Dublin Bus Network Review

jack presley

Stevek101 wrote: »

I've been told that there'll be revised 37/38 timetables in January.

According to the timetables at the moment there is either a 38 or a 38A every 10 minutes during rush hour and about every 20 minutes the rest of the time but anyone who has stood at a bus stop waiting or one of these knows that this is a work of fiction.

Maybe this revision to the timetable will show the hour gaps we have to wait some evenings for either of them to come along?

Stevek101

jack presley wrote: »

According to the timetables at the moment there is either a 38 or a 38A every 10 minutes during rush hour and about every 20 minutes the rest of the time but anyone who has stood at a bus stop waiting or one of these knows that this is a work of fiction.

Maybe this revision to the timetable will show the hour gaps we have to wait some evenings for either of them to come along?

Apparently that is what they will fix. The local Labour politician has more info.

ArmaniJeanss

Stevek101 wrote: »

I've been told that there'll be revised 37/38 timetables in January.

Stevek101 wrote: »

Apparently that is what they will fix. The local Labour politician has more info.

If you have the ear of a politician then explain to them that the timetable itself is not the main cause of the problems - its the route.

As long as they insist on using Baggot Street as the terminus for the D15 buses there will never be a worthwhile timetable - the stretch from Baggot St to O'Connell Bridge will take 15 minutes one night, an hour the next night.

The only way to fix this mess up is to abandon the idea of the 37/38/39/70 as crosstown buses, go back to having them terminate very soon after they arrive in town.

Now if this means that they need to reduce the amount of buses on these routes to free them up for another route that goes from Baggot Street to O'Connell St then fine, not a problem. I'd be perfectly happy if my 38/a was reduced from the mytical 10/15 minutes to 25/30 minutes so long as it termimated in the Hawkins Street area again. At least then there would be a chance of being able to time my home commute around a timetable that DB could reasonably expect to follow.
Whereas at the moment its just the misery of standing in the freezing cold at the stop with absolutely no fcuking idea of when a bus might arrive.

I work in Leeson Street. I'm one of the customers that this new route was supposedly aimed at helping but its actually a complete shambles - I'd be perfectly happy to going back to taking a Dublin Bike or a 46a into O'Connell Street and picking up a properly timetabled 38/a home from there.

AlekSmart

The only way to fix this mess up is to abandon the idea of the 37/38/39/70 as crosstown buses, go back to having them terminate very soon after they arrive in town.

What would you think ArmaniJeans of the Parnell/Capel Street area adjacent to the former IMAX Cinema complex ?

I have,for quite some time felt that there is a substantial Public Transport corridor opportunity available between The South Quays and Parnell/Bolton Street via Jervis Street which with a little application could be developed into a successful routing.

It should be noted that the Bolton Street/King Street region is totally bereft of any public transport service almost as if the thousands of inner-city residents don`t count ???

Thoughts or Observations anybody ?

Dub13

Whatever happened to that mini bus station that was planned for Abbey street...?I remember looking at the plans and it looked like a great idea.

The_Wrecker

Dub13 wrote: »

Whatever happened to that mini bus station that was planned for Abbey street...?I remember looking at the plans and it looked like a great idea.

As with them celtic tigers they were flat packed and stored for the boom of 2025.
But i do see your point, almost every 'little' town ive ever come across had a little area for 10/12 busses to turn and burn. Over here run them north/south east/west but dont dare you stop in the middle!

Stevek101

Dub13 wrote: »

Whatever happened to that mini bus station that was planned for Abbey street...?I remember looking at the plans and it looked like a great idea.

As far I remember they were waiting for the Marlborough Street bridge, although I am not 100% on that. Construction will start for that will start next year, funding for it has been secured.

Dub13

Stevek101 wrote: »

As far I remember they were waiting for the Marlborough Street bridge, although I am not 100% on that. Construction will start for that will start next year, funding for it has been secured.

Was it not conditional on Apartments or a Hotel been built above it...?If so I would assume thats a non runner these days.

AlekSmart

Whatever happened to that mini bus station that was planned for Abbey street...?

Dub13,I`m given to understand that the Bus Bay element of the Strand Street development was to be funded by the Hotel/Commercial elements on the site.

It appears however,that the Hotel in particular has stalled after a last minute change of heart on the part of the original choice of management....

Net result...no hotel...no commercial...no Bus Station....in a nutshell welcome to the Republic of Nothing !

PaulTheMajor

AlekSmart wrote: »

What would you think ArmaniJeans of the Parnell/Capel Street area adjacent to the former IMAX Cinema complex ?

I have,for quite some time felt that there is a substantial Public Transport corridor opportunity available between The South Quays and Parnell/Bolton Street via Jervis Street which with a little application could be developed into a successful routing.

It should be noted that the Bolton Street/King Street region is totally bereft of any public transport service almost as if the thousands of inner-city residents don`t count ???

Thoughts or Observations anybody ?

This is due to the fixation Dublin Bus has with running every service through the same narrow corridors right in the city centre. Your comment could be applied to numerous areas, such as the many routes which use Malahide, Clontarf and Howth roads and are all funnelled through Amiens St; while the Alfie Byrne Road has no buses at all, even though it can now feed traffic across the new Sam Beckett bridge. But this is all common sense...

PaulTheMajor

stop wrote: »

Not nearly as wasteful as putting in new kerbing at defunct stops used by a 14a routing on Palmerston Road in Rathmines. The stops are even listed on the website map, even though the Palmerston Road route has not been used for some time (1 year+ methinks?) now.

There are changes planned next month for this area, involving extending the 128 to Scholarstown (replacing one of the 15 routes) which will take the 128 away from upper Rathmines entirely; however, extensions to the 20B route may replace one or both of the No. 14 routes to Dundrum. Perhaps they intend using Palmerstown Road again?

PaulTheMajor

stop wrote: »

Not nearly as wasteful as putting in new kerbing at defunct stops used by a 14a routing on Palmerston Road in Rathmines. The stops are even listed on the website map, even though the Palmerston Road route has not been used for some time (1 year+ methinks?) now.

Last month they installed the new kerbing in Dundrum and Ballinteer. But they seem to have forgotten to put the bust stops back, and drivers unfamiliar with the route are likely to ignore some stops.

Stevek101

Malahide Road

Ballymun/Clondalkin

Dyr

Stevek101 wrote: »

Malahide Road

Ballymun/Clondalkin

Sending the 13 from f***king tallaght to ballymun!! jesus can't see anything going awry on a journey that length.

They're basically ensuring it will be packed before it ever hits o'connell street (when it winds up packed anyway).

The 13 was one of the few routes that was actually starting to work apart from its p*ss poor timekeeping. Nice one :mad:

Heart

Bambi wrote: »

Sending the 13 from f***king tallaght to ballymun!! jesus can't see anything going awry on a journey that length.

They're basically ensuring it will be packed before it ever hits o'connell street (when it winds up packed anyway).

The 13 was one of the few routes that was actually starting to work apart from its p*ss poor timekeeping. Nice one :mad:

The 13 is proposed to operate from Clondalkin (Grange Castle) to Ballymun (IKEA), not Tallaght.

H

Stevek101

I am sure the people on the 42a/b will be pissed.

devnull

Can see a lot of reasons why people might be annoyed.

Cynics may say though that with it being 23rd December and the weather being so bad, and most of the Dublin Bus website obscured (you have no chance of finding this info really unless you click Network Direct), they decided it was a good day to bury bad news.

SparkyTech

Just out of curiosity, what periods do Dublin Bus define as Peak and Off Peak times? Is it 7-9, 5-7? Peak and off peak frequency guides are provided but not the exact timings of what periods ARE peak and off peak?

starviewadams

69 only going as far as Red Cow?13 replacing both 51B and 51C?This is just going to lead to massive overcrowding on the new 13 by the time it reaches Clondalkin Village!

I also wonder which route the new 13 will take?will it follow the current 51C route and turn left when it gets to Clondalkin Village and head up past Tesco and up Convent Road or will it take the current 51B route and turn right and head down by The Mill Centre?I assume it will take the latter as North Clondalkin seems to get priority when it comes to public transport.Effectively means that I'll have to walk about 25 mins for a direct bus to the city centre and have to stand for the whole journey when I do finally get on one.

A Merry Christmas from Dublin Bus eh?!

SafetyPin

I live in Ballymun and if you time the 13/a well, they always come within their 20mins. Unless there is ice.
The main reason why the 13 and 13a go to various Ballymun housing estates is because the old 36/a (and again 36b) used to service them individually, and the 13/a used to be direct to the city and across to southside (granted the frequency wasn't good). However with CitySwift, they merged the 36's with 13's to have a 'super' route back in 97' to have 13's serve every housing estate, but now they're going to cut it so it's more 'Direct'. Merging it with the 51's in my honest opinion is going to be a disaster, it'll cause much chaos, that I really don't think is necessary, it failed in '97' wants to say in '11' it won't do the same, especially that this journey is going to be very, very long.
Also, does this mean that the elderly people will have to walk 10-15 minutes to get a bus? I really think that they should (DB) try to put in some service (usually they fail, e.g 300) that go around the area at least, and go to some destinations. I guess thats just my opinion.

So, living in Ballymun, there is the three options to Finglas the now frequent 17a to just the village (and beyond), the 104 Clontarf - Cappagh and the 220. Both the latter, going through Balbutcher Lane, Jamestown Road, to the village they seperating as the 220 went to the south and west. Now, there'll only be one bus route. The 'super' 17a. That won't really benefit the people who are accustomed to the low-frequency 104 & 220 and now when it will appear. I do know cuts have to be made and if I 'voice' myself at whatever meeting points DB staff will have to discuss these options, they'll be cut anyway.


The route 16, being just a 10min walk away, is mentioned to being changed with route 20b and the route 14(in the Malahide changes). So will the 14 & 16 both serve the same terminus til the 16 is cut? I mean it's not really fair in not telling the people of Ballymun that this route is also being changed to go a different route altogether as many people do use this route (16) and is very popular in the mornings for the schools around the area of Whitehall and Druncondra etc. Now with the new 14, it'll be going in a completely different route. Is that fair to sneakily put that in?

And finally, the new route 4. What a joke. They haven't revised the Sunday timetable, just seriously, what the hell are they thinking? It has repercussions on the Northside just as the South (just we don't have the luxury of DART for the majority of the route)

Please note, I'm just 19 and I just know all about the 13 merges as I used to be very very fond of the old 36 buses and I remember reading so much about it as a kid. If I got some detail wrong about whatever, nobody bite the head of me. That'd be great, cheers.

dfx-

starviewadams wrote: »

69 only going as far as Red Cow?13 replacing both 51B and 51C?This is just going to lead to massive overcrowding on the new 13 by the time it reaches Clondalkin Village!

I also wonder which route the new 13 will take?will it follow the current 51C route and turn left when it gets to Clondalkin Village and head up past Tesco and up Convent Road or will it take the current 51B route and turn right and head down by The Mill Centre?I assume it will take the latter as North Clondalkin seems to get priority when it comes to public transport.Effectively means that I'll have to walk about 25 mins for a direct bus to the city centre and have to stand for the whole journey when I do finally get on one.

A Merry Christmas from Dublin Bus eh?!

Can we run a betting system on loads for the 68? It is reasonably low as it is at the minute...I'll go with 5 people. You'd think Dublin Bus would learn from the catastrophic mongrels '56' and '45' that short buses don't work..can we also hold bets on how much petrol DB will waste operating it before changing it, to the nearest 100 litres

The 69 is a very high load service. The 1020 and 1050 dep from Rathcoole is standing room only as is into the city. Let's throw them off at the Red Cow. Any service from the city 1800-2200, it can be difficult to find a seat. Just what is it about Dublin Bus that thinks customers will pay twice to get into or from the city? And not get the Luas to avoid the new crowded 13s..

The 51B/C are two of the best routes I can think of in Dublin. They work faultlessly...and there are no problems with them and high loads all day and night. Reliable, good units operating them, good garage, great drivers, no trouble. Now for the change...

Some Loony wrote:

Implementation will commence in early 2011 on a phased basis which will provide the Ballymun and Clondalkin areas with more direct, high frequency and punctual bus services with improved cross city connections

How is the 69 and 51C being improved and how is it more direct. Furthermore it would appear at 60 minute intervals, the empty 69s will become less frequent than their high load cousins currently operating. And whether the 13 will remain punctual is anyone's guess...

Chaos. Public consultation or otherwise.

CIE

Network Destruct strikes again. Never mind not learning from the 45 and 56; they recently had to extend the 47 to the city because it wasn't working out otherwise. They'll end up re-extending the 68 and 69 into the city too. (They have no plans on "balkanising" the 66 merely because there is an adjacent railway service, remember.)

What exactly is going on with the 13? They removed it from Palmerston Park routing because the route was too long; can't blame that on the Luas because there is but one station adjacent (Cowper). Now it's going all the way to Clondalkin from Ballymun? (This certainly will be one drastic change for the Thomas Street/James Street corridor...going from 51B/C and 78A to 13 and 40. Makes one miss the old 21/A and 78/A/B.)

AlekSmart

The 51B/C are two of the best routes I can think of in Dublin. They work faultlessly...and there are no problems with them and high loads all day and night. Reliable, good units operating them, good garage, great drivers, no trouble. Now for the change...

dfx,Your points re the 51B/C are very pertinent here but I can only point to what the Network Direct "Team" have devised and implimented for the 46A and 145 routes in phase 1.

Essentially two of the most popular and well utilized routes in the system have been reduced to a barely functional shambles at peak-time.

It now appears that a section of senior managerial types (with perhaps some as yet unrevealed Political encouragement) decided to take a very individualistic interpretation of the Deloitte Report`s,largely sensible,recommendations.

This individualism extended to a decision to begin the process with the best preforming,highest useage and most popular routes.

The actual process turned out to be a series of alterations of the most inexplicable and byzantine nature which swiftly(!) obliterated the former strenghts of these routes and added nothing of operational or marketable value whatsoever.

Yet,concidentally,the assorted secondary routes,many of which surely might have benefitted from some considered and coordinated modifications were given an equally bizzarre mixture of "Improvements" many of which flew directly contrary to the Deloitte principles.

It`s equally apparent to most observers,inside and out,that the process is now cast in stone and no amount of Customer Input will alter the "Master Plan".

There is a great deal of uncertainty and even resignation amongst front-line staff,as no amount of Feedback appears to be registering.

Instead,like a great hulking steam-roller,the Network Direct process creeps relentlessly on,like the Titanic heading for that iceberg.

Perhaps the only saving grace now is the ability of Customers along the,as yet,uneffected routes to actually experience the largely negative (from a customer perspective) results of Network Direct as it has been implimented to date.

This,at least, allows them to be forearmed when attempting to "Consult" with the Network Direct "Team" at any of the "Events" which will be held.

Mind you,a conspiracy theorist colleague of mine,is of the opinion that all successful Management Buy-Out`s begin with the original management team running down the performance of their own entity so as to reduce it`s intrinsic value...thereby allowing it to be purchased for a song in any resultant firesale.....all I can say is HMMMmmmmm......

EricPraline

The changes to the 13 route are symptomatic of the bizarre inconsistencies in Dublin Bus route change policies.

On the one hand it seems they'll be cutting cross-city routes like the 11 because they claim that they can't be run efficiently. On the other hand they're extending routes like the 13 to much longer cross-city distances. Which is it?

dazberry

51b 07:20 07:40v
51c 07:10 07:30 07:55v
68 07:50
69 07:45
51 07:05c

Effectively 8 buses to 5, with the castration of the 68s and 69s is just crazy. Quite often in the mid 90s buses would go thru' Inchicore full, or only one or two people would be let on by the driver and the rest would have to wait (not helped by the 68A being a single decker). I really don't miss those days, guess they're coming back

D.

Telchak

starviewadams wrote: »

I also wonder which route the new 13 will take?will it follow the current 51C route and turn left when it gets to Clondalkin Village and head up past Tesco and up Convent Road

Yep, and then I'm assuming it's going to take the 51B route around Bawnogue. The last part makes sense, as the 51C essentially runs fifty metres parallel to the 151 along this stretch.

markpb

*sigh*

My direct bus route to the city centre (27b) has been shortened so it no longer serves my road. The 104 which I use to connect with the 16s will no longer run on my road. The 17a (which they claim has peak frequencies of 10 minutes, actually has two buses per day which are only 10 minutes apart - the rest are 20-30) now takes a longer and more unreliable route to reach me from both ends. The 27x has been cancelled for reasons that I cannot fathom.

As soon as this happens, I'll be seeking a refund on my annual bus ticket and buying a car - my commute was already slower by public transport without making it worse.

med1

well it looks like the city council might as well close the bus lane between the m1 rounabout and northside shopping centre as the buses that currently use the route are been removed no more 27b no more 104 and a 17a that doesent run at all average 30 minute gaps and doeesent serve northside anymore

Xylophonic

Judging by the diagram the 79 will use the Oscar Traynor Road between Dundaniel Road and Northside SC. It also appears as if the 27 will no longer serve Northside SC.

thomasj

Xylophonic wrote: »

Judging by the diagram the 79 will use the Oscar Traynor Road between Dundaniel Road and Northside SC. It also appears as if the 27 will no longer serve Northside SC.

Or Clare hall for that matter!