Dublin Bus Network Review

KC61

Whippersnapper wrote: »

Anyone know exactly where the 25a leaves town from now? It says Merrion Square on the site but the view map option shows it leaving from Pearse street still. Which part of Merrion Square?? I don't want to be wandering around in the rain trying to squint at the numbers on the stops (if they've been updated yet).

Outbound: Bus stops are located on Merrion Square South (Stop no. 4681 Terminus) - opposite the National History museum, Leeson Street (Stop no. 909 & 786), Dawson Street (NG - Outside Starbucks), Suffolk Street (NJ) & Aston Quay (Outside Abigail's Hostel - beyond 78a stop if coming from O'Connell Bridge)

TheChrisD

markpb wrote: »

Maybe they have weekly, monthly or annual bus tickets?
Maybe they didn't know the train timetable and didn't know when the next train would be, how long the connection would take or if the last train had left?
Maybe they had no idea how long they'd be waiting and assumed a bus would be along soon, especially after they'd waited an hour.

Well if even a small part of the people that were waiting there were Dunboyne commuters, they'd have some idea of the train timetable.

Cool Mo D

I think one of the biggest problems with the new 37/38/39/70 routing in the evenings is around the junction of Baggot Street and Pembroke Street where outbound cars jam up the route from here to Leeson Street. A yellow box at the junction, and a bus lane along the north side Pembroke street as far as Leeson street would keep southbound car traffic from holding up citybound buses. I spent 15 minutes on a 100 metre stretch of Lower Baggot street on a 39a recently.

Also, the junction of Leeson street and Pembroke street is a dangerous mess and needs to be sorted properly.

Another option would be making Baggot street two way as far as Ely place (a slightly tight squeeze, and sending buses through Ely Place and Hume street into the city.

Stevek101

KC61 wrote: »

Personally I would redesign the local network as follows:

Extend 16 from Santry directly along Swords Road to the Airport bypassing Beaumont and Shanard Road.
Cancel route 16a.
Reroute the 20b to Shanard Road.
Reroute the 27b to serve Ardlea Road, Beaumont Road and Beaumont Hospital and extend to the Airport.
Take the 41/41b out of the Airport to route directly to/from the city along the Swords Road.
Extend the 140 to the airport.
Increase the 102 and perhaps introduce a second local service between the Airport and Swords Manor.

What you are saying it pretty much planned to happen.

The 16a is being cancelled and the new 16 will serve the airport and not Beaumont

20b will now serve Shantella Rd terminating at either Omni Shopping Centre or the current 16 terminus.

27b will depart from Castletimon through Beaumont Hospital, Skelly's Lane and onto Ardlea Rd.

41b route will be cancelled and potentially the 41 taken out of the airport.

Since the 3 heads up this side of the city it is also worth noting it'll be cancelled as well.

CIE

Stevek101 wrote: »

What you are saying it pretty much planned to happen.

The 16a is being cancelled and the new 16 will serve the airport and not Beaumont

20b will now serve Shantella Rd terminating at either Omni Shopping Centre or the current 16 terminus.

27b will depart from Castletimon through Beaumont Hospital, Skelly's Lane and onto Ardlea Rd.

41b route will be cancelled and potentially the 41 taken out of the airport.

Since the 3 heads up this side of the city it is also worth noting it'll be cancelled as well.

Oh? What replaces the 3 on the south side?

Bus Eireann have withdrawn a number of services. No BE service goes through Rolestown now that I can see. (Even Oldtown and Garristown are without service now; the 40B used to go all the way to Oldtown once, as an un-numbered service in the 40B timetable.)

Wonder how bad Network Destruct is going to get.

Cookie_Monster

@ Stevek101
Do you work for DB? You know so much about this and everything is stated so directly. I'd just like to be clear since you haven't posted in the conflicts of interest thread

KC61

CIE wrote: »

Oh? What replaces the 3 on the south side?

Bus Eireann have withdrawn a number of services. No BE service goes through Rolestown now that I can see. (Even Oldtown and Garristown are without service now; the 40B used to go all the way to Oldtown once, as an un-numbered service in the 40B timetable.)

Wonder how bad Network Destruct is going to get.

A higher frequency route 2 is planned to operate to/from Sandymount merged with the 120 I think.

To be honest, I would be surprised if the 41b gets the chop completely.

As for the Garristown service - virtually no one used it - thin air was all that was carried.

KC61

Stevek101 wrote: »

What you are saying it pretty much planned to happen.

The 16a is being cancelled and the new 16 will serve the airport and not Beaumont

20b will now serve Shantella Rd terminating at either Omni Shopping Centre or the current 16 terminus.

27b will depart from Castletimon through Beaumont Hospital, Skelly's Lane and onto Ardlea Rd.

41b route will be cancelled and potentially the 41 taken out of the airport.

Since the 3 heads up this side of the city it is also worth noting it'll be cancelled as well.

That is NOT pretty much what I suggested. There are several key omissions - extending the 27b to the airport (maintaining a link from Beaumont) and extending the 140 to the airport (establishing a link from Finglas).

Developing local services to the airport from different parts of North Dublin is a key aspect of the changes required to the network.

By providing those two links, much of north Dublin gains a link to/from the airport.

markpb

Stevek101 wrote: »

The 16a is being cancelled and the new 16 will serve the airport and not Beaumont

Is this an accurate representation of the changes you mentioned?

Stevek101

I'm sure I've said it before. I don't work for DB.

Nothing was expected to replace the 3.

The route changes on Google maps are pretty much correct. The 20b could be heading to Omni instead of 16 terminus.

KC61

markpb wrote: »

Is this an accurate representation of the changes you mentioned?

That looks about right based on what I've heard - but I don't think that the 20b serves Coolatree Road so why would the 27b?

Do they not stay on Beaumont Road/Skelly's Lane?

I can't see there being no bus service to Shanard Road Steve - that would not be a runner.

markpb

KC61 wrote: »

That looks about right based on what I've heard - but I don't think that the 20b serves Coolatree Road so why would the 27b?

Fixed

I can't see there being no bus service to Shanard Road Steve - that would not be a runner.

Ditto. I used to live there and the loadings were quite high. Of course, the 20b is also very busy between Adlea and Collins so I'm not sure why it's being changed. I can't see any massive improvement in the proposals other than turning the 20b into a semi-orbital route if it serves Shanard.

angel01

Stevek101 wrote: »

I'm sure I've said it before. I don't work for DB.

Nothing was expected to replace the 3.

The route changes on Google maps are pretty much correct. The 20b could be heading to Omni instead of 16 terminus.

You seem to be stating so much as fact, how do you know so much of this information if it isn't "public knowledge yet"?

KC61

To be honest Mark the key change is straightening the 16 to/from the Airport. The other changes then are to ensure that people who had the 16/a get a substitute service.

KC61

Angel I can't speak for Steve, but having a deep interest in the area (and I stress nothing more than that) you do build up contacts and friends, and thereby gain information through unofficial channels and enthusiast websites.

There were several trade union documents floating around earlier this year that outlined (in summary form) most of the planned changes which were posted on other sites.

Early on in this thread there is a list of the planned "super" routes - i.e. route mergers.

I tend to stress in any posts that I make that they are plans - plans of course can change!!!!

Ginny

Leaving Malahide rd to Beaumont without a bus route would be mental, its a very settled very elderly area.
Just show what DB thinks of its customers, why can't they see how much of a disaster this whole upheaval has been?

KC61

Ginny wrote: »

Leaving Malahide rd to Beaumont without a bus route would be mental, its a very settled very elderly area.
Just show what DB thinks of its customers, why can't they see how much of a disaster this whole upheaval has been?

Would the 27b not do that if re-routed along Skelly's Lane?

Ginny

Its an if though, it wouldn't surprise me if they did that.

KC61

Ginny wrote: »

Its an if though, it wouldn't surprise me if they did that.

True but if it were re-routed that would solve that problem.

Stevek101

Ginny wrote: »

Leaving Malahide rd to Beaumont without a bus route would be mental, its a very settled very elderly area.
Just show what DB thinks of its customers, why can't they see how much of a disaster this whole upheaval has been?

The 20b/27b will continue to do this route...

Chris_5339762

Removing bus services from Beaumont is dumb considering the transfer of cancer care from Lukes to Beaumont (and James') soon. More walking passengers who could take a bus from say the southside to Beaumont will now have to drive.

markpb

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Removing bus services from Beaumont is dumb considering the transfer of cancer care from Lukes to Beaumont (and James') soon. More walking passengers who could take a bus from say the southside to Beaumont will now have to drive.

I don't think any buses have been removed from Beaumont Hospital. The 17a has been (unwisely in my opinion) added to the hospital, making it accessible from Blanchardstown, Finglas, Glasnevin, Ballymun, Coolock and Kilbarrack in addition to destinations from the city centre via the 27B.

The number of buses going past or near the hospital is also remaining the same with the 27b covering the old 20b path past the Beaumont Rd entrance.

In any event, Beaumont hospital is a horrible location for buses to serve. It has narrow roads (which are slowly improving), 90 degree bends, bad parking enforcement, bus stops on a corner (which means buses can't pull up properly) and the surrounding area has illegal parking, speed ramps (not cushions) and traffic lights.

AlekSmart

I think one of the biggest problems with the new 37/38/39/70 routing in the evenings is around the junction of Baggot Street and Pembroke Street where outbound cars jam up the route from here to Leeson Street. A yellow box at the junction, and a bus lane along the north side Pembroke street as far as Leeson street would keep southbound car traffic from holding up citybound buses. I spent 15 minutes on a 100 metre stretch of Lower Baggot street on a 39a recently.

In any event, Beaumont hospital is a horrible location for buses to serve. It has narrow roads (which are slowly improving), 90 degree bends, bad parking enforcement, bus stops on a corner (which means buses can't pull up properly) and the surrounding area has illegal parking, speed ramps (not cushions) and traffic lights.

Two very interesting and pertinent posts from Cool Mo D and Markpb outlining why exactly the Network Direct plan and the greater Deloitte Report`s conclusions may well be rendered meaningless by events as they occur.

Cool Mo D`s observations regarding the Baggot/Pembroke/Leeson st axis have been constantly raised within Garages by Busdrivers and Controllers for many years now.

Yet in all of that time nothing of any consequence has been attempted to address the very real problems (save the erection of a CCTV camera to monitor the traffic signal pole which was being demolished weekly at the Pembroke St/Leeson St junction).

Markpb`s point re the shamefully poor design of Beaumont Hospital,one of the most modern Hospitals in the State is indicative of just how shoddy and decrepit our approach to the design and build aspect of Major Infrastructural projects actually is.

One can add to this the lost opportunity newly unveiled at Cherywood Luas to give a nice Hat-Trick of stuff for which we have paid for in full and yet recieved tacky half-addressed projects which rarely achieve anything like an acceptable level of the Efficiency so strongly demanded from Dublin Bus by Deloitte & Co.

The major failing of the Deloitte report,given that it was largely unable to find evidence of major efficiency deficits within either of the CIE Bus companies,was in not advising Minister Dempsey in the strongest of terms that the greatest obstacle to these companies maximizing efficiencies was the continuing lack of strong Governmental Policies on Public Transport.

Instead both Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann have constantly attempted to meet and operate to targets and requirements which were subject to change or obliteration at a moments notice.

This is why I welcome the direct inputs which we will now start to see from Europe,where Public Transport tends to be seen as an actual infrastructural element rather than something tacked on at the last minute.

Corruptedmorals

I thought busses had a driver changeover on routes that are over an hour long- 33, 145, 46A etc. But now the 66's and 67's are changing drivers inbound at Trinity- terminating at Merrion square, and outbound at pearse street, the old terminus. The 66 in particular is about an hour's journey and that one in particular would have made it to merrion square in just under an hour. It slightly negates the convenience of the bus going further than d'olier street when it has a changeover minutes before it terminates. Also, I assumed it would follow the route the X's take outbound- down dawson street along suffolk street etc. The Lucan busses ARE doing that because their route numbers are on the stops. But the 66's and 67's are going around by the old pearse stop- does not seem to be much of a point in starting it FROM merrion square if it does not make much use out of it.


The busses seem to be more crowded than ever...throwing on a few extra services would be nice. I hope the 66 extension in 2011 does not mess it up..

KD345

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

I assumed it would follow the route the X's take outbound- down dawson street along suffolk street etc. The Lucan busses ARE doing that because their route numbers are on the stops. But the 66's and 67's are going around by the old pearse stop- does not seem to be much of a point in starting it FROM merrion square if it does not make much use out of it.

The 25a/b are totally different to the 26/66/67. They are different buses, drivers and operate from a different depot. The main reason for the 25a/b operating via Leeson Street and Dawson Street is to compensate the removal of the 25x from South Lucan. Merrion Square is used as there are very few other city centre locations where there is space for buses to terminate.

Personally, I prefer the routing of the 26/66/67 from Merrion Square. It's more direct and has a bus lane from Clare Street to College Green. This is far quicker than the routing of the 25a/b.

Chuchoter

What is going with the Lucan buses? Do they do what they did before just extended to Merrion Square? What is going on with Dawson Street?

KD345

crayolastereo wrote: »

What is going with the Lucan buses? Do they do what they did before just extended to Merrion Square? What is going on with Dawson Street?

All the changes are clearly detailed at www.dublinbus.ie just click on Network Direct and follow the link for Lucan/North Kildare.

Lucan123

KD345 wrote: »

All the changes are clearly detailed at www.dublinbus.ie just click on Network Direct and follow the link for Lucan/North Kildare.

Be warned, the diagram on their website (which was published in full page adds in the papers last week) clearly show the 25A/B have a stop on Westmorland St ... which is not the case. You have to go around the corner to Aston Quay where the website still states "(Stop no. will be updated prior to implementation)"

Tallaght Saint

I noticed today that the 77/A, 50 and 56A have been taken the stop on College St and replaced by the 66, 67 etc.

Does anybody know if they have been moved on College St or does one have to walk to Dame St to get these buses?

Heart

Tallaght Saint wrote: »

I noticed today that the 77/A, 50 and 56A have been taken the stop on College St and replaced by the 66, 67 etc.

Does anybody know if they have been moved on College St or does one have to walk to Dame St to get these buses?

The 50, 56a, 77 & 77a now use the old 25/a/x stop on Pearse Street, Stop CV.

H