ear.

The particularly sad element in all of this is why,after a period when Dublin Bus had introduced very effective new services which rapidly became popular (4,123,128,140,145) the company suddenly decide to do a volte-face on the elements which those successes were built on.

With the presence of the ECB/IMF personnel to oversee our National Recovery,I would suggest that the availability of an efficient,affordable and comprehensive City Bus Service is an intrinsic part of that process as the reality of people not being able to afford to run a car,sinks in.

These straitened times really should be offering Dublin Bus an opportunity to expand and improve its services,but going on what we have seen to date I`m uncertain as to where we are currently headed......:(

Whippersnapper

I thought they were getting rid of the 25x, no? I see the revised timetable up on the site but the map of stops doesn't seem to be available. Is it no longer serving the Ballyowen Rd?